problems going from Multiple-entry ED visa to Tourist Visa w/ overstayed children?

[Isaanman]

I have got a situation here that is too complicated for me to discern all of the issues. I (US farang) returned to Thailand with my wife (US farang) and two kids (6 and 8 yrs old) last year. My wife and I both obtained single entry, 90-day ED visas with the Thai Consulate in the US, having received all of the proper docs from our langauge school in Thailand. Our kids came over here w/ single entry, 90-day Non immigrant-O visas. After 3 months, our Thai school filed for a 1-year extension for my wife and me. We have only had to report to the local imiigration office every 90-days and do not pay anything.

When we initially submitted our paperwork for the extensions, the immigration officer in charge informed us that we did not need to get an extension for our kids, as they were under 14 years old. Concerned about getting hit with a HUGE overstay fine for both kids at the end of 4 years, we decided to confirm this w/ others and our Thai language school principal. She called immigration and they told her the same thing. If we did want to get our kids extensions, they would have to enroll in the school at the tune of about 1,000 USD per kid per year! Beyond a shadow of the doubt, the Thai immigration officer seemed to be pushing us to just let them overstay, as he even appeared to get a little irritated with us--with a look of "you foolish farang . . . why would you want to pay more to have your kids stay in the country?!" So, for better or worse, we opted against enrolling them in school and decided to just let our kids overstay.

Since then, a situation has unexpectedly arisen back in the US, which necessitates our moving back there soon. There is a problem. We just deducted a ton of money on our US taxes for moving expenses to the country. Taking this deduction requires me to be in country for 78 weeks. My 1-year extension ends on Nov. 3, 2013. Local immigration told me that my wife and I could pay to change our single-entry visas into double entry visas. As far as I understand everything, if we do a border run on Nov. 2, we can obtain an additional 90-days stay in the kingdom; we used to do this regularly many years ago. However, this lands us 6 days short of fullfilling the 78-week requirement. At the end of this 90-day visa, can my wife and I make another border run and return with a tourist visas? For both of these border runs (should I take the latter), should I leave my kids here in Thailand with a friend and then just take them with us to the airport and pray that they will do what they typically have done and allow the kids to get away with the overstay? [in the meantime, I am going to find out the actual law on record with our Thai lawyer neighbor about the kids' overstay. I will tell everyone what he says.] If we do not take this last visa run, do you think we are going to run into huge problems with Thai immigration upon departure, if my wife and I have overstayed our extensio.n by only six days, but our kids have done so for 1 1/2 years? Would it be better to take our kids out with us on the last border run, so that they can leave the country upon our final departure with tourist visas also (i.e. is it better to have the overstay matter of the kids come to light at a border crossing immigration outpost or at the airport)? Lastly, will we have any problems with getting the tourist extension from the Malaysia crossing? Or, will it be better to travel out of country to Laos to obtain it? How long would the tourist visa last? Thanks a ton, everyone, for your insights into these matters.

[TerryLH]

Your children won't be charged for overstay.

No law says that, as far as I know, but it's been an immigration policy for many years.

For a tourist visa, you will have to go to a Thai consulate. That will require an over night stay in Laos or Malaysia. Cambodia is a several days process.

A tourist visa is good for 60 days and can be extended at an immigration office for 30 days.

A border crossing and return will get you a visa exempt entry of 15 days. 30 days if you return by air.

You can get 7 days from immigration, often requiring you show a flight out of the country within those 7 days.

[lopburi3]

Are you sure you obtained one year extensions of stay for language study? That is very unusual as normally it is only 90 days at a time. Check your passports and make sure what your current permitted to stay stamp says. You can not obtain a new 90 day stay with a border run from an extension of stay - you must either get a new extension of stay with school paperwork/contract or leave for a new visa entry - there is no issue obtaining a tourist visa if needed. The children are on overstay and this will be marked in there passport on exit but there will not be any fine involved.

