Depressed by it All!

[Pilotman]

Hi All

I am in the UK, still working full time at 65. The plan is to retire in Thailand [around Udon ] in around 3 years time. Money will not be a visa issue, as I will be able to meet both requirements for bank balance and income, but I have spent a lot of time reading all of your issues/problems/experiences, over the last year or two and I find the whole process quite depressing as a prospect and it is rather blighting my anticipation of a comfortable retirement.

I want to be able to relax and enjoy my last years in comfort and not sitting there worrying about process and procedure, the next trip to the Immigration Office, the next request to the British Embassy etc! My question is; is it as daunting as it sounds? How amenable is the British Embassy in producing the letters required to prove income? Will I spend hours in queues at the local Immigration Office just to get a negative response when I get to the Officer and have a fight on my hands every 60 days or whatever? I can imagine getting my visa renewed and then spending the next 60 or 90 days worrying about the next renewal. I don't want to live my life like that, as I'm not usually the worrying type.

In considering all of this, I have been preparing my Thai wife for the alternative of Penang and a Malaysian Retirement Visa, the requirements for which are much easier to meet than in Thailand, with the added advantage of being able to own property and businesses in my own name, not a big issue but one that is there and available. So long as my wife is within a couple of hours flying time of her family and Papaya Salad, she is not too fussed where we live. I would still like it to be Thailand, so am I being over anxious?

This is a really serious question for me, so the views of how this plays out in reality, from some of you that are already doing it, will be much appreciated.

[Sceptict11]

Can only relate my on experience having lived here (not Udon) for many years.

Never had any problems with securing "income letters" from the British Embassy or with Thai Immigration ( extension of stay/90 address reporting)

I suspect my experience is not unique !

NB the Malaysian option is expensive !

[stiggy]

Depends how you look at it.

In terms of visa's etc and running a business it can be a pain.

However your retiring look at it as a game, your part time job if you like.

Turn your reporting trips into a day or two out. End of the day your an expat in sunny climes it's never easy to set up initially.

[Phuket electrician]

A friend of similar age has been here for a while and is well respected and received at immigration. Every time he goes there he offers them some 'tea' which is well received. As any guest does when entering another's domain.

Some people refuse to play this game and as such report various issues they have to suffer. My friend never has a problem, even when there is one. As I say the immigration guys appreciate his understanding and as such reciprocate.

This is Thailand, it may not in reality be the land of smile. But as a guest one is required to buy into this perception and will do well to avoid pointing out it's failings.

Thailand is like a beautiful receptive woman that expects to be treated with respect and welcomes those that understand the nature of the relationship. In short give her all she demands and she won't make any trouble for you.

[ubonjoe]

There is nothing to do every 90 days other than submit a report of your address and it can be done by mail.

I have never seen any report of somebody having problem getting an income letter from the UK embassy.. Plus it can be done by mail.

Getting your annual extensions should not ever be a problem. As long as you have correct documents there should never be a problem.

[p_brownstone]

A friend of similar age has been here for a while and is well respected and received at immigration. Every time he goes there he offers them some 'tea' which is well received.

Your friend is not "well respected and received at Immigration" - he is seen as an easy Mark and secretly despised as such.

Thai Immigration Regulations are well known, written in Law and Royal Decree, if one meets the requirements there is absolutely no need to bribe or pay "Tea" money.

Patrick

[lopburi3]

As said there is no need for any tea to be involved. As long as you are polite and have the paperwork (or get if missing) there should not be any issues. It is a simple trip once a year but you have to get the financials. As for the 90 day reporting you can arrange that as a shopping trip or in most places do by mail or have someone do for you.

[Chicog]

A friend of mine started earlier this year, get the list of stuff from your local Thai embassy, go to Thailand on a tourist visa and give it to one of many local lawyers/visa agents to take care of; they will also do your reporting for you.

Cost is probably Bt3,000 a year in total or thereabouts.

If money isn't your issue, that is a small price to pay to not have to mix with the great unwashed for valuable hours or even days of your twilight years.

[Sceptict11]

p_brownstone

Some love to talk/write about "tea money"

In all my time here I have NEVER been asked for nor have I paid "tea money"

Are these stories just an urban myth ?

