Foreigner !

[Ubonquest]

_{After seeing what the refugees get away with in Australia I think they are much better off than me. They arrive there by boat, they have already destroyed their passports so they cant be identified, they are given shelter and fed then they are put onto social security and given housing, free hospital/doctors and never have to renew visas etc. They can work if they want to but most just refuse to because they are getting paid to do nothing by the govt anyway. Here with no passport you cannot get into the country, you must renew your visa every year and have a good reason or have heaps of money in the bank. You will never get govt help, you cannot just go out and get a job and the govt will never help you with accomodation and social security, no free hospital/doctors, you need a wp to work and only then in jobs that they allow, the overtones are extremely racist in Thailand but I accept that and love being here. I have seen just how much the refugees going to Australia are getting away with and yet they are bitching about it, go figure. If you did the same thing here that they are doing in Australia(burning down the facilities , bashing others, protesting etc) you would be kicked out of the country. Has being here changed my opinion of those going to Australia, yes, they are a pack of whinging bastards that just want everything for nothing. Do I like Thailand, yes I love it here, doesnt mean I agree with what they do but I love the people and the country plus with all the crap that the immigrants are causing in Australia I would much rather stay here anyway.}

The difference between you and the boat people is that they went to Australia as refugees, you come here to retire. I agree with you to the fact that there are lots of lazy people who abuse the system, i.e in France, Germany, Sweden.... I am not Australian but during my travel in the land of Down under, I've seen people from other nationalities sitting around, enjoying their life and probably never worked from the day they set foot there.

[ccarbaugh]

I feel somewhat ashamed and a little embarrassed that I accepted the racial stereotypes in my own home country of the migrants that were struggling to settle and make ends meet and learn a language and raise their kids...etc

in light of my experiences here I have become much more aware of their plight and more compassionate and understanding of the difficulties of uprooting culture,learning a new language and being transplanted to where, at first, little makes sense.

This applies to me as well. I think that on many occasions I could have been more friendly, more helpful, more patient.... oh well, it's all ancient history now. Now, I am so appreciative when I meet a Thai that sees me and treats me like a human-being- it almost makes it worth the wait!

[super22k]

Mass immigration into the UK is the fault and the choice of successive governments. Blame the politicians. The British people have never been asked. They have never been given a referendum.They have never been given a choice.

These legal and illegal people are out for what they can get,and by any means.Believe me,I know them.I have visited their countries and talked to many people. They all want to come to the UK because we are a soft touch. Why doesnt the UK treat these people like Thailand treats their immigrants.......end of problem. By the way,the Joseph Heller fan,who has no idea how to write dialogue,does not seem to have a clue as to what is going on. Maybe, he should stay in his little world of fiction.

[Thai at Heart]

 

No ,it hasn't changed my attitude at all .

I am English , but lived in Italy for a number of years befor moving to Thailand .

I have no problem with people of a more advanced culture coming to my country , contributing through work or simply of independent means .

People who appreciate the culture of my country and willing to adopt the British way of life . In Italy I lived in a small rural village , lived as my Italian neighbours do and spoke the language fluently . In Thailand I have given my wife a beautiful comfortable home , I have financially improved her lifestyle and that of her family . I respect the Thai culture and lifstyle and do not try to force western culture on my wife and her family .

What I object to , is primitive people migrating illegaly , who have nothing to offer , but seek to be dependent on the social benefits of my country and other European countries . Leaving racism out of it , many of these people are Moslim , want to exercise their religion , introduce sharia law and have their women dressed in black from head to foot , that is quite different .

Leaving racism out of it?

Islam is a religion...not a race

 

Race does not need to exist for racism to exist. People do not need to belong to a given race for us to be racist against them. Racism is not about race, it is about identifying groups (or tribes, or separate populations) (whether real or imaginary) and exhibiting prejudice against them

Does a statement cease to be prejudicial if it is in the vast majority, true?

[GuestHouse]

Does a statement cease to be prejudicial if it is in the vast majority, true?

No, it would still be prejudicial since the existence of a vast majority fitting a criteria is not proof of all fitting the criteria. So prejudicial in the root sense of the word.

And it would certainly be prejudicial if the existence of a 'vast majority fitting a criteria' was assumed without demonstration of testable evidence. In which case both the judgment and the basis of the judgement would be prejudicial, in the root sense of the word.

