Bulding 3rd floor on a 2storey house, rules? lost in the forest...

[Omega7]

Hi,

My wife have a 2 storey house in Nonthaburi,and we would like to build a 3rd floor.

our house is 12 years old, in a good quality village, i think it can support a 3rd floor but im not an expert

i tried call the previous owner to get plans of the original house he said he dont have it anymore and i should ask from the village office, the village office dont have either...

I know in Thailand you cant trust much people, especially builders, so I invited 3 different builder company to my house to check it up if its possible to build 3rd floor. i told them we need only 1 big room on the top and 1 bathroom, and can use the lightest material they can find to be sure not be overweight for the piles.

to my surprise (or i may say i expected it will turn out like this) all 3 builder said different things

1. the first one come take a look on the house about 5 minutes, and said no need original plans of house he see it can support a 3rd floor, as in thailand they always calculate the houses with overweight in mind when build it so no problem to add one more floor the piles will support the extra weigh just fine.

- he said we only need to ask permission from the village manager and we good to go,

the next day the builder also sent a price offer of 480.000 baht

2. the second builder said to build a 3rd floor we must have the original and new plans submitted to the District office for approval, he said without that its very risky to build but not impossible. as well he said permission from the village manager is not necessary only from district office.

3. the third builder said he think its ok too to build a 3rd floor, but he really would love to see the original house plan, without that he not so sure to build, as he cant calculate the weight the house base can support

he do not wanted anybody's approval for plans neither district office nor village management he said its not needed.

so here Im , im not sure what to do next as everybody seems to understand te law in Thailand differently.

if you have any experiance please let me know how should I proceed.

(also i was thinking, like in that case if its true that i need permission and approved plan from district office for building, then is it possible that the district office has the original plans of the house, as it should have been approved 12 years ago when the house built isnt it? they must have a copy what they approved.)

also if anybody know any trustable and not too expansive, experienced builder in Nonthaburi or Bangkok area please help me, i really need somebody who carefully check up the house to see if its really can support a 3rd floor, as well as do things legally and get all necessary permissions

Edited October 13, 2013 by Omega7

[HAL9000]

Go to the Amphur to apply for a building permit. They require a blueprint signed by both an architect and engineer.

[Satcommlee]

A lot of houses in Thailand are built using pre-approved specs and blueprint which the government publishes online.

This saves average Thais from the expense of needing an architect.

There is a good chance your house is one of these pre-approved specs, so adding a third floor will require an architect and dare I say a lot of expense and hassle.

It's also why shop houses always look the same, and so do police stations, hospitals and even schools.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Satcommlee

[Gsxrnz]

Whatever you do, don't shortcut the process just to get a result. I'd want to be very sure that the existing structure can support an additional floor and that the construction methods used to add it are of a recognised standard.

I've seen the devastation following the pancake affect of a building collapsing on itself - not pretty.

[Longtooth]

If it turns out your pier footings, piers, and columns and beams are all large enough with the proper amount of good, ridged-surface reinforcing bar inside of everything.....

I would still go with the light, composition, white looking, insulating blocks. Home mart has them, I think. They are lighter than the normal concrete or brick blocks. I would use the light and cheap sheet roofing, as opposed to the cement tiles, also for weight reasons. To make a floor on top of your existing 2nd storey, they probably will put the reinforced concrete planking down, then a layer of mesh or a small rebar grid with a couple inches of concrete poured on top of the planks. It seems to work well. If they need to drill anchor holes in your existing columns and beams, try to have them set the new rebar in with the grey epoxy rebar setting compound. Not a good job if you don't use it.

[Omega7]

Thank you for all the info.

is any of you know?:

as you all say that the plans, blueprints need to be approved by amphur, then is it possible if my house plans or at least a copy is at the local amphur office? I mean they must have a copy at lest of what they approved, isn't it?

if they dont have copy of original plan what they approved, then if you modify your house how on earth they know that its a modification and not part of the original plan?

thank you

[Omega7]

A lot of houses in Thailand are built using pre-approved specs and blueprint which the government publishes online.

This saves average Thais from the expense of needing an architect.

There is a good chance your house is one of these pre-approved specs, so adding a third floor will require an architect and dare I say a lot of expense and hassle.

