helmets

[villagefarang]

I understand that most riders crash and that they think it is acceptable. Some even boast about their crashes but I am not one of those. For me, mistakes are not acceptable and seldom lead to learning or increased skills.

Sure one can easily hit mid 30s on a good downhill line but no way I am doing that on ruts, rocks or with limited visibility. Part of being and staying healthy, is being able to ride. If you are injured it can have a detrimental effect on your future ability to ride as well as an immediate effect. Pushing 60 I have nothing to prove but a lot to lose if I behave carelessly.

An off court injury left me unable to play squash, which was my favorite sport. That leaves me with no intention of screwing up when I am off in the middle of nowhere on my bike.

Part of me would love to share some of my wonderful routes with others and it almost feels selfish that I never see anyone on the trails I ride. A bigger part of me, however, doesn’t want to be responsible for others and what they may end up doing on the trails.

I believe in letting people do whatever they want but I don’t enjoy being put in a situation where I have to clean up their mess. I guess I am not what most people would call a mountain biker. I am just a guy who loves riding as a way of getting out into nature and seeing things I can’t see from the road.

Okay that is probably much more than anyone wants to know but I felt like sharing. My apologies.

Edited December 20, 2013 by villagefarang

[bobfish]

villagefarang quote: 'I guess I am not what most people would call a mountain biker. I am just a guy who loves riding as a way of getting out into nature and seeing things I can’t see from the road."

Sans helmet? Fair enough, in a Darwinian kinda way.

For me, I'm comfortable with calling myself a mountain biker and also a [deep breath] roadie . I'll keep wearing a helmet.

See you on the trails - or maybe not.

[chiangmaiexpat]

I understand that most riders crash and that they think it is acceptable. Some even boast about their crashes but I am not one of those. For me, mistakes are not acceptable and seldom lead to learning or increased skills.

It's mountain biking, villagefarang, not brain surgery. Mistakes are always possible and acceptable, but negligence and overestimation of one's capabilities probably aren't. Even expert riders do fall, but they take precautions. For me, protective clothing is for mountain biking what ropes and belay are for rock climbing. An element of risk always remains... goes for all action sports.

I don't know how to learn wheelies, endos, manuals, jumps, or any technique without pushing one's limits. I still have to meet the expert rider who got to this level without crashes and bruises.

Part of me would love to share some of my wonderful routes with others and it almost feels selfish that I never see anyone on the trails I ride. A bigger part of me, however, doesn’t want to be responsible for others and what they may end up doing on the trails.

By all means, do share them. I am sure people will appreciate it, and you aren't responsible for their actions. I also like to explore, see new trails, be out in the woods and take pictures. The great thing about mountain biking is that it combines all of this.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[villagefarang]

Not everyone has the goal of learning tricks, I know I don’t. I also have no illusion of becoming an “expert” anything, at my age. That would be too narrow a focus, anyway. Mistakes are fine for others but I look at things differently.

I disagree about the responsibility thing. If someone I am riding with does something stupid and gets hurt, I can’t exactly walk away from that, and can’t imagine anyone who would. I understand that we look at riding differently, but I am okay with that and wouldn’t try to change your mind or suggest anyone do things my way. There are many trails through life, just like on the bike.

[GarryP]

Another thing to remember in hot Thailand is the air flow. Cheaper helmets often have less openings (holes). Keep in mind: Fit, weight, air-flow, quality and design. And last but not least, the price tag

But most important: You should feel good wearing it. If not you most likely will not wear the helmet.

This one actually seems directed at me. I bought a helmet when I upgraded to my hybrid. I do all my cycling in Bangkok and environs, but I feel such a tool in my helmet, not to say hot, that I rarely wear it. I usually wear a baseball cap instead.

I have come a cropper twice, both at low speed, but so far, touch wood, not suffered any injuries apart from to my pride. I need to find a helmet that I "feel good wearing", but the ones I like (hardshell style) are probably not suitable to hot climes, although I see many locals wearing them. Oh well!!!

Edited December 23, 2013 by GarryP

[A1Str8]

Y'all should wear full face.

