us social security survivor benefit for thai wife

[ubonjoe]

Neversure is correct, your Thai wife must live in the US for 5 years in order to collect the spouse benefit. You can apply and get a SS (tax id) number for her via mail. There is an application that you can download online at the SS website, and they will give you the address in Texas to send it to. You must include her passport or a certified copy of it. I was able to accomplish this without issue, and I claim her on my US tax return as a spouse and get the deduction. She has never been to the US. If you have a baby together, the baby can be declared a US citizen immediately, and once you are eligible for SS, your baby can also collect a benefit until she is 18 or 24, depending on if she is attending school full time.

That is a a individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN) not a SSN that she has by applying to the IRS in Austin.

Info here: http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Individual-Taxpayer-Identification-Number-(ITIN)

Edited September 15, 2013 by ubonjoe

[yankee99]

Neversure is correct, your Thai wife must live in the US for 5 years in order to collect the spouse benefit. You can apply and get a SS (tax id) number for her via mail. There is an application that you can download online at the SS website, and they will give you the address in Texas to send it to. You must include her passport or a certified copy of it. I was able to accomplish this without issue, and I claim her on my US tax return as a spouse and get the deduction. She has never been to the US. If you have a baby together, the baby can be declared a US citizen immediately, and once you are eligible for SS, your baby can also collect a benefit until she is 18 or 24, depending on if she is attending school full time.

Please correct me if i am wrong? If you hit 62 (still alive) and collect and your baby is under 18 i think your children are able to get benefits...until they turn 18

[ubonjoe]

It is called survivor benefits. Meaning you are gone. A child that is a citizen is eligible until they reach 18 or 19 if going to school and not married there is no minimum.

Benefits can be paid no matter your age upon death if you have reached the points required to receive them.

Info: http://www.socialsecurity.gov/survivorplan/onyourown4.htm

[moe666]

First, I hope you know that there is no minimum that social security will pay. The amount you receive is based on a formula figured from the average of what you paid in for the last 20 years before you are eligible.

Also, if you take SS at age 62 you get only about 75% of what you would get if you waited until you are 67. The maximum one can collect is about $US2,500 per month but you'd have to pay in the maximum for each of the last 20 years. The maximum, I think, is based on you being taxed on about $100k earning per year. Obviously the more you earn, the bigger your tax.

So by being in Thailand, unless you are paying a lot into your SS account each year, you might wind up getting very little monthly when the time comes. I get the maximum, but most people I know get less and some far less.

Next, someone may correct me, but I thought your wife had to live in the US for 5 consecutive years to be eligible to collect your SS. Of that I'm not at all sure so someone else will chime in.

I believe you can ask SS online for a statement and have them mail you your SS status, and how much you would draw if you retired today at 62. But I don't know if you will pay any more in for the rest of your last 20 years.

You might consider returning to the US now and making as much money as you can to build up your SS income, and to get your wife eligible for it. ??

I do not believe that is the question he asked, he wants to know about setting his wife up with a SS number so she can collect some benefits. I believe you need to go back to the states set up residency and jump thru the hoops and apply for her number.

[moe666]

Neversure is correct, your Thai wife must live in the US for 5 years in order to collect the spouse benefit. You can apply and get a SS (tax id) number for her via mail. There is an application that you can download online at the SS website, and they will give you the address in Texas to send it to. You must include her passport or a certified copy of it. I was able to accomplish this without issue, and I claim her on my US tax return as a spouse and get the deduction. She has never been to the US. If you have a baby together, the baby can be declared a US citizen immediately, and once you are eligible for SS, your baby can also collect a benefit until she is 18 or 24, depending on if she is attending school full time.

That is a a individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN) not a SSN that she has by applying to the IRS in Austin.

Info here: http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Individual-Taxpayer-Identification-Number-(ITIN)

ITN doesn't give the holder ant rights to social security benefits.

[moe666]

Neversure is correct, your Thai wife must live in the US for 5 years in order to collect the spouse benefit. You can apply and get a SS (tax id) number for her via mail. There is an application that you can download online at the SS website, and they will give you the address in Texas to send it to. You must include her passport or a certified copy of it. I was able to accomplish this without issue, and I claim her on my US tax return as a spouse and get the deduction. She has never been to the US. If you have a baby together, the baby can be declared a US citizen immediately, and once you are eligible for SS, your baby can also collect a benefit until she is 18 or 24, depending on if she is attending school full time.

That is a a individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN) not a SSN that she has by applying to the IRS in Austin.