So your first challenge to demonstrate a lack of prejudice would be to prove the case of the 'vast majority fitting the given criteria' - and even then you're still not out of the woods.

The challenge comes down to one of demonstrating intellectual rigour - the lack of which is a defining characteristic of bigots.

[SeabagsFull]

Islam is a religion...not a race

 

Race does not need to exist for racism to exist. People do not need to belong to a given race for us to be racist against them. Racism is not about race, it is about identifying groups (or tribes, or separate populations) (whether real or imaginary) and exhibiting prejudice against them

Does a statement cease to be prejudicial if it is in the vast majority, true?

When Hitler referred to all Jews as an inferior species that must be stamped out, & the majority of the German people -- at least publically -- agreed, was his statement not still prejudicial?

[SeabagsFull]

Does a statement cease to be prejudicial if it is in the vast majority, true?

No, it would still be prejudicial since the existence of a vast majority fitting a criteria is not proof of all fitting the criteria. So prejudicial in the root sense of the word.

And it would certainly be prejudicial if the existence of a 'vast majority fitting a criteria' was assumed without demonstration of testable evidence. In which case both the judgment and the basis of the judgement would be prejudicial, in the root sense of the word.

So your first challenge to demonstrate a lack of prejudice would be to prove the case of the 'vast majority fitting the given criteria' - and even then you're still not out of the woods.

The challenge comes down to one of demonstrating intellectual rigour - the lack of which is a defining characteristic of bigots.

I agree with you, GuestHouse, but this is all too intellectual. Racism, bigotry, hatred of immigrants, these are all felt in the heart, emotions usually fed by puppet masters with differing agendas. It is only when we can begin to see other people; immigrants, rebels, even politicians; as human beings, can we begin to understand our connection to each other.

I was once part of the machine, a flag-waving American Republican in extremely fine shape physically. When I saw a fat diabetic or mother, e.g., I figured they were lazy or had a poor constitution, that they deserved their lot. I absolutely had no sympathy for them. One of the unfortunate facts of life is that when we're young & full of energy (e.g., Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan), we don't understand that it's even possible to exist without the same clear-view of the world that we have. And when an innocent person was murdered, I filed it away as either a result of a larger contamination of existence (e.g., the family & friends surrounding the victim) or as an act of God for reasons beyond my comprehension (neat trick religious leaders use to get you to ignore logic & the truth).

My personal awakening took place in stages. First, I was part of a search team in Pascagoula, Mississippi, that found the murdered body of a seven-year-old girl; not so easily dismissed. Next, I was assigned to a UN mission with officers from 33 countries; it was there that I learned we Americans are not at the center of the universe. Finally, I came down with a life-threatening illness that required 11 months of treatment, which detrimentally effected my thyroid. Over a period of about six months, I gained over 20Kg (approx. 50 lbs.). But what hit me the most was a complete loss of energy. After that I began to feel other peoples' struggles more; it was no longer simply black & white. Now I was one of those fat ugly lazy people on the side of the road that I despised as taking up too many of our resources.

I eventually recovered from the illness & lost most of the weight-gain, but my youthful days as a martial artist stud never returned. My health continues to decline for other reasons, & I have a really bad back with 8 screws in place. Still, I'm happy & can get around, so I'm not complaining. The one thing I regret most about my life is that my education had to come at such a high physical price.

I do believe that we are not born with hatred of others, that it is a culturally-grown phenomenon. Which begs the question, "who's war are we fighting?"

[benalibina]

Does a statement cease to be prejudicial if it is in the vast majority, true?

No, it would still be prejudicial since the existence of a vast majority fitting a criteria is not proof of all fitting the criteria. So prejudicial in the root sense of the word.

And it would certainly be prejudicial if the existence of a 'vast majority fitting a criteria' was assumed without demonstration of testable evidence. In which case both the judgment and the basis of the judgement would be prejudicial, in the root sense of the word.

So your first challenge to demonstrate a lack of prejudice would be to prove the case of the 'vast majority fitting the given criteria' - and even then you're still not out of the woods.

The challenge comes down to one of demonstrating intellectual rigour - the lack of which is a defining characteristic of bigots.

