The Law. Working or Volunteering in Thailand.

[iancnx]

Can someone please posts the links to the written law in Thai and English (I remember seeing similar on TV moons ago).

Background.

A local headmaster in my very rural Tambon just cannot get his head around me not being able to casually work at his school. He has 32k to pay me. I tell him I cannot work, I do not need the money, and I cannot volunteer, as I will be breaking the law and risk having my visa on marriage extension revoked. (I am 52 and have taken early retirement, happily married with son living in our own home).

I have no intention whatsoever of applying for a work permit, but I would consider volunteering. I am not a school teacher, but I am an adult learning facilitator/instructor (UK C&G). I was a programme manager by profession with extensive international consulting experience. I do not have a BA but have a string of professional qualifications and work experience that would equate to a Masters.

Head of Immigration says No Problem, but I have no intention of getting sucked into a 'but you have broken the law' scenario at a later date. I will not jeopardise the super life I have here with my family on the nod of a maipenrai.

The links would be of great help. Thanks.

[TerryLH]

"I have no intention whatsoever of applying for a work permit..."

Why not? You would then be eligible to work for pay or as a volunteer.

The immigration office doesn't have anything to do with work permits. They are issued by the Labor Office.

You can get a work permit with an extension based on marriage. Have the school talk to someone at the Labor Office for details of what they'll need to do to apply for a work permit for you.

I don't have links to the laws, but you can probably get that info from the pinned topics at the top of the forum.

[iancnx]

"I have no intention whatsoever of applying for a work permit..."

Why not? You would then be eligible to work for pay or as a volunteer.

The immigration office doesn't have anything to do with work permits. They are issued by the Labor Office.

You can get a work permit with an extension based on marriage. Have the school talk to someone at the Labor Office for details of what they'll need to do to apply for a work permit for you.

I don't have links to the laws, but you can probably get that info from the pinned topics at the top of the forum.

Thanks for the positive reply.

Why not? Purely because I have been led to believe that I would have to leave the country at some point (at the end of the work/volunteering) and go through the whole non imm o visa application again + new extension on marriage together with the associated 'interviews' bla bla bla. I am simply not prepared to endure that demeaning process again if I can help it.

Are you suggesting I can get a WP that would have absolutely no effect on my current visa status? I have Non Imm O visa issued in Hull UK 4 years ago and have been on annual extensions on marriage ever since. I have never worked in Thailand.

[TerryLH]

"Are you suggesting I can get a WP that would have absolutely no effect on my current visa status?"

Yes, I am.

If you stopped working, your extension would only end if it was based on working, not if it's based on marriage.

I did it myself for a number of years.

If you decide not to take the job, how about posting info or referring people to the school. Others might be interested.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I would let them get stuffed. Tell the school master Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to do even unpaid volunteer (I known, oxymoron) work w/o allot of hassle and that he should complain to his elected officials about it and if the law was ever changed, you would be happy to help him out.

Edited September 20, 2013 by OMGImInPattaya

[sustento]

It would also deprive a lot of children of the chance of learning about the outside world and perhaps changing their views about Thailand's relationship with the rest of the world.

[Maestro]

I would let them get stuffed. Tell the school master Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to do even unpaid volunteer (I known, oxymoron) work w/o allot of hassle and that he should complain to his elected officials about it and if the law was ever changed, you would be happy to help him out.

It is the employer's job to apply for the work permit and it is he who has the "hassle" of providing all the documents. The OP will keep his immigration status of having permission to stay for the reason of living with his Thai wife (marriage extension)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JLCrab]

The OP says he is not a teacher and has experience with adult learning so what is it he would actually be doing at the school? Post #6 suggests about helping the children learn about the outside world.

Maybe the head master could take some of his funds and buy drinks and snacks for some of the children off premises and the OP can then help some of the children while they all casually enjoy their snacks about what goes on in the outside world and Thailand's relation to it as they practice their English not on school premises.

Edited September 20, 2013 by JLCrab

[iancnx]

What does the school want? Primarily leading English conversation with the students together with learning about life outside of the village; to open their eyes and broaden their horizons. Off-site arrangements would be wholly innappropriate, and would in any case be classed as working without a WP.

