The new Government Health Insurance - info for TV members in Chiang Mai

[Sheryl]

There is a topic in the Health forum which I think it would be better to post in as this is a national issue. It is good there are topics pointing to this in all local forums however will help people most if there is one main topic.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/671391-affordable-health-insurance/

But how many people read the health forum? I only found that thread because I was redirected from another post. Also I thought pinned topics can be added to by members, as is the case with the smog thread. This is a very important subject & needs to be at the top of the page. Also agree about deleting off topic posts.

dd

Agree it is important. Agree it should be pinned. Agree it should point to the main topic. Believe it should contain the ldescription and the link only and be locked THe general rule is one subject one topic. Otherwise information has to b e reposted 40 times.

Agree too, but this is Chiang Mai & I'm only interested in CM hospitals.

Information on which is still coming in, so let's be patient re the pinning. (Actually pinned topics in my experience are often overlooked). As long as there is new information coming in, it'll stay front and center on the regular section. When the dust settles, we'll pin in each regional forum the lists of hospitals and link it to a single, more concise pinned thread in Health. For now, as all the topics are still very active, I think we are fine as is, and it is certainly premature to pin up a list of hospitals...people have just begun to try to get this.

[Sheryl]

Hey at least it might be enough to stop us self-insured US expats from being hunted down and fined taxed by the Obamacare fiasco.

Bona fide U.S. expats are exempt from the requirement of having U.S. based health insurance. Also exempt from any fines. Also not required to have foreign based insurance either. Cheers.

How does one qualify as a "bona fide" US expat? ( I hate that term, but mai phen rai.) I'm registered with the consulate as living here, retired, does that count?

I like the sound of this new deal, and am going to sign up, whatever it takes. Finally, a break!

I think they will go by the address from which you file your income taxes or, if different, what you indicate is your "tax home" (the last will not apply to those not claiming the foreign income exclusion). After all, the tax penalty will as I understand it be levied annually as part of the income tax process.

[Beetlejuice]

I am guessing that this medical scheme will soon become compulsory for those on non Immigrant visas and long term stayers, whether we want to join or not. The writing is already on the wall, and the Government has already suggested this some while back. It`s now just a matter of time before everything is clarified and implemented.

I think there will be winners and losers here. The quality of medical care available depends on where we live and the standard of government hospitals in our areas. Something like a lottery. For some it will prove to be of huge benefit, for others it will hardly be worthwhile.

We wait and see what transpires and also hoping that this thread will be pinned.

[Thailand]

There is a topic in the Health forum which I think it would be better to post in as this is a national issue. It is good there are topics pointing to this in all local forums however will help people most if there is one main topic.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/671391-affordable-health-insurance/

Sheryl quoted this link in her first post.

Anyway,early days. I am sure there will be a lot more information coming in.

[NancyL]

Yes, this is a national issue, but I think a Chiang Mai-specific thread is needed. Today, when our little group goes to register at Nakorn Ping, I hope to take a few photos and come back with specific instructions, like what door to enter, which desk to visit, etc. Something similar to the newspaper account from Udon in the thread on the health forum.

Also, info about other hospitals around CM, referrals to clinics in-town. Details of what's needed to obtain a referral to Suan Dok. And I'll ask about transportation for the elderly, frail or handicapped people from the central city. Some of those folks have difficulty in getting into the back of a fixed-route song thaew or a tuk-tuk.

Stay tuned.

Edited October 16, 2013 by NancyL

[worgeordie]

I have had my card for a couple of weeks now, before I was getting

free treatment at local Government hospital for last couple of years,

I could not understand how they could afford or why they would do

this,but it was available ,via the yellow book.

Now they are charging ,its a very small amount really, I receive

12/15K s worth of medicine per annum,plus various tests,and

see the Doctor,so I am still in front,plus the nurses,Doctors at

the hospital I go to are all nice and caring,

I am also paying into BUPA, but they do not cover outpatient

care,so the Government scheme fills the bill, just hope they

can sell some rice and keep it going !

Regards Worgeordie

[cmsally]

Ideally an expat scheme the same as or better than the Social Insurance would be good. That way you would be able to get care at Suan Dokh or Rajavej. That would be considerably better.

I would go for that as a Plan B as I can't get Social Insurance under my husbands company, as he is the owner. Relations of company owners (as well as the owners) are excluded from Social Insurance of that company.

[Rama]

Where is Nakorn Ping hospital? I have a friend I want to get enrolled. thx.

[scorecard]

Hi Sheryl,

Thanks for the most interesting post.

Yesterday I think I saw a post on this subject which had an attachment with the applicable policy in Thai language. But now I can't find it.

I would like to try for this card and my Thai family (located Chiang Mai) are very supportive, however my family would prefer to have an appropriate document in Thai language to show to the hospital reception.