[Isaanman]

Are you sure you obtained one year extensions of stay for language study? That is very unusual as normally it is only 90 days at a time. Check your passports and make sure what your current permitted to stay stamp says. You can not obtain a new 90 day stay with a border run from an extension of stay - you must either get a new extension of stay with school paperwork/contract or leave for a new visa entry - there is no issue obtaining a tourist visa if needed. The children are on overstay and this will be marked in there passport on exit but there will not be any fine involved.

The stamp in my passport from local immigration (written in English) says, "Application of stay is permitted up to ____________. Applicant must leave the Kingdom within the dates specified . . ." They stamped 3 Nov. 2013 there, as my initial Non-Immigrant ED visa expired on 4 Nov 2012. Thus, I assumed this was/is a 1-year extension of stay, even though I have to report to immigration every 90-days to confirm my current residence in the city. If not, what is it?

If I am reading you guys correctly, I cannot obtain a 90-day extension by merely leaving and returning before Nov. 4th like I could with a current, mult-entry visa, correct? So, unless I want to have all of this paper work drawn up and unload another $2,000, I will need to make a (tourist) visa run to Malaysia or Laos. In the former, is it Kuala Lampur? I was not aware that there was a Thai consulate in Savannaket, Laos. Malaysia is closer, but we are planning a trip to visit old friends in Isaan. Which consulate do you think would be easier to obtain the 60-day tourist visa? Or, does it really matter?

And, once I have obtained this tourist visa, I should not have any problem getting another 30-day extension at our local immigration, correct? How about another 15-day extension for a subsequent border run or a 60-day extension (should we choose to make another trip back to a consulate in Laos or Malaysia for an additional visa) after the 30-day extension from immigration? I only remember from many years ago, that immigration was trying to crack down on the endless cycle of border runs for folks seeking repeated tourist visas; I just don't want to get stuck outside the country with my house, belongings, car, and kids still in Thailand! Or, I guess we could just stay in KL for over a week, so that we will meet the 78-week requirement without having to make a border run after the 30-day extension from immigration. That might be easier! Thanks again.

[lopburi3]

You can not obtain a new 90 day entry - you can obtain a single and probably a two entry tourist visa from either Vientiane or Savannakhet Consulates. And you should not have any trouble getting a 30 day extension (but if 2 entry watch dates as visa expires 3 months from date of issue so second entry needs to be made on or before that date).

[ubonjoe]

Any location would be the same (except Cambodia) for a single entry visa.

You can get a 2 entry in Vientiane or Savannakhet. A 2 entry would give you more flexibility and only costs 1000 baht more.

No problem to get 30 day extension at any immigration office.

[Phuket electrician]

I read you post and wish to share my personal experience.

Quite hot at the Thai border concerning ED visas. Immigration officers have the power to call the school to see if you have attended and if so, when was the last date you were there. if, the school tells them they haven't seen you since such and such date your visa will be null and void - the max overstay is B20,000 or a custodial sentence.

The point is not to expose yourself to attention from Thai immigration. They have discretionary powers, and as such enforcement of the law may appear to be inconsistent.

It is of utmost importance to be aware of immigration law. It can be a lottery if you are 'in the wrong'

The farang advisers incumbent at immigration offices are knowledgeable. Make sure you fully understand your immigration status.

[richard10365]

Not sure I understand. Why are you doing border runs if you have a non-immigrant visa? You should only be doing visa extensions and 90 day reports.

The 90 day report and the ED visa are two different responsibilities that have to be handled differently. This is how I understand the process.

• Initially, the schools issue a 90 day ED visa.
• About a week before the expiration date of the ED visa, you go to your nearest immigration office to extend your visa for 9 more months. Your school should give you the paperwork. Immigration should make you do a 90 day report at the same time.
• Every 90 days after that, you report to immigration for a 90 day report.
  • The 90 day reporting continues until you leave the country.
  • When you return to Thailand, the 90 day reporting starts again from the date you enter Thailand.
• At the end of the 9 month extension, using the correct documents given to you by your school, go to immigration to extend your visa. Immigration will extend it for 1 year.
• This process will continue as long as you study at this school.
• If for whatever reason you decided to change schools, you need to change your visa.

[ubonjoe]

I read you post and wish to share my personal experience.

