neutered dogs - are they less aggressive

[john fogerty]

Please help me out here folks.

This is a serious question from a genuine dog owner/lover and I would appreciate genuine replies from likeminded people ONLY please.

Just before Xmas last year, one of our two male dogs went missing. This week he has been found and is back living with us. Obviously he's been living rough and has lost a bit of weight and has a few battle scars but otherwise he's fine. The problem is that he, and our other dog ( a jack russell) now keep growling at each other which is strange as they were the best of mates before he went missing. It appears to be a dominance thing although the Jack Russell always seemed to be the boss. My question is this. Would speying/ neutering ( whatever it's called) make the dogs less aggressive towards each other. Obviously I don't want them to lose all their aggression as it can be a good deterrent if any unwanted people come to the gate. If anybody has dogs and has faced a similar situation I would very much appreciate your reply.

[CharlieH]

Whilst neutering a dog can calm them down, it wont in my opinion sort your problem. This is more a territory living together issue based on dominence. The returning dog has had to fight to survive and the resident dog has had his own way for some time. They need to either work it out themselves as to which will be Alpha male, or you may need to teach them to live together and aggresion towards each other wont be tolerated, takes time and patience.

[David48]

The Farm dogs, both of them work as a pack ... they only growl when there is food involved.

Hence no issues if you handle it appropriately.

When do your dogs growl?

[john fogerty]

David48

They growl whenever they see each other

[meatboy]

i bet you were overjoyed to have him back,now one thing i would do first if its not already been done,get your vet to check him over,when we had our dog he had become to big and as the owner had to work away her relatives couldnt look after him,they had chickens. he had got loose for weeks before we had him and was found running with a pack,he had caught a decease from a bitch and he was close to death on the vets scale of 1-8 he was 7 he had to put him on a drip.he was an handfull and still is,we had him neutered [posted in this forum] and it done him the world of good and the wf's legs aswell.we also have our nieghbours dog here for dinner and the evenings and he was agresive to him mind you ours is 25kilo's[18 when he came] and our little freind is only 3-4 hes a miniature so we had to watch them all the time,but they are the best of freinds now.he was 2yrs old when we had him done,he is only aggresive to strange dogs but i never let him off the lead outside.

[villagefarang]

We have had all our animals fixed, 4 dogs and a cat. It is not a cure all but unless you are a breeder I can’t see a reason not to. Go ahead and have your dogs fixed. Ours are still territorial and bark at anyone or anything entering their space.

[Sheryl]

Agree with those who don't think neutering will solve the issue between the 2 dogs, which sounds territorial (and will likely sort itself out over time...basically while the one dog was away the other dog "claimed" the whole territory).

However neutering will definitely reduce the roaming away from home and help prevent the sort of incident you just had, and generally keep them healthier and safer. So very advisable.

Also -- bathe the returned dog daily for a while, may help to remove scents of other dogs he may have picked up on his travels which may be aggravating the situation.

[isanbirder]

Agree with those who don't think neutering will solve the issue between the 2 dogs, which sounds territorial (and will likely sort itself out over time...basically while the one dog was away the other dog "claimed" the whole territory).

However neutering will definitely reduce the roaming away from home and help prevent the sort of incident you just had, and generally keep them healthier and safer. So very advisable.

Also -- bathe the returned dog daily for a while, may help to remove scents of other dogs he may have picked up on his travels which may be aggravating the situation.

I think this is precisely right. OP doesn't say what breed the returnee is, but it sounds as if he doesn't "recognise" the Jack Russell as "his" dog.

I've had recently a rather comic instance of this between two female toy poodles, mother and daughter. The mother went off for a few hours to be groomed, and the beauty parlour used some kind of scent spray to make her smell nice. On her return, the daughter quite obviously didn't recognise her, and is still quite aggressive towards her three weeks later. This is now changing back into "aggression-play".

Your two dogs, OP, will gradually settle down, though occasional shows of aggression may continue for some time.

[john fogerty]

Thank you all very much for your advice. Much appreciated

Isanbirder - it's a Thai dog

[villagefarang]

It is so refreshing when posters say thank you.

[EveryDayTheSame]

If i cut off YOUR balls, would YOU be less aggressive??

[yimlitnoy]

The always happy dog we have in our building entrance has been castrated and now he looks so sad, so sad, so sad... he now lays down and only move his eyes when we talked to him.

[David48]

The always happy dog we have in our building entrance has been castrated and now he looks so sad, so sad, so sad... he now lays down and only move his eyes when we talked to him.

Have seen that myself.

His 'get up and go' - 'got up and left'

[bifftastic]

We've had three of our four dogs 'done' (two bitches spayed, one dog castrated). Another issue that you might consider, is that by getting them done, you reduce the chances of adding to the stray dog population in your local area. Obviously this applies more to dogs than bitches

Our first bitch has had one litter of five puppies already. She's quite small and the father was obviously considerable larger then her. After the pups were born, she suffered quite a lot as she was unable to produce enough milk for them. We kept two and found homes for the others

The dog we've had done, is now less inclined to go out and about scrapping for his place in the hierarchy of the local dog up and down the soi. Doesn't get involved in any fighting over bitches in heat etc.

It hasn't done anything to his moods, he seems just as happy as he was before.

As a slight aside, when the bitch who has had a litter already was being spayed, the vet found that she had cancer in her womb, so removed it all. That was only a few days ago so it's early days yet. Hopefully she will recover completely.

But yes, I would recommend getting your dogs neutered, unless you want pups of course

[Crazy chef 1]

dogs are quiet hierarchical animals.find out who pretend to be the alpha and treat them acordingly .alpha has to be greeted first,get his food first,can lay closer to you,got more attention.after a time you can try to dilute this system step for step but it takes time.had huge problems with our bullterrrier and our pit pull.i followed those rules and we are living now without any fight more than 6 months.neutering is a good thing if done early before the dog turned 6-8 months afterwards me think its not a solution or will help a lot.pm me if youwant to get more detailed advise.

[chrisinth]

@ John................

My advice would be back to basics with both the dogs, IMO neutering will not sort out the problem between them although some people will disagree with that.

You have had a dog missing for 9 months and they have both forgotten each other. You have to re-introduce them and then let them sort out the pack order. Get them both on leads (even if you haven't done this before), take control and have them walking with you together. If possible, get them playing together and let them exert energy together.

You may be surprised how fast this will work, but the main thing is you asserting the control. Don't let either one establish dominance before you have got them co-existing.

We have two Siberians, one three months older than the other. When the second appeared on the scene (even though they were both pups at the time) we could see the ply for the alpha position. Letting them work as a team works wonders. That said, the bitch appears dominant indoors while the dog takes the lead role while out if there are any confrontations. Bit like real life really, who says dogs are that different.................

[bra]

If i cut off YOUR balls, would YOU be less aggressive??

Probably - but it would also stop me wandering looking for females at all hours of the day and night - just like it does for dogs.

[Joe Mamma]

If i cut off YOUR balls, would YOU be less aggressive??

My wife is on a nibbling campaign, trying to chip away at them, but it only seems to make then grow, go figure.

[Cuban]

I echo the whole retraining side of things mentioned above, whichever is the dominate dog you need to assess and re-enforce with first for food, first for praise etc as mentioned.

De-sexing (spaying = remove lady bits / neutering = removal of boy bits) although the word neutering is generally accepted as a generic term in English speaking countries, will have the effect that when a bitch is in heat somewhere up-wind of your dogs they will be less likely to automatically fight each other to establish the 'right' to attempt to 'breed'.

So although neutering does not magically solve the need for each dog to establish their place as alpha it does remove one cause of fighting.

Whichever is to be the dominate dog (there must be one - any ideas you have about a shared leadership is wrong, will not work and not a viable option from either dog's point of view) should always lead the walk (be alongside you, if you are the house master) should be fed first (bowl put down - allowed to start - then the second bowl given).

Games should take place with the alpha dog first, then swapped over as I doubt three way games would work initially.

You have had a dog missing for 9 months and they have both forgotten each other. You have to re-introduce them and then let them sort out the pack order.

I doubt that either dog has forgotten each other, the incumbent probably was the Beta dog and became elevated to house Alpha when the other went walkabout.

There will be a smell difference as the returning dog will have been eating what it can for 9 months and diet affects a dog's base smell.

So although I do not support frequent shampoos for dogs, in this case normalising their smell with whatever you use would be wise.

But the main thing is establishing you as leader, then the Alpha then the Beta, it the natural order of a pack and dogs understand this - trying to do different just causes problems.

A weak dog can not be an Alpha.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Cuban

[Dogbreath]

I think it is wise to neuter all dogs unless you are going to breed them. I say this as a professional dog trainer with years of experience. Neutering alone, however, will not sort your problem. 99% of the time it's about leadership and communication when dogs in your house aren't getting along. You need to be the leader. You demonstrate that through voice tones, body language and corrections. You never need to hit or get physical with the dogs to do this. Dogs have their own system of communication which establishes who is the boss. That needs to be you. If you are interested, send me a message and I can give you some basics which, if followed, will return peace to your pack. No charge.

[Mousehound]

The answer is yes it will but not for a few months at least. When we wanted to retire a male from a breeding programme and bring into the house as a family pet we would have it neutered and then wait a few weeks to see how things were going. We had to have a vet's help with medication once just to speed things along but all went well in every case.

[ataloss]

Why not bathe them both, so their natural smells are brought more in line with one another.

Unless you want heartache, vet costs for stitching up attack wounds, and suffering dogs; I'd invest in two muzzles in the interim until peace is achieved.

As for #14, your pets should not be allowed to go out and about: they can easily return with ticks, pick up terrible debilitating and costly-to-cure diseases,get into fights, or worse - be picked up to be served as dinner in Laos/Vietnam(and SanPatong CMai) - a truly horrific, extended, slow death being skinned alive, and then par-boiled alive having been beaten almost senseless.

Edited September 30, 2013 by ataloss

[villagefarang]

While I understand the desire for definitive answers, in my experience all dogs are different and there is no guarantee that what works with one will work the same way with another.

Our three male dogs all responded differently to being fixed. The alpha still has some muscle memory and has a go with the girls even though he is shooting blanks. Recently we had a dozen males fighting over and raping the one female in heat on our driveway every night. Seeing that is enough to convince anyone to have their dogs fixed, in my opinion.

Though our alpha would go have a sniff from time to time, and the other two might go with him as body guards, they would soon lose interest and were happy to sleep on their end of the driveway near the house as long as the others stayed on the far end, (its a long driveway). Before, the alpha would come home looking half dead after several days away chasing the girls.

With the right triggers, some dogs will always have disagreements. Sometimes when they are alone they will sort things out with no real problems, but when the owner or food shows up things can change.

I enjoy watching our dogs interact with the other packs and individuals in our village. There can be a lot of noise but I have yet to see any real damage. They have their own way of doing things and sometimes we just make things worse by getting in the middle.

Still, it is a lot easier on the girls, if you fix the boys.

Edited September 30, 2013 by villagefarang

[chrisinth]

I echo the whole retraining side of things mentioned above, whichever is the dominate dog you need to assess and re-enforce with first for food, first for praise etc as mentioned.

De-sexing (spaying = remove lady bits / neutering = removal of boy bits) although the word neutering is generally accepted as a generic term in English speaking countries, will have the effect that when a bitch is in heat somewhere up-wind of your dogs they will be less likely to automatically fight each other to establish the 'right' to attempt to 'breed'.

So although neutering does not magically solve the need for each dog to establish their place as alpha it does remove one cause of fighting.

Whichever is to be the dominate dog (there must be one - any ideas you have about a shared leadership is wrong, will not work and not a viable option from either dog's point of view) should always lead the walk (be alongside you, if you are the house master) should be fed first (bowl put down - allowed to start - then the second bowl given).

Games should take place with the alpha dog first, then swapped over as I doubt three way games would work initially.

You have had a dog missing for 9 months and they have both forgotten each other. You have to re-introduce them and then let them sort out the pack order.

I doubt that either dog has forgotten each other, the incumbent probably was the Beta dog and became elevated to house Alpha when the other went walkabout.

There will be a smell difference as the returning dog will have been eating what it can for 9 months and diet affects a dog's base smell.

So although I do not support frequent shampoos for dogs, in this case normalising their smell with whatever you use would be wise.

But the main thing is establishing you as leader, then the Alpha then the Beta, it the natural order of a pack and dogs understand this - trying to do different just causes problems.

A weak dog can not be an Alpha.

Extremely sensible post Cuban, agree with all the points.

One point I would like to add for the OP is that as the dog has been 'in the rough' for so long, a visit to the vet (if not done already) would be in order to rule out any nasty stuff it may have picked up. Although Parvo normally doesn't affect older healthy dogs, it is still a possibility along with all the normal suspects like heartworm, etc.

Well worth the visit for the wet-work if only for piece of mind.

[KnooKie]

I've moved back to the UK now but according to my dog behavioural specialst who is a fully qualified expert neutering in some cases can make the dog more aggressive particularly if the dog has a tendency to bite already or aggressive tendencies.

[statman78]

We have 2 small, male dogs. After thet were about 2 years old they started tearing into each other, even drawing blood. We had them fixed about 2 years ago and now we have no trouble.

[Leung Falang]

We had a bit of fighting with our two dogs in the US and our vet did suggest it would help to neuter them. We did, and he was right although they would occasionally have a bit of fun with each other. We recently did the same here with one year old brothers, mutts, as our local Thai vet suggested. The vet also indicated to my Thai wife there were many other benefits as well although she did not elaborate them to me.

[Sheryl]

The main advantage (other than not bringing more unwanted puppies into the world) is that they will no longer roam far from home in search of a female, risking getting hit by cars and dangerous fights with other males in the area (which can get quite ferocious when there's a female in heat nearby).

The life expectancy for an unneutered male dog, unless you are able to keep him completely fenced in, is not very long. Not unlike many human males, they will do very foolish/risky things in pursuit of...you get the idea.

[Sheryl]

The always happy dog we have in our building entrance has been castrated and now he looks so sad, so sad, so sad... he now lays down and only move his eyes when we talked to him.

I had my dog castrated and he is very happy and playful. Couldn't be more so.

Happier than before, in fact...though to be fair that may be because as a Chihuahuas in a land of big Soi dogs, he was never successful in mating anyhow. Just unsuccessful quests and losing fights for the poor little fellow.

[bifftastic]

Why not bathe them both, so their natural smells are brought more in line with one another.

Unless you want heartache, vet costs for stitching up attack wounds, and suffering dogs; I'd invest in two muzzles in the interim until peace is achieved.

As for #14, your pets should not be allowed to go out and about: they can easily return with ticks, pick up terrible debilitating and costly-to-cure diseases,get into fights, or worse - be picked up to be served as dinner in Laos/Vietnam(and SanPatong CMai) - a truly horrific, extended, slow death being skinned alive, and then par-boiled alive having been beaten almost senseless.

Well, they are occasionally allowed out to play and socialise with the other dogs in our soi, who are all owned and cared for by the other people who live there.

I would say that they spend 95% of their time in our house and garden. They sometimes go round the corner to our sister's house with either myself or my wife. They also get baths in the river from time to time, and have a run up and down the river bank and a bit of a sniff around and a few mouthfuls of whatever grass/plants they like to chew on from time to time.

They regularly get checked for parasites (at least once every couple of days) and treated for fleas/lice etc. They're never out of our sight for long and have a happy existence, but thanks for your concern.

Yours, #14