US Senate votes to raise debt cap, reopen government

[boomerangutang]

Below, just the tiniest tip of the Fed Gov't incessent wastefulness......

* While Congress struggled to recently pass a budget and an increase

to the national debt limit, one program made it through rather

easily, according to a September New York Times report: farm

subsidies for inactive "farmers." The subsidies were renewed,

based on a 2008 law, virtually assuring that more than 18,000 in-

name-only farmers (who received $24 million last year) will not be

cut off. Included, according to a 2012 Government Accountability

Office report, were recipients at 2,300 "farms" that had not grown

a single crop in five years (including 622 without a crop in 10

years). [New York Times, 9-10-2013]

newsoftheweird.com

[Mudcrab]

The outrageous spending - all across the board for Fed (and States) would be ludicrous, were it not so grave. There is so much gross waste and cheating in the system, it's hard to know where to start to comment on it. If some people who thought like me were in charge, Fed spending would come down by 30%.

30%...sounds like a similar figure bandied about with reference to the corruption cost in Thailand. Politicians...same the world over.

[Chicog]

Is there a single electable politician in Congress or the Senate (or the White House for that matter) who can operate without having to look after his paymasters' needs before those of his constituents?

[lannarebirth]

Is there a single electable politician in Congress or the Senate (or the White House for that matter) who can operate without having to look after his paymasters' needs before those of his constituents?

I think what changed in America is when the Executive Branch and later the Congress turned over responsibility for the nation's economy to the Federal Reserve. No politician has really needed to make any hard choices or do any hard bargaining as long as it is understood that the Fed is running the economy. The Fed should declare an end to their extraordinary measures and force politicians to come to agreements based on real growth, real revenues, real projections. That used to work in America and I think it could again.

[SinglePot]

Yep. They need to get real tough.

[Chicog]

Is there a single electable politician in Congress or the Senate (or the White House for that matter) who can operate without having to look after his paymasters' needs before those of his constituents?

I think what changed in America is when the Executive Branch and later the Congress turned over responsibility for the nation's economy to the Federal Reserve. No politician has really needed to make any hard choices or do any hard bargaining as long as it is understood that the Fed is running the economy. The Fed should declare an end to their extraordinary measures and force politicians to come to agreements based on real growth, real revenues, real projections. That used to work in America and I think it could again.

I don't. I think big business buying them off is what's changed.

[Publicus]

Is there a single electable politician in Congress or the Senate (or the White House for that matter) who can operate without having to look after his paymasters' needs before those of his constituents?

I think what changed in America is when the Executive Branch and later the Congress turned over responsibility for the nation's economy to the Federal Reserve. No politician has really needed to make any hard choices or do any hard bargaining as long as it is understood that the Fed is running the economy. The Fed should declare an end to their extraordinary measures and force politicians to come to agreements based on real growth, real revenues, real projections. That used to work in America and I think it could again.

In the United States the Constitution guarantees freedom of association, so anyone can belong to the Flat Earth Society or whatever.

The Fed has worked very well since it was established in 1913 - yes this is the centennial of the Federal Reserve System.

The Fed was established for a number of reasons, a principal one being to stabilize the banks and the banking system and to stabilize the funding of the US Government, which, until then, was constantly in crisis and needed to keep hitting the Republican bankers and their banks for operating loans.

J.P. Morgan used to lock bankers in his office into the night until they agreed on loans to keep the US Government operating (this was before multi millionaire Robber Barons and others had to pay a progressive income tax, another favorite target of the Flat Earthers).

When the Democratic party president Woodrow Wilson won election in 1912 he got Congress to establish the fed. After the Bretton Woods Agreement, establishing the dollar as the global currency and the world's reserve currency, the Fed has bailed us out numerous times.

Because the USD is the world's reserve currency, the US can get away with government deficits and debt other countries could never sustain, current account deficits as far as the eye can see, financial disasters such as occurred in 2008, a sometimes weak dollar, a sometimes strong dollar, and a sometimes dollar in between.

The US even can have a Flat Earth Society, no problem.

No rescue operation of the US economy and financial system by the Fed has been more successful, crucial, than the current ongoing one that began with the meltdown of 2008.

