‘Police nearly tricked me into a confession’

[marell]

Curious that other Human Rights organizations/activists don't seem to be offering support or rallying to his cause.

Edited October 6, 2013 by marell

[Wat dee]

Cops are same everywhere, not just Thailand!

[Soutpeel]

Police nearly tricked me into a confession’

Considering the BiB are not known for their intelligence, if they nearly tricked him one can only conclude this gentleman is not the sharpest knife in the drawer either....

[Emdog]

A couple of observations: 1. Defamation applies here EVEN if all that is said is TRUE! That keeps most people shut up. And I think it is in violation of Declaration of Human Rights at UN (don't bring up other countries, we are talking about here) 2. No cops aren't the same everywhere 3. He is not asking them to help with lost credit card, he is not "infantile expats with 'lost credit cards', no money left in the bank, got drunk and lost my passport and can't afford a ticket home! " 4. statements such as "The Embassy is not some nurse maid for you to suckle up to the teat every time you get yourself in difficulty by following your own choices." are obnoxious, ill mannered and sounds like you watch Fox News far too much. The man is trying to help people in having a decent place to work. Is that so bad?

[HerbalEd]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldn’t intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

Sounds like the fellow has done nothing illegal and is being railroaded. I'm betting you wouldn't be so self righteous if the Thai police went after you and accused you of something that was not illegal. Most likely you'd be at the British Embassy very quickly asking for help.

[HerbalEd]

Man 'o man .... there are some cold heartless cynics on this discussion.

[little mary sunshine]

I don't understand all these "Do Gooders". They come to a foreign country, expect to condem

business practices, get themselves in trouble and expect their Embassy to save them. Grow

up !!!; there are real problems in your own country, solve them first, than save the rest of the

world. No one invited you or your concerns to this country....I decided to retire here as a

guest of The Royal Thai Government. Sure there are lots of difficulties, but it's a Thai

thing and I don't feel I should be sticking my "foreign nose" into other peoples problems....

especially when I don't understand all the facts.........Go back to the UK and solve problems

there, there are a lot of them to solve.

[Maestro]

Off-topic post removed.

[khunken]

I don't understand all these "Do Gooders". They come to a foreign country, expect to condem

business practices, get themselves in trouble and expect their Embassy to save them. Grow

up !!!; there are real problems in your own country, solve them first, than save the rest of the

world. No one invited you or your concerns to this country....I decided to retire here as a

guest of The Royal Thai Government. Sure there are lots of difficulties, but it's a Thai

thing and I don't feel I should be sticking my "foreign nose" into other peoples problems....

especially when I don't understand all the facts.........Go back to the UK and solve problems

there, there are a lot of them to solve.

Heartless & mindless. Just like the 'if you don't like it here, then go home' brigade.

The guy is working for a Finnish NGO who are trying to help people who are themselves helpless. So he's a 'do-gooder'. If there were a few more of his type, the world mignt be a little less f-ed up. Anyone dealing with the BIB here knows what a corrupt lot they are, with a few exceptions. He asked for help - his Embassy refused & made a crass 'pedophile' comment so he went to the EU who seem to have a better understanding of human rights (which is what the guy is fighting for).

If you don't understand all the facts, why bother to add inane comments?

[tpthai2]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/144204/Thailand_Prison_Pack.pdf

[colin2]

What exactly did the police do to try to 'trick' him into signing a confession? While the Thai police does suck, the article doesn't elaborate on what happened and only paints this fella as the good guy campaigner versus dirty cops.

I'd like to know that also. Every coin has two sides.

A brit 50 pence piece has 9 sides and 14 corners !

[chrisinth]

"He said: “This is political persecution – harrassment. I am a human rights activist and my government must and should protect me. It’s their duty."

How do you become recognized as a 'human rights activist'? Do you register somewhere or is self proclamation enough?

Is having both a Twatter and Facebook account a specific requirement or just useful tools?

Whereas I do have respect for people on their human rights quests, believe it or not, they have to assume responsibility for their actions and understanding the laws of the country they are making their accusations in would be number one for me. If they are working for an organization, then understanding the fine print of the contract would also figure high on the agenda as well.

[Baloo22]

Isn't there there another human rights "activist" now staying in Burma because of the same kind of "defamation charges" intimidation from a Thai fruit company? Or is this the same guy and he decided to come back to Thailand and fight it?

[Suradit69]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldn’t intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

I bet if you were been fitted up by the cops, and they do it all the time, and the Embassy didn't help you that you would be squealing for your rights.

So how about some empathy, bad enough they are comparing him to a pedo. At least he has the balls to actually do something about rights over here that sit and moan about 'Thais' on a forum.

" At least he has the balls to actually do something about rights over here that sit and moan about 'Thais' on a forum."

He said sitting and moaning on a forum.

I guess all the human rights issues in UK and Europe have been sorted, so he took on the white man's burden to solve everyone else's problems ... because the British have such a great historical record for their human rights efforts in Asia and Africa?

