long time in Thailand and my thai still sucks

[infinity11]

open to kind advice and suggestions
some of the problems issues:
language arts dont come easy
it is very difficult to hear the tones
they speak so quickly
laziness, it takes hard work to master a language
not a spring chicken anymore, easier when you are younger?
the thais even if they speak English are not much help, not that i blame them

there is a rumor they dont like us to know the language though this is moot
even when i do speak it, i wish i had a baht for every time i heard 'huh?'

dont even start about on the telephone

i know these are mostly if not all excuses

how have you learned to speak it well?

i would especially like to hear from those who find/found it very difficult

i know the grammar is easier but just as english is for them the proper pronunciation is extremely difficult

[Dr Robert]

I felt exactly as you do and have a great deal of difficulty tuning to the tones. I just put my head down and studied, and listened and I also did formal training in a Thai language school which really helped.

There are no simple solutions unfortunately and some people seem to have a genuine skill for it, and others like me and you dont. If its any consolation, perseverance has really helped me and I urge you not to give up because the rewards are worth it. Good luck Mr inifinity.

[transam]

You are not alone. I gave up a long time ago.

[falkan]

you go to school?

try to self study 1-2 hours everyday and it will take you a year and you fluent speaking..

[arthurwait]

Mine stopped when we got married.

[HeijoshinCool]

I know a guy who has studied two hours everyday, minimum, for three years now. He hangs mostly with Thais and insists they speak Thai. He's 60, an ex-exec of Fortune 100 company, sharp, nobody's fool.

He will be the first to admit his Thai sucks.

Some people just aren't good at languages. Especially tonal languages.

[transam]

I know a guy who has studied two hours everyday, minimum, for three years now. He hangs mostly with Thais and insists they speak Thai. He's 60, an ex-exec of Fortune 100 company, sharp, nobody's fool.

He will be the first to admit his Thai sucks.

Some people just aren't good at languages. Especially tonal languages.

Me.................

[CharlieH]

Learning a language is mostly about memory, and its well known peoples memory isnt as good as you get older.

The main issue I think for westerners is the tonal system, because we never learned to listen for subtle changes in our language tone, but now it matters and its not easy.

Example, you ask a Thai or someone to say "no new wood" in Thai and I"ll guarantee that most will hear the same word repeated 3 times, same goes for "white, rice, people" this also proves another point that unless yiu hear the whole sentence its easy to get things out of context or totally wrong.

I have been here coming up 8 years, cant speak fluent Thai but enough to get into trouble and the problem there is when you can speak some, Thais think you can speak more and then totally lose you because you cant understand all they are blethering on about and yiu have to stop them and tell them you dont understand......again! Couple all that with the fact that likd chinese they cant and dont always pronouce the R as an R its often as an L even though its wrong ! Confusing? .....totally.....still I stick with it and try to learn one new word or phrase every day.

Edited October 15, 2013 by CharlieH

[Jasun]

Just keep at it and it will eventually start to click. A long haired dictionary is a great help if you don't have one already.

[uptheos]

Learning a language is mostly about memory, and its well known peoples memory isnt as good as you get older.

The main issue I think for westerners is the tonal system, because we never learned to listen for subtle changes in our language tone, but now it matters and its not easy.

Example, you ask a Thai or someone to say "no new wood" in Thai and I"ll guarantee that most will hear the same word repeated 3 times, same goes for "white, rice, people" this also proves another point that unless yiu hear the whole sentence its easy to get things out of context or totally wrong.

I have been here coming up 8 years, cant speak fluent Thai but enough to get into trouble and the problem there is when you can speak some, Thais think you can speak more and then totally lose you because you cant understand all they are blethering on about and yiu have to stop them and tell them you dont understand......again! Couple all that with the fact that likd chinese they cant and dont always pronouce the R as an R its often as an L even though its wrong ! Confusing? .....totally.....still I stick with it and try to learn one new word or phrase every day.

