When bikers go wild

[ll2]

If this happened in thailand, there were multiple dead bodies.

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[watcharacters]

I don't see a winner in this mess.

[JonnyF]

I don't see a winner in this mess.

Exactly, irrespective of 'who started it' I think if either side had been smarter/calmer then this incident could have been avoided.

[Ryan Lee]

So this was a bike gang?

As gangs in the US seem to be made up along racial lines, was this a black bike gang? It seems a possibility looking at the second photo in post 16.

The video doesn't show the bikers in a very positive light but it would be interesting to see what happened before and what caused the biker to brake-check the SUV.

I see a couple of blacks in the video but the guy who started it and the guy injured are Hispanics so this is probably a mixed group.

[NomadJoe]

That article is very slanted against the riders, perhaps justly so. The problem is the video is taken from too far away to tell whether the Range Rover driver could claim he was in fear for his life. Before the initial contact, you can see the biker staring at the driver but I didn't see the driver do done anything to warrant the brake check it appears the 1st hit rider gave the driver of the Range Rover, which then caused the accident. I will say that if I am in my car with my wife and baby, surrounded by a bunch of people breaking the windows of my car, I would not think twice about mowing a few over to get away too.

I think if you are being chased by a bunch of people on bikes, on foot, or in cars you may feel your life is being threatened no matter how far away the camera is.

You would be wrong. The video does't show what is happening around the Range Rover just after the accident,so you are making assumptions. If the bikers are just all standing there, not acting aggressive, and the driver punches it to flee the accident, that is very different than one or some of the riders screaming at him, threatening him, and bashing his windows in. Impossible to tell on the video.

[RubberSideDown]

One of the riders smashed his mirror prior to the filmed incident, and another of them admitted they were pulling him over to 'talk'...

Obviously the riders were acting aggressively and initiated the problem.

See the mirror in this pic:

[Ace of Pop]

You will see from the Pic,sensible Tinting,unlike the Thai Way where you cant see F/A. yet alone an unlight Bike.

[impulse]

SUV driver's wife talks to media:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/wife-suv-driver-attacked-bikers-upper-manhattan-issues-statement-terrifying-ordeal-article-1.1475062

Includes pictures of people on both sides of the kerfuffle.

Edited October 4, 2013 by impulse

[wantan]

One of the riders smashed his mirror prior to the filmed incident, and another of them admitted they were pulling him over to 'talk'...

Obviously the riders were acting aggressively and initiated the problem.

See the mirror in this pic:

I am suprised the riders were so relaxed on their bikes if there was already real trouble with the SUV going on. If i were one of them i would fear the SUV would knock me of my bike. And for sure i would never risk a brake check after damaging the car.

Is there a new source of information? Do you have a link? RSD, i am not saying you are wrong, just curious.

[RubberSideDown]

I got my info from various (real) news sources.

I also listened to a radio interview of the organizer of the ride ('Nauty' of the 'Rough Ridaz') where he said he would have run as well if he was the one in the SUV and he was afraid for his family's safety.

His quote:

"If it was me, and I felt that all these people would jump me, and I'd get hurt and my family would get hurt, then I'm gonna run off too."

These riders had a mob mentality and obviously had no fear of the driver- they found out that was a bad idea, though- you don't mess with a man and cause him to fear for his family and expect him to do nothing about it.

[yankee99]

I guess this poor guy now will be able to follow is license suspension

"Though Mieses is a Massachusetts resident, he has never had a valid Massachusetts drivers license for a passenger vehicle and has never applied for a motorcycle license, the Registry of Motor Vehicles said. Registry records show that Mieses applied for a learners permit in 1999 and 2000, but that he never obtained a full license because he failed to pay fines imposed after he was ticketed for speeding in Lawrence in 1999. ... Since 1999, he has been ticketed by police 16 times .... In June, the Registry notified the National Driver Register that Mieses was a habitual traffic offender whose right to drive in Massachusetts was revoked until 2017, records show""

[RubberSideDown]

The riders are saying the mirror was broken when one of them was hit by the SUV- very doubtful- I've hit trees with my mirror when off-roading in my SUV and all it did was fold back without breaking- hitting the helmet of a rider moving in the same direction isn't going to do it- smacking car mirrors with a fist is a favorite move of some bikers, though, and that will smash the glass.