If he had the balls to do something he felt strongly about, then he should have understood the risks and accepted them. But it seems when the consequences hit the fan, his balls shrank and he wanted the embassy to rescue him ... like some little kid who starts a fight and runs to his mother if someone decides to fight back.

[MikeOboe57]

Well I think it is better the Embassy does nothing to help than recommend a fake lawyer to British citizens seeking legal advice and support... ah... wait a minute...

[GentlemanJim]

Isn't there there another human rights "activist" now staying in Burma because of the same kind of "defamation charges" intimidation from a Thai fruit company? Or is this the same guy and he decided to come back to Thailand and fight it?

Not sure, but maybe if he goes to the Tourist court at swampy he can get the cases heard quickly and does not have to spend years here waiting for legal proceedings to be completed. Why isn't his sponsor organization helping him? Finland is it?

[little mary sunshine]

I stand by my origional statement. These Do Gooders should clean up the mess

in their own country before attempting to solve the problems in countries that they

really know nothing about. They just think they do.

Really, don't think anyone knows all the Facts in this case, If this Do Gooder represents

a Finish NGO, He, and the NGO should be smart enough to have their own funds for

legal issues that may arise from their "help" and not run to the Government," Embassy"

to get them out of problems they have created Oh, isn't the NGO ... Non Govermental

Organization... suppose to clean up their own mess..........

[chickenslegs]

“And they gave me a ‘what to do in a Thai jail’ book.”

Now that is cold.

[saakura]

Disgusting that the Embassy dares to draw the comparison to Pedophiles

Does he have anything to prove this allegation or is it just his word? Sorry for being a doubter but nowadays it seems be a lucrative business being an NGO or activist and gathering attention by making headline grabbing statements.

[metisdead]

A reply to a previously deleted off topic post has been removed as well as comments on moderation.

[makkam]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldn’t intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

If western police forces treated Asians the way the BIB's treat farangs there'd be hell on. They completely ignore every human rights convention in existence ( usually at the whim of a politician who is in the pay of some shady character or other).

Britain has been at the forefront of great global human rights innovations for over a century.

This type of instance is precisely what they ( the embassy/consulates ) should be involved in and not caving into faux thatcherites like yourself

Edited October 6, 2013 by makkam

[H1w4yR1da]

I guess all the human rights issues in UK and Europe have been sorted, so he took on the white man's If he had the balls to do something he felt strongly about, then he should have understood the risks and accepted them. But it seems when the consequences hit the fan, his balls shrank and he wanted the embassy to rescue him ... like some little kid who starts a fight and runs to his mother if someone decides to fight back.

Usual Thai-apologist BS. Fight back? How? By using the ridiculous defamation laws designed to protect the corrupt. You're obviously a supporter of these laws. Amazing!

[theblether]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldn’t intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

Sounds like the fellow has done nothing illegal and is being railroaded. I'm betting you wouldn't be so self righteous if the Thai police went after you and accused you of something that was not illegal. Most likely you'd be at the British Embassy very quickly asking for help.

What was the point of that post? The guy is in the clutches of the Thai legal system. He's been arrested and questioned in a police station. Safe to say that someone somewhere in Thailand is out to get him.

Does that mean he is guilty? No. Is there anyone of any experience of living in this country unaware of the Alice In Wonderland workings of the Thai legal system? More fool them if there are. There is nothing self righteous about pointing out that he cannot expect the government to fight this battle for him. It's is rank stupidity to expect the British government to interfere in the legal workings of another country.

So rather than having a useless pop at me, fix it in your head that this is a self inflicted wound. He will have to face the consequences of mixing it with the Thai legal system alone.

Oh, and be rest assured that I know I can be fitted up the same as the next guy, but after plenty of years as an expat and dealing with various Embassies on my travels, I know they can't help me. That being the case I still choose to be here. My bone of contention is with the muppets that think they can swan about creating a mess and the British government will clean up after them. They are a danger to themselves.

Grow up, it's never going to happen.

[bigbamboo]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldn’t intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

Sounds like the fellow has done nothing illegal and is being railroaded. I'm betting you wouldn't be so self righteous if the Thai police went after you and accused you of something that was not illegal. Most likely you'd be at the British Embassy very quickly asking for help.

What was the point of that post? The guy is in the clutches of the Thai legal system. He's been arrested and questioned in a police station. Safe to say that someone somewhere in Thailand is out to get him.

Does that mean he is guilty? No. Is there anyone of any experience of living in this country unaware of the Alice In Wonderland workings of the Thai legal system? More fool them if there are. There is nothing self righteous about pointing out that he cannot expect the government to fight this battle for him. It's is rank stupidity to expect the British government to interfere in the legal workings of another country.

So rather than having a useless pop at me, fix it in your head that this is a self inflicted wound. He will have to face the consequences of mixing it with the Thai legal system alone.

Oh, and be rest assured that I know I can be fitted up the same as the next guy, but after plenty of years as an expat and dealing with various Embassies on my travels, I know they can't help me. That being the case I still choose to be here. My bone of contention is with the muppets that think they can swan about creating a mess and the British government will clean up after them. They are a danger to themselves.