[iancnx]

I would let them get stuffed. Tell the school master Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to do even unpaid volunteer (I known, oxymoron) work w/o allot of hassle and that he should complain to his elected officials about it and if the law was ever changed, you would be happy to help him out.

It is the employer's job to apply for the work permit and it is he who has the "hassle" of providing all the documents. The OP will keep his immigration status of having permission to stay for the reason of living with his Thai wife (marriage extension)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Do you have any links that would be useful to the headmaster? If it really is a hassle for the school (as opposed to a maipenrai) I suspect his enthusiasm might diminish somewhat. Also I would need to be absolutely convinced that my current extension on marriage status could not be revoked with immigration smiles saying oh now you need to do this, or go there, or stand on your head..... At my own cost of course.....

[ubonjoe]

I would let them get stuffed. Tell the school master Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to do even unpaid volunteer (I known, oxymoron) work w/o allot of hassle and that he should complain to his elected officials about it and if the law was ever changed, you would be happy to help him out.

It is the employer's job to apply for the work permit and it is he who has the "hassle" of providing all the documents. The OP will keep his immigration status of having permission to stay for the reason of living with his Thai wife (marriage extension)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Do you have any links that would be useful to the headmaster? If it really is a hassle for the school (as opposed to a maipenrai) I suspect his enthusiasm might diminish somewhat. Also I would need to be absolutely convinced that my current extension on marriage status could not be revoked with immigration smiles saying oh now you need to do this, or go there, or stand on your head..... At my own cost of course.....

Don't worry about immigration. There are literally hundreds of people that have work permits and have extensions based upon marriage. Police order 305/2551 clause 2.18 even includes proof of income (40k or more) by showing tax payments for those working.

It would be best if the school contacted the local labor office to find out what is required for the work permit.

[dighambara]

"I have no intention whatsoever of applying for a work permit..."

Why not? You would then be eligible to work for pay or as a volunteer.

The immigration office doesn't have anything to do with work permits. They are issued by the Labor Office.

You can get a work permit with an extension based on marriage. Have the school talk to someone at the Labor Office for details of what they'll need to do to apply for a work permit for you.

I don't have links to the laws, but you can probably get that info from the pinned topics at the top of the forum.

HMMM - You do not seem to understadn that a work permit is an extreme pain in the A** to get as compared to the simplicity of a marriage visa.

I am in a similar fix - I would love to assist teaching English but can only do so as 'entertainment'. Work laws are so strict that any foreigner on marriage or retirement visas can be deported for taking out the trash.

Perhaps a foreigner could work out playing with the students in English as a 'weasel worded' method of actually teaching the students.

[Mario2008]

Have the headmaster talk with the local labour office, you will need forms from them anyway to apply for the work permit (even as a volunteer).

If you apply as volunteer, there will be no immigration involvement (other than maybe checking you have a wp). You stay in Thailand based on marriage.

It is not difficult, but needs a lot of paperwork

As volunteer you do not need a teaching license or waiver.

[ubonjoe]

"I have no intention whatsoever of applying for a work permit..."

Why not? You would then be eligible to work for pay or as a volunteer.

The immigration office doesn't have anything to do with work permits. They are issued by the Labor Office.

You can get a work permit with an extension based on marriage. Have the school talk to someone at the Labor Office for details of what they'll need to do to apply for a work permit for you.

I don't have links to the laws, but you can probably get that info from the pinned topics at the top of the forum.

HMMM - You do not seem to understadn that a work permit is an extreme pain in the A** to get as compared to the simplicity of a marriage visa.

I am in a similar fix - I would love to assist teaching English but can only do so as 'entertainment'. Work laws are so strict that any foreigner on marriage or retirement visas can be deported for taking out the trash.

Perhaps a foreigner could work out playing with the students in English as a 'weasel worded' method of actually teaching the students.

You are the one that doesn't understand. Read my post just before this one.

It is an extension of stay based upon marriage not a visa.

Work permits and extensions are entirely different things.

Retirement extensions are entirely different from those based upon marriage when it comes to working.

There are even special work permit rules for those married to a Thai.

