personal loan where do you go

[loong]

A business that is valued at 12 million Baht but only generates 60,000 Baht profit/month is for me a failed business but if you could elaborate if the loans are already deducted and what you have left is 60,000 Baht?

Get rid of one car. With an income of 60,000 Baht you don't really need to drive around with two cars to look like Khun Chai.

Another option is sell the business just to get out of the loans. From my experience, investors would buy companies only at 24-36 months of the profit. If your company gets 60,000 Baht in profits per month, the real value would be between 24-36 months of the profit. Baht 1.44 to 2.16 million. You can't find an investor that buys a company for Baht 12 million to wait 10 years to get his money back.

Assuming this is a family business.

A lot of people talk about how much profit that their business generates, but forget about salaries for maybe 3 or 4 family members that may be working there and include those salaries in the profit figure.

Profit figure would be much lower if the salaries are taken into consideration..

[vo rogue]

thx everyone for advise, sorry not to respond earlier,im hopeless with computers, first post, desperate times. the land valued at 4mil is where we live, wife/daughter wont sell. the 2 cars 1 is my step daughters (24yo spender runs our business) we paid cash 1.1mil then had to put under finance loan of 600,000 to finish our apartments( 24 in c-rai city) the pay-out amount is now 850,000 (must open my own loan shark business next life) we are told small fee to pay out 10,000 baht. 2nd car is wife and i we live 35min from c-rai so need it, to pay out would be 950,000 through toyota finance not sure about fees on that one. we had 1 good car i told wife/daughter not to buy any cars untill apartments are going well, they dont listen to commonsense financial advise, i need to borrow( we have 0 in bank) 400,000 for marriage ext any ideas which bank have to morgage the apartments i guess borrowed from my family/friends back home too many times, money goes up in smoke in thailand.

[Upnotover]

Sell the 24yo spenders car, make her live in one of the 24 apartments so she can run the business in-situ. Or better still sell the apartments (who owns them?) as presumably the business is based upon 24 x 2500/month rental?

[MobileContent]

thx everyone for advise, sorry not to respond earlier,im hopeless with computers, first post, desperate times. the land valued at 4mil is where we live, wife/daughter wont sell. the 2 cars 1 is my step daughters (24yo spender runs our business) we paid cash 1.1mil then had to put under finance loan of 600,000 to finish our apartments( 24 in c-rai city) the pay-out amount is now 850,000 (must open my own loan shark business next life) we are told small fee to pay out 10,000 baht. 2nd car is wife and i we live 35min from c-rai so need it, to pay out would be 950,000 through toyota finance not sure about fees on that one. we had 1 good car i told wife/daughter not to buy any cars untill apartments are going well, they dont listen to commonsense financial advise, i need to borrow( we have 0 in bank) 400,000 for marriage ext any ideas which bank have to morgage the apartments i guess borrowed from my family/friends back home too many times, money goes up in smoke in thailand.

I thought already of it. It's either apartments or a resort that you got yourself into.

If they don't want to sell the land it also means they will not agree to sell the business.

You do not need to borrow anything. Let your wife and step-daughter take care about it as they are running the business to the wall and I am sure they control most of the shares.

Let's say 24 apartments x 5,000 Baht a month will generate around 100,000 Baht in revenues. You still have no way of break even for a long time to come.

Are the apartments completed?

Good luck

[harrry]

thx everyone for advise, sorry not to respond earlier,im hopeless with computers, first post, desperate times. the land valued at 4mil is where we live, wife/daughter wont sell. the 2 cars 1 is my step daughters (24yo spender runs our business) we paid cash 1.1mil then had to put under finance loan of 600,000 to finish our apartments( 24 in c-rai city) the pay-out amount is now 850,000 (must open my own loan shark business next life) we are told small fee to pay out 10,000 baht. 2nd car is wife and i we live 35min from c-rai so need it, to pay out would be 950,000 through toyota finance not sure about fees on that one. we had 1 good car i told wife/daughter not to buy any cars untill apartments are going well, they dont listen to commonsense financial advise, i need to borrow( we have 0 in bank) 400,000 for marriage ext any ideas which bank have to morgage the apartments i guess borrowed from my family/friends back home too many times, money goes up in smoke in thailand.