Info here: http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Individual-Taxpayer-Identification-Number-(ITIN)

ITN doesn't give the holder ant rights to social security benefits.

[Michael8511]

Option Two: Direct Deposit to a Special Account at Bangkok Bank

If you do not have a U.S. bank account, you can still get Direct Deposit in Thailand. Bangkok Bank will accept U.S. government Direct Deposit, but you must set up a special account that has certain restrictions to safeguard your money. Heres how it works:

1. Go to a Bangkok Bank branch and ask to open a Direct Deposit Account. You will need:

your passport

your Social Security card

blank Form SF-1199; you can get this form online from the U.S. Treasury at:

http://www.fms.treas.gov/eft/1199a.pdf

a small amount of money to open the account

Be sure to tell bank staff that the account will be for receiving a U.S. government pension only. Bank staff will help you fill out the necessary forms, including an application for the banks Direct Deposit service. Please read the applications terms and conditions carefully. Be sure to note the fees and the restrictions on the account.

2. It might take several months for Direct Deposit to begin. During that time, you will continue to receive your check by whatever method you use currently.

3. Once Direct Deposit begins, Bangkok Bank charges a transaction fee for each Direct Deposit. Your money will be available in Thai baht at any Bangkok Bank branch, but you must go in person with your bank book and passport. You cannot use an ATM card to withdraw funds from these special accounts, nor set up automatic transfers or payments from these special accounts. However, when you go to the bank, you can transfer money to a different account that does allow ATM use.

[rotary]

Gents, RATISMA is just trying to help with realistic info, I can understand why instead of placing a large amount of info here that might not be useful he ask for a PM. This is pretty much "person specific" info. As far a paying maximum into social security and getting maximum back I bet it is pretty rare to see someone who payed the very maximum over a complete career of 20 plus years.

All in all I still believe the SS scheme is a PONZI scheme that the US govt puts people in prison for doing but runs freely them selves.

[frankybaby43]

take 75% at 62 because you do not know how long you will live

spouse must live 5 years in US to get survivor benefits but children get benefits until they reach 18

best to call the US embassy in Manila , Asia's main social security office

they will process your application and it can be done online

[MerrillHolt]

There is a difference between being a citizen and not for receiving benefits outside the US. Here is the link to the SSA website where there is a series of questions that let you determine when benefits are paid.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/international/payments_outsideUS.html

Basically if you want your Thai wife to receive survivor benefits in Thailand, she needs to be a US Citizen. She can do this is 5 (or sometimes 3) years after getting a green card. My wife got her citizenship in 3 years when she came to the US on a fiancee visa. Any children who are under 18 get their citizenship when their mother gets hers.

The survivor benefits are available to any children under 18 or 19 if in high school. Their mother would also get benefits until the last child is 16. After that benefits are gone until she would reach retirement age.

The SSA website is actually quite good.

Hope this helps.

[NCC1701A]

Neversure is correct, your Thai wife must live in the US for 5 years in order to collect the spouse benefit. You can apply and get a SS (tax id) number for her via mail. There is an application that you can download online at the SS website, and they will give you the address in Texas to send it to. You must include her passport or a certified copy of it. I was able to accomplish this without issue, and I claim her on my US tax return as a spouse and get the deduction. She has never been to the US. If you have a baby together, the baby can be declared a US citizen immediately, and once you are eligible for SS, your baby can also collect a benefit until she is 18 or 24, depending on if she is attending school full time.

and in doing so, is she now subject to US tax law for the rest of her life?

[frankybaby43]

SSS office for Asia is at the Manila embassy. they can answer all questions, process claims online etc

just call them

5 years US residency required to get survivor I believe but children under 18 can get as soon as one reaches 62 if claim is made at that age. I claimed at 62 because no one knows how long one will live

[ubonjoe]

Option Two: Direct Deposit to a Special Account at Bangkok Bank

If you do not have a U.S. bank account, you can still get Direct Deposit in Thailand. Bangkok Bank will accept U.S. government Direct Deposit, but you must set up a special account that has certain restrictions to safeguard your money. Heres how it works:

1. Go to a Bangkok Bank branch and ask to open a Direct Deposit Account. You will need:

your passport

your Social Security card

blank Form SF-1199; you can get this form online from the U.S. Treasury at:

http://www.fms.treas.gov/eft/1199a.pdf

a small amount of money to open the account

Be sure to tell bank staff that the account will be for receiving a U.S. government pension only. Bank staff will help you fill out the necessary forms, including an application for the banks Direct Deposit service. Please read the applications terms and conditions carefully. Be sure to note the fees and the restrictions on the account.