I agree with you, GuestHouse, but this is all too intellectual. Racism, bigotry, hatred of immigrants, these are all felt in the heart, emotions usually fed by puppet masters with differing agendas. It is only when we can begin to see other people; immigrants, rebels, even politicians; as human beings, can we begin to understand our connection to each other.

I was once part of the machine, a flag-waving American Republican in extremely fine shape physically. When I saw a fat diabetic or mother, e.g., I figured they were lazy or had a poor constitution, that they deserved their lot. I absolutely had no sympathy for them. One of the unfortunate facts of life is that when we're young & full of energy (e.g., Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan), we don't understand that it's even possible to exist without the same clear-view of the world that we have. And when an innocent person was murdered, I filed it away as either a result of a larger contamination of existence (e.g., the family & friends surrounding the victim) or as an act of God for reasons beyond my comprehension (neat trick religious leaders use to get you to ignore logic & the truth).

My personal awakening took place in stages. First, I was part of a search team in Pascagoula, Mississippi, that found the murdered body of a seven-year-old girl; not so easily dismissed. Next, I was assigned to a UN mission with officers from 33 countries; it was there that I learned we Americans are not at the center of the universe. Finally, I came down with a life-threatening illness that required 11 months of treatment, which detrimentally effected my thyroid. Over a period of about six months, I gained over 20Kg (approx. 50 lbs.). But what hit me the most was a complete loss of energy. After that I began to feel other peoples' struggles more; it was no longer simply black & white. Now I was one of those fat ugly lazy people on the side of the road that I despised as taking up too many of our resources.

I eventually recovered from the illness & lost most of the weight-gain, but my youthful days as a martial artist stud never returned. My health continues to decline for other reasons, & I have a really bad back with 8 screws in place. Still, I'm happy & can get around, so I'm not complaining. The one thing I regret most about my life is that my education had to come at such a high physical price.

I do believe that we are not born with hatred of others, that it is a culturally-grown phenomenon. Which begs the question, "who's war are we fighting?"

Bring the mind to the heart and let the heart to be understood by using the mind !

[SeabagsFull]

Bring the mind to the heart and let the heart to be understood by using the mind !

"The heart is the eyes to the soul," Emmanuel's Book by Pat Rodegast.

I do believe that the heart understands things quite well, all by itself, that it is the mind that confuses it. If you look at the purity of babies' or animals' hearts, you'll get a feel for this.

[RikDao]

I don't take social housing,healthcare,state handouts,from Thailand.

Unlike the ever increasing amount of migrants to the UK, some legal,many alleged asylum seekers.

They bring nothing with them and abuse every avenue available to them to gain financially.

They are slowly bringing the country to its knees.

Yeah, at least the British brought "civilization" with them when they colonized (plundered?) these countries...

[super22k]

You should remember when the British colonisied these countries they also built hospitals,communications,roads,houses and many other things that benefited the native people. Even today the only parts of Africa that have a reasonable standard of living are the parts that used to be colonised.

Take Egypt.Cairo was built and modernised by the British.Now the Egyptians benefit from it. The Suez canal was built and paid for by the British. Now the Egyptians benefit from it.

Britain has given the world so much. The television set you watch was invented by Britain.The jet engine that flew you to Thailand is British.The language you speak is British. etc.etc......even the Computer you are using right now was invented by the British.The world should be grateful to Britain for giving them so much.

[StreetCowboy]

You should remember when the British colonisied these countries they also built hospitals,communications,roads,houses and many other things that benefited the native people. Even today the only parts of Africa that have a reasonable standard of living are the parts that used to be colonised.

Take Egypt.Cairo was built and modernised by the British.Now the Egyptians benefit from it. The Suez canal was built and paid for by the British. Now the Egyptians benefit from it.

Britain has given the world so much. The television set you watch was invented by Britain.The jet engine that flew you to Thailand is British.The language you speak is British. etc.etc......even the Computer you are using right now was invented by the British.The world should be grateful to Britain for giving them so much.

No need. We did not do these things for the gratitude of Johnny Foreigner, but because it was right and beneficial to do so.

SC

[GuestHouse]

You should remember when the British colonisied these countries they also built hospitals,communications,roads,houses and many other things that benefited the native people. Even today the only parts of Africa that have a reasonable standard of living are the parts that used to be colonised.