[el jefe]

I'm with VillageFarang. My theory is: Prevent the accident rather than trying to lessen the injury after the accident.

That said, yesterday my head made contact with the ground for the second time in the last 550,000 kms. I've got a nice cut and some road rash on my scalp. Had I been wearing a helmet, it probably would have broken and I would have said it saved my life.

Wear a helmet. Don't wear a helmet. Analyze the risk. Decide for yourself. Ride safely.

[wantan]

We are all old enough to decide on our own. I wear a helmet and try to avoid accidents too

I dont wear a helmet when going to the supermarket. But sport only with helmet. I sometimes go 60kmh downhill on tarmac. When doing exercise in the heat you lose some concentration. When riding in a group others can cause you to crash. I feel safer with helmet. If others do not thats OK too. I rode 30 years without, now that i own helmets i use them.

[villagefarang]

Wow, 60 on a downhill sounds pretty fast to me. I seldom get over 50 on tarmac or high 30s on dirt.

I remember asking the guy at my bike shop about helmets and to my surprise he didn’t try to sell me one. He asked what kind of riding I did and said it sounded like I really didn’t need one. He on the other hand does were a helmet because he is out on the highways doing training rides with a group of young aspiring roadies most mornings.

Basically if not riding in a group or in traffic, where someone else’s stupidity could cause you to crash, he thought I would be okay. I figure riding alone on dirt with no traffic, there is only one guy who can potentially do something stupid, and he does what I tell him to do. Sadly he is the only one who listens to me.

[StreetCowboy]

I would estimate that 75% of my mtb rides are on dirt with the remainder being quiet village roads connecting the dirt. My rides are mainly 40-50 km and I average around 20 km/h, give or take depending on the terrain. I ride alone and do not wear a helmet. I use a farmer hat with a skirt around it for sun protection.

I am not overly aggressive and I am not a klutz, so don’t fall off of things. I never dropped my motorcycle and I don’t drop my mtb. That said, if I do come across a different kind of headgear which I like more than what I am wearing I will not be reluctant to change. I just don’t feel it is necessary to conform to biking norms unless you are entering competitions where they require certain things.

I have a picture for everything so here is an old shot that shows what I continue to wear. The bike itself has a bunch of new stuff on it, most recently I added custom wheels and new rubber.

Crivvens! that looks a lot sweatier than my helmet. I've got no intention of coming off my bike, but I never did. Not even going down to the cross-roads to deliver the papers in the morning before I skited on my arse on the black ice.

Unlike you, I have family depending on my income,so regardless of what I think, they deserve a helmet.

SC

[villagefarang]

Crivvens! that looks a lot sweatier than my helmet. I've got no intention of coming off my bike, but I never did. Not even going down to the cross-roads to deliver the papers in the morning before I skited on my arse on the black ice.

Unlike you, I have family depending on my income,so regardless of what I think, they deserve a helmet.

SC

I am more concerned with sun exposure than sweat but it is very light weight and breaths pretty well. I am fine until it hits the mid 30s. These days it is actually chilly in the shade or on a quick downhill but I don't expect that to last much longer.

[el jefe]

Crivvens! that looks a lot sweatier than my helmet. I've got no intention of coming off my bike, but I never did. Not even going down to the cross-roads to deliver the papers in the morning before I skited on my arse on the black ice.

Unlike you, I have family depending on my income,so regardless of what I think, they deserve a helmet.

SC

I am more concerned with sun exposure than sweat but it is very light weight and breaths pretty well. I am fine until it hits the mid 30s. These days it is actually chilly in the shade or on a quick downhill but I don't expect that to last much longer.

Exactly!

Everyone gets to choose their risks. I'm sure more people die from melanoma than cycling related injuries and you've chosen to reduce that risk.

I have a friend who would never go out riding without his helmet but every time we stop for a break, he lights up a cigarette.

Someone earlier in this thread said that helmets were just fashion accessories. I think the Thais have proven this. None of my Thai friends would ever be seen riding without a helmet. But I've seen just about all of them riding their motorbikes at night without a helmet.