[partington]

You are getting an unbalanced idea of how common difficulties are, because people mostly post here when they have a problem, understandably enough, because they want help and a solution.

If you can meet both income and bank balance requirements you should have no problem whatsoever.

I obtained an O-visa and have extended my stay by a year twice now, using the bank balance method, without a hitch, and each extension took a single 2 hour visit to immigration. Providing you have the correct documents, and know what you are doing, there should be no difficulty. Everything you need to know and do can be found by searching this site.

The British Embassy are completely familiar with the requirements for income verification letters, and charge you for doing them, so as long as you have the right documentary evidence to show them, again no problem at all.

You have to report your address every 90 days. This means filling in a form with your address on it , going with your passport to an office, and handing it in, and waiting about ten minutes. That's it. You are not asking to stay longer by doing this so no worry is involved. You will already have your extension valid for one year before you need to do 90-day reports.

While every immigration office is different , and all my experience is with the very straightforward and efficient one in Bangkok, there is no reason to be apprehensive, as long as you actually do meet all the requirements.

Thailand is an incredibly easy country for a non-citizen to move to and stay in, compared to the EEC and the US, for example.

EDIT: just wondering why you call the Malaysian retirement visa program easier than the Thai? Don't you need more money deposited/income?

Edited September 24, 2013 by partington

[somtampet]

I have lived in Thailand 10 years after retiring at 50.I chose the multi o route due to making me go home every 15 months.I do a 90 day visa run thru a visa company and do nothing other than turn up.Met a few decent guys and 8 hours out of my life every 3 months is nothing.

Sounds liek u will be having a retirement visa so even less hassle mate.

Some members like to bull it up here,saying how difficult it is to live in Thailand, ITS NOT

The only hassle i see is having a business ,ie, a beer bar,then u deserve everything coming your way hehehehehe,only joking,but living here with no business is better.

My suggestion is to rent a place in Udon for 6 months,get a multi o from uk,do your 90 day visa runs,easy to Vientienne from Udon and see how u feel

[Kudel]

There is nothing to do every 90 days other than submit a report of your address and it can be done by mail.

I have never seen any report of somebody having problem getting an income letter from the UK embassy.. Plus it can be done by mail.

Getting your annual extensions should not ever be a problem. As long as you have correct documents there should never be a problem.

So if a pensioner is starting to suffer from lets say dementia ,how is this problem to be handled seing as most of the people here can or cant trust there loving thai family.

[Jingthing]

Thailand has a pretty easy retirement visa policy but it is very conditional, one year at a time with NO PATH whatsoever to any increase in residence status EVER. Also, that is not likely to change.

So for those seeking more residence security in retirement, indeed PERMANENT RESIDENCE and even the option for citizenship -- there are some other options in the world that do offer that. Perhaps the best program for that is ECUADOR.

In case your are skeptical, when applying for expat retirement status in Ecuador it is an IMMIGRANT visa, not a non-immigrant one.

In my view, people considering retirement in Thailand are very wise to examine the pros and the cons, and the lack of long term residence security here is definitely a con.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Jingthing

[chrisinth]

@ Pilotman, just a quick question about your OP where you state:

"Money will not be a visa issue, as I will be able to meet both requirements for bank balance and income".

I am not sure what you mean by that. If you are retiring and have a bank balance of 800,000 baht or more in a Thai bank for more than 2 months, then you meet the financial requirements. If you have an income of the equivalent of 65,000 baht a month, then you meet the financial requirement.

You do not need both.

At least that is my understanding. Perhaps one of the gurus can correct me if I am wrong, and if I am, my sincere apologies.

[Sceptict11]

You are getting an unbalanced idea of how common difficulties are, because people mostly post here when they have a problem, understandably enough, because they want help and a solution.

If you can meet both income and bank balance requirements you should have no problem whatsoever.

I obtained an O-visa and have extended my stay by a year twice now, using the bank balance method, without a hitch, and each extension took a single 2 hour visit to immigration. Providing you have the correct documents, and know what you are doing, there should be no difficulty. Everything you need to know and do can be found by searching this site.

The British Embassy are completely familiar with the requirements for income verification letters, and charge you for doing them, so as long as you have the right documentary evidence to show them, again no problem at all.