Quite hot at the Thai border concerning ED visas. Immigration officers have the power to call the school to see if you have attended and if so, when was the last date you were there.  if, the school tells them they haven't seen you since such and such date your visa will be null and void - the max overstay is B20,000 or a custodial sentence.

The point is not to expose yourself to attention from Thai immigration.  They have discretionary powers, and as such enforcement of the law may appear to be inconsistent.

It is of utmost importance to be aware of immigration law. It can be a lottery if you are 'in the wrong'

The farang advisers incumbent at immigration offices are knowledgeable. Make sure you fully understand your immigration status.

 

I think you are confusing extensions of stay and visas. Immigration can and

does question extensions for study at Thai language schools.

People entering at a border crossing with a ED visa would never be questioned.

There is no custodial sentence for overstay. A person gets credit of 200 baht per day towards the overstay fine until it is paid.

[Isaanman]

". . . You can obtain a single and probably a two entry tourist visa from either Vientiane or Savannakhet Consulates. And you should not have any trouble getting a 30 day extension (but if 2 entry watch dates as visa expires 3 months from date of issue so second entry needs to be made on or before that date)."

Are you saying that I should be able to get a double entry, 90-day tourist Visa from these Lao Consulates, with the prospect of an additional 30-day extension at my local immigration? I am assuming that I should go to my local immigration office a few days in advance to ensure that the latter can be done. That would work out great and give me sufficient time to do everything and easily meet the 78-week requirement.

". . . Quite hot at the Thai border concerning ED visas. Immigration officers have the power to call the school to see if you have attended and if so, when was the last date you were there. if, the school tells them they haven't seen you since such and such date your visa will be null and void - the max overstay is B20,000 or a custodial sentence.

The point is not to expose yourself to attention from Thai immigration. They have discretionary powers, and as such enforcement of the law may appear to be inconsistent. . . ."

This reply concerns me a little bit. We did everything above board with our language school and attended regularly. However, as our Thai was too far advanced to sit in the classes with others for 200 hours, we received 100 hours of private instruction, enabling us to finish the course in 1/2 the time. This is school policy, however. We were assured before we moved over here that we would have no problems with it (which has been the case). We just were not expecting to have to turn around so quickly to move back to the US. So, could this pose a problem, should Thai immigration call our school to inquire about our recent attendance; we have not studied there since mid-April? Also, there is no way to avoid bringing attention to my kids overstay issue. This is why I was asking earlier if I should avoid making this visa run across the border to an adjacent country with my children and just wait and have the whole matter of the overstay come up at the last minute before our departure out of the Suvarnabhumi Airport.

Also, for the record, we received a 1-year extension of stay (or whatever you want to call it) from our local immigration at the request of our Thai language school--not merely 9-months, after our initial 3-months ED visa from the US expired. So, apart from the length of time being 1-year (not 9-months), everything you said, Richard, was/is true about our current situation. We could have (and maybe will upon return in the future) renewed this situation for 8 years! We just have to return back to the US for various unexpected, but significant reasons.

Lastly, does anyone know if I could get the same 90-day, double entry visa from Kuala Lampur, Singapore, or another neighboring country?

[Mario2008]

A tourist visa is 60 days, but can be extended by 30 days at immigration.

[ubonjoe]

". . . You can obtain a single and probably a two entry tourist visa from either Vientiane or Savannakhet Consulates. And you should not have any trouble getting a 30 day extension (but if 2 entry watch dates as visa expires 3 months from date of issue so second entry needs to be made on or before that date)."

Are you saying that I should be able to get a double entry, 90-day tourist Visa from these Lao Consulates, with the prospect of an additional 30-day extension at my local immigration? I am assuming that I should go to my local immigration office a few days in advance to ensure that the latter can be done. That would work out great and give me sufficient time to do everything and easily meet the 78-week requirement.

". . . Quite hot at the Thai border concerning ED visas. Immigration officers have the power to call the school to see if you have attended and if so, when was the last date you were there. if, the school tells them they haven't seen you since such and such date your visa will be null and void - the max overstay is B20,000 or a custodial sentence. The point is not to expose yourself to attention from Thai immigration. They have discretionary powers, and as such enforcement of the law may appear to be inconsistent. . . ."