Take Egypt.Cairo was built and modernised by the British.Now the Egyptians benefit from it. The Suez canal was built and paid for by the British. Now the Egyptians benefit from it.

Britain has given the world so much. The television set you watch was invented by Britain.The jet engine that flew you to Thailand is British.The language you speak is British. etc.etc......even the Computer you are using right now was invented by the British.The world should be grateful to Britain for giving them so much.

This is the view from one side of the Colonist / Colonised relationship.

In the interest of balanced argument you should spend time examining the view from other side while keeping in mind who wrote the history you've been taught.

[super22k]

I have listened to the anti-colonialism view before and never been convinced.To be controvercial,I see nothing wrong with an intelligent organised country going to a disorganised unintelligent country where people live in utter poverty, seeming to prefer lying in the sun all day, to the colonialists who show drive,initiative and work hard to improve the standard of living.

OK the colonialists want something out of it for themselves. But dont all companies and agencies want something out of it themselves? Arent we all 10%ers?

I think these brave British people who went to these countries deserve to be honoured.

[RikDao]

I have listened to the anti-colonialism view before and never been convinced.To be controvercial,I see nothing wrong with an intelligent organised country going to a disorganised unintelligent country where people live in utter poverty, seeming to prefer lying in the sun all day, to the colonialists who show drive,initiative and work hard to improve the standard of living.

OK the colonialists want something out of it for themselves. But dont all companies and agencies want something out of it themselves? Arent we all 10%ers?

I think these brave British people who went to these countries deserve to be honoured.

Just to clarify: I'm American, with 50% English blood, and like 99.8% of Americans, I love England, no question about it. I love Shakespeare, Byron, Churchill, Julie Christie, Mick Jagger, Bono, and a whole bunch of others. But the English did murder a lot of people in their colonies, regardless of how many railroads they built, and they stole a lot of things.

And please, I know, I KNOW the Americans are guilty of a lot of crimes, too, some of them ongoing as we speak.

(Chill out, the Bono thing was a joke).

[super22k]

Ok Rikdao,some people were killed.Things havent changed much.But mankind progresses through agressiveness. Same in the animal kingdom.

But things are taken out of context. What was acceptable a couple of hundred years ago is now a crime. You know what I mean.

By the way,I love the USA. The American people are the friendliest people in the world. ( but why is Julie Christie on you list.Her lips are out of sinc.?)

[super22k]

It is fashionable to take things out of context. What was acceptable 200 years ago is now a crime. But I love the USA and their friendly people. I am not a great fan of Julie Christie so ,if you want,I will send her to you as a Christmas present.

[zydeco]

You should remember when the British colonisied these countries they also built hospitals,communications,roads,houses and many other things that benefited the native people. Even today the only parts of Africa that have a reasonable standard of living are the parts that used to be colonised.

Take Egypt.Cairo was built and modernised by the British.Now the Egyptians benefit from it. The Suez canal was built and paid for by the British. Now the Egyptians benefit from it.

Britain has given the world so much. The television set you watch was invented by Britain.The jet engine that flew you to Thailand is British.The language you speak is British. etc.etc......even the Computer you are using right now was invented by the British.The world should be grateful to Britain for giving them so much.

The direct ancestor of modern television, as we know it, comes from Philo T. Farnsworth in the US, not Baird's mechanical system developed in Britain.

[benalibina]

On topic again please.

[StreetCowboy]

On topic again please.

How do fellow members feel about Johnny Foreigners representing their country at sports?

Personally, I'm delighted to have fellows like Danny Brough and Majid Haq pulling on a thistled shirt.

SC

Haq'sfiPaisley, yetoolye

Edited October 19, 2013 by StreetCowboy

[GuestHouse]

I have listened to the anti-colonialism view before and never been convinced.To be controvercial,I see nothing wrong with an intelligent organised country going to a disorganised unintelligent country where people live in utter poverty, seeming to prefer lying in the sun all day, to the colonialists who show drive,initiative and work hard to improve the standard of living.

OK the colonialists want something out of it for themselves. But dont all companies and agencies want something out of it themselves? Arent we all 10%ers?

I think these brave British people who went to these countries deserve to be honoured.

Where to start.....?

