Sinsot, Paying By Cheque

[cdnvic]

I'm getting married soon and pay a sinsot of B999,999. Don't worry, it's just for show and I'm getting it back less the wedding expenses. I don't want to exchange that much money to Thai currency and then change it back again, not to mention I'd worry about getting robbed carrying that much money. So I want to bring some token amount in cash and bring the remainder as a cheque. How do you recommend doing that?

Sure, and they'll give you a photo of your wife until the check clears.

cv

[The Skipper]

Sinsot is an important part of the Thai wedding ceremony.

Thais do it and if you have a Thai wedding then I think mandatory.

Total embarrassment it it doesn't happen.

Cameras rolling, people having a good time, big impressive pile of money.

It's allot of fun and giving the family some cash helps them pay for all the wedding prep they do, like painting the house, buying wedding clothes, paying for some gold.

Some families keep it, some give it back, some give it to the daughter.

These can be very poor people up country and if your getting married, I'd encourage you to give it to them, even if they offer it back. It's really not that much in perspective.

I've been to many weddings, middle class, and up country.

100,000 is considered the going rate for middle class, less up country unless you can afford to be more generous.

Movie Stars and high rollers like to flash a million or more.

It's also common to help out mom and dad in their retirement years. Most Thai kids try to help and if you marry local then part of the commitment should be helping out.

Some have reported to have been taken advantage of, just be fair but firm.

Probably a misunderstanding, language problems.

You meant to say 99,999, right?

[meemiathai]

Agreed with Skipper.

[tyler2uk]

It's probably too late to back out.

She most likely announced to the entire village about the million on the way.

Major loss of face now if it does not happen.

We all know what can happen when they lose face and the neighbors start talking.

i agree with you skipper, If this guy has agreed to that amount and doesnt produce then there may be big problems ahead

[Helicopter]

Thanks to everyone for your input.

Anyways, I talked to my girlfriend about my concerns and she said that her family is fine with a cheque, being the money is going to be returned. But she did say showing a lot of cash would be good because if the whole amount was a cheque it wouldn't look very believable. So we decided that I'll bring at least 100,000 in cash in the form of small bills (100 baht bills probably, 1000 bills @ 100 = 100,000), and the remainder as a fake cheque. I'm going to let her parents keep all the cash even if they try to give it back to me. That amount's nothing to me. In farangland you'll spend tons more than that. My sister spent the equivalent of over 1 mil baht on her wedding many years ago. A good friend of mine got married about a year ago and spent the equivalent of over 2 mil baht. Even if I had to give her parents 1 mil baht and didn't get anything back it would still be reasonable compared to what I'd be spending on a wedding in farangland. In farangland, you show off to all your friends by having an expensive wedding. In Thailand you show off to all your friends by showing a large sinsot. As the Thais say, "same-same but different". In either case it's just for show, but in farangland, after the wedding's over you have nothing but memories to show for it. At least in Thailand someone ends up with the sinsot and hopefully puts it to good use. In reality, only spending 100,000 baht on a wedding seems like the deal of the century to me.

I think some of you misunderstood my situation. I'm going to bring a fake cheque because they promised the money will be returned, so there is no need for a real cheque and no need to ever cash the cheque. I'm not trying to cheat them out of anything, nor will they be cheating me out of anything. We both know what's going on, but the guests don't.

I understand how important face is in Thailand and this seems to me to be an issue of face and little more. I don't mean to brag, but my girlfriend is extremely stunning and has a great personality. It's not just me, but all my friends and even complete strangers, both Thai and farangs, comment about how beautiful she is. I think if she just got an average or below average sinsot her family would lose a lot of face. IMHO, she's by far the most desirable single lady in her community and everyone there expects that a girl of her calibre will be able to find a man who's willing to show a large sinsot. If the sinsot is only 100,000 or less they'd all think maybe there was some big problem with my girl because the amount was so much less than they expected. It would result in lots of people wispering about her and a big loss of face for her and her family.

My understanding is that 200,000 baht sinsots are pretty much the norm for very average never-married girls being wed to farangs. 500,000 baht and higher sinsots may not be common but there's still quite a few of them out there for the very desirable girls marrying men who are well-off. Under 100,000 baht sinsots are for undesirable girls or average girls marrying poor Thai guys. That's not any scientific study of sinsots, just my own numbers based on hearing about what others have paid. I don't mean to be insulting to anyone who paid under 100,000 and maybe my numbers are way off depending on what area of Thailand or what the family is like. It might also depend on the history of sinsot amounts in the community. For example if a recent wedding had a 1 mil sinsot and your wedding is next and your bride is considered by the community to be better than the previous, then showing less than 1 mil will look bad. I understand that having inflated (sometimes hugely inflated) sinsots is the norm because it's all about show and face, and there's no actual buying of a bride in these cases. If the bride is highly desireable and / or the groom is well-off, an inflated sinsot is expected to be shown to prove the bride's / groom's worth in front of the community. I know this idea is foreign to most of us farangs and may even sound silly, but what the heck if it makes my wife and her family happy then I'm willing to play along. I'd be just as happy without any ceremony if that was what my wife wanted. Whatever we do for a ceremony is just for her and her family, not for me as I don't care either way.