I thought already of it. It's either apartments or a resort that you got yourself into.

If they don't want to sell the land it also means they will not agree to sell the business.

You do not need to borrow anything. Let your wife and step-daughter take care about it as they are running the business to the wall and I am sure they control most of the shares.

Let's say 24 apartments x 5,000 Baht a month will generate around 100,000 Baht in revenues. You still have no way of break even for a long time to come.

Are the apartments completed?

Good luck

chaingrai 2000 a month is more realistic

[Totster]

thx everyone for advise, sorry not to respond earlier,im hopeless with computers, first post, desperate times. the land valued at 4mil is where we live, wife/daughter wont sell. the 2 cars 1 is my step daughters (24yo spender runs our business) we paid cash 1.1mil then had to put under finance loan of 600,000 to finish our apartments( 24 in c-rai city) the pay-out amount is now 850,000 (must open my own loan shark business next life) we are told small fee to pay out 10,000 baht. 2nd car is wife and i we live 35min from c-rai so need it, to pay out would be 950,000 through toyota finance not sure about fees on that one. we had 1 good car i told wife/daughter not to buy any cars untill apartments are going well, they dont listen to commonsense financial advise, i need to borrow( we have 0 in bank) 400,000 for marriage ext any ideas which bank have to morgage the apartments i guess borrowed from my family/friends back home too many times, money goes up in smoke in thailand.

You don't need a car. Get rid of one of them (at least) and get a grip !

totster

[worgeordie]

If the wife wont sell the land to save the business, you are really in trouble,

and you are going to loose everything,the business comes first,you don't

need a car to run that business,never mind 2,

Some people should never go into business,they just don't have a clue !

regards Worgeordie

[oogster8]

Borrowing to solve loan problems rarely helps. The question that needs to be asked is why is op supporting 5 adults and 4 children. I have to surmise op is only there as a funding device.

Easy to see if this is true. Just request wife to sell her land..................lol. Her actions will tell you her true motives.

[Hedghog]

Sorry OP.

I think you are toast.

The wife won't help you,by selling the land says it all.

Good luck,but I fear you are heading home.

[patongphil]

A business generating a profit of 50,000 baht a month is fairly valued at 50,000 X 12X 3 equals 1.8 million in any REAL evaluation. If you can sell it for 12 million then do so and then run becaause the new owner will be after you big time.

[Paul888]

I think you may have seriously overestimated the value of your business based on your stated profits even if the 60,000 is after paying a salary for the 5 adults involved in the business and in any case you are unlikely to be able to get finance secured on it.

The only way out for you is do as others have said and sell whatever assets that you have and downsize your lifestyle. Do not worry about what people especially your wife and any other Thais involved will think of you, just tell them that by doing this you have a chance to grow back but leave it too late or get more in debt and you will probably lose everything.

Cut costs wherever you can. Then cut some more. Both in business and personally. You might need 2 cars but you dont need two cars that are costing you 32,000 a month for 7 years that is for sure.

Good luck. I hope it works out for you.

Edit: I guess the stated value is based on the value of the buildings (which I presume his wife or her family own?). I don't know how much the OP invested in this set up, but I am not too hopeful for him.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Paul888

[oogster8]

Tell the 24 year old step daughter to get a REAL job!

[maprao]

How much did you borrow from the UK before. This will give you an indication as to the futility of the situation. Good Luck

I have to agree with a previous poster you are probably heading home.

I have edited to add that Thais especially from rural areas have no idea how to budget.

Edited September 24, 2013 by maprao

[wolf5370]

A business generating a profit of 50,000 baht a month is fairly valued at 50,000 X 12X 3 equals 1.8 million in any REAL evaluation. If you can sell it for 12 million then do so and then run becaause the new owner will be after you big time.

Yes for the business (good will), but I guess he is including the assets like the building (and land it is on) and fittings and fixtures.

There is perhaps an option of selling the good will (business) and lease/rent the building, that would generate income top pay off the debts and an income - assuming you can find a buyer (perhaps have a word with Sunbelt?) - although this will not happen overnight, a car must go to fund the interim!

[balo]

You have been milked for years and now its time to go home.

[Hedghog]

Change your visa status.

Consider the visiting the wife option,or Ed visa.