It's also why shop houses always look the same, and so do police stations, hospitals and even schools.

that sounds interesting, do you have a link to this free plans? maybe mine is there too

thank you so much

[rgs2001uk]

Your first port of call is the local "ket" office in NB, they may use upcountry lingo and refer to it as Or Bor Tor.

They are the ones who will approve your plans and give the building permit to extend your house.

I can only assume you have a typical 2 storey house on a moo baan built the same as all the others.

From what you have said, number 2 is the one I would go with.

There is another thing to consider, many Thais dont build 3 storey houses, they will build 2 or 2 1/2 storey, something to do with tax.

If you go ahead and start work without authority, be aware you can expect a visit from the local authorities, thats why all these houses being built or renovated will have a photocopy of the authority in a plastic sheet on the building for people to see.

I have witnessed at least one house have all work stopped and been shut off, a bit like those scene of crime do no enter you see on the telly.

Work only resumed when the relevant paperwork had been applied for and permission given.

[Dork]

Thank you for all the info.

is any of you know?:

as you all say that the plans, blueprints need to be approved by amphur, then is it possible if my house plans or at least a copy is at the local amphur office? I mean they must have a copy at lest of what they approved, isn't it?

if they dont have copy of original plan what they approved, then if you modify your house how on earth they know that its a modification and not part of the original plan?

thank you

It's true that the district office retains a copy of the blueprints. The problem is that there is no way of knowing whether those plans that were submitted to them accurately reflect what was actually built. In most cases there is a least some deviation. For example, the plans will show the installation of a grease trap but in reality very few developers actually install one because it saves money and there is no way to tell afterwards whether it is there or not.

There can be a lot of low level corruption involved and it is easy to build something very different to the submitted plans and still have it signed off.

Personally I would rather rely on the advice of a builder I trust. A good builder can arrange an engineers inspection and it doesn't cost much. Regarding the depth of the piles, since it is a village all the houses there will be the same and probably so will all the surrounding developments. It should be possible to ask around for the answer.

[krisb]

Think you need an engineer to look and certify, not a builder.

[Satcommlee]

A lot of houses in Thailand are built using pre-approved specs and blueprint which the government publishes online.

This saves average Thais from the expense of needing an architect.

There is a good chance your house is one of these pre-approved specs, so adding a third floor will require an architect and dare I say a lot of expense and hassle.

It's also why shop houses always look the same, and so do police stations, hospitals and even schools.

that sounds interesting, do you have a link to this free plans? maybe mine is there too

thank you so much

http://www.dpt.go.th is the official Thai link, but a more friendly English version can be found here.. http://www.thailandhouseplans.com/construction-plans/free-thai-house-plans

[icare999]

just do it no one will care thats if structure will allow. Why do forang assume normal rules which apply in west apply here. Their will be no one checking or caring believe me and ive been here 25 years. Its your house do it as you want. Thats beauty of living here its called freedom. However down side is if someone wants to build an abattoir next to your house on their land you wont be able to do anything about it.

[Crossy]

A lot of houses in Thailand are built using pre-approved specs and blueprint which the government publishes online.

This saves average Thais from the expense of needing an architect.

There is a good chance your house is one of these pre-approved specs, so adding a third floor will require an architect and dare I say a lot of expense and hassle.

It's also why shop houses always look the same, and so do police stations, hospitals and even schools.

that sounds interesting, do you have a link to this free plans? maybe mine is there too

thank you so much

http://www.dpt.go.th is the official Thai link, but a more friendly English version can be found here.. http://www.thailandhouseplans.com/construction-plans/free-thai-house-plans

The same government plans (and the downloadable drawings) are also here http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/index.html

[Khun Jean]

just do it no one will care thats if structure will allow. Why do forang assume normal rules which apply in west apply here. Their will be no one checking or caring believe me and ive been here 25 years. Its your house do it as you want. Thats beauty of living here its called freedom. However down side is if someone wants to build an abattoir next to your house on their land you wont be able to do anything about it.

Well after twenty five years that was sure some silly advice and should be completely ignored.

Zoning does exist in many areas and freedom is something the Thais have, not foreigners.

Get that building permit!