This reply concerns me a little bit. We did everything above board with our language school and attended regularly. However, as our Thai was too far advanced to sit in the classes with others for 200 hours, we received 100 hours of private instruction, enabling us to finish the course in 1/2 the time. This is school policy, however. We were assured before we moved over here that we would have no problems with it (which has been the case). We just were not expecting to have to turn around so quickly to move back to the US. So, could this pose a problem, should Thai immigration call our school to inquire about our recent attendance; we have not studied there since mid-April? Also, there is no way to avoid bringing attention to my kids overstay issue. This is why I was asking earlier if I should avoid making this visa run across the border to an adjacent country with my children and just wait and have the whole matter of the overstay come up at the last minute before our departure out of the Suvarnabhumi Airport. Also, for the record, we received a 1-year extension of stay (or whatever you want to call it) from our local immigration at the request of our Thai language school--not merely 9-months, after our initial 3-months ED visa from the US expired. So, apart from the length of time being 1-year (not 9-months), everything you said, Richard, was/is true about our current situation. We could have (and maybe will upon return in the future) renewed this situation for 8 years! We just have to return back to the US for various unexpected, but significant reasons. Lastly, does anyone know if I could get the same 90-day, double entry visa from Kuala Lampur, Singapore, or another neighboring country?

Read my previous post.That post was mostly nonsense. You will not be bothered at the border when you leave.Tourist visas are 60 days not 90. You can easily get the 30 day extension.Laos is the only nearby location issuing two entry visa. Edited September 20, 2013 by ubonjoe

[Isaanman]

I have one last question related to all this that could still use some clarification. It is possible that we might not have to go back to the US as soon as we thought we might have to go after all. The Thai principal at my Thai language school here says that we must re-submit all of the paperwork to get another 1-year extension to study here at the school 1 month before our last 1-year extension expires; they used to only require two weeks. The 1-month mark is this coming Thursday! If we left the country and came back to Thailand with a 2-month tourist visa, our school says that they can give me a new 1-year visa; but, it would be like starting the entire process over.

My question is this: in this case, would I have to make visa runs to Malaysia every 90-days with this arrangement, as I did not initially get a 3-month ED visa to enter the country and, then, merely have it extended 1 year? Or, could I come back in with the tourist visa and still get a 1-year visa with the school that would only require me to report here locally to immigration every 90-days--our current situation and the one we would have if we extend our stay again this Thursday? If I cannot do the latter, is there somewhere close by (e.g. Laos, Malysia, Singapore, ???) that I could get a 3-month ED visa to re-enter Thailand and, then, obtain the 1-year extension with local reporting only, even if we end up having to return to the US before the 1-year period is up? Does anyone know how much a single-entry, non-immigrant ED visa would cost from these places?

". . . there is no issue obtaining a tourist visa if needed"

And just for clarification: if I leave the country and come back in with a 60-day tourist visa, could I leave the country again after that 60-day visa and obtain a second 60-day tourist visa? If I did the latter, should I go to a different border crossing? I just want to know all of my options, as I am not sure when I will have to return to the US and don't want to spend a fortune needlessly!

Thanks again for everyone's help.

[lopburi3]

Border crossing would not matter with getting a new tourist visa - normally there is no issue with them until at least a handful in passport. If you mean getting a new visa exempt after a visa entry expect that would also be OK and not all border crossings even care.

[ubonjoe]

You could get a single entry non-ed visa with paperwork from at any nearby embassy or consulate that would cost 2000 baht.

It is normally not a problem to get a 2nd tourist visa from the same embassy or consulate.

[sometimewoodworker]

You can not obtain a new 90 day entry - you can obtain a single and probably a two entry tourist visa from either Vientiane or Savannakhet Consulates. And you should not have any trouble getting a 30 day extension (but if 2 entry watch dates as visa expires 3 months from date of issue so second entry needs to be made on or before that date).

My last 2 double entry tourist visas were valid for 6 months from the issue date. "Issue date 13 Feb 2013 enter before 12 Aug. 2013"

All the single entry visas were valid for 3 months.