You clearly have only the sketchiest of ideas about the British Empire or how it functioned

Have a read of this .. there's a chance you might learn something.

http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.ae/2010/06/early-british-industrial-revolution-and.html

[GuestHouse]

Cast your mind back to Britain before the 'curse of immigration'.... Let's be brutally honest now.... The food was <deleted>.

Sorry to remind you but.... White pepper, fresh garlic near impossible to find, but you could get garlic salt.

The best meal in town started with onion soup followed by an over cooked (and tough steak) which you had to have with mushroom sauce, followed by black forrest gateau all washed down with a bottle of sour Liebfraumilch - you might, if you are lucky, get a fresh brewed coffee (been standing on the hot plate for three hours) if you were in a posh restaurant - Posh equals a few french names in the restaurant and floss wall paper.

The local cafe was a treat, mugs of tea out of an earn, chicory laced coffee and a bowl of sugar at the counter, full of lumps of tea/coffee stained sugar and a communal teaspoon secured on the end of a piece of string.

Three choices of sandwiches, all on thin plain white bread with margarine - cheese and onion, ham, and fish paste.

Something exotic - spaghetti out of a tin or a Dried Vesta Chinese out a box.

And all that if you were treating yourself by eating out.

Otherwise the you could stay home and have over cooked vegetables served up with meat that would not be allowed to be sold anywhere else in Europe.

FACT - The US military in the UK through the 60s~80s sourced all their meat outside of the UK, that not shipped from the US was purchased from the Netherlands - British meat did not come up to the quality standards.

The good old days before Johnny foreigner turned up and taught the British about food.

[super22k]

Food. No one is discussing food. Your post is quite funny but untrue. You see,in Britain the main thing is no one starves to death like thousands do in other countries. Everyone is well fed. I have always eaten well in England. Ever heard of Hotpot,Steak and Kidney pie, Sunday roast etc..........real grub! You have been seduced by all these celebrity Chefs. British food is great.

[StreetCowboy]

Food. No one is discussing food. Your post is quite funny but untrue. You see,in Britain the main thing is no one starves to death like thousands do in other countries. Everyone is well fed. I have always eaten well in England. Ever heard of Hotpot,Steak and Kidney pie, Sunday roast etc..........real grub! You have been seduced by all these celebrity Chefs. British food is great.

GH is trying to appear more cosmopolitan, after being given a bashing for commenting on how nice it would be to live in England. Personally, after haggis, neeps and tatties, haddock and chips, and new potatoes with parsley and butter, I struggle to see how anyone could hanker for anything more foreign, but as others have said, the Empire blessed us with year-round fresh produce, the finest and most exotic cuisines from the corners of the globe, and as a million Poles and Ethiopians will tell you, there are none as fortunate as the British.

SC

[GuestHouse]

Food. No one is discussing food. Your post is quite funny but untrue. You see,in Britain the main thing is no one starves to death like thousands do in other countries. Everyone is well fed. I have always eaten well in England. Ever heard of Hotpot,Steak and Kidney pie, Sunday roast etc..........real grub! You have been seduced by all these celebrity Chefs. British food is great.

I was trying to help you out with a topical digression, because quite clearly when it comes to understanding British Colonialism you are hopelessly lost in what appear to be half forgotten memories of old movie newsreels.

[GuestHouse]

Food. No one is discussing food. Your post is quite funny but untrue. You see,in Britain the main thing is no one starves to death like thousands do in other countries. Everyone is well fed. I have always eaten well in England. Ever heard of Hotpot,Steak and Kidney pie, Sunday roast etc..........real grub! You have been seduced by all these celebrity Chefs. British food is great.

GH is trying to appear more cosmopolitan, after being given a bashing for commenting on how nice it would be to live in England. Personally, after haggis, neeps and tatties, haddock and chips, and new potatoes with parsley and butter, I struggle to see how anyone could hanker for anything more foreign, but as others have said, the Empire blessed us with year-round fresh produce, the finest and most exotic cuisines from the corners of the globe, and as a million Poles and Ethiopians will tell you, there are none as fortunate as the British.

SC

With the exception of a very few restaurants in London and the major cities, the exotic food of the empire didn't start appearing on plates back in the UK until well into the 70s.