Am I mistaken about the Thai language version, or could you perhaps please advise where to find the Thai language version.

Thanks again.

[Sheryl]

Post #86 in this thread has the link http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/671391-affordable-health-insurance/page-4

I can't post the link itself as it opens straight into a pdf doc rather than a website. If someone out there can figure out how, by all means do.

[cmsally]

Here's the link; I dug it up from the post mentioned above.

(Application form for Govt. health insurance for migrants/foreigners - in Thai)

http://udon-news.com/sites/default/files/files/05-recht/antrag-krankenversicherung.pdf

Edited October 16, 2013 by cmsally

[scorecard]

Ideally an expat scheme the same as or better than the Social Insurance would be good. That way you would be able to get care at Suan Dokh or Rajavej. That would be considerably better.

I would go for that as a Plan B as I can't get Social Insurance under my husbands company, as he is the owner. Relations of company owners (as well as the owners) are excluded from Social Insurance of that company.

Would you please share a bit more on the Social Insurance scheme. Is this the fund that all Thai employees pay into, as a broad social scheme? Or is ir specific to health, but different to the 30Baht scheme?

Are foreigners, with a work permit also automatically members of this fund?

If it's a health fund, is it different to what has been discussed here over the last few days.

Are permenant resident holders allowed to join this fund?

Appreciate any details you can share. Thanks.

Edited October 16, 2013 by scorecard

[scorecard]

Ideally an expat scheme the same as or better than the Social Insurance would be good. That way you would be able to get care at Suan Dokh or Rajavej. That would be considerably better.

I would go for that as a Plan B as I can't get Social Insurance under my husbands company, as he is the owner. Relations of company owners (as well as the owners) are excluded from Social Insurance of that company.

Would you please share a bit more on the Social Insurance scheme. Is this the fund that all Thai employees pay into, as a broad social scheme? Or is ir specific to health, but different to the 30Baht scheme?

Are foreigners, with a work permit also automatically members of this fund?

If it's a health fund, is it different to what has been discussed here over the last few days.

Are permenant resident holders allowed to join this fund?

Appreciate any details you can share. Thanks.

seems that these cards have been issued at the following two hospitals:

- Nakornping hospital in Chiang Mai

- Sansai district hospital, Chiang Mai

Any TV members have any personal of family experiences at these hospitals? How much English spoken?

Would appreciate any comments you can offer. Thanks.

[FiftyTwo]

Any TV members have any personal of family experiences at these hospitals? How much English spoken?

Would appreciate any comments you can offer. Thanks.

I've used NakornPing many times, very good care generally but the public wards are a nightmare.

They mix the dying in with the slightly sick, so you have to endure noisy deaths around you.

They treated a family member (child) with dengue very well.

Pregnancy, really good care during the pregnancy and after the birth, with many home visits.

Small injuries, all treated well.

BUT, plenty of queuing, expect to spend all day.

Emergencies, treated very quickly.

The doctors all speak English, the nurses not at all.

To be allowed to use the private rooms, you need a family member with you 24/7.

Sansai District Hospital

If that's the one on the road from MaeJoe to Mae Rim, avoid at all costs, even the Thais avoid that one.

Edited October 16, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[beau thai]

Any TV members have any personal of family experiences at these hospitals? How much English spoken?

Would appreciate any comments you can offer. Thanks.

I've used NakornPing many times, very good care generally but the public wards are a nightmare.

They mix the dying in with the slightly sick, so you have to endure noisy deaths around you.

They treated a family member (child) with dengue very well.

Pregnancy, really good care during the pregnancy and after the birth, with many home visits.

Small injuries, all treated well.

BUT, plenty of queuing, expect to spend all day.

Emergencies, treated very quickly.

The doctors all speak English, the nurses not at all.

To be allowed to use the private rooms, you need a family member with you 24/7.

Sansai District Hospital

If that's the one on the road from MaeJoe to Mae Rim, avoid at all costs, even the Thais avoid that one.

We have used Sansai for outpatient treatment. No complaints-just the queuing and moving from pillar to post common with most hospitals most countries. Take a kindle or good book. Time passes pleasantly. Why do you say 'avoid at all costs'-what is your experience there?

[Sheryl]

Here's the link; I dug it up from the post mentioned above.

(Application form for Govt. health insurance for migrants/foreigners - in Thai)

http://udon-news.com/sites/default/files/files/05-recht/antrag-krankenversicherung.pdf

That seems to be just the forms, The actual MoPH directive is in the post I mentioned.

[elektrified]

I've taken a couple of people to Nakhornping over the years. Really poor quality care, bottom of the barrel. Lots of migrant workers injured on construction sites, gunshot wounds, uninsured motorists dying from accidents, etc. Basically what you would find in government hospitals with a trauma center in any country. But there are a few good doctors there like the eye surgeon in the pinned thread.