Edited September 21, 2013 by ubonjoe

[iancnx]

I would let them get stuffed. Tell the school master Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to do even unpaid volunteer (I known, oxymoron) work w/o allot of hassle and that he should complain to his elected officials about it and if the law was ever changed, you would be happy to help him out.

It is the employer's job to apply for the work permit and it is he who has the "hassle" of providing all the documents. The OP will keep his immigration status of having permission to stay for the reason of living with his Thai wife (marriage extension)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Do you have any links that would be useful to the headmaster? If it really is a hassle for the school (as opposed to a maipenrai) I suspect his enthusiasm might diminish somewhat. Also I would need to be absolutely convinced that my current extension on marriage status could not be revoked with immigration smiles saying oh now you need to do this, or go there, or stand on your head..... At my own cost of course.....

Don't worry about immigration. There are literally hundreds of people that have work permits and have extensions based upon marriage. Police order 305/2551 clause 2.18 even includes proof of income (40k or more) by showing tax payments for those working.

It would be best if the school contacted the local labor office to find out what is required for the work permit.

I have googled Police order 305/2551 and found a PDF in English. I agree the inference is that working whilst in receipt of an extension on marriage is OK. What does the physical WP look like? Is it a stamp in your passport? If so who inserts the stamp? Or is it just a letter or form signed by the Labour Office? Thanks for the response.

[Mario2008]

The WP is a passport size book, blue of colour and issued by the labour office.

[bifftastic]

Your visa status, and your work permit status won't be related.

Visa/extension of stay-immigration bureau.

Work permit-labour department.

If someone's extension of stay is based on their job/work permit, and they lose/leave that job, then their official reason for being in the country has ended. That's why, in those circumstances, they would either have to leave, or go through another process of getting another extension or visa.

Your extension of stay is based on the fact that you're married to a Thai national. If that changes (ie. you get divorced) then your official reason for being in the country would end, and you would have to do the same.

So, you can, with the schools help, apply for a work permit to work at the school without affecting your current immigration status.

If, or when, you decide to stop working at the school, your work permit would cease to be valid, but your immigration status would be unaffected.

[ubonjoe]

A work permit is a book and is done by the labor ministry.

Immigration will have nothing to do with getting it and will not know about it unless you inform them.

[jpinx]

**********

You are the one that doesn't understand. Read my post just before this one.

It is an extension of stay based upon marriage not a visa.

Work permits and extensions are entirely different things.

Retirement extensions are entirely different from those based upon marriage when it comes to working.

There are even special work permit rules for those married to a Thai.

I believe it is not possible to get a WP when your visa extension is based on retirement, but does that restriction apply to unpaid, voluntary work ?

[iancnx]

It is not difficult, but needs a lot of paperwork

As volunteer you do not need a teaching license or waiver.

Thanks, Mario. This veering off the original topic, but, Given I am an adult trainer / workshop facilitator / Trainer of Trainers / Instructor, would that be the type of experience that would be granted a waiver in your experience?

[overherebc]

iancnx

FYI

[ubonjoe]

**********

You are the one that doesn't understand. Read my post just before this one.

It is an extension of stay based upon marriage not a visa.

Work permits and extensions are entirely different things.

Retirement extensions are entirely different from those based upon marriage when it comes to working.

There are even special work permit rules for those married to a Thai.

I believe it is not possible to get a WP when your visa extension is based on retirement, but does that restriction apply to unpaid, voluntary work ?

From reports on this forum it entirely depends upon which labor office you deal with.

There are people working on retirement extensions. Others have gotten volunteer work permits as well.

There is nothing in the ministerial regulations that says you can't get the work permit. It is just the local policy of some offices.

Edited September 21, 2013 by ubonjoe

[Mario2008]

It is not difficult, but needs a lot of paperwork

As volunteer you do not need a teaching license or waiver.

Thanks, Mario. This veering off the original topic, but, Given I am an adult trainer / workshop facilitator / Trainer of Trainers / Instructor, would that be the type of experience that would be granted a waiver in your experience?

A volunteer doesn't need a teacher license or waiver.