Super22K - As for 'no one starves in the UK' read up on the history of food banks in the UK, why and how they were started. The 'Trussell Trust' might help fill another gaping hole in your education.

Edited October 19, 2013 by GuestHouse

[StreetCowboy]

Food. No one is discussing food. Your post is quite funny but untrue. You see,in Britain the main thing is no one starves to death like thousands do in other countries. Everyone is well fed. I have always eaten well in England. Ever heard of Hotpot,Steak and Kidney pie, Sunday roast etc..........real grub! You have been seduced by all these celebrity Chefs. British food is great.

GH is trying to appear more cosmopolitan, after being given a bashing for commenting on how nice it would be to live in England. Personally, after haggis, neeps and tatties, haddock and chips, and new potatoes with parsley and butter, I struggle to see how anyone could hanker for anything more foreign, but as others have said, the Empire blessed us with year-round fresh produce, the finest and most exotic cuisines from the corners of the globe, and as a million Poles and Ethiopians will tell you, there are none as fortunate as the British.

SC

With the exception of a very few restaurants in London and the major cities, the exotic food of the empire didn't start appearing on plates back in the UK until well into the 70s.

Super22K - As for 'no one starves in the UK' read up on the history of food banks in the UK, why and how they were started. The 'Trussell Trust' might help fill another gaping hole in your education.

That's all before my time; when I was a much younger little boy than I am today we had Italian chippies and ice cream parlours, and Cantonese chinkies in every town. the biggest difference I can recall is that in the old days, fruit and veg used to be seasonal.

And sugar rationing, obviously, though that was only a problem as it occurred during jamming season

SC

Edited October 19, 2013 by StreetCowboy

[wwest5829]

Yep.

i have to show 800000 Baht every year, otherwise I have to leave immediately.

If they would do the same in our home countries, there would be much less problems.

And a second thing i have learned: foreigners never integrate. It is a leftist myth. The best you could demand that foreigners follow the rules and have a proper attitude. That's what i do here. That's what people in our home countries should demand from foreigners as well.

Thanks but from my DNA, my Scot-Irish-Welsh-German blood begs to differ. While proud of the lands of my fore Fathers, I am an American. Perhaps your vision is limited to current time period and not the long run? Over many years American traditions and cultural beliefs have changed as a result of new immigrant groups and, yes, perhaps you were there when we barred the Irish, the Chinese and Japanese and then there were the Southern Europeans who we did not understand and we're not of WASP culture but in the end.....well, judge us as you wish but we represent all the cultures of the world.

[GreenSnapper]

You should remember when the British colonisied these countries they also built hospitals,communications,roads,houses and many other things that benefited the native people. Even today the only parts of Africa that have a reasonable standard of living are the parts that used to be colonised.

Take Egypt.Cairo was built and modernised by the British.Now the Egyptians benefit from it. The Suez canal was built and paid for by the British. Now the Egyptians benefit from it.

Britain has given the world so much. The television set you watch was invented by Britain.The jet engine that flew you to Thailand is British.The language you speak is British. etc.etc......even the Computer you are using right now was invented by the British.The world should be grateful to Britain for giving them so much.

This is the view from one side of the Colonist / Colonised relationship.

In the interest of balanced argument you should spend time examining the view from other side while keeping in mind who wrote the history you've been taught.

Just give us some examples, which of the dozens of incredibly corrupt, bloody and cruel dictatorships in Africa shall we consider "the other side" and shall listen to?

Of course it is not only the anti-colonial fighters from Africa you may consider, but it is also worth to mention the great anti-colonial fighter in Asia, named Pol Pot.

[GuestHouse]

Just give us some examples, which of the dozens of incredibly corrupt, bloody and cruel dictatorships in Africa shall we consider "the other side" and shall listen to?

Of course it is not only the anti-colonial fighters from Africa you may consider, but it is also worth to mention the great anti-colonial fighter in Asia, named Pol Pot.

He's perhaps not well enough to give you his side of the view, but I'm sure Nelson Mandela would have something to teach you.

As would the Boars - read some history on the fine and upstanding British treatment of the Boars, or more precisely the women and children of Boar fighters who were incarcerated in concentration camps - starvation of civilian families a British weapon of war.

Remind me GS, which colonial power was Pol Pot fighting?