"Global" incidentally comes from the round object we used to see in our Social Science classrooms throughout our school years. Incredulous as it may seem, it would appear some people actually missed noticing it all those years.

[lannarebirth]

Is there a single electable politician in Congress or the Senate (or the White House for that matter) who can operate without having to look after his paymasters' needs before those of his constituents?

I think what changed in America is when the Executive Branch and later the Congress turned over responsibility for the nation's economy to the Federal Reserve. No politician has really needed to make any hard choices or do any hard bargaining as long as it is understood that the Fed is running the economy. The Fed should declare an end to their extraordinary measures and force politicians to come to agreements based on real growth, real revenues, real projections. That used to work in America and I think it could again.

I don't. I think big business buying them off is what's changed.

Big business buying them off has been going on since day one. What's changed is the dragging in of the population into an interest of what goes on on Wall Street. Not much that goes on there ought to be of any interest to the average citizen but now they are told their futures are dependent upon those charlatans and whatever they can extract from the public coffers. Either by way of stimulus, zero percent interest rates, lack of regulation or corporate tax leniency.

[Publicus]

*Deleted post edited out*

Your statement that, "The Fed should declare an end to their extraordinary measures and force politicians to come to agreements based on real growth, real revenues, real projections. That used to work in America and I think it could again," is amazing, astounding.

Did you happen to have noticed the government shutdown in a tea party and Republican party tantrum over ObamaCare? Or the fiscally irresponsible Republicans in the House trying to destroy the full faith and credit of the United States? Or the hate of Obama from the National Nut House that also is called the Congress?

How many gangs of eight or whatever of members of the House and the Senate have we had that were supposed to have reached some kind of Grand Bargain on the budget and deficit/debt, or simply a budget agreement, and have always failed?

Politicians in Washington working together? (If my bar above weren't recently prohibited functioning at TVF, I'd put in a laughing emoticon at this point.)

The tea party Republicans have to be thrown out in the elections next year, which presently is looking more possible than only a month ago, but even then the Republican party against Prez Obama is still the Republican party against Prez Obama. That's just the obvious reality now well into its fifth consecutive year.

The Fed serves very specific functions and does very specific things on an everyday basis that Congress and the Presidency absolutely cannot do. It's a matter of institutional competency.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts, inflammatory posts and replies have been deleted.

[davetrout]

The outrageous spending - all across the board for Fed (and States) would be ludicrous, were it not so grave. There is so much gross waste and cheating in the system, it's hard to know where to start to comment on it. If some people who thought like me were in charge, Fed spending would come down by 30%.

the rest of the world has to suffer for this B.S

[boomerangutang]

well, it could be worse. If the US were located in the Middle East, there would be Tea-Party type group which would insist on Sharia Law, or the Christian equivalent (an eye for an eye or destroying Sodom and Gommorah). But that's not the case, thank Bob.

[Baloo22]

Whoa, this is getting nuts. You guys do realize that part of the budget is both sides put stuff they refuse to take out and cannot agree on some taxes that make perfect sense and are very equitable, To try and cast total aversion to any one person or party in disingenuous or out of step with reality.

Yes. I agree. Politicians in D.C. from both parties need to be forced to start the country moving in the direction of fiscal sanity. Unfortunaltly it seems that only severe and drastic measures, such as refusal to raise the debt ceiling, will be able to force such a "sea change".

What you are saying is a large part of why the "Tea Party" movement started and gained so much traction among so many average working Americans. They saw members of both parties doing many of the same kind of irresponsible fiscal legislating. When each Representative and each Senator adds his own "bring home the bacon" earmarks and projects the total result each year is more, more, and more. And the debt ceiling has to be raised again, and again, and again, to pay for it all. Then add in smelly corrupt deals like the infamous "Corn Husker Kickback" and whacky pronouncements like "We have to pass the bill to see what is in it."

And now we can add the "Kentucky Kickback" to the list!

[StevieH]

*Deleted post edited out*

Your statement that, "The Fed should declare an end to their extraordinary measures and force politicians to come to agreements based on real growth, real revenues, real projections. That used to work in America and I think it could again," is amazing, astounding.

Did you happen to have noticed the government shutdown in a tea party and Republican party tantrum over ObamaCare? Or the fiscally irresponsible Republicans in the House trying to destroy the full faith and credit of the United States? Or the hate of Obama from the National Nut House that also is called the Congress?

How many gangs of eight or whatever of members of the House and the Senate have we had that were supposed to have reached some kind of Grand Bargain on the budget and deficit/debt, or simply a budget agreement, and have always failed?

Politicians in Washington working together? (If my bar above weren't recently prohibited functioning at TVF, I'd put in a laughing emoticon at this point.)

The tea party Republicans have to be thrown out in the elections next year, which presently is looking more possible than only a month ago, but even then the Republican party against Prez Obama is still the Republican party against Prez Obama. That's just the obvious reality now well into its fifth consecutive year.

The Fed serves very specific functions and does very specific things on an everyday basis that Congress and the Presidency absolutely cannot do. It's a matter of institutional competency.

interesting read on recent events and the possible future of the republican party. the GOP doesn't understand the america of today so simply shut it down:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/20/race-central-fear-angst-us-right?CMP=twt_fd

[Publicus]

Whoa, this is getting nuts. You guys do realize that part of the budget is both sides put stuff they refuse to take out and cannot agree on some taxes that make perfect sense and are very equitable, To try and cast total aversion to any one person or party in disingenuous or out of step with reality.

Yes. I agree. Politicians in D.C. from both parties need to be forced to start the country moving in the direction of fiscal sanity. Unfortunaltly it seems that only severe and drastic measures, such as refusal to raise the debt ceiling, will be able to force such a "sea change".

What you are saying is a large part of why the "Tea Party" movement started and gained so much traction among so many average working Americans. They saw members of both parties doing many of the same kind of irresponsible fiscal legislating. When each Representative and each Senator adds his own "bring home the bacon" earmarks and projects the total result each year is more, more, and more. And the debt ceiling has to be raised again, and again, and again, to pay for it all. Then add in smelly corrupt deals like the infamous "Corn Husker Kickback" and whacky pronouncements like "We have to pass the bill to see what is in it."

And now we can add the "Kentucky Kickback" to the list!

The Republican party refusal to increase the national debt, had that happened, would have caused interest rates throughout the world to explode, thus destroying the global economy, meaning a global depression.

The Republican party is completely irresponsible to think or believe it can refuse to increase the debt ceiling without any significant or substantial impact on the economy and financial system of the United States, to include US government instruments, or of the global economy.

In fact, the Republican party is insane to think it can allow the United States to default on even one debt payment, never mind default on a few debts, or some debts, or all debts.

The Republican party of the present and foreseeably would destroy the economy of the United States and precipitate a global depression. This is the party of ignorance and complete irresponsibility - of disastrous recklessness and destructiveness, the party of a global depression.

Americans know this and expressed their views of the contemporary Republican party during the shutdown and the face off concerning ObamaCare, and the debt ceiling fiasco.

Consequently, the days of the Republican party are over. They are the present day Whigs.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

[hellodolly]

Is there a single electable politician in Congress or the Senate (or the White House for that matter) who can operate without having to look after his paymasters' needs before those of his constituents?

I think what changed in America is when the Executive Branch and later the Congress turned over responsibility for the nation's economy to the Federal Reserve. No politician has really needed to make any hard choices or do any hard bargaining as long as it is understood that the Fed is running the economy. The Fed should declare an end to their extraordinary measures and force politicians to come to agreements based on real growth, real revenues, real projections. That used to work in America and I think it could again.

How did that work in the late 20s and 30s?

[hellodolly]

Whoa, this is getting nuts. You guys do realize that part of the budget is both sides put stuff they refuse to take out and cannot agree on some taxes that make perfect sense and are very equitable, To try and cast total aversion to any one person or party in disingenuous or out of step with reality.

Yes. I agree. Politicians in D.C. from both parties need to be forced to start the country moving in the direction of fiscal sanity. Unfortunaltly it seems that only severe and drastic measures, such as refusal to raise the debt ceiling, will be able to force such a "sea change".