You have to report your address every 90 days. This means filling in a form with your address on it , going with your passport to an office, and handing it in, and waiting about ten minutes. That's it. You are not asking to stay longer by doing this so no worry is involved. You will already have your extension valid for one year before you need to do 90-day reports.

While every immigration office is different , and all my experience is with the very straightforward and efficient one in Bangkok, there is no reason to be apprehensive, as long as you actually do meet all the requirements.

Thailand is an incredibly easy country for a non-citizen to move to and stay in, compared to the EEC and the US, for example.

EDIT: just wondering why you call the Malaysian retirement visa program easier than the Thai? Don't you need more money deposited/income?

Here is the Malaysian "My Second Home Project"

http://www.mm2h.gov.my/conditions.php

Individuals can make their own judgement

[lopburi3]

He means he can meet either requirement was my reading - he will have more than 800k in cash and a pension of more than 65k per month.

[T_Dog]

Pilotman... You are currently working 40 hours a week every week. Don't fret spending part of a day preparing for and (at worst case) a full day at immigration to renew your future visa. Even with the 90 day reports, I doubt you will have to "work" much more than 20 hours PER YEAR to get it all done! You'll have lots of time to enjoy life.

[Sceptict11]

He means he can meet either requirement was my reading - he will have more than 800k in cash and a pension of more than 65k per month.

The OP would need approx 95,000bht/month + money in the bank to retire Malaysia

[Sheryl]

You only have to "renew" (extend, actually) once a year, not every 3 months. Every 3 months (90 days) is just submission of a half page form attesting to your address, which you can do by registered mail.

As to how much hassle the yearly extension of stay is, depends on the immigration office, those in big cities being worse due to heavy workload.

even at the worse immigration offices (which it sounds like Udon is not), the visa bit is perfectly manageable as long as you make sure to have all your things in order. What I would worry about though at age 65 is health insurance. Foreigners are not eligible for free health care in public hospitals here and you will find it difficult and expensive to get insured at that age. Do not, however, consider coming here uninsured. If you cannot get insurance then "self insure" for not less than 5 million baht.

Also may need to take steps to avoid becoming ineligible under the NHS in the UK as a result of living abroad.

[Paul888]

There is really no point worrying now about requirements for a retirement in 3 years time.

A lot can happen between now and then, not least we should be in ASEAN times and who knows what joy that will bring.

[fiberman]

You only have to "renew" (extend, actually) once a year, not every 3 months. Every 3 months (90 days) is just submission of a half page form attesting to your address, which you can do by registered mail.

As to how much hassle the yearly extension of stay is, depends on the immigration office, those in big cities being worse due to heavy workload.

even at the worse immigration offices (which it sounds like Udon is not), the visa bit is perfectly manageable as long as you make sure to have all your things in order. What I would worry about though at age 65 is health insurance. Foreigners are not eligible for free health care in public hospitals here and you will find it difficult and expensive to get insured at that age. Do not, however, consider coming here uninsured. If you cannot get insurance then "self insure" for not less than 5 million baht.

Also may need to take steps to avoid becoming ineligible under the NHS in the UK as a result of living abroad.

There is a bill I believe about to go through parliament which will give expats with 10 years or more NI stamps the right to use the NHS. Of course you still have to get back to the UK first!!

[Loptr]

A friend of mine started earlier this year, get the list of stuff from your local Thai embassy, go to Thailand on a tourist visa and give it to one of many local lawyers/visa agents to take care of; they will also do your reporting for you.

Cost is probably Bt3,000 a year in total or thereabouts.

If money isn't your issue, that is a small price to pay to not have to mix with the great unwashed for valuable hours or even days of your twilight years.

+1. I hate standing in queues too. Worth the 3K baht per year to have someone else do it for me, plus they screen what you are presenting to immigration, so no surprises.

[Pilotman]

Many thanks everyone, very useful and comforting. In answer to one question; I do realise in terms of 'in the bank' or 'income' that you only need to meet one, not both criteria. The comment by Paul888 is well made; 3 years is a long time anywhere, never mind in Thailand.

[thaigold]

Thailand has a pretty easy retirement visa policy but it is very conditional, one year at a time with NO PATH whatsoever to any increase in residence status EVER. Also, that is not likely to change.