[wantan]

These bad bad boyz. Riding without licence, riding without plates, taking other drugs than alcohol, guess many us americans would like to take their guns and shoot them if law would allow it.

Breaking the left car mirror while riding? I wouldn't be able to do it. I would at least need a chain or a metal stick for doing this. And why did they not use these things later then to attack the car? There may was a stop before all that we don't know of where they had time to break the mirror? But why do most of them look so relaxed then? Is this a brutal violent gang ready to kill people or just some idiots wanting to have some fun making wheelies and feeling strong while riding together?

Maybe we will never know for sure what happened. Riders claiming this, SUV driver and wife claiming that.

[RubberSideDown]

Now you're just talking nonsense- 'Many of us would like to shoot them...'

All I'd like is for them not to ride like a-holes and stop endangering people.

You could easily break the mirror glass if you smack it directly with your gloved fist- it's made so it doesn't break if the back part of the mirror housing is hit, though- you sure wouldn't need a stick- bikers have been breaking mirrors that way since day one.

I don't know why you keep harping on 'relaxed', though- they thought they had this guy (and all the others drivers) cowed to let them do what they wanted on the road. They were obviously not expecting to have one of them get hit during the brake-checking maneuver- surprise- that's when things went to hell.

Did you watch the video? The rider who was hit was crowding into the SUV's lane seconds before the brake-check trying to intimidate the driver- not exactly 'relaxed' riding.

Even the organizer of the event said he would have done the same thing had he been the driver- that's pretty damning for the bikers.

Edited October 4, 2013 by RubberSideDown

[RubberSideDown]

The rider is clearly over the white lines on the SUV's side of the road- I'm sure he wasn't exchanging pleasantries- now the driver has to move right without hitting the bike crowding the other side- this distracted driver is the one you pull a brake-check on? Morons.

Edited October 4, 2013 by RubberSideDown

[yankee99]

@wantan

You of course have your opinion. I hold a florida ccw and if the guy with the silver helmet tried to extract me from my vehicle i would be well within my rights to shoot him.....NY doesnt have these luxuries...

"In Florida, you can use lethal force if someone tries to steal your car. This is true whether the carjacker is armed or not. Like with the Castle Doctrine, you have no duty to retreat. Also, remember that Florida permits the use of deadly force to repel forcible felonies. That means that Florida law permits you to shoot at a carjacker even after the car has been stolen and the carjacker is driving away."

another example

"Heres a hypothetical example.....Imagine a person approaches you on the sidewalk and tries to steal your wallet. They have no weapon. In Florida, you are allowed to shoot them because they are committing the forcible felony of robbery"

Edited October 4, 2013 by yankee99

[wantan]

Now you're just talking nonsense- 'Many of us would like to shoot them...'

All I'd like is for them not to ride like a-holes and stop endangering people.

You could easily break the mirror glass if you smack it directly with your gloved fist- it's made so it doesn't break if the back part of the mirror housing is hit, though- you sure wouldn't need a stick- bikers have been breaking mirrors that way since day one.

I don't know why you keep harping on 'relaxed', though- they thought they had this guy (and all the others drivers) cowed to let them do what they wanted on the road. They were obviously not expecting to have one of them get hit during the brake-checking maneuver- surprise- that's when things went to hell.

Did you watch the video? The rider who was hit was crowding into the SUV's lane seconds before the brake-check trying to intimidate the driver- not exactly 'relaxed' riding.

Even the organizer of the event said he would have done the same thing had he been the driver- that's pretty damning for the bikers.

> Now you're just talking nonsense- 'Many of us would like to shoot them...'

I am sure many us-americans would like to do that. Sorry if that hurts your feelings. But imo thats one reason to buy guns, to be able to "protect the family against such brutal gangs that want to rape and kill wherever they go".