If you want pay you need a waiver or real teaching license. The waiver is not difficult to get and is for two year. But you need to have a university degree.

The real teaching license requires a degree in teaching/having teaching license in your home county.

[JLCrab]

"I have no intention whatsoever of applying for a work permit..."

Why not? You would then be eligible to work for pay or as a volunteer.

The immigration office doesn't have anything to do with work permits. They are issued by the Labor Office.

You can get a work permit with an extension based on marriage. Have the school talk to someone at the Labor Office for details of what they'll need to do to apply for a work permit for you.

I don't have links to the laws, but you can probably get that info from the pinned topics at the top of the forum.

HMMM - You do not seem to understadn that a work permit is an extreme pain in the A** to get as compared to the simplicity of a marriage visa.

I am in a similar fix - I would love to assist teaching English but can only do so as 'entertainment'. Work laws are so strict that any foreigner on marriage or retirement visas can be deported for taking out the trash.

Perhaps a foreigner could work out playing with the students in English as a 'weasel worded' method of actually teaching the students.

As OP likes to say -- entirely inappropriate. Sitting in a restaurant and talking with the students supervised or otherwise. Entirely inappropriate.

[iancnx]

It is not difficult, but needs a lot of paperwork

As volunteer you do not need a teaching license or waiver.

Thanks, Mario. This veering off the original topic, but, Given I am an adult trainer / workshop facilitator / Trainer of Trainers / Instructor, would that be the type of experience that would be granted a waiver in your experience?

A volunteer doesn't need a teacher license or waiver.

If you want pay you need a waiver or real teaching license. The waiver is not difficult to get and is for two year. But you need to have a university degree.

The real teaching license requires a degree in teaching/having teaching license in your home county.

That's clear now Mario, Thank You. Must be tens of thousands like me around (of my age group when attendance at uni was not the norm). A very simple minor tweak to the rules would be of such enormous benefit to the education system. Of course, if I had a mind to I could easily 'obtain' a degree, like many have! Not for me! What a very sad state of affairs.

[iancnx]

Advice here over the WP Volunteer as an Extendee on Marriage has been very useful, and quite a surprise I have to say. It is hugely reassuring to learn that my passport will NOT be stamped, endorsed or visa changed in any way - this has been my major worry.

I am happy to point headmaster in the direction of the Labour Office now...... Lets see if he goes for it!

[Hecate]

I would let them get stuffed. Tell the school master Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to do even unpaid volunteer (I known, oxymoron) work w/o allot of hassle and that he should complain to his elected officials about it and if the law was ever changed, you would be happy to help him out.

I do this all the time. Sadly no change yet. I'd love to teach again and am thinking about renting out my place in Thailand and going to Cambodia. Less hassle than working down the road in Thailand.

If I did work in Thailand and something happened with the job, I would have to leave the country in seven days. That means my boss could blackmail me into working long hours or whatever else he wanted. No thanks.

I'm very well-qualified and have come here on my own dime. I'd rather work in a place that has some appreciation of this than one that threatens me with imprisonment for volunteering. I'm living in one of the few countries that won't allow me to tutor private students. That might change, and I don't mean the law.

Thai officials can't understand why their nationals have such poor English skills compared to just about everyone else. Maybe they'll wake up in 2015. Ironically, this whole system was conceived to protect Thai jobs. When the economy opens up under ASEAN, the best jobs will go to people who speak the best English--anyone but Thais.

[scorecard]

A work permit is a book and is done by the labor ministry.

Immigration will have nothing to do with getting it and will not know about it unless you inform them.

And it must be renewed every 12 months.

Yes the initial applications needs some back up documents, mostly coming from the employer side, but they

are standard documents that the school headmaster has instant access to and uses often for all sorts of purposes.

Renewal is quite easy.

Both initial app. and renewal are quite painless.

Dear OP, you mentioned you don't want to risk upsetting your family situation.

Well working without a WP would create that risk.

I encourage you, ultimately your choice of course, to go for the WP.

Edited September 21, 2013 by scorecard

[Hecate]

Thanks to all who posted. I didn't know that all I have to do is marry a Thai and it will be legal for me to volunteer.