So for those seeking more residence security in retirement, indeed PERMANENT RESIDENCE and even the option for citizenship -- there are some other options in the world that do offer that. Perhaps the best program for that is ECUADOR.

In case your are skeptical, when applying for expat retirement status in Ecuador it is an IMMIGRANT visa, not a non-immigrant one.

In my view, people considering retirement in Thailand are very wise to examine the pros and the cons, and the lack of long term residence security here is definitely a con.

Excellent post. Long term is always a concern...but the advantages outweigh the concerns.

[Suradit69]

A friend of similar age has been here for a while and is well respected and received at immigration. Every time he goes there he offers them some 'tea' which is well received.

Your friend is not "well respected and received at Immigration" - he is seen as an easy Mark and secretly despised as such.

Thai Immigration Regulations are well known, written in Law and Royal Decree, if one meets the requirements there is absolutely no need to bribe or pay "Tea" money.

Patrick

To the O/P: As someone else said, people who have problems post them here, so it seems they are fairly typical. But the 90% (or how ever many it would be) who have no problems are less likely to post anything about their experiences. If you have the finances to meet the requirements and are even moderately well organized, there's no reason to worry about the hassle. Most people who have problems create the difficulties for themselves and I imagine they'd be equally clueless wherever they manage to settle.

Re: the tea money comment. Phuket electrician thinks he's a comedian. He's the same one who wrote a post about going into a shop everyday for 10 years and asking the price for a bottle of beer, leaving and then having his Thai friend go in to buy the same beer for him at 10 baht less or whatever. He assumes that posting childish nonsense is the epitome of humor.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Suradit69

[maanoi]

Just remeber the money requirements change over time. Sure you may qualify now, but in 15-20yrs they could well be double what they are now. Pretty sure theres a lot of members here who remeber when you only needed 200k in the bank.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[OMGImInPattaya]

Thailand has a pretty easy retirement visa policy but it is very conditional, one year at a time with NO PATH whatsoever to any increase in residence status EVER. Also, that is not likely to change.

So for those seeking more residence security in retirement, indeed PERMANENT RESIDENCE and even the option for citizenship -- there are some other options in the world that do offer that. Perhaps the best program for that is ECUADOR.

In case your are skeptical, when applying for expat retirement status in Ecuador it is an IMMIGRANT visa, not a non-immigrant one.

In my view, people considering retirement in Thailand are very wise to examine the pros and the cons, and the lack of long term residence security here is definitely a con.

Agree...but in practice, has there ever been a case where a foreigner who met the financial requirements for their visa extension category and who hasn't committed a crime being denied an extension?

Of course, some government could unilaterally declare all foreigners persona non grata or raise the financial requirements to burdensome levels but how likely is either of those scenarios? I'd say close to zero.

[darrendsd]

A friend of similar age has been here for a while and is well respected and received at immigration. Every time he goes there he offers them some 'tea' which is well received. As any guest does when entering another's domain.

Some people refuse to play this game and as such report various issues they have to suffer. My friend never has a problem, even when there is one. As I say the immigration guys appreciate his understanding and as such reciprocate.

This is Thailand, it may not in reality be the land of smile. But as a guest one is required to buy into this perception and will do well to avoid pointing out it's failings.

Thailand is like a beautiful receptive woman that expects to be treated with respect and welcomes those that understand the nature of the relationship. In short give her all she demands and she won't make any trouble for you.

Oh dear if you think your friend is well respected because he pays Tea money then you are sadly mistaken

What exactly does he pay this money for anyway?

Not sure about your "guest entering anothers domain" comment either? Are you saying it is standard procedure to pay Tea money when entering an Official office?

Thais laugh at mugs like you and your friend, they don't respect you and your actions in paying this money make it harder for the rest of us

[Mario2008]

1 post removed for making generalisations about a nationality.

[Baerboxer]

p_brownstone

Some love to talk/write about "tea money"

In all my time here I have NEVER been asked for nor have I paid "tea money"

Are these stories just an urban myth ?

Sadly not myth. Immigration asked me if I wanted to wait the normal 30 days consideration for an extension of stay based on marriage or would I like to pay a little extra for the "express" 3 day service!

That was a few years ago and seniors have changed several times since then. Never been asked for anything since. Much more professional now.