This is so true and it's not always because they think you can speak Thai. The moment you open your mouth and say a sentence in Thai, they will know right away if you can speak it to a decent level or not. Many get a kick out of saying "ah you speak Thai very well" and then deliberately go rambling on knowing that you will 'lose face' and not understand.

[chuang]

mai pen rai.......jai yen yen..

[Jackson86]

It's easier to learn a new language from young, but once you hit 20s or 30s, it's very difficult. Personally I only know a few basic conversational sentences such as 'Hello', 'good morning/afternnoon/evening', 'where is the toilet?' and 'thank you'. Most of the time, I have to rely on English which I think very few Thai people can speak except for those at city areas.

[paz]

Exposed above all the well know difficulties in pronouncing tonals and let's not even get started with the writing and reading of an absurd number of symbols written without spaces, that also has irregulars, as it not even true that Thai is spelt as written. Ok, we all agree on that, hard application is needed to learn, etc. etc,

Now the real question is to find a method that works at impressing your memory, and makes things click together even when don't naturally do. Few teachers understand the utmost importance of that.

What I think is extremely important in adult learning is the mnemonics. For example there is a publicized system (I think is Australian) that use visual cues to help you remember the Thai symbol with a free mental association. And for the proper pronunciation, is widely believed that you have to learn and memorize the correct writing first, then derive the pronunciation from there. That means you will be spelling like 20 words per minute at first, but at least you will be speaking elementarily, but correctly. I'm trying to head in that direction myself.

Edited October 15, 2013 by paz

[bocceball1]

Being an old man, having spoken a little French, Italian an Spanish when I was young....I now realize, from this post and the replies That I'm

Tone Deaf....

Been here 10 years and maybe can speak a couple of hundred words and I still (as said by one poster before) get the "Huh?"

Oh well....Anybody know a cure for "tone deafness"?

[chrissables]

Try highspeedthai (google it) if you are prepared to learn the Thai letters and tone rules etc. With the use of ANKI cards for memory it is the best for self study, in my opinion.

[kevvy]

mai pen rai.......jai yen yen..

mai ben rai reu? wan nee fon tok

[Globeman]

Learning a language is mostly about memory, and its well known peoples memory isnt as good as you get older.

The main issue I think for westerners is the tonal system, because we never learned to listen for subtle changes in our language tone, but now it matters and its not easy.

Example, you ask a Thai or someone to say "no new wood" in Thai and I"ll guarantee that most will hear the same word repeated 3 times, same goes for "white, rice, people" this also proves another point that unless yiu hear the whole sentence its easy to get things out of context or totally wrong.

I have been here coming up 8 years, cant speak fluent Thai but enough to get into trouble and the problem there is when you can speak some, Thais think you can speak more and then totally lose you because you cant understand all they are blethering on about and yiu have to stop them and tell them you dont understand......again! Couple all that with the fact that likd chinese they cant and dont always pronouce the R as an R its often as an L even though its wrong ! Confusing? .....totally.....still I stick with it and try to learn one new word or phrase every day.

This is so true and it's not always because they think you can speak Thai. The moment you open your mouth and say a sentence in Thai, they will know right away if you can speak it to a decent level or not. Many get a kick out of saying "ah you speak Thai very well" and then deliberately go rambling on knowing that you will 'lose face' and not understand.

Yep, their sole purpose in life is to make the Farang lose face... that's what Thais were put on this earth to do. They tell you you speak very well because they love a bit of polite hyperbole - with each other too, not just foreigners, believe it or not.

If you have been here awhile and polished your ten or fifteen stock phrases through repetition, it is easy to see why a Thai person might think you are fluent or at least conversant.

It also depends on the education or just general ignorance of the person concerned. I've met some idiots who just can't conceive of the idea that we can't speak Thai, because humans are innately born with the power of language... they had heard we were strange (and that our women are sexually promiscuous) but didn't realise that we don;t possess the power of speech... "and when they try to speak, they just make nonsensical noises, like old Somchai after he got struck by lightning!!"