2. It might take several months for Direct Deposit to begin. During that time, you will continue to receive your check by whatever method you use currently.

3. Once Direct Deposit begins, Bangkok Bank charges a transaction fee for each Direct Deposit. Your money will be available in Thai baht at any Bangkok Bank branch, but you must go in person with your bank book and passport. You cannot use an ATM card to withdraw funds from these special accounts, nor set up automatic transfers or payments from these special accounts. However, when you go to the bank, you can transfer money to a different account that does allow ATM use.

1. I posted a link to Bangkok banks webpage earlier that has info about setting up account. Their link for SF1199 does not work.

2. It takes a month or less for change or to get it started dependent on what date of the month you do it. Bangkok banks staff at main office send SF1199 to Manila by email once they get it.

Checks are no longer done only direct deposit or SSA debit card since April of this year.

3. Fees for NY in screenshot.

Here it is .25% with 200 baht minimum up to 500 baht maximum.

Edited September 15, 2013 by ubonjoe

[willyumiii]

I just turned 60 and have been living in Thailand for almost 2 years now with my wife and 5 year old child. My daughter was born in the U.S. while my wife lived there with me, as a permanent resident for 6 yeqrs.

I have been told there is additional SS money paid if you have a dependent child when you file to collect. My daughter is a U<S, citizen and will be 7 years old when I turn 62.

Does anyone know about this? can you give me any information or advise?

Thanks in advance.

[jjablonsky]

stevehaigh
Subject us social security survivor benefit for Thai wife

Started by stevehaigh, Yesterday, 10:50

On
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/667707-us-social-security-survivor-benefit-for-thai-wife/?utm_source=newsletter-20130915-0828&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured

Most of the answers on the forum were incorrect.
Actually due to many international agreements your Thai wife is entitled to either a lump sum death benefit or monthly payment death benefits. Whether she was ever in the US or not. As long as your marriage is both legal and registered with the US Consulate. I know of two Thai woman never having been in the US receiving benefits. One is getting monthly death benefits and the other's children receive benefits as he *the American" was their father. It is certainly most helpful if you make arrangements for this before your demise or if she knows someone in the US that will help her apply and receive the benefits.

See here on the US consulate page

http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service/u.s.-federal-benefit-information.html

You may also contact the SSA in the US directly for information on how to ensure your wife gets the benefits she is entitled to.

Jeff

[ubonjoe]

Neversure is correct, your Thai wife must live in the US for 5 years in order to collect the spouse benefit.  You can apply and get a SS (tax id) number for her via mail.  There is an application that you can download online at the SS website, and they will give you the address in Texas to send it to.  You must include her passport or a certified copy of it.  I was able to accomplish this without issue, and I claim her on my US tax return as a spouse and get the deduction.  She has never been to the US.  If you have a baby together, the baby can be declared a US citizen immediately, and once you are eligible for SS, your baby can also collect a benefit until she is 18 or 24, depending on if she is attending school full time.

and in doing so,  is she now subject to US tax law for the rest of her life?

In order to get a SSN would require permanent residency to get and that does obligate one to pay taxes.

Posters wife got a ITIN which carries no obligation to pay taxes. See my earlier reply.

[ubonjoe]

take 75% at 62 because you do not know how long you will live

spouse must live 5 years in US  to get survivor benefits but children  get benefits until they reach 18

best to call the US embassy in Manila , Asia's main social security office

they will process your application and it can be done online

Online filling can only be done if you are in the states. You cannot do anything on line if you file here or use an address here.

[slipperylobster]

Why are they not sending you an annual statement of what your entitlements should be, when you are elgible. Check with them and see if they have a current address for you. That will explain everything. I have been getting mine quite regularly. There is a point system and explanations/sources for answers. I worked 23 years (now retired military). Although I have not worked in the past 15 years...because of a disability...I am scheduled to receive 1500 dollars per month if I collect at 62. Easy Peasy.....if you get that statement

[Ratsima]

I have received dozens of PMs asking for Social Security advice. I will answer them all, but it will take a few days.

If you don't hear from me by Wednesday, please send a gentle reminder.

[ubonjoe]

stevehaigh

Subject us social security survivor benefit for Thai wife

Started by stevehaigh, Yesterday, 10:50

On

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/667707-us-social-security-survivor-benefit-for-thai-wife/?utm_source=newsletter-20130915-0828&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured

Most of the answers on the forum were incorrect.