At least then you won't have to raise Bht 400.000 for seasoning.

Then try and raise enough funds for an exit strategy,keep it out of the wife's hands.

As at present you seem very vulnerable to skullduggery.

This gives you time to see how things pan out.

Good luck.

[yoshiwara]

The question now is what assets are in your name? (ie that you have title to sell) Any?

Edited September 25, 2013 by yoshiwara

[scobie redux]

People really do like to delude themselves, don't they?

I'm not going to comment on the OP's predicament because my thoughts will get me a warning. However, it is a truism that 12 million baht business which generates 60,000 per month is, in fact, a 2 million baht business.

[rgs2001uk]

I dont know how this is structured, did the OP pay cash for 24 apts at 500k = 12 million.

The returns sound about right, rent returning 1/200th per month, 2500 rent per unit x 24 = 60k per month income.

Jeez even if he was able to get 5000k per mont per unit thats only 120k per month.

The Op is in way over his head, probably sounded feasible after about 6 Changs in his local, with the business plan worked out on the back of a fag packet.

[starship]

To get out of your current predicament i would try the following:

Get rid of 1 car at least. You are hemorrhaging money that you do not have. You are/the business is supporting so many people it is unmanageable. If you are paying for you're wife's daughter's car - don't. Do you really need her to be managing the business? Can't you or your wife do this? She is an adult and responsible for herself. She can get another job and support herself, as can others if they are old enough.This is not intended to be personal. Of course you may like to help her/others as well, but financially you can't.

As others have suggested try and sell the business. If it's really worth 12 MB and only producing a tiny income of 60000B (60000B is o.k it's just a tiny income for a business of this value to produce). If you can't sell it, try and lend cheaply against it. You may run into problems as some lenders may base what they are willing to lend you solely on the income (which is small relatively) rather than the 'bricks and mortar'. If you are able to get a bank to lend to you based on the building value and it is really worth this much you may be able to get a sizeable loan. If you manage this obviously try and get the lowest interest rate you can. You don't want a loan at c/c rates of 15-20+ for a large amount, as it will be completely unmanageable. You need to find a loan close to mortgage rates about 8%. Lots of banks offer 'my home my cash' type loans but you may not qualify for these as it's a business and business loans tend to be expensive here. 15%+ or so i think. If you get a loan it may be adviseable to get a long term loan. You will pay more in the long run, but the debt will be manageable. A Thai friend has suggested The government savings bank or Krungthai bank as offering low rates.

The same applies to your land. You could borrow against this in the same way.

You say you need a car to travel to the city. Solutions still have to be practical. It would be best to sell your 2nd car and buy a cheapy.I'm sure you could scrap enough together to buy one if you had to, and you can get old bangers for 40-50k. Even if you don't have the cash you could at least get finance on a cheapy at a car tent to get you through - at least for the time being. BTW, if you are only 6 months in to you finance you will effectively get nothing for you car but you will eliminate the debt.

As others have said, really selling one or the other or everything would be best and then starting over. However, selling things in LOS is easier said than done. If you can't sell - and quickly, your only option is to try and get an affordable loan. If you do this, learn from governments worldwide who have huge debts. Analysts state a debt becomes unsustainable if you are paying over 7%. Obviously it depends upon how much you are borrowing and earning. In your case maybe borrowing a lot and not earning very much. Higher rates can be manageable if you have a high income and a smallish debt.

A lot of these options are not ideal, they just may give you some breathing space. If you've got more time then sometimes things can be achieved.

The best thing of course is just to take the pain and learn from the experience for the future.

BTW. Don't ever go to moneylenders to try and get out of this problem. You may encounter fatal consequences here.

[vo rogue]

thx starship paul888 everyone for ideas we bought land 2mil baht completed building for 8mil = 10mil the cars are not part of business i know 10mil investment that returns 60,000 p/mth not great but thats apartments for ya i will return as a loan shark today went to see one loan 3mil pay 60,000 p/mth then to get your land back they want the 3mil still say after 10 years at 60k they still want 3mil i will try gov banks yes a car should go . o.k thx glen

[Totster]

Loan shark... jasus

totster

[oogster8]

BTW. Don't ever go to moneylenders to try and get out of this problem. You may encounter fatal consequences here.