Grow up, it's never going to happen.

Although the Thai defamation law stinks the Blethery One is right here. If you are travelling abroad you must be prepared to rely on your own resources not your embassy's.

[rametindallas]

In Thailand, one can be charged with libel for telling the truth, if the truth causes damage to an individual or company's reputation. It may not stand up in court but the process leading up to the trial is so onerous to the person charged, that it discourages people from trying to expose corruption or wrongdoing. No foreigner should ever expect help from their Embassy for anything other than mundane things like notary services or passport renewal. Do-gooders and social activists operate at their on peril in Thailand as in many other parts of the World. The powers-that-be don't like people who challenge the status quo and that goes doubly for foreigners. Even if his motives are noble, som nom na.

"Truth is treason in an Empire of lies" - Ron Paul

[sustento]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldn’t intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

If western police forces treated Asians the way the BIB's treat farangs there'd be hell on. They completely ignore every human rights convention in existence ( usually at the whim of a politician who is in the pay of some shady character or other).

Britain has been at the forefront of great global human rights innovations for over a century.

This type of instance is precisely what they ( the embassy/consulates ) should be involved in and not caving into faux thatcherites like yourself

Lord Palmerston died in 1865.

[hellodolly]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldn’t intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

Well I for one am more concerned about what happens to the people that lose there jobs when these do gooders get there way and the company lays people off because they can not afford them. Where are the do gooders to help the victims of the other do gooders?

[Baerboxer]

In Thailand, one can be charged with libel for telling the truth, if the truth causes damage to an individual or company's reputation. It may not stand up in court but the process leading up to the trial is so onerous to the person charged, that it discourages people from trying to expose corruption or wrongdoing. No foreigner should ever expect help from their Embassy for anything other than mundane things like notary services or passport renewal. Do-gooders and social activists operate at their on peril in Thailand as in many other parts of the World. The powers-that-be don't like people who challenge the status quo and that goes doubly for foreigners. Even if his motives are noble, som nom na.

"Truth is treason in an Empire of lies" - Ron Paul

Your first sentence says it all. A statement can be true, but still defamation in Thai law if it causes damage as you say. This may be different to the laws of other countries, but it is the law in Thailand. Break the law here and you have to face the consequences in a judicial system that also operates differently to most other countries.

It is up to people and organizations in Europe and elsewhere to decide which companies and countries they want to deal with. Most businesses have corporate responsibility policies which cover this, and many have procurement procedures that also monitor this and take it into account when approving suppliers. From memory the Thai business has been a very large supplier of fruit concentrate to the European fizzy drinks manufacturers, who have to abide by EU rules and regulations and their own corporate governance. It seems strange the a Finnish NGO goes out to double check this and "expose" violators. Maybe the Thai company is bringing a legal action for good reason, maybe they aren't. That's for the courts to decide.

It would be interesting to know if the EU customers are still buying from this Thai company. If not, and they have terminated business based on Mr. Hall's allegations before any court ruling, then the Thai company has a right to bring legal action, under Thai law. If the allegations are proved true, Mr.Hall is still liable for defamation under Thai law. Mr. Hall is clearly aware of this and seems now to rely on stoking support from the British Government and/or EU. The EU is more fixated on HR issues than the British. What is the position of the Finnish NGO and why aren't they taking a more visible stance?

All part of the murky world of globalization.

[MikeOboe57]

Before everybody gets overboard on a rant against the "welfare state" you should try to get some more details of the story.

Why did the RTP send "documents" to the British Embassy without being asked to do so?

Why did the British Embassy not do the only proper thing in this case - send them back pronto - and instead told Mr. Hall to contact the RTP re. these documents, the contents of which they refused to disclose to Mr. Hall? If the British embassy claims that they do not get involved in legal hassles of their citizens in Thailand (unless ...) then why did they work as messenger boys for the RTP who apparently were unable or unwilling to locate and contact Mr. Hall themselves.

I can accept that embassies keep their fingers out of legal proceedings involving their citizens in the host country - then they should however also refrain from doing the "dirty" work of that country's law enforcement agencies.

The least thing the British Embassy ought to have done was to disclose the contents of these documents to Mr. Hall. Sitting on these documents and knowing the contents a n d asking Mr. Hall to show up at a certain police station to request access to these files with all the risks involved in such an undertaking is plain pathetic to say the least.

Citing legal technicalities to refuse support for its citizen while at the same time displaying an unhealthy spirit of cooperation with the BiB might put a severe stain on the Embassy's reputation.

[manarak]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldn’t intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

In principle yes, but in practice embassies are far from meeting even reasonable expectations when it comes to assisting their citizens that got in trouble abroad, even in extreme cases with immediate threat to life.

Embassies are of no use to citizens, except for issuing passports, legalizing documents in exchange for money and letting citizens and their guests jump through endless and inacceptable hoops to get a little tourist visa to Europe.

Edited October 6, 2013 by manarak