Actually due to many international agreements your Thai wife is entitled to either a lump sum death benefit or monthly payment death benefits. Whether she was ever in the US or not. As long as your marriage is both legal and registered with the US Consulate. I know of two Thai woman never having been in the US receiving benefits. One is getting monthly death benefits and the other's children receive benefits as he *the American" was their father. It is certainly most helpful if you make arrangements for this before your demise or if she knows someone in the US that will help her apply and receive the benefits.

See here on the US consulate page

http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service/u.s.-federal-benefit-information.html

You may also contact the SSA in the US directly for information on how to ensure your wife gets the benefits she is entitled to.

Jeff

Some or your info is also incorrect. There is no treaty with Thailand that will help with getting survivor benefits for a Thai wife.

Download this SSA pamphlet. http://ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf

Edited September 15, 2013 by ubonjoe

[willyumiii]

My wife and I were mariried in Thailand in 2002. The marriage was registered in Thailand, but not in the U.S..

We did obtain a marriage visa to the US for my wife in 2004. We lived in the US for 6 years and had a child there.

She has a SS #, worked int he US, paid SS while there and we always filed joint tax returns.

Is it still necessary to register the marriage with the US consulate or does the marriage visa, and other aformnentioned documentation of our marriage inthe US sufice?

stevehaigh
Subject us social security survivor benefit for Thai wife

Started by stevehaigh, Yesterday, 10:50

On
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/667707-us-social-security-survivor-benefit-for-thai-wife/?utm_source=newsletter-20130915-0828&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured

Most of the answers on the forum were incorrect.
Actually due to many international agreements your Thai wife is entitled to either a lump sum death benefit or monthly payment death benefits. Whether she was ever in the US or not. As long as your marriage is both legal and registered with the US Consulate. I know of two Thai woman never having been in the US receiving benefits. One is getting monthly death benefits and the other's children receive benefits as he *the American" was their father. It is certainly most helpful if you make arrangements for this before your demise or if she knows someone in the US that will help her apply and receive the benefits.

See here on the US consulate page

http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service/u.s.-federal-benefit-information.html

You may also contact the SSA in the US directly for information on how to ensure your wife gets the benefits she is entitled to.

Jeff

[slipperylobster]

There is a difference between being a citizen and not for receiving benefits outside the US. Here is the link to the SSA website where there is a series of questions that let you determine when benefits are paid.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/international/payments_outsideUS.html

Basically if you want your Thai wife to receive survivor benefits in Thailand, she needs to be a US Citizen. She can do this is 5 (or sometimes 3) years after getting a green card. My wife got her citizenship in 3 years when she came to the US on a fiancee visa. Any children who are under 18 get their citizenship when their mother gets hers.

The survivor benefits are available to any children under 18 or 19 if in high school. Their mother would also get benefits until the last child is 16. After that benefits are gone until she would reach retirement age.

The SSA website is actually quite good.

Hope this helps.

Straight and simple...use the government web sites. I agree.

[Pib]

Why are they not sending you an annual statement of what your entitlements should be, when you are elgible. Check with them and see if they have a current address for you. That will explain everything. I have been getting mine quite regularly. There is a point system and explanations/sources for answers. I worked 23 years (now retired military). Although I have not worked in the past 15 years...because of a disability...I am scheduled to receive 1500 dollars per month if I collect at 62. Easy Peasy.....if you get that statement

The SSA stopped mailing those yearly statements about 2 years ago. To get a statement now you register for an online account and view / print the statement online.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-l9500)

[The Usual Suspect]

I recently retired and I thought my wife should be entitled to survivors benefits. I thought that because I was an American citizen and we were legally married it would be a given. I was wrong. Unless my wife maintains permanent resident status (i.e. lives in the U.S.) with a green card and s.s. number, she is not covered by survivors benefits. There may be some "fine print" somewhere that says something different, but I haven't seen it.

Even though she has all of the above items, we decided we were far better off (for a myriad of reasons) to live in Thailand instead of the U.S.. She is going to give up her P.R. status and green card in October. I decided instead that I am going to set up a "survivors" savings account for her and pay into it each month when I get my S.S. check. She will be covered by her government pension here in Thailand as well, so hopefully, she will do o.k. Seriously, I think you should take the previous poster, Ratsima up on the offer of assistance in sorting out your situation. 30 years with the S.S. Department is hard to beat!

[mrwebb8825]

Straight from the "horses mouth" which is what I advise you to do:

Dear Mr. Webb,

For the widow who will be eligible for Social Security Benefit, if she is Thai the requirement are;

- She has to be at least 60 years old.

- She must have 5 years residency in the US.