The op has already suffered FATAL (financially speaking) conseuqences..............lol. Only way out is to run from the FAMILEE! and fast.

[brit1984]

situation is not that bad as value of assets > liabilities, but problem is return on capital < cost of capital

solution isn't taking on more expensive debt (that would just widen the gap as above)

solution is sell the cars and/or land to repay debts then you will have 60k/month rental yield to live off

if you need more, sell some/all apartments and re-invest in a more capital efficient venture and/or get a job

i guess you already know all this, but making it happen is another matter - good luck

[loong]

thx starship paul888 everyone for ideas we bought land 2mil baht completed building for 8mil = 10mil the cars are not part of business i know 10mil investment that returns 60,000 p/mth not great but thats apartments for ya i will return as a loan shark today went to see one loan 3mil pay 60,000 p/mth then to get your land back they want the 3mil still say after 10 years at 60k they still want 3mil i will try gov banks yes a car should go . o.k thx glen

If these apartments are only rented at 2,500Bt/month, then I suspect that they are really small single rooms with a bathroom.

I'm not really up to date with building costs, but 333,000Bt per unit sounds rather on the high side.

Maybe you could borrow the money from the family member that oversaw the building project.

When you say WE bought the land for 2mil and build costs 8mil, do you mean WE or did you fund this project? Is the business registered with you as a shareholder, or is it entirely in your wife's name?

If all the funding is/was your money and with your wife's refusal to sell the land to get you out of this financial mess, I would guess that you are feeling trapped and see no way out. But you have invested too much to just walk away.

The problem is that many Thais simply do not believe that a farang does not have inexhaustible funds.

When you are unable to service your/their commitments, you will be kee-neow and a good chance that you will be shown the door.

[CWMcMurray]

Yeah so the OP screwed up and blew his whole nest egg on house, apartment, cars , ect...

This being said, no need to beat him up about it.

Many people buy houses, land with mortgages, so can't see how it would be the end of the world if he ha his wife take or mortgage on the home or apartments.

If the 60 k in profit per month is in his wife's name, she should easily qualify for loan using property.

Check out the link below

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/Loans/OtherLoans/Pages/BualuangPoonpholLoans.aspx

From personal experience... 30 yr mortgage for 3.3 mil house worked out to just under 23k per month

This would cut his outgoing by half each month, but would mean longer term and over all more interest needing to be paid

But at least this would take off the pressure and get him with 400k back in his name

Not sure how old he is, but he would likely need to find some work to solve the problem Lon term, as in a few years people will likely want to get new cars...

Plus he no longer has any nest egg for retirement

So is it the best solution.. No... But can his wife get a loan and consolidate his debt... Yes!

And would certainly be better than going to a loan shark!

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[vo rogue]

thx brit 84 loong cw Mc i will see bkok bank g.s.b etc for lowcost loan over long term to save my lifesavings yes wifes name yes feel trapped re. glen

[oogster8]

Plus he no longer has any nest egg for retirement

So is it the best solution.. No... But can his wife get a loan and consolidate his debt... Yes!

And would certainly be better than going to a loan shark!


Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Im the wife!!!!!!!!!!!! Why would i get a loan to bail out FOOL husband.

There are times in life where one just has to admit they were STUPID and move on. This is one of those times. He doesnt even have 400,000 for his visa. Where is the wife in all this? Im thinking the wife wants op to move on too!

Theres got to be a business for advising farangs doing business with family. Charge 10,000 baht and just have a boilerplate form letter saying DONT DO IT!

Anyway what is op going to show bkk bank as income?. He has no assets as its all in wfies name.

Im starting to think this isnt for real. It just cant be.

Edited September 26, 2013 by oogster8

[BookMan]

thx brit 84 loong cw Mc i will see bkok bank g.s.b etc for lowcost loan over long term to save my lifesavings yes wifes name yes feel trapped re. glen

Good luck OP, hope you pull through with your financial issues.

If you do, don't forget how you got into the situation and how your wife was not willing to help you out with her land.

Food for thought.

[CWMcMurray]

Oogster8 ...

Loan also would not be in his name, it would be in his wife's name...

Guess the OP will know real soon if wife wants him to stick around or not...

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app