Skipper, thanks for all your posts. I did understand her correctly about the amount. Actually at first I misunderstood. Before I met with her parents, she mentioned 100,000, but she often messes up in translating numbers into English and as we were talking it became obvious that there was a misuderstanding and I had her write down the amount and she wrote down 1,000,000. She made it clear from the start that the money would be returned to me and reiterated that during our engagement discussions with her parents. I never considered trying to back out of the sinsot as I already knew that would cause a big loss of face. The wedding is definitely going ahead with the 1 mil sinsot in the form of a fake cheque and some cash.

Tyler2UK, you said, "If you gal is asking for that amount you need to give it serious thought, thats a big amount..ive known of thai-thai going for 3-4000bt if any and ive seen thai-farang going for 30-40,000bt.."

That's 3,000-4,000 Thai baht and not a typo? Wow, how generous! Lots of guys (Thai guys) can spend that much on one evening out with their friends. To a farang that's like one dinner! The farang price, 30,000-40,000, might barely cover the cost of a plane ticket to Thailand, and not even come close to how much one would blow on the rest of their holiday expenses. Is that all it's worth to some guys to make their wedding celebration and parents in law happy? That sounds so sad to me. I think most parents would be completely insulted by such a sinsot. It's better not to give anything than to give an amount so low as to be insulting. It's like leaving a couple small denomination coins as a tip after a fancy meal in farangland. It's totally insulting to the waitress. If you left nothing she'd probably just think you were cheap or didn't believe in tipping. She might be upset, but wouldn't likely be insulted if you explained to her your motives. By leaving such a small amount you are admitting that you believe in tipping but just wanted to insult her or let her know that her service was totally unacceptable. Same-same with the sinsot. By showing a small sinsot you are admitting that you accept the sinsot tradition and that you're willing to show in front of everyone what little worth you place on your bride and her family. I can accept guys that don't believe in paying a sinsot and don't because of their principles. But I can't accept guys that don't believe in the sinsot or don't want to pay it but end up paying some rediculously small amount. Maybe if the girl was a bar girl or already had kids it would be acceptable. But for a girl who's neither it's really insulting. Of course I'm not Thai so that's just my feeling of what I'd feel like if I was Thai. Maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe these cases you're talking about were exceptional cases where the man was super poor and / or the girl was someone nobody else would ever consider marrying.

Well, I'm off to Thailand soon for my wedding and might not get a chance to check back in this thread till after my honeymoon is over. Thanks again for everyone's help

PS. message to Daleyboy:

I see that you've been online but not a peep out of you. What's the matter, aren't you brave enough to respond one way or the other to my challenge? From that I take it that you are the one who's the coward troll, going around the board and trying to intimidate newbies. Sorry charlie, it didn't work this time because I don't run and hide in the face of such a cowardly attack. At least I now know who to ignore in the future.

[The Skipper]

Whew, Everything under control. Good luck. Sounds like you are well informed.

Next.

[Maigo6]

If what I'm saying is true and I can prove it, you pay me 499,999.50 Baht. If I'm a troll, I'll pay you that amount. You're welcome to come to my wedding and witness for yourself the sinsot!!!

Will you be paying Daleyboy with one of your Fake Cheques ?

[Maigo6]

Well, I'm off to Thailand soon for my wedding and might not get a chance to check back in this thread till after my honeymoon is over. Thanks again for everyone's help

I'm quite sure you'll be checking in to see if your latest post made any impression as your original post died a death So you came back with an epic post about how much a girl is worth and other guys that pay less are cheap and girls that are cheap are cheap cos nobody else will marry then etc etc etc.....

I'm with Daleyboy on this one.

[tyler2uk]

That's 3,000-4,000 Thai baht and not a typo? Wow, how generous! Lots of guys (Thai guys) can spend that much on one evening out with their friends.

Yes but there will be many more thais who cant actually afford to spend that much in an evening, most of the thais around where i am only earn 6,000-8,000bt per month...and yes i have seen many marriages thai-thai go for these amounts..

As i say i have also seen farang-thai marrages go for 30,000bt-40,000bt and some who dont pay a penny!!..

i payed 100,000bt. its up to other people what they pay...

Maybe as you stated it would be an insult offering such small amounts, well maybe these people just dont have the cash

I am sure everyone would like to offer large amounts of money, but the real truth is not everyone has big money..

I think some of you misunderstood my situation. I'm going to bring a fake cheque because they promised the money will be returned, so there is no need for a real cheque and no need to ever cash the cheque. I'm not trying to cheat them out of anything, nor will they be cheating me out of anything. We both know what's going on, but the guests don't.

I find this would be more insulting than anything, i mean you are now getting married to a person you are going to spend the rest of your life with and you seem to be more interseted in getting across the point that the cheque will be fake and you will get it all back...

so how you can be so judgemental of what a thai person offers is beyond me..