"- Validity of single entry tourist visa is three(3) months and double / triple entry tourist visa is six(6) months."

Thai embassy website Tokyo.

Edited September 30, 2013 by sometimewoodworker

[ubonjoe]

You can not obtain a new 90 day entry - you can obtain a single and probably a two entry tourist visa from either Vientiane or Savannakhet Consulates.  And you should not have any trouble getting a 30 day extension (but if 2 entry watch dates as visa expires 3 months from date of issue so second entry needs to be made on or before that date).

My last 2 double entry tourist visas were valid for 6 months from the issue date. "Issue date 13 Feb 2013 enter before 12 Aug. 2013"

All the single entry visas were valid for 3 months.

You did not get your visas in Laos. They only issue them with a 3 month validity.

[Isaanman]

My last 2 double entry tourist visas were valid for 6 months from the issue date. "Issue date 13 Feb 2013 enter before 12 Aug. 2013"

All the single entry visas were valid for 3 months.

"- Validity of single entry tourist visa is three(3) months and double / triple entry tourist visa is six(6) months."

Thai embassy website Tokyo.

I am assuming by "Valid for 6 months" that you are referring to the amount of time I can actually use this tourist visa twice, not the length of time I can stay in Thailand, correct? From what everyone is saying, it seems to me that I should not have any trouble with getting back-to-back 2-month tourist visas from the same consulate in a nearby country or, after one or both of these tourist visas, going back out and obtaining a 3-month EDU visa, that I could come back in the country and use to enroll back in our language school with the prospect of obtaining another 1-year extension with them with subsequent local reports to to immigration. If I am reading anyone wrong in this conclusion, please let me know.

Also, if my kids stay in country with friends while my wife and I pop in and out of the country to obtain one or more tourist visas, should that pose any problem when we finally leave the country for the US and show up at the airport next year with my kids' long overstay on their initial 3-month non-immigrant O visas back in August of 2012, even though their parents have left and returned to the country one or more times in the interim?

Lastly, it follows that I should be able to get another 30-day extension of my second tourist visa at local immigration without problem, as well. But, I do not want to assume this. Please let me know, if anyone thinks this will not be a possibility.

Thanks, everyone, for your very helpful and seasoned insights into these matters.

[Mario2008]

Only in Laos will you be able to get a double entry tourist visa.

Validity is the time in which you must use the entries, indeed not the same as the time you can stay.

As long as the kids are not yet 15 when leaving, overstay is no problem for them (but is noted in the passport). Doesn't matter that you left yourself in between.

Extensions of a tourist visa are never a problem and just routine.

[Isaanman]

Only in Laos will you be able to get a double entry tourist visa.

Thanks, Mario for the confirmation. When we lived in Isaan, we merely headed to the Thai/Lao border on the way to Pakse, checked out of Thailand, crossed into Laos, checked in, went to the other side of Lao immigration building and checked out, and then came back into Thailand with another 90-day extension stamp in our passports--a 1-hour, turn key operation at the border. We were on multi-entry non immigrant-0 visas at the time.

To make this border crossing now (7 years later) and obtain either a 2-month tourist visa or the ED visa from the Thai consulate (which, I am assuming from other replies on this thread, is only in Savannaket or Vientienne), can I merely go to the border and recieve an entry visa into Laos to do this? Or, do I need to go the Lao Embassy in BKK (lambaak maak!), like I did over a decade ago, to get permission (i.e. a visa) to enter Laos? If there is a post or thread already detailing this specific info on the forum that you know about, that would suffice, as well.

Thanks again.

[Mario2008]

You get the Laos visa at the border.

If you go to below link, you will find links to recent reports about getting a visa in the region at the different consulates, for different visa types. There is also informaiton on transportation and where to stay in there.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/189375-latest-reports-of-getting-a-visa-in-the-region/

[ubonjoe]

You can get a Lao visa on arrival when entering Laos. Cost is $35 or 1500 baht.

Before going to embassy or consulate you will need to make a copy of Lao visa/entry stamps to attach to your visa application.