She is also eligible for lump sum death payment which is onetime payment. The amount is $255. She can apply this benefit at any age and no residency requirement.

If she would like to apply the benefit, please have her contact US Embassy for the process. Our contact number is 662 205 4049.

Regards,

ACS

and on being able to collect benefits:

Dear Mr. Webb,

Normally for people who are eligible for retirement benefit, they should have 40 quarters collected while they are working.

If you would like to check whether you have reached 40 quarters and are entitled to Social Security Benefit, please send an inquiry to [email protected].

Please release your name and SSN to them.

Regards,

American Citizen Services

and:

Dear Mr. Webb,

The rumor that is circulating there is not true. Even though you have not filed for taxes for the last 8 years, you can still receive retirement benefits at age 62.

Sincerely,

ARMANDO C. ARAGON, JR.
Claims Examiner
SSA Manila
American Embassy
1201 Roxas Boulevard, Ermita
0930 Manila, Philippines
Telephone: (632) 301-2596
Fax: (632) 708-9714

[ubonjoe]

Glitch

Edited September 15, 2013 by ubonjoe

[ubonjoe]

My wife and I were mariried in Thailand in 2002. The marriage was registered in Thailand, but not in the U.S..

 

We did obtain a marriage visa to the US for my wife in 2004.  We lived in the US for 6 years and had a child there.

 

She has a SS #, worked int he US, paid SS while there and we always filed joint tax returns.

 

Is it still necessary to register the marriage with the US consulate or does the marriage visa, and other aformnentioned documentation of our marriage inthe US sufice?

Your wife qualifies because of her residency. No need to do anything.

US embassy does not register marriages.

[ubonjoe]

I recently retired and I thought my wife should be entitled to survivors benefits. I thought that because I was an American citizen and we were legally married it would be a given. I was wrong. Unless my wife maintains permanent resident status (i.e. lives in the U.S.) with a green card and s.s. number, she is not covered by survivors benefits. There may be some "fine print" somewhere that says something different, but I haven't seen it.

Even though she has all of the above items, we decided we were far better off (for a myriad of reasons) to live in Thailand instead of the U.S.. She is going to give up her P.R. status and green card in October. I decided instead that I am going to set up a "survivors" savings account for her and pay into it each month when I get my S.S. check. She will be covered by her government pension here in Thailand as well, so hopefully, she will do o.k. Seriously,  I think you should take the previous poster, Ratsima up on the offer of assistance in sorting out your situation. 30 years with the S.S. Department is hard to beat! 

How many total years was she in the US. Five years is enough she does not have stay there forever or maintain residency.

[SeabagsFull]

If you are a veteran, your wife would be eligible for VA survivors benefits of about $800.00 a month. In Baht that comes to almost 24,000 Baht a month which would be enough for her to live on. However, this is means tested and she cannot work or remarry. Check with the VFW post closest to where you live.

Moradave #23, where did you get this information?

I am a veteran, & the only Survivor's Benefits I know of is a sort of relatively inexpensive insurance program tied to retirement & must be chosen within a year (?) of separation from the service.

Would be really nice if you've discovered another benefit here that I didn't know about.

[The Usual Suspect]

I recently retired and I thought my wife should be entitled to survivors benefits. I thought that because I was an American citizen and we were legally married it would be a given. I was wrong. Unless my wife maintains permanent resident status (i.e. lives in the U.S.) with a green card and s.s. number, she is not covered by survivors benefits. There may be some "fine print" somewhere that says something different, but I haven't seen it.

Even though she has all of the above items, we decided we were far better off (for a myriad of reasons) to live in Thailand instead of the U.S.. She is going to give up her P.R. status and green card in October. I decided instead that I am going to set up a "survivors" savings account for her and pay into it each month when I get my S.S. check. She will be covered by her government pension here in Thailand as well, so hopefully, she will do o.k. Seriously, I think you should take the previous poster, Ratsima up on the offer of assistance in sorting out your situation. 30 years with the S.S. Department is hard to beat!

How many total years was she in the US. Five years is enough she does not have stay there forever or maintain residency.

We were only in the states for about a month and that was all she needed to make up her mind about living in the U.S. My wife has a really good government job in Thailand with free medical care (for me also), and a pension etc. and soon she will be getting transferred very close to our home. She would have to trade all that for a crappy minimum wage job with no benefits whatsoever in the states, coupled with the outrageous cost of living. She's a real practical gal, and when she started doing the math, it just didn't add up to much. It's really kind of funny, cause most Thai's would give their first born to have a green card and my wife is like, hmmm.....no thanks.