Maybe the rider who brake checked had an argument with the SUV. But i still think the others just wanted to have some fun with riding. If not, why the guy with the GoPro hasn't stayed behind the car to get the heroic violence on the video. Why looking in the direction with the camera if he did not want to get the violence on his film? Many things do not make sense to me here.

> Did you watch the video?

Funny question

[RubberSideDown]

You didn't hurt my feelings- you made a ridiculous comment- there's a difference.

It's not really a 'funny question' as to whether you watched the video as your posts make it seem you haven't.

Whatever- I'm done with this thread- you're entitled to your opinion- I disagree with it, but it does reinforce my feelings that the major reason riding a motorcycle is so dangerous is because of the actions of the riders themselves, not external factors.

[wantan]

You didn't hurt my feelings- you made a ridiculous comment- there's a difference.

It's not really a 'funny question' as to whether you watched the video as your posts make it seem you haven't.

Whatever- I'm done with this thread- you're entitled to your opinion- I disagree with it, but it does reinforce my feelings that the major reason riding a motorcycle is so dangerous is because of the actions of the riders themselves, not external factors.

> You didn't hurt my feelings- you made a ridiculous comment- there's a difference.

I read many statements like that related to this incident, in this thread and elsewhere. This is not ridiculous, its a sad statement of the majority of the us society. Stereotypes against bikers, coloured people and people from poorer social stratums. People shooting others to protect their cars, not the family. As yankee99 said "In Florida, you can use lethal force if someone tries to steal your car.", sorry, but the usa should wake up and try to turn into a modern society. The wild wild west times are over long ago.

> It's not really a 'funny question' as to whether you watched the video as your posts make it seem you haven't.

I thought it might be a joke

> ...but it does reinforce my feelings that the major reason riding a motorcycle is so dangerous is because of the actions of the riders themselves, not external factors.

Yep, i agree. And similar but not same, i would like to add another simple rule: Violence causes violence.

[nonthaburial]

I've seen a few videos with these moronic US sportsbike groups. It would be interesting to know what happened before the video, there had clearly been some issue between the Range Rover and the bikes before we start watching.

If I had to guess I'd probably say the bikes were driving like a bunch of idiots with the tough guy pack mentality and the guy in the Range Rover decided he wasn't going to give way/wait/move over or whatever was required of him and it escalated quickly from there.

Saw a similar bunch of Harley Riders recently in Bangkok. Spread across the whole road, driving slow, talking to each other and generally trying to look cool while holding up traffic etc. Very irritating.

Not sure what happens to people on bikes when they get in a big group. I've been on a couple of group rides in the past where people start riding like <deleted> just because of a perceived 'safety in numbers'. It's one of the reasons I prefer to ride either alone or in a smaller group...

how about bully boy antics ?

[nonthaburial]

If my memory serves me right, the vehicle (range rover) occupants were of Asian heritage , now, just a thought, but could racialism enter the fray ??

[wantan]

Yep, talking about weapons is a bit offtopic, but still somehow related to the topic. You can say a SUV can be used as a weapon. Not saying the SUV drivers intention was to use it this way. But if the SUV driver have had a smaller car he sure hadn't tried to ran over bikes and people this way. Simple. What would have happened then? Noone knows.

But i know what will happen now in the USA. Many people will buy bigger cars "to be prepared and feel safer". People in smaller cars will fear they aren't able to get out of such situation. What comes next? Driving with a tank? Imo such big cars are somehow "agressive" too. In my experience people with smaller cars drive much more sensitive, not only in Thailand.

There are many countries where carrying a gun is not allowed. And this is how it should be. Imagine there would have been guns involved on both sides in this incident. Wow, could have ended much worser, for both sides, even for the child, wife and other people.

[Gomyway]

IDK if this is posted already and if not take a look at this video: http://www.carthrottle.com/remember-the-nyc-bikers-they-attacked-a-prius-in-2011/

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed, the topic is about bikers gone wild, firearms were not used, therefore off topic.

[Issanman]

Getting caught riding on one wheel in Florida gets you a $1,000 fine for the first offense and $2,500 fine for the second. The third time will get you a $5,000 fine and the possibility of five years in prison and you will lose your license for 10 years.

[Overandout]

If I were a judge in this case I don't think I would class this as one of my most difficult days at the office.....

If only one of these ·bikers" is lying in hospital paralysed then I'd say that they got off fairly lightly.

[wantan]

The story is going on, while Edwin "Jay" Mieses (the guy who was run over) slowly recovers.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/04/20820832-undercover-cop-was-on-scene-when-bikers-beat-range-rover-driver-officials?lite

http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=90051&sitesection=nydailynews&VID=25227341

[RubberSideDown]

They're claiming he got off his bike to help an injured rider- the video evidence shows otherwise. It needs to be looked at without emotional,bias- the family is obviously preparing for a lawsuit, and they're reading something prepared and approved by their attorney.

This is from another site- it wasn't done by me:

At the start of the video, one thing you should note is that Lien's Range Rover is ahead of the motorcycles. Maybe not all of them, but ahead of the main group. This is important because many bikers are claiming Lien drove through their group from behind. They claim he was speeding and driving recklessly, which is why they wanted him to stop.

Here at the beginning, we see several bikers approaching Mr. Lien's Range Rover. One biker identified as Christopher Cruz pushes into Lien's lane. Lien allows him to enter in front of him.

Cruz accelerates widening the gap behind himself and Lien's SUV. Cruz looks back then applies his brakes. (You can see the brake light come on in the video, especially when in full screen.) The bike abruptly slows.

Lien is, no doubt, checking all the bikes now crowding around his vehicle. He brakes quickly, but not fast enough. The SUV apparently makes light contact with the bikes rear wheel. The entire time, Cruz is looking back at the SUV.

Cruz apparently doesn't know the SUV touched him. It is possible no contact was ever made! Cruz continues riding for a moment. Lien slows to a stop. The other bikers begin slowing down and looking back, and so does Cruz.

Now Cruz, reportedly injured with two broken legs, begins "walking" his bike back to the SUV. (That is, he remains straddling the bike while rolling backward using his feet to push.)

Cruz has reached the SUV. He gets off his bike and approaches the driver's side door. Mieses walks toward the SUV as well. His family is claiming he stopped to help and injured biker, but up until this point, no bikers have been injured and none are in need of help. Notice how many bikers are stopping around the SUV.

Note the time on this still frame, because when you watch the video, you can see Cruz take a swing at the door or the window of the SUV. (You may need to watch in full screen to see it.) Other bikers have surrounded the Range Rover. At least one tire has been slashed. Mieses is one of many in standing in front of the vehicle.

Feeling threatened and concerned about the safety of his family, Alexian Lien decides to flee the situation. Jay Mieses is run down and seriously wounded. He is not helping anyone, he is not offering aid to anyone, he is blocking Lien's SUV.

Edited October 5, 2013 by RubberSideDown

[wantan]

RSD, the family is not claiming Mieses helped an injured biker. Things are slowly getting clearer now. You should watch the statements they made. I posted the links in my last post. You repeat to post "hearsay" and facts that are not proved in any way. The tire may got broken when Lien run over several bikes with the SUV. Maybe a broken clutch lever or brake lever penetrated the tire. And noone is denying that Cruz acting was wrong and looked dangerous and threatening.

Edited October 5, 2013 by wantan

[RubberSideDown]

I did look at your links- I also read stories posted by news site over the last few days- those are not 'hearsay'. There are sources to look at other than the biased links you posted.

You haven't posted a single fact or piece of analysis to support what you think regarding this incident (though you're happy to go off on silly tangents that have since been deleted).

This is what the family originally said- now, of course, they'll be saying whatever their lawyer tells them to.

From one story:

Meanwhile, biker Edwin Mieses, whose relatives say was just trying to help a fellow biker...

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9272043

From CNN:

Mieses' wife said he had been trying to help the first biker who was initially hit by the SUV when he, too, was hit.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/02/us/new-york-bikers-attack-video/index.html

Local NY paper:

Mieses’ family says he was trying to help the fallen rider when Lien’s SUV rolled over him.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/motorcycle-madness-article-1.1475795

Edited October 5, 2013 by RubberSideDown