Why is it that riding without a helmet creates such a controversy but every other risk we take doesn't?

[StreetCowboy]

Crivvens! that looks a lot sweatier than my helmet. I've got no intention of coming off my bike, but I never did. Not even going down to the cross-roads to deliver the papers in the morning before I skited on my arse on the black ice.

Unlike you, I have family depending on my income,so regardless of what I think, they deserve a helmet.

SC

I am more concerned with sun exposure than sweat but it is very light weight and breaths pretty well. I am fine until it hits the mid 30s. These days it is actually chilly in the shade or on a quick downhill but I don't expect that to last much longer.

Exactly!

Everyone gets to choose their risks. I'm sure more people die from melanoma than cycling related injuries and you've chosen to reduce that risk.

I have a friend who would never go out riding without his helmet but every time we stop for a break, he lights up a cigarette.

Someone earlier in this thread said that helmets were just fashion accessories. I think the Thais have proven this. None of my Thai friends would ever be seen riding without a helmet. But I've seen just about all of them riding their motorbikes at night without a helmet.

Why is it that riding without a helmet creates such a controversy but every other risk we take doesn't?

I'd be more tempted to digress on perils of smoking or melanoma on a thread that was not titled "Helmets". If I was that worried about melanoma, I'd not cycle wearing shorts and a tee-shirt. Or maybe I'd slap some lard on my balding pate.

SC

[fdimike]

I have only two short questions to ask. Do you wear a safety belt while driving a car? Why? The obvious answer as far as I'm concerned is to prevent injuries/death IF involved in an accident. The same applies to a bicycling helmet. You can say the same thing about any sport as nearly all use safety equipment of one sort or the other. I wear a helmet ALL the time here in Thailand as do 99% of the westerners/Thais I ride with.

Edited December 27, 2013 by fdimike

[bobfish]

I would estimate that 75% of my mtb rides are on dirt with the remainder being quiet village roads connecting the dirt. My rides are mainly 40-50 km and I average around 20 km/h, give or take depending on the terrain. I ride alone and do not wear a helmet. I use a farmer hat with a skirt around it for sun protection.

I am not overly aggressive and I am not a klutz, so don’t fall off of things. I never dropped my motorcycle and I don’t drop my mtb. That said, if I do come across a different kind of headgear which I like more than what I am wearing I will not be reluctant to change. I just don’t feel it is necessary to conform to biking norms unless you are entering competitions where they require certain things.

I have a picture for everything so here is an old shot that shows what I continue to wear. The bike itself has a bunch of new stuff on it, most recently I added custom wheels and new rubber.

Nice to see someone can think for themselves.

Think for themselves.... good. So I'm trying to get a handle on the risk management thought process:

Situation: Bicycle riding on paved and unpaved surfaces, Claimed speeds of [up to] 50kph and 30kph respectively. Claimed exploration of new/unknown trails.

Direct threats and mitigation:

Variable, uneven, loose trail surface - Mountain Bicycle optimised with suspension, tyres, brakes etc

Possible hiking/walking offroad. Pedal grip.Shinstrike. - Appropriate footwear and longer padded socks.

Butt/scrotal shafing/ soreness. Restricted pedalling action - Appropriate and optimised lycra cycling shorts.

Handlebar slip. Blisters/callouses. Impact protection - Appropriate and optimised cycling gloves.

Eye damage from Bug/dirt ingress - Appropriate glasses

Heat - Appropriate and lightweight breathable attire.

UV protection - Gloves, socks, long sleeved shirt, broad brimmed hat and nape protection.

Broad brimmed hat and nape protector distraction/separation/flutter above 30kph - nil.

Inadvertant fall/impact injuries- gloves, shoes. Longer sleeved shirt which may provide minimal elbow/shoulder scrape protection. Head; nil.

Summation:

Generally protected for the intended activity. The emphasis on protection against UV rather than the fall/injury threats - particularly in relation to the [most] important head protection is not easily comprehended. In light of the significant expenditure and thought given to the appropriate purchase of other cycling specific items, the exclusion of a helmet would, in this study case, be indicative of perceived, rather than actual threat.

