Isn't estate agency a brokerage service that aliens are prohibited ...

[thairookie]

During my previous trip to Pattaya, I came across many Russians operating estate agencies in the city, with booths and counters at major shopping centres.

Isn't it true that foreigners are not permitted to work in brokerage services except "International trading" ? In this case, the foreigners are selling Thai condos, so it cannot be construed as "International trading".

[theoldgit]

Not quite sure what's behind this question but it certainly has nothing to do with visas to other countries.

Will move to the Thai Visa section, which might be more appropriate.

[ubonjoe]

I guess it would depend on how you are using the term brokerage. In the restricted occupations list it is meant to be stock brokers not sales of real estate.

See 26 here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/90291-Update-Of--Restricted-Occupation-For-Foreigners

More info here on what brokerage is defined as by by the foreign business act.

http://www.boi.go.th/index.php?page=legal_issues_for_investors_01_foreign_business_act

[thairookie]

I guess it would depend on how you are using the term brokerage. In the restricted occupations list it is meant to be stock brokers not sales of real estate. See 26 here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/90291-Update-Of--Restricted-Occupation-For-Foreigners More info here on what brokerage is defined as by by the foreign business act. http://www.boi.go.th/index.php?page=legal_issues_for_investors_01_foreign_business_act

s. 26 is shoemaking. I believe you're referring to s.28.

Aha....so real estate agency is something which Thais are not ready to compete.

[falkan]

money talks..

[ubonjoe]

The info on BOI website is what a foreign owned business or company can do. It does not mean a foreigner cannot work in the company.

There have been foreigners from many different countries working in the real estate and property development business for many years.

[Arkady]

Correct. Brokerage except in an international context is illegal. Thus foreign stock brokers are allowed to handle overseas clients but not domestic and the same applies to real estate brokers. They get around this by claiming to be researchers or general management on work permit applications but it is still technically illegally for them to broke property to domestic clients.

[swissie]

The price winning question is: Even by handling "international-Clients" only: Work permit required, yes or no? I would think "yes".

Cheers.

[ubonjoe]

Any work requires a work permit.

[thairookie]

Comparing the Royal Decree prescribing works and professions which an alien is prohibited to engage, with the Foreign Business Act providing a list of businesses that foreigners are not permitted to engage, can we conclude that:

(1) A foreigner is not allowed to be a real estate agent dealing with properties in Thailand.

(2) A foreigner can register a company with 51% Thai ownership, in which case the company will not be considered as foreign owned or foreigner.

(3) A company with only 49% owned by a foreigner can carry on business as a real estate agency for properties in Thailand. However, the foreign shareholder (or any foreigner, for that matter) cannot hold himself out as an estate agent of that company.

Am I correct ?

[ubonjoe]

1/3 Being a real estate agent is not on the list of restricted occupation list so they can get a work permit. What is on the the list of businesses does not crossover to occupations. A foreigner can work at them.

[thairookie]

1/3 Being a real estate agent is not on the list of restricted occupation list so they can get a work permit. What is on the the list of businesses does not crossover to occupations. A foreigner can work at them.

Not trying to pick bones in an egg. It may appear academic since most foreigners are already in the business, but I'd really like to understand the situation against the prescribed laws.

I understand your point about the list of businesses under the FBA being exclusive from the occupations/professions under Annex to the Royal Decree. The FBA deals with companies, so we can agree that a 51% Thai ownership company is a Thai company and not caught by the FBA.

It's the Annex to the Royal Decree that confuses me. It reads:

28. Brokerage or agency excluding brokerage or agency in international trade business

The above refers to occupations or professions that a foreign individual cannot get involved. How the above excludes the profession of real estate agent is something I have difficulties trying to crack.

If 28 is read in isolation without reference to FBA, then the term brokerage/agency clearly includes real estate agency.

If 28 is read together with FBA, in particular List 3 of the restricted business activities, it says:

Agency or brokerage, except:

- Brokerage or agency of securities or service related to future agricultural commodities futures or financial instruments or securities.

- Brokerage or agency for the purchase/sale or procurement of goods or services necessary to production or providing services to affiliated enterprises.

- Brokerage or agency for the purchase or sale, distribution or procurement of markets, both domestic and overseas for the distribution of products made in Thailand, or imported from overseas in the category of international business, with minimum foreign capital of not less than 100 million baht or more.

- Other brokerage or agency activities, as stipulated in ministerial regulations.

Still it does not seem to exclude real estate business. In any case, 28 provides its own exception.

[ubonjoe]

I am of the opinion that 28 does not refer to real estate brokers. It is meant to be for stocks, bonds, commodities and etc. Since the original decree was written in 1973 would be something to consider. How big do you think the real estate market was then.

[lopburi3]

There were a number of new villages being established here in Bangkok at that time as I recall with advertising in local papers common. We bought a new home in 1974 from a part time real estate agent (commission sales) after checking a few different such locations. As I recall Bangkok Post always had a few firms also posting real estate advertising even back then. Most was and is done without agents but there were always some.

[thairookie]

In the previous thread where this matter was discussed in depth (not restricted to brokerage/agency), Sunbelt gave this answer:

"It's how the work permit description is stated for the foreigner in the work permit. The key is who performs the actual service? A foreigner can be a MD, Director, General Mgr, Advisor, Consultant, etc. He or she as a foreigner can direct Thai staff and transfer knowledge to the Thai staff if its a restricted trade but he or she cannot or should perform the work themselves unless in a unique case its transferring knowledge by showing the Thai staff the "know how."

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Any foreigner holds a WP that has estate agent written as his occupation ?

[colinp]

In the previous thread where this matter was discussed in depth (not restricted to brokerage/agency), Sunbelt gave this answer:

"It's how the work permit description is stated for the foreigner in the work permit. The key is who performs the actual service? A foreigner can be a MD, Director, General Mgr, Advisor, Consultant, etc. He or she as a foreigner can direct Thai staff and transfer knowledge to the Thai staff if its a restricted trade but he or she cannot or should perform the work themselves unless in a unique case its transferring knowledge by showing the Thai staff the "know how."

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Any foreigner holds a WP that has estate agent written as his occupation ?

excluding brokerage or agency in international trade business

Most foreign real estate agents in my location aren't 'agents' as such but 'International Consultants'.

[thairookie]

 

excluding brokerage or agency in international trade business

 

Most foreign real estate agents in my location aren't 'agents' as such but 'International Consultants'.

 

My interpretation is not far from the truth, it now seems.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app