Then there are some people who tell you that of course you can't speak Thai, because it is such a complicated and sophisticated language... (Often these are the sort of blokes who use the term "oh-hooooohh" an awful lot.) I have asked some of these people what it is; the grammar, the vocabulary - what exactly makes Thai so difficult according to them? They usually clam up because the real answer is "because we are superior beings, not, like yourselves, descended from monkeys, as you freely admit". Luckily this type seems to be a dying breed.

These people I mention above, in case someone thinks I am having a go at all the noble folk of this great nation, are the exceptions. Most Thais (at least the ones that I meet, whom admittedly aren't mostly comprised of saloon workers) figure out pretty quickly where I stand linguistically, try to accommodate, and don't blurt streams of words in an attempt to embarrass me.

[h90]

I feel the southern Thai is easier to learn. They speak it stronger. But maybe that is only for German speaker.

I also have the impression that French learn Thai faster than Germans.

But I might be wrong on both things

[Baerboxer]

First comment is about learning different languages. Some people have a natural ability to do this others don't. I've worked with some very clever people, well educated and qualified, but who still found it impossible to learn and communicate in another language. I've met some very basically educated people, particularly in Asia, who pick up languages very easily and can communicate in several, switching with ease.

I have reasonable English, German, French and Chinese (Mandarin). However, when it comes to Thai I struggle, and Mrs. BB is a teacher with a Masters in Education! It seems that some Thais understand what I say first time, others apparently cannot understand a word. My wife shrugs and says it must be me, but I know I always pronounce the same. I know several really good Thai speaking farangs, who read and write Thai and have been here a long time. They say similar things happen to them too. Very strange.

[Ratsima]

I started studying Thai in 1996, long before I moved here. I've been through Becker, Pimsleur, Rosetta Stone, High Speed Thai, dozens of YouTube videos and more. I've now been living here nearly nine years.

I don't understand anything said to me and no one understands anything I say. I can read and understand quite a bit of Thai, but I'm a total failure whe it comes to conversation.

I, too, gave up long ago. No longer worth the effort.

It always amazes restaurant employees that I can read their Thai menu, make an order and then not understand anything they say back to me.

I'm embarrassed and ashamed of my failure and try very hard to avoid situations where Thai will be spoken. As a result, I'm pretty much home bound.

[Rumblecat]

Learn to read at the same time as learning to speak. It makes a huge difference (and it's actually easy to learn to read Thai than it is to learn to speak and understand it- the basic alphabet and rules aren't that complicated... there are curveballs along the way as it gets more advanced, same with any language though).

Pick up a good book on learning to thai like David Smythe's "Complete Thai". Take a chapter a week. Thirty minutes a day. If you properly apply yourself, you should see a big difference after a month. Like a lot of things, you get back what you put in with these things... it's easy to get frustrated or discouraged, you've just got to put in the effort for the reward though.

[paz]

Try highspeedthai (google it) if you are prepared to learn the Thai letters and tone rules etc. With the use of ANKI cards for memory it is the best for self study, in my opinion.

That is the method I waw referring to above, stress on mnemonic tricks.

[Tywais]

Example, you ask a Thai or someone to say "no new wood" in Thai and I"ll guarantee that most will hear the same word repeated 3 times,

And a tongue twister taught to me by a grade school girl - who sells chicken eggs (in Thai). Say it 10 times fast and you'll break something.

[willyumiii]

How old are you?

I have the same problems you do'

I am 60.

I read recently that the older you are, the more difficult it is to learn Thai.

From what I read, this is due to the fact that after age 40 your ear progressively becomes less and less sensitive to differences in tones.

To me, loam and loam sound alike..and I pronounce them alike too!

Choke dee!

Edited October 15, 2013 by willyumiii

[Jackson86]

My brother has been working in Thailand for about 2 years. He speaks thai very well but unable to read and write. I'm more worse.

[Dave Phuket Sisaket]

You absolutely have to learn the alphabet and tone rules first if you ever want to speak Thai and be understood. I am tone dead when it cones to hearing Thai, but I can read any word and pronounce it so it is understood. The system is actually almost totally phonetic easy to learn, with far fewer exceptions to the rules than any Western language. If you are learning with Western script the trouble usually is not in the tones, but you will be using the wrong vowel and consonant sounds. There is also a long and short version of each vowel, which helps you nail the way to accent the word as well.

Get about ten hours of going through sound drills with each letter, as well as the five tones, and you will learn to sound out words properly. After that you can't help but improve because you are surrounded by written Thai every day. I still can't always distinguish the tones when I hear them but can usually figure it out from context.

You will know your Thai has improved when Thais stop telling you that your Thai is good and start saying "you speak Thai very clearly".

[foxboy]

anybody know any good apps for learning Thai

tons available, but what are the most useful ones out there?

Edited October 15, 2013 by foxboy

[paz]

First comment is about learning different languages. Some people have a natural ability to do this others don't. I've worked with some very clever people, well educated and qualified, but who still found it impossible to learn and communicate in another language. I've met some very basically educated people, particularly in Asia, who pick up languages very easily and can communicate in several, switching with ease.

I have reasonable English, German, French and Chinese (Mandarin). However, when it comes to Thai I struggle, and Mrs. BB is a teacher with a Masters in Education! It seems that some Thais understand what I say first time, others apparently cannot understand a word. My wife shrugs and says it must be me, but I know I always pronounce the same. I know several really good Thai speaking farangs, who read and write Thai and have been here a long time. They say similar things happen to them too. Very strange.

Is not strange, as discussed many time. At first they will think you are speaking english and have their mindset prepared to understand that, remember is not easy for them, because English has many different accents and of course is often spoken poorly. At the time they realize you are trying to speak Thai, the recollection of the sounds you uttered is gone, also because the pronunciation or choice of words was, at least, questionable.

So you start again, but slightly annoyed by the situation, loose focus and keep repeating what you just said possibly with the wrong tone, there is nothing worst than that in Thai.

At that point even if they got to understand you by the context, some will pretend they did not and will answer in English if they know it, otherwise will just close their brain and loose interest. These situation s shave a positive outcome only when both sides are friendly and willing, otherwise is better to move on and avoid frustration.

Edited October 15, 2013 by paz

[johnlandy]

you go to school?

try to self study 1-2 hours everyday and it will take you a year and you fluent speaking..

BS, he might be able to make himself understood BUT he will never be fluent (not as an ethnic)

I was in a restaurant one night with my bird and a very long term resident was speaking (out of her sight) and she thought it was a Thai. That is an exception to the rule.

Perhaps 1 case in a 100,000 could claim to be fluent or ever hope to become fluent.

[dao16]

I wouldn't worry about the tones until they come up in words you are actively learning, like some mentioned in the previous responses. Otherwise, you will drown in them. Instead, focus on copying what others say and you will find that, usually, you are saying the right tone (it happens to me all the time....I couldn't tell you the tone, couldn't identify it, but I just say it how others do and I mostly get it ...people correct me when I don't).

A big thing that I haven't seen mentioned too much is perseverance and striking up conversations. Try to cultivate some place where you can talk to people in Thai. I had my first chats with store owners who just wanted to know stuff about foreigners and were happy to have a change in their day. Just those little 1-2 minute exchanges can be excellent practice. Otherwise, find some other place until you find a person who is interested enough to be patient as you slog through.

Another thing is....this one is sort of a pet peeve of mine....people often say things to me like "that is so cool...I wish I could speak another language" as if it is something I just picked up by the by there one day. No, it actually took a ton of work, some embarrassment (but I try not to take myself to seriously when I mess things up) and many socially awkward situations (sitting there, understanding VERY little while everyone else is laughing at a joke, for example). Put yourself out there and remind yourself that it IS difficult to learn. I see a lot of people beat themselves up and then give up instead of realizing that it was hard work for nearly everyone, even faster learners.

Hang in there.