QED

[fdimike]

You might add this reading to your research.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/03/really-the-claim-cycling-is-the-top-sport-for-head-injuries/?_r=0

http://www.smf.org/docs/articles/report.html

[bobfish]

Good links fdimike! Findings based on facts.

[villagefarang]

Think for themselves.... good. So I'm trying to get a handle on the risk management thought process:

Situation: Bicycle riding on paved and unpaved surfaces, Claimed speeds of [up to] 50kph and 30kph respectively. Claimed exploration of new/unknown trails.

Direct threats and mitigation:

Variable, uneven, loose trail surface - Mountain Bicycle optimised with suspension, tyres, brakes etc

Possible hiking/walking offroad. Pedal grip.Shinstrike. - Appropriate footwear and longer padded socks.

Butt/scrotal shafing/ soreness. Restricted pedalling action - Appropriate and optimised lycra cycling shorts.

Handlebar slip. Blisters/callouses. Impact protection - Appropriate and optimised cycling gloves.

Eye damage from Bug/dirt ingress - Appropriate glasses

Heat - Appropriate and lightweight breathable attire.

UV protection - Gloves, socks, long sleeved shirt, broad brimmed hat and nape protection.

Broad brimmed hat and nape protector distraction/separation/flutter above 30kph - nil.

Inadvertant fall/impact injuries- gloves, shoes. Longer sleeved shirt which may provide minimal elbow/shoulder scrape protection. Head; nil.

Summation:

Generally protected for the intended activity. The emphasis on protection against UV rather than the fall/injury threats - particularly in relation to the [most] important head protection is not easily comprehended. In light of the significant expenditure and thought given to the appropriate purchase of other cycling specific items, the exclusion of a helmet would, in this study case, be indicative of perceived, rather than actual threat.

QED

I am clearly more of a right brain sort of guy but I am impressed with your detailed analysis. Tell you what, if I do become a statistic by doing something stupid, I will come back here and report on my injuries so everyone will have a chance at a few well deserved “I told you so” comments.

[chiangmaiexpat]

I am clearly more of a right brain sort of guy but I am impressed with your detailed analysis. Tell you what, if I do become a statistic by doing something stupid, I will come back here and report on my injuries so everyone will have a chance at a few well deserved “I told you so” comments.

I don't think anyone wants to see you are any other fellow cyclist getting injured. The question of interest here is: why did you decide against wearing a helmet?

Cheers, CM-Expat

[villagefarang]

I am clearly more of a right brain sort of guy but I am impressed with your detailed analysis. Tell you what, if I do become a statistic by doing something stupid, I will come back here and report on my injuries so everyone will have a chance at a few well deserved “I told you so” comments.

I don't think anyone wants to see you are any other fellow cyclist getting injured. The question of interest here is: why did you decide against wearing a helmet?

Cheers, CM-Expat

Good question, I just wish I had an equally good answer. I just got back from a ride and wish I had glanced at my phone during a water break so I would have had more time to think about an answer.

It is not like I am being defiant or curmudgeonly about not wearing a helmet. I just like the loose fit and full cover of what I am wearing. If I come across something I like better I will get it. A motorcycle helmet was different in that it was legally required and I didn’t fancy my face being pelted with bugs at speed. Ouch.

One problem with the bike helmet is that is doesn’t address the sun problem. I don’t have hair so I would need to wear something under it as I don’t want a geometric pattern stenciled on my head and I would need something to cover my neck and face as well. The full head coverage you see on many Thai riders just looks a bit restrictive to me but if the material was really comfortable I would be tempted to do something similar.

Already had a couple basal-cell carcinomas carved off of my neck and face, probably from my surfing and sailing days, and I am vain enough that I don’t want to look any older than I do now. That is all I can think of right now, as I sit here enjoying the endorphin buzz after my ride.