Sansai Hospital I have not been to nor have I ever met anyone who has been there. Looks very small.

[cmsally]

Here's the link; I dug it up from the post mentioned above.

(Application form for Govt. health insurance for migrants/foreigners - in Thai)

http://udon-news.com/sites/default/files/files/05-recht/antrag-krankenversicherung.pdf

That seems to be just the forms, The actual MoPH directive is in the post I mentioned.

Maybe this one :

http://203.157.12.21/cmshigthai/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/fwf2800.pdf

[Sheryl]

Ideally an expat scheme the same as or better than the Social Insurance would be good. That way you would be able to get care at Suan Dokh or Rajavej. That would be considerably better.

I would go for that as a Plan B as I can't get Social Insurance under my husbands company, as he is the owner. Relations of company owners (as well as the owners) are excluded from Social Insurance of that company.

Would you please share a bit more on the Social Insurance scheme. Is this the fund that all Thai employees pay into, as a broad social scheme? Or is ir specific to health, but different to the 30Baht scheme?

Are foreigners, with a work permit also automatically members of this fund?

If it's a health fund, is it different to what has been discussed here over the last few days.

Are permenant resident holders allowed to join this fund?

Appreciate any details you can share. Thanks.

Universal Health Care in Thailand is achieved throuhg a combination of 3 schemes:

1) A contribution-based Social Security system for the civil service. this also covers spouse and children. Unlike:

2) Regular Social Security which covers everyone employed in the formal private sector. You have to be (legally) employed for 13 months to get it. Once you do, as long as you keep up the payments you have it for life, even after you stop working.

It too is contribution based, there is a regular deduction from you paycheck.

3) The so-called "30 baht" or "gold card" scheme which picks up everyone else (Thai citizens, that is). This is free, not contribution based.

There are differences between the benefits under these various systems. Under SS, you must register at a hospital and get care only there (or at a higher level they refer you to) but you can choose which hospital from among those in your area which participates in the scheme (all government and some private hospitals). Under the "30 baht" scheme you have no choice of hospital, has to be the government hospital whose catchment area you live in. And likewise only get care there or at a higher level if referred.

All schemes cover most medical care but there are a few things that the "30 baht" covers that SS does not, I forget what exactly. The schemes are managed by different government agencies which is how that comes to be.

If you have a work permit and have been employed for 13 months, you should be under SS, if not, ask your employer why. And whatever you do, once under it never let it lapse, arrange to keep up the payments even after you stop working as this is by far the best form of inexpensive health insurance you can get. (Private insurance is better still, of course, but niot inexpensive. And many peopkle can't get it because of age or pre-exisitng conditions).

The scheme being discussed in this thread is a new arrangement whereby foreigners can get covered under the "30 baht" scheme on a contribution basis....2,200 baht a year but as I have explained that rate will almost surely rise as it wasn't calculated taking resident expats into account, only migrant workers who tend to be young and without chronic conditions.

[uptheos]

I've taken a couple of people to Nakhornping over the years. Really poor quality care, bottom of the barrel. Lots of migrant workers injured on construction sites, gunshot wounds, uninsured motorists dying from accidents, etc. Basically what you would find in government hospitals with a trauma center in any country. But there are a few good doctors there like the eye surgeon in the pinned thread.

Sansai Hospital I have not been to nor have I ever met anyone who has been there. Looks very small.

And one of the best Endodontists.

Dr. Joy also of Elite Smile

[worgeordie]

Any TV members have any personal of family experiences at these hospitals? How much English spoken?

Would appreciate any comments you can offer. Thanks.

I've used NakornPing many times, very good care generally but the public wards are a nightmare.

They mix the dying in with the slightly sick, so you have to endure noisy deaths around you.

They treated a family member (child) with dengue very well.

Pregnancy, really good care during the pregnancy and after the birth, with many home visits.

Small injuries, all treated well.

BUT, plenty of queuing, expect to spend all day.

Emergencies, treated very quickly.

The doctors all speak English, the nurses not at all.

To be allowed to use the private rooms, you need a family member with you 24/7.

Sansai District Hospital

If that's the one on the road from MaeJoe to Mae Rim, avoid at all costs, even the Thais avoid that one.

I have to disagree regarding San Sai Hospital, The nurses and Doctors are very caring and friendly, Yes you have to spend a bit of time there ,usually 3 /4 hrs, even in the UK its reported you have to wait 4 hours before you are seen

by a Doctor, Dont know about the Thais avoiding it as its always chok a block, regards Worgeordie

[MrBrad]

Where is Nakorn Ping hospital? I have a friend I want to get enrolled. thx.

Nakawn Ping Hospital is about 4 miles north of town on Highway 107 (Mae Rim Road).

Streetview map is here:

http://goo.gl/maps/pjE1o

San Sai Hospital is north of Mae Jo on the Highway 1260, the main road between Mae Jo and Mae Rim.

Streetview map is here:

http://goo.gl/maps/cGsZV

[Lizard2010]

Where is Nakorn Ping hospital? I have a friend I want to get enrolled. thx.

Nakawn Ping Hospital is about 4 miles north of town on Highway 107 (Mae Rim Road).

Streetview map is here:

http://goo.gl/maps/pjE1o

San Sai Hospital is north of Mae Jo on the Highway 1260, the main road between Mae Jo and Mae Rim.

Streetview map is here:

http://goo.gl/maps/cGsZV

Was wondering where they were.

Hope more Hospitals will be helping sign up people.

[NancyL]

Yesterday, representatives from Lanna Care Net and Deutscher Hilfsverein Thailand (German Help Association) met with the nurse at Nakorn Ping Hospital who is leading the hospital's effort to enroll resident expats into the new health insurance scheme.

We were successful in enrolling three people, all over age 70, unmarried and with retirement visas. They showed residency in Ampur Muang with letters from their condo or guesthouse offices.

However, it was evident that the health screening tests used with migrant workers aren't appropriate for elderly foreigners. So, a doctor ordered changes and it's very likely more changes are coming.

Since the program is still being developed, the staff looked to this one nurse for guidance. She realizes that guidelines need to be set, both for the use of the hospital staff and to inform foreigners.

Currently, Ben Svasti, who is the chairman of Lanna Care Net, the Honorary British Consul and a native Thai speaker, is working to produce a short, simple document, in Thai, English, German and perhaps other languages, explaining the program as it pertains to Nakorn Ping hospital. That document will be approved by hospital and appropriate Thai government officials. It will be posted on www.LannaCareNet.org and other websites. It will be available at the information desk at the hospital.

At this time, they are accepting enrollments, but it is best not to flood the hospital with applicants. The English-language skills of the staff are very limited, so it will be difficult for them to answer the many good questions posed in this thread. Plus, the program policy is still under development so some questions simply can't be answered yet. Once the summary document is available, I'll post links here on Thai Visa.

If you are unable to wait a week or two for program details to be set, then perhaps you can contact Lanna Care Net for an introduction and advice on how to enroll.

Meanwhile, one of the people enrolled yesterday will begin to pursue treatment at Nakorn Ping hospital under this insurance program for a chronic, degenerative condition that requires surgery to correct. We'll report on the progress of this case.

Nancy from Lanna Care Net

[tijnebijn]

Such great news , I'm very excited on this new development .

I want to add something as well . I've witnessed the staff and doctors at work in Nakornping , my mom went there where she got diagnosed with terminal cancer just a few months ago , she died a few weeks after her diagnoses at home , but I can say that the doctors and nurses were very friendly and helpful , as one poster said the wards you can describe as a nightmare , we saw several people die during her stay , but what can you expect from a hospital who just gives basic care to people on the 30 baht medical health scheme , which is fine . I paid 12-15 k , research x-ray nurse care and 6 days in hospital .The scanners and x-ray equipment from what I saw was all new , and really what do you care , when you are sick and do not have much money this hospital does a very good job indeed , they just want you to go better so the next patient can go in , its not like private hospitals where money is king . When from what I understand they cannot treat you they will transfer you to Suan Dok , so if your life as to be saved , they will , and with this scheme in place for us foreigners it could be one day ,I must say it makes my stay here much more comfortable .

I want to say thanks to Nancy and others who keep the information coming , and for the compassion , really great job .

I will go and try myself when things are a bit more clear .

[rebo]

Here's the link; I dug it up from the post mentioned above.

(Application form for Govt. health insurance for migrants/foreigners - in Thai)

http://udon-news.com/sites/default/files/files/05-recht/antrag-krankenversicherung.pdf

That seems to be just the forms, The actual MoPH directive is in the post I mentioned.

Since this form wears top left the logo of Udonthani Hospital I doubt it can be used in Chiang Mai. But I may be wrong ...

[Thailand]

This is potentially one of the biggest things to happen for Thai based expats for years,if not the biggest.

On a par with doing away with 90 day reporting or the advent of 5 or 10 year visas perhaps.

[jingjoke]

Kudos to K NancyL and Associates on trying to get a handle on this important topic.

May I ask if anyone has had the opportunity, or can relate someone's experience, with the medical facilities and prowess of staff at San Sai Hospital?

Do specialists and surgeons who do the rounds of hospitals within Chiangmai, also make visits to San Sai?

Cheers

[MESmith]

This is potentially one of the biggest things to happen for Thai based expats for years,if not the biggest.

On a par with doing away with 90 day reporting or the advent of 5 or 10 year visas perhaps.

I wouldn't put 90 day reporting abolition quite so far up the list of "game changing events"

[onthedarkside]

off topic posts removed