What you are saying is a large part of why the "Tea Party" movement started and gained so much traction among so many average working Americans. They saw members of both parties doing many of the same kind of irresponsible fiscal legislating. When each Representative and each Senator adds his own "bring home the bacon" earmarks and projects the total result each year is more, more, and more. And the debt ceiling has to be raised again, and again, and again, to pay for it all. Then add in smelly corrupt deals like the infamous "Corn Husker Kickback" and whacky pronouncements like "We have to pass the bill to see what is in it."

And now we can add the "Kentucky Kickback" to the list!

The Republican party refusal to increase the national debt, had that happened, would have caused interest rates throughout the world to explode, thus destroying the global economy, meaning a global depression.

The Republican party is completely irresponsible to think or believe it can refuse to increase the debt ceiling without any significant or substantial impact on the economy and financial system of the United States, to include US government instruments, or of the global economy.

In fact, the Republican party is insane to think it can allow the United States to default on even one debt payment, never mind default on a few debts, or some debts, or all debts.

The Republican party of the present and foreseeably would destroy the economy of the United States and precipitate a global depression. This is the party of ignorance and complete irresponsibility - of disastrous recklessness and destructiveness, the party of a global depression.

Americans know this and expressed their views of the contemporary Republican party during the shutdown and the face off concerning ObamaCare, and the debt ceiling fiasco.

Consequently, the days of the Republican party are over. They are the present day Whigs.

Yes there is not one sitting republican that thought they could succeed in stopping the debt ceiling from being raised every one of them that refused to raise it knew that they would eventually raise it and that it was just going to cost the government more money closing it down. They also were trying to curb Obama care and get rid of it so that the big business insurance companies and the rich would still be able to get richer while the ability of the average American to get health care declined.

The one thing I have noticed here on this thread is how not a single one of the Republicans has admitted their part in causing it or come up with a plan to stop the Depression. Just knocked the Man for not doing it there way what ever nefarious way that was. they are keeping it a secret. [due to the freedom pf information act there was papers disclosed that Bush knew of the coming depression unless he did some thing to head it off he did nothing] Admittedly there was a chance he could not have stopped it but he could have tried.

Reminds me of a fellow in the building. If the Republicans say the sun will come up in the west and set in the east on odd number years he will believe it. He sends me out of context photo shopped e mails but when face to face not a word about the bad Democrats and the wonderful Republicans.

I am sure that some where in that mess of Republicans there are some honest caring members. They should join together and with draw from the party and start there own party. Imagine that a party made up of people who only care for the well being of Americans. Yes the Democrats also have some bad apples. But not enough to ruin the party.

[Scott]

Troll posts have been deleted. You are expected to post in a civil manner. If you can't, your posts will be deleted.

[Publicus]

*Deleted post edited out*

Your statement that, "The Fed should declare an end to their extraordinary measures and force politicians to come to agreements based on real growth, real revenues, real projections. That used to work in America and I think it could again," is amazing, astounding.

Did you happen to have noticed the government shutdown in a tea party and Republican party tantrum over ObamaCare? Or the fiscally irresponsible Republicans in the House trying to destroy the full faith and credit of the United States? Or the hate of Obama from the National Nut House that also is called the Congress?

How many gangs of eight or whatever of members of the House and the Senate have we had that were supposed to have reached some kind of Grand Bargain on the budget and deficit/debt, or simply a budget agreement, and have always failed?

Politicians in Washington working together? (If my bar above weren't recently prohibited functioning at TVF, I'd put in a laughing emoticon at this point.)

The tea party Republicans have to be thrown out in the elections next year, which presently is looking more possible than only a month ago, but even then the Republican party against Prez Obama is still the Republican party against Prez Obama. That's just the obvious reality now well into its fifth consecutive year.

The Fed serves very specific functions and does very specific things on an everyday basis that Congress and the Presidency absolutely cannot do. It's a matter of institutional competency.

interesting read on recent events and the possible future of the republican party. the GOP doesn't understand the america of today so simply shut it down:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/20/race-central-fear-angst-us-right?CMP=twt_fd

Republican pollster and political analyst Stu Rothenberg is a Republican who is serious about his reputation as a political analyst so I read him regularly.

His latest analysis of the Republicans' hissy fit over ObamaCare, shutting down the government, threatening the full faith and credit of the United States is informative and revealing.

I think the major point he makes is the significance of the historical shift in the view of the Republican party, from the party of adult fiscal and budgetary responsibility and solemn thinking to its present state as the party of complete fiscal and budgetary irresponsibility, recklessness and abandon. These are my words to describe Rothenberg's analysis, so I'll let Stu speak for himself, in the same or similar terms, such as "crazy" Republicans.

For GOP, the Damage Is Undeniable

Republicans got almost nothing out of the deal to re-open the government and raise the debt ceiling except, of course, that they lost another 10 percentage points in their favorable rating and looked less like an organized political party and more like a disorganized, confused rabble.

Small donors will be disenchanted that Republican officeholders caved on both the shutdown and debt ceiling, while the larger donors, who tend to be more pragmatic, are likely to sit on their cash for fear that the GOP will do something else crazy to threaten the economy and the party’s electoral prospects.

GOP insiders point out that while the party clearly has lost some ground in recent years among swing voters because of its position on cultural issues, the party’s great strength — at least up until now — was that it was generally seen by independents as fiscally responsible and prudent on economic matters. Now that argument may be more difficult for Republicans to make.

http://rothenbergpoliticalreport.com/news/article/for-gop-the-damage-is-undeniable

[metisdead]

Trolling posts have been removed.

[NeverSure]

good post just backs up the fact that many already know. That the Republicanss can not agree on the time of day using the same clock.

I had to laugh when I read this part.

They obviously are a clueless bunch. It was the Republicans who set the stage for the Depression and then departed the scene to throw rocks at the ones getting America out of it.

When you stop and think of it one war they started was to capture one man. Can you believe it a war to capture one man.

The other was under the pretext of a country having weapons of mass destruction. A baseless fact. How ever just by coincidence the Vice President had connections to Halliburton and awarded them billions of dollars in unbid upon contracts. What a coincidence. Don't know what Rumsfeld got out of the deal other than removed from office. A couple of years to late.

Your troll post stating that someone can't agree on the time of day using the same clock is just that. Nonsense and vitriol.

They "are" a clueless bunch because another bunch with little similarity to the current bunch "were" something 100 years ago. Can't you do better than to go back 100 years, clear off topic? While we're there, the Democrats again about broke the country trying to "stimulate" us out of the Great Depression and stimulus NEVER works. If it did, the $Trillions of dollars thrown at it globally the past 5 years would have us humming but global economies aren't showing that.

All we are is "Another day older and deeper in debt."

No, a war wasn't started to catch one man. It was started to show the world that if you attack the US, you will be tracked down to the ends of the earth for the rest of your life, which will be shortened. Anyone who befriends or helps you will also be killed. Attack the US again and the same thing will happen. Apparently you have forgotten 9/11 but we haven't.

Don't give me your "weapons of mass destructions" shit. Tony Blair, France, and a whole bunch other countries agreed by their own independent research that there were WMDs. They may or may not have been wrong, but don't hang it all on the US. The UK supplied about 1/3 of the troops in that Iraq invasion and was in that war up to its eyeballs as were several other countries.

Even Thailand had troops in that war, as did a couple dozen other countries.

Take off your blinders.

[Scott]

An off-topic, troll post has been deleted.

[notmyself]

Don't give me your "weapons of mass destructions" shit. Tony Blair, France, and a whole bunch other countries agreed by their own independent research that there were WMDs. They may or may not have been wrong, but don't hang it all on the US. The UK supplied about 1/3 of the troops in that Iraq invasion and was in that war up to its eyeballs as were several other countries.

True enough. Even after all these years, people still go on about Saddam not having any WMDs in spite of it being known that both the UK and US sold them to him. The big issue is where are they? We know some were shipped out including a large amount on it's way to Yemen which was seized but that was only a small percentage.

[boomerangutang]

Raising the debt ceiling has become a requirement of being in Congress.

The debt is like a building on fire. When it's a room or two, some firemen (responsible legislators) could make a credible effort to put it out (lessen runaway spending) with fire hoses and other methods. Now, the whole building is on fire, and all the firemen can do is stand back and watch.

Another way to look at it, is a forest which, in it's natural state, burns every few years (debt is brought down in reasonable measures. Or at least ways in which all parties suffer about the same amount of grief). Yet now, the forest of debt is so packed with tinder dry underbrush. It's bound to ignite and will harm the forest much more than if the underbrush had been burnt periodically.

The forest should be allowed to burn down. In other words, Uncle Sam should lower spending, and lower the debt ceiling, and let the financial markets and all else blow to smithereens. Then, while smoke is still coming from the ashes, develop a system of spending within their means. The US is spending wildly beyond its means, and Thailand is gearing up to do the same with the speedo train - which will primarily benefit China's merchants.

[NeverSure]

Well, the US stock market is up and pundits say it's because investors know the Fed can't stop QE. Of course they can't stop QE because it finances the debt which just had a ceiling increase, and also they have the mistaken belief that government "stimulus" will spur an economy. If it would, surely the $trillions thrown at the economy in the form of funny money stimulus in the past 5 years would have us rockin' and rollin'.

Right?

The jobs figures for the US last month are out today. There is a big miss. The street expected 180,000 new jobs but got only 148,000. This news also drives the stock market up because it assures that the Fed won't stop creating funny money and toughen things up. BTW, the average job creation per month for 2013 up until Oct. was 181,000.

Wall Street is drunk on the Fed's irrational behavior. Job creation goes down and debt goes up is good news if you smoke the right stuff.

So why aren't there more jobs? I can give you one reason. Obamacare going into effect. It requires each employer with a certain small number of employees to provide health care or pay a fine. Some small businesses don't have enough profit margin to absorb that cost.

In fact, a lot of people's hours are being cut back. The rule is that the employer has to provide insurance only for full time employees. Full time is set at working 30 hours per week or more. So suddenly people are finding their hours cut back to 29 per week. This is a really good thing for the low skilled, low paid workers, if you listen to the Obamacare cheerleaders. It's actually unintended consequences by the idiots who wrote that bill.

Also, the magic number of employees that triggers the law to require health insurance is 50. Any employer with 50 or more employees has to comply with Obamacare. So guess how many will suddenly have 49? Or 70, each working 29 hours per week? This creates a situation where fewer people working fewer hours are each doing more work for less pay.

More debt with higher debt ceiling = more Fed funny money = lower value of the dollar and fewer jobs but a much higher stock market (which tumbled during the shutdown) Are there really that many people who are nuts?

Thank you, thank you. It's all for the good of the people.

[Publicus]

Well, the US stock market is up and pundits say it's because investors know the Fed can't stop QE. Of course they can't stop QE because it finances the debt which just had a ceiling increase, and also they have the mistaken belief that government "stimulus" will spur an economy. If it would, surely the $trillions thrown at the economy in the form of funny money stimulus in the past 5 years would have us rockin' and rollin'.

Right?

The jobs figures for the US last month are out today. There is a big miss. The street expected 180,000 new jobs but got only 148,000. This news also drives the stock market up because it assures that the Fed won't stop creating funny money and toughen things up. BTW, the average job creation per month for 2013 up until Oct. was 181,000.

Wall Street is drunk on the Fed's irrational behavior. Job creation goes down and debt goes up is good news if you smoke the right stuff.

So why aren't there more jobs? I can give you one reason. Obamacare going into effect. It requires each employer with a certain small number of employees to provide health care or pay a fine. Some small businesses don't have enough profit margin to absorb that cost.

In fact, a lot of people's hours are being cut back. The rule is that the employer has to provide insurance only for full time employees. Full time is set at working 30 hours per week or more. So suddenly people are finding their hours cut back to 29 per week. This is a really good thing for the low skilled, low paid workers, if you listen to the Obamacare cheerleaders. It's actually unintended consequences by the idiots who wrote that bill.

Also, the magic number of employees that triggers the law to require health insurance is 50. Any employer with 50 or more employees has to comply with Obamacare. So guess how many will suddenly have 49? Or 70, each working 29 hours per week? This creates a situation where fewer people working fewer hours are each doing more work for less pay.

More debt with higher debt ceiling = more Fed funny money = lower value of the dollar and fewer jobs but a much higher stock market (which tumbled during the shutdown) Are there really that many people who are nuts?

Thank you, thank you. It's all for the good of the people.

The long train of possible horrors means the imagination is working in overdrive.

[NeverSure]

Well, the US stock market is up and pundits say it's because investors know the Fed can't stop QE. Of course they can't stop QE because it finances the debt which just had a ceiling increase, and also they have the mistaken belief that government "stimulus" will spur an economy. If it would, surely the $trillions thrown at the economy in the form of funny money stimulus in the past 5 years would have us rockin' and rollin'.

Right?

The jobs figures for the US last month are out today. There is a big miss. The street expected 180,000 new jobs but got only 148,000. This news also drives the stock market up because it assures that the Fed won't stop creating funny money and toughen things up. BTW, the average job creation per month for 2013 up until Oct. was 181,000.

Wall Street is drunk on the Fed's irrational behavior. Job creation goes down and debt goes up is good news if you smoke the right stuff.

So why aren't there more jobs? I can give you one reason. Obamacare going into effect. It requires each employer with a certain small number of employees to provide health care or pay a fine. Some small businesses don't have enough profit margin to absorb that cost.

In fact, a lot of people's hours are being cut back. The rule is that the employer has to provide insurance only for full time employees. Full time is set at working 30 hours per week or more. So suddenly people are finding their hours cut back to 29 per week. This is a really good thing for the low skilled, low paid workers, if you listen to the Obamacare cheerleaders. It's actually unintended consequences by the idiots who wrote that bill.

Also, the magic number of employees that triggers the law to require health insurance is 50. Any employer with 50 or more employees has to comply with Obamacare. So guess how many will suddenly have 49? Or 70, each working 29 hours per week? This creates a situation where fewer people working fewer hours are each doing more work for less pay.

More debt with higher debt ceiling = more Fed funny money = lower value of the dollar and fewer jobs but a much higher stock market (which tumbled during the shutdown) Are there really that many people who are nuts?

Thank you, thank you. It's all for the good of the people.

The long train of possible horrors means the imagination is working in overdrive.

What imagination? I'm quoting what's in the news, including the rules of Obamacare for employers. There is to be more debt, the Fed will continue making funny money, the dollar is down, and the stock market is booming.

The jobs report out today is way down but the market is up. Job creation being down means to those who believe in stimulus that there will be a continuation of QE. With the decrease in job creation coupled with new debt via funny money, there is no chance the Fed will soon stop QE.

The stock market dropped a lot during the shutdown, but shot up like a rocket with the new debt ceiling. It's up again today with news of poor job creation.

All of this, especially the poor job creation and even more debt is bad news to me. It's strange, but many posters on here deride the US for having so much debt. But then there are those who were cheering for it thinking Democrats were heroes for giving us more debt.

None of this is my imagination.

[Scott]

Nasty, inflammatory and off-topic posts have been removed along with replies.

Stay on topic.

[chuckd]

Sometimes the long train of possible horrors becomes a reality.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

90,609,000: Americans Not in Labor Force Climbs to Another Record

October 22, 2013 - 8:43 AM

By Terence P. Jeffrey

(CNSNews.com) - The number of Americans who are 16 years or older and who have decided not to participate in the nation's labor force has climbed to a record 90,609,000 in September, according to data released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

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In from July to August, according to BLS, Americans not participating in the labor force climbed from 89,957,000 to 90,473,000, pushing past 90,000,000 for the first time, with a one month increase of 516,000.

In September, it climbed again to 90,609,000, an increase of 136,000 during the month.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/90609000-americans-not-labor-force-climbs-another-record#sthash.ZdrFbBED.dpuf

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154,000 Fewer Women Held Jobs in September; Female Participation in Labor Force Matches 24-Year Low

October 22, 2013 - 9:44 AM

By Terence P. Jeffrey

(CNSNews.com) - American women participated in the nation’s labor force in September at a rate that matched the lowest level in 24 years, according to data released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

At the same time, the number of women actually holding jobs declined by 154,000 from August to September.

Because the number of women participating in the labor force declined in September, the drop in the number of women who were actually employed did not cause an increase in the unemployment rate for women.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/154000-fewer-women-held-jobs-september-female-participation-labor#sthash.IIFkPZtA.dpuf