[bobfish]

I am clearly more of a right brain sort of guy but I am impressed with your detailed analysis. Tell you what, if I do become a statistic by doing something stupid, I will come back here and report on my injuries so everyone will have a chance at a few well deserved “I told you so” comments.

I don't think anyone wants to see you are any other fellow cyclist getting injured. The question of interest here is: why did you decide against wearing a helmet?

Cheers, CM-Expat

Agreed. Ride safe.

[wantan]

I am doing monthly rides in a group of up to 200 mountain bike riders. There aren't many rules. But wearing a helmet is mandated. Imo this is a good thing. The group exists more than 20 years. So wearing a helmet is a decision that is based on experience made by the very experienced riders who organize the events.

I started wearing a helmet at a time most cyclists didn't wear one. I felt strange the first time. Like people looking at me thinking "he fears falling down with his toy". Peer pressure is strong. Thats why many thais dont wear helmets on scooters.

Have a safe and happy 2014. And dont miss the fun

[villagefarang]

Despite the fact that so many riders would distract from my enjoyment of riding, the requirement of a helmet would preclude my participation as well. I do understand the need in a group ride, however. I second the safe and happy 2014.

[chiangmaiexpat]

I don’t have hair so I would need to wear something under it as I don’t want a geometric pattern stenciled on my head and I would need something to cover my neck and face as well. The full head coverage you see on many Thai riders just looks a bit restrictive to me but if the material was really comfortable I would be tempted to do something similar..

The sun and heat in Thailand are indeed a bit of a problem. If it gets unbearable, I take my helmet off on slow exhausting offroad climbs, because the risk on these sections is minimal while the sweating is maximal. I have seen many Thai riders using thin head scarfs under their helmets. The best ones are made from a thin high-tech fabric with UV blocking and quick drying properties. You can buy them in outdoor supply shops.

Personally, I use SPF 50++ sun screen for every ride instead of fabric.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[fdimike]

The stretchable headscarfs described by CM Expat are also available in Tesco Lotus in their bicycle department. You can use it in all kinds of configurations. I used mine while cycling in Cambodia last month to not only control the sweat but to effectievly combat (mask over my nose) the huge dust clouds created by passing vehicles while traveling on their broken roads or roads under construction. washing/drying is a snap as well.

[bobfish]

I've a few, but the Buff brand seems to be the best. Can rig various ways and recommend for sun,sweat, dust, bandage etc...

[Maeklong]

I always wear a helmet, even in the soi where I live. I had a very light weight 8,000 baht Giro Aeon which I destroyed early last year when I crashed a couple of times going downhill. I got scraped up pretty bad, but no impact to my head. I thought "if this is what happens with an expensive helmet, what would have happened to my head with a cheap helmet?" I currently have a Kali Maraka, which is an excellent helmet, light weight and lots of ventilation. However, it costs about 6,500 baht. The outer shell is a mixture of composite plastic and carbon fibre which makes it expensive, but it is very light weight. I bought a considerably cheaper Kali Amara for my wife, and it fits almost as well, and is also cool.

For those who want a good quality helmet, but don't want to pay a lot of money, I recommend the Kali Chakra helmet. Even on their low cost helmets,they use a technology they call composite fusion, where two different types of foam are bonded to the outer shell during construction. They do not simply glue an inner liner to an outer shell, which is done for most other low cost helmets. It means that the cheaper Kali helmets offer the same level of protection as the more expensive ones. For people who don't want flash, they offer simple colors. Simple BMX-type lids are available too, and they are even cheaper. The agent in Thailand is a company called MEZIO, and the link below is the ThaiMTB page showing their Chakra helmets.

http://www.thaimtb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=736&t=855535

[pineconehead]

Last time I was hit, I was knocked out. When I woke up my helmet had a dent in it and one of the internal cross members was split. It was $150.00 and every penny probably saved my life, or at least serious injury. Helmets, tattoos, and dentistry all have one thing (predominantly) in common. Cheap isn't good, and good isn't cheap. YMMV but for my money, I'll "invest" in protective gear (helmet, eye protection, and gloves) before I worry about looking cool or being cