US government shuts down as Congress misses deadline

[Scott]

Betty at Customer Service is temporarily not working. She will be back when the shut-down is over.

In the meantime, please stay on topic.

[F430murci]

Perhaps there is hope. Problem is the outliers yell the loudest and get all of the attention . . .

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The New American Center: Why our nation isn't as divided as we think

Just because Washington is polarized doesnt mean America is, says Robert Blizzard, a partner at Public Opinion Strategies, the lead pollster for Mitt Romney in 2012. His firm co-created the survey with the Benenson Strategy Group, pollsters for President Obama, and the result is a nation in eight distinct segments: two on the far right, two on the far left, and four in the middle that represent nothing less than a new American center.

The people of the center are patriotic and proud, with a strong majority (66 percent) saying that America is still the greatest country in the world, and most (54 percent) calling it a model that other countries should emulate. But the center is also very nervous about the future, overwhelmingly saying that America can no longer afford to spend money on foreign aid (81 percent) when we need to build up our own country.

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/15/20960588-the-new-american-center-why-our-nation-isnt-as-divided-as-we-think?lite

[MaxYakov]

Edited by SinglePot.

Fifth amendment.

Cheers

Darn! I thought it was this:

Don't worry Max. NSA have all the details.

Contact Betty at NSA customer services dept.

But I have it on a higher authority (higher than even the NSA) that she won't be available until after the "shut-down".

Edited October 15, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Publicus]

This is why the Republicans in Congress have spent the past several days working out the exact and specific terms of their surrender.

This is what happens when one of the two major political parties of the United States takes to behaving like aliens from space have taken over their minds and bodies.

Every scientific survey poll taken since the Republicans shut down the government has showed the huge mass of the body politic blames the Republicans for it and disagree with the Republicans' handling of the budget issues, to include trying to defund ObamaCare, and disapprove of the Republicans' every action in this debacle.

The Constitution proscribes a system of checks and balances predicated on reasonable people compromising. Attempted extortion by ideological extremists is not anywhere to be found in the document.

Republican disapproval grows in budget battle, Post-ABC poll finds

A new high of 74 percent of Americans disapprove of the way the Republicans in Congress are handling Washington’s budget crisis, up significantly in the past two weeks and far exceeding disapproval of both President Obama and congressional Democrats on the issue.

The latest ABC News/Washington Post poll finds that criticism of the GOP’s handling of the budget dispute has grown by 11 percentage points since just before the partial government shutdown began, from 63 to 70 and now 74 percent – clearly leaving the party with the lion’s share of blame.

By contrast, 53 percent disapprove of Obama’s work on the issue, essentially flat since the crisis came to a head and a broad 21 points lower than disapproval of the Republicans.

See PDF with full results, charts and tables here.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/10/disapproval-of-gop-peaks-in-blame-for-the-budget-crisis/

[lannarebirth]

Skin tags and heart attacks. Nice one JT.

Any chance of any perspective from somewhere I wonder?

Cos all the time the US is fighting amongst itself the true enemies of America are rubbing their hands and laughing.

Where is JFK and MLK now when the US needs solidarity.

Jeez.

solidarity? because JFK and MLK were such unifying figures? bloody hell mate.

the modern-day version of those two, or at least the closest there's likely to be, is in the whitehouse. he's trying to end america's obsession with wars halfway across the world by pulling troops out, trying to give 45 million americans access to some degree of affordable healthcare and spending most days shitting himself about being assassinated.

something else he has in common with JFK and MLK of course.

Do you vote? I ask, because I'm wondering if you're what they call one of those "low information voters". You claim Obama is trying to end America's obsession with wars, but the truth is that it is Obama's obsession with war is what caused Americans to finally say "ENOUGH!!!"

http://www.businessinsider.com/syria-obama-war-intervention-2013-9

[Baloo22]

Seems like there are a few posters round here like Yakov, baloo22, and Antfish who want "Republican Anarchy."

I'm still trying to get my head around this. I can't make it work though with the image of upstanding men with starched white collars holding bibles.

More tea vicar?

It's more like we want our country to have a sane fiscal policy that stops the uncontrolled debt-fueled spending of Obama and the Democrats.

It's more like we want a president that has at least some integrity and character. Our current president has zero integrity and zero character.

He has his henchmen send out Park Police to setup Barrycades and deny our veterans access to their memorials Then, with his usual lack of integrity, allows a politically-affiliated group allied with him and his cronies to use federal facilities. Typical Obama.

I'm still trying to get my head around this.

I suspect that you have that trouble a lot!

[Publicus]

This is pretty tough talk but, in my judgement, justifiable and justly deserving, at least in its sentiment.

Indeed, the reputable scientific polling data tell us the US body politic put the blame squarely on the Republican party for the shutdown and the tempest over the debt ceiling which threatens the full faith and credit of the United States and, does indeed, threaten the US dollar's status and the global currency to include its position as the world's reserve currency.

The Republicans in Washington and in the tea party don't care. They are in their own little - really small and localized - world, set apart from reality.

China Calls For a ‘De-Americanised’ World Thanks to GOP Shutdown & Default Threat

This must be what conservatives mean by “USA! USA! USA!” Kill the exceptionalism, violate the Constitutional mandate to pay our debt, and turn America into an international joke, causing America to lose its world standing even when W isn’t in office.

This is WINNING, Tea Party style.

This country had better get a handle on these Republicans, or they are going to do what Al-Qaeda never managed to do to the US.

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/10/13/republican-shutdown-default-empowers-china-call-de-americanised-world.html

Oh like we really care what China thinks. How many quotes of yours (and mine) shall I paste in here about what a loser China is? China is nothing but wishful thinking, if even that.

We agree that China ain't shit, so why quote them?

You may not have noticed the focus of the news article is the lunatic Republicans in Congress and their Plan 9 From Outer Space schemes.

[wilcopops]

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i161/Steve__55/1381317_10201051503395139_1896912638_n_zps2ae37ed9.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i161/Steve__55/1381317_10201051503395139_1896912638_n_zps2ae37ed9.jpg

[bigbamboo]

I guess it must be difficult for Americans to post anything critical of Thai politicians just now.

There was an interesting poll on CNN revealing that two thirds of Americans would get rid of every senator and congressman and even Mr. President himself if they had a referendum on it now so sick are they of their shenanigans.

[Baloo22]

This is why the Republicans in Congress have spent the past several days working out the exact and specific terms of their surrender.

This is what happens when one of the two major political parties of the United States takes to behaving like aliens from space have taken over their minds and bodies.

Every scientific survey poll taken since the Republicans shut down the government has showed the huge mass of the body politic blames the Republicans for it and disagree with the Republicans' handling of the budget issues, to include trying to defund ObamaCare, and disapprove of the Republicans' every action in this debacle.

The Constitution proscribes a system of checks and balances predicated on reasonable people compromising. Attempted extortion by ideological extremists is not anywhere to be found in the document.

Republican disapproval grows in budget battle, Post-ABC poll finds

A new high of 74 percent of Americans disapprove of the way the Republicans in Congress are handling Washington’s budget crisis, up significantly in the past two weeks and far exceeding disapproval of both President Obama and congressional Democrats on the issue.

The latest ABC News/Washington Post poll finds that criticism of the GOP’s handling of the budget dispute has grown by 11 percentage points since just before the partial government shutdown began, from 63 to 70 and now 74 percent – clearly leaving the party with the lion’s share of blame.

By contrast, 53 percent disapprove of Obama’s work on the issue, essentially flat since the crisis came to a head and a broad 21 points lower than disapproval of the Republicans.

See PDF with full results, charts and tables here.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/10/disapproval-of-gop-peaks-in-blame-for-the-budget-crisis/

How is your poll and blather about it going to help my grandchildren pay off the massive and growing federal debt.

The debt getting worse and worse with the continuous out-of-control deficit spending by Obama and the Democrats. They have no such thing as self-control or fiscal discipline. And they continually whine for Congress to raise their own credit limit. A certain recipe for fiscal disaster!

Adults do need to make the decision to cut up the credit card! Adults! That rules out Obama and the Democrats.

[Publicus]

Seems like there are a few posters round here like Yakov, baloo22, and Antfish who want "Republican Anarchy."

I'm still trying to get my head around this. I can't make it work though with the image of upstanding men with starched white collars holding bibles.

More tea vicar?

It's more like we want our country to have a sane fiscal policy that stops the uncontrolled debt-fueled spending of Obama and the Democrats.

It's more like we want a president that has at least some integrity and character. Our current president has zero integrity and zero character.

He has his henchmen send out Park Police to setup Barrycades and deny our veterans access to their memorials Then, with his usual lack of integrity, allows a politically-affiliated group allied with him and his cronies to use federal facilities. Typical Obama.

I'm still trying to get my head around this.

I suspect that you have that trouble a lot!

The current high visibility, high profile debacle in Washington is a redefining political marker in the nation's history.

It clearly delineates that the Republican party has become the party of hard core ideologues who are astoundingly irresponsible and intransigent, and that the Democratic party has become the party of fiscal responsibility while seeking to balance fiscal realities with social responsibility.

While Republicans ignore or try to understate the financial markets' concern over debt default, Democrats are working day and night to avoid a disastrous default by the US Government. I mean, really, hearing Republicans talk about fiscal sanity just rings incredulously hollow, empty, meaningless, given their eagerness to close the government, keep it closed, and to embrace a debt default by the US Government.

Democrats have produced a program that controls health care costs, yet Republicans are so opposed to any change to the previous system of financial anarchy that they shut down the government to try to stop the Affordable Care Law. And, still, Prez Obama is getting the cold shoulder from Republicans in his efforts to responsibly slow the growth of entitlement spending in Social Security and Medicare; and, also, in the Medicaid program for low income working Americans.

It's irony that the Republicans in Washington are at long last talking with Prez Obama but are doing so only because they have to work out the terms of their surrender on the government shutdown, the defunding of ObamaCare, and raising the debt ceiling.

Republicans Aren't The 'Daddy Party' Anymore

For as long as I can remember, the Republicans were the serious daddy party, and the Democrats were the dirty hippie hysterical mommy party.

If Republicans were once the daddy party, now they're the abusive ex-husband with a substance abuse problem party.

Instead of telling hard truths, Republicans are wildly misleading voters, both about policy ("America is going to be destroyed by Obamacare") and political reality ("Democrats are feeling the heat" because Republicans shut down the government).

http://www.businessinsider.com/republicans-arent-the-daddy-party-anymore-2013-10

[Publicus]

I guess it must be difficult for Americans to post anything critical of Thai politicians just now.

There was an interesting poll on CNN revealing that two thirds of Americans would get rid of every senator and congressman and even Mr. President himself if they had a referendum on it now so sick are they of their shenanigans.

Thailand's "dark forces" preclude any such thinking in the former LOS.

[Scott]

There is getting to be a lot of rhetoric, but not much substance to the thread. If you have nothing to add, then feel free to stop posting.

Nonsensical troll posts will be deleted.

[chuckd]

It is my belief that the American people are rapidly coming to terms with the fact that Obamacare is very possibly the single worst legislation ever foisted on them.

With a Congressional election coming up in 2014 it will be interesting to see how Obamacare will impact that election. There will be one full year of experience on what it costs and what it's many drawbacks will be.

Let us hope the Republicans will not be afraid to mention during the many upcoming campaigns the fact that NOT ONE SINGLE Republican voted for the ACA.

Here are some headlines from the past two days...

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The disastrous ObamaCare exchanges are just the tip of the iceberg

http://news.yahoo.com/disastrous-obamacare-exchanges-just-tip-iceberg-060600225.html

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11,588,500 Words: Obamacare Regs 30x as Long as Law

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/11588500-words-obamacare-regs-30x-long-law

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obamacare website security called 'outrageous': How safe is it?

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2013/1014/Obamacare-website-security-called-outrageous-How-safe-is-it-video

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Patients Pay Before Seeing Doctor as Deductibles Spread

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-14/patients-pay-before-seeing-doctor-as-deductibles-spread.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exemptions pose another big hurdle for Obamacare

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/obamacare-exemptions-individual-mandate-98297.html?hp=l4

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unions poised to win delay of ObamaCare tax in budget deal

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/328459-labor-gets-obamacare-olive-branch-#ixzz2hnibpjcm

[boomerangutang]

The debt getting worse and worse with the continuous out-of-control deficit spending by Obama and the Democrats. They have no such thing as self-control or fiscal discipline. And they continually whine for Congress to raise their own credit limit. A certain recipe for fiscal disaster! Adults do need to make the decision to cut up the credit card! Adults! That rules out Obama and the Democrats.

I agree the borrowing and crazy spending by Uncle Sam has been outlandish - for decades. I'm a tree-hugging Green Party member, and I've been 100% debt free for decades. All presidents and congresses since before I was born have been debt junkies. They're a reflection of the American people, the majority of whom insist on getting hand-outs from the Fed feeding trough. In my view, the presidents in recent times, with the most spending restraint, were Carter and Clinton. Though I like Obama, I have to admit he's gotten sucked in to the mainstream way of thinking that borrowing and big spending is required, if one is a politician. Though I'm glad Romney and Ryan didn't win the recent vote, because (according to their pledges re; military spending, etc.) their spending excesses would be worse than Obama's.

Obama a modern-day version of either JFK or MLK? Time for a reality check!

JFK and MLK were uniters, not dividers. This president refuses to even negotiate with the other party.

Obama is negotiating in his way. He doesn't want to trash a program which was voted in to law, and survived a challenge in which the Supreme Court (which is quite conservative) voted in favor of it. If anyone should be chastised, it should be medical institutions which charge outlandish amounts (roughly 3x what Europe charges for medical procedures and drugs), and the American people, most of whom are grossly fat, sickly, drink tubs of alcohol & sugary crap, and eat badly.

[SinglePot]

Yep. Especially the old daddys.

Big demand on healthcare them guys.

Smiley bloke doing a wai.

[SinglePot]

BTW. It was me who introduced JFK and MLK into this thread in the naive attempt to demonstrate that unity behind a leader is a good thing for the US.

Little did I expect such perversion and cynicism from the posters here.

[butterlimbo]

BTW. It was me who introduced JFK and MLK into this thread in the naive attempt to demonstrate that unity behind a leader is a good thing for the US.

Little did I expect such perversion and cynicism from the posters here.

Unity behind a leader is so 1984.

[Publicus]

*Deleted quote edited out*

What do the House Republicans have to show for all this crazy chaos, commotion and crap they have created and caused?

The House Republican conference (all House Republicans) at their meeting this morning sang "Amazing Grace."

The applicable line: A wretch like me.

The applicable line for me is: I was blind but now I see. What do I see? I see the Confederate battle flag at the tea party rallies in Washington and outside the White House.

House Republicans need to recite 100 Hail Mary's and 500 of the Act of Contrition. Trouble is, they're not conscious enough to know they have been venial and, more than anything else, vile.

[NeverSure]

Citizen's response to one of Obama's targeted "Make them feel the Pain!" closures !!

This is America. This is ordinary Americans. This is why the King of England in attempting to hold Americans as colonists got his rosy red ass kicked while many other countries rolled over.

Forget what some think of America. Just don't forget what rebels Americans are, and how they have the teeth to back it up.

It takes guts to tear those fences down and march right into the faces of the police and all of the reinforcements they could call, but Americans aren't puzzies.

You're looking at the real America.

There is only one America.

There is no "real America."

In the one America is the side that won the civil war. And in the one America is the side that lost the civil war.

This "real America" stuff is un-American. It implies and suggests there is an "unreal" or a "false" America, which coming from you would mean the Democratic party America.

The guy above is an American. The guy above and the people with him are Americans. It's unfortunate that he and they are loser Americans, but Americans they are.

Prez Obama was elected and reelected. ObamaCare is the law of the land. Republicans failed miserably trying to defund Obamacare by shutting down the government. Republicans are menacing the full faith and credit of the United States and the global economy with their debt ceiling madness. Republicans consequently are currently working out the terms of their surrender - yet another surrender by the loser Americans, yet another Appomattox Courthouse.

That flag and the Americans who love it have always been on the losing side of history, always will be on the losing side of history.

Loser Americans.

And the loser Americans are a part of the one America.

We've always been stuck with you, which means we're all in it together, for better and for worse, indefinitely.

Get used to it - losing, that is.

The American people elected to the House a majority of Republicans. The House controls the purse strings as you can see by the inability of anyone to force anything on them.

Get used to losing. Obama isn't a King. He is subject to the House when it comes to spending money. He wants to spend way too much money and has increased the national debt more than any POTUS in history, with no end in sight.

If anyone is obstructionist it is Obama who refuses to sit down and negotiate. But his whipping boy, Reid of the Senate, is negotiating with the House, after saying he wouldn't. He has no choice.

I have no clue why you approve of a Senate and President who haven't prepared a budget for the US for three years, and yet expect the House, who would need to approve it, to give more spending authority to those who would bankrupt the US.

We have a two party system. Get used to it. Get used to citizens piling fence barricades in front of the White House to remind Obama that he puts his pants on one leg at a time.

[Loptr]

Well, it was inevitable.

Fitch puts US AAA rating on rating watch negative

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101093033

A rating downgrade will result in a rate increase for the US to borrow. Watch bond rates jump on this news. The Interest Rate CDS market will crater if the rate on 10-year Treasuries goes over 4.00%. If this happens, woe be unto all of us.

[NeverSure]

Well, it was inevitable.

Fitch puts US AAA rating on rating watch negative

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101093033

A rating downgrade will result in a rate increase for the US to borrow. Watch bond rates jump on this news. The Interest Rate CDS market will crater if the rate on 10-year Treasuries goes over 4.00%. If this happens, woe be unto all of us.

Well, if Obama would act like a leader, and sit down and negotiate with the duly elected holders of the purse strings, something would get done.

But as long as he acts like a narcissist, and thinks he's a ruler instead of just part of a team, he might bring the nation to its knees.

It's Obama who won't negotiate, and said so from the beginning, yet he has no power over the budget. He's just supposed to be a leader.

Just who does he think he is? The President is MIA.

[notmyself]

More on the rigged shutdown...

[Scott]

Posts which are off-topic, inflammatory, or violate other rules have been deleted along with replies.

Stay on topic.

[notmyself]

The ACA ,which is the entire reason for the shutdown, was HUGE in last years election and the people spoke did they not?

Cruz seems to want another election because he feels that the American people were wrong in their choice... Or sour grapes perhaps?

Edited October 16, 2013 by notmyself

[Scott]

Post with no contribution has been deleted.

[Credo]

So, let's take a look at where things are. Here on TV, we have those who seem to think the gov't consists only of Obama, because they seem to not mention any of the members of the other branches, but some say he isn't king. It would seem like he is here.

So the gov't was shut down compliments of the Republican party

Obamacare is still the law of the land.

[lannarebirth]

So, let's take a look at where things are. Here on TV, we have those who seem to think the gov't consists only of Obama, because they seem to not mention any of the members of the other branches, but some say he isn't king. It would seem like he is here.

So the gov't was shut down compliments of the Republican party

Obamacare is still the law of the land.

Correction; some arbitrarily enforced parts of it are still the law of the land.

[Baloo22]

I guess it must be difficult for Americans to post anything critical of Thai politicians just now.

There was an interesting poll on CNN revealing that two thirds of Americans would get rid of every senator and congressman and even Mr. President himself if they had a referendum on it now so sick are they of their shenanigans.

In some ways, yes it is. Our politicians just do it a little more subtly and not so brazenly. That's all. Our politicians also use out-of-control debt-fueled spending for the purpose of pleasing certain groupings and "buying" their votes.Then comes the old "Better vote for us! Those other scary guys will be take away your _________________!"

One advantage we have is a stronger system of what we call "Checks and Balances". Even if one political party control the Presidency and the Senate, if the opposition party controls the House, they can provide a check against the others. As we are seeing now; One group wants to continue out-of-control spending but the opposition controls one house of Congress and is able to fight against that. Even within our Senate, the much-maligned "60-vote rule" to bring bills forward is a check within the Senate against "tyranny of the majority".

The one thing that I believe we certainly have a better record at doing is putting corrupt politicians and corrupt business leaders in prison where they belong. Go on Wikipedia and look up; Rod Blagojevich, Kwame Kilpatrick, Randall "Duke" Cunningham, William Jefferson, Jeffrey Skilling, Andrew Fastow, Bernie Madoff and his brother Peter. There are many other examples also.

[Credo]

I don't often agree with Baloo, but I have to agree with him on his post. It's hard to say much about Thai politics in light of what's happening.

In spite of the divisions in the US right now, I prefer the system in place to most of Europe.

I dislike the Republicans, right now, but despite their antics, I don't honestly believe they want to hurt the US. Their vision of how to get somewhere is just quite different than the democrats.

I strongly believe that the US needs a publicly mandated health care system. Will this one work? I think it will, but if it can be improved with time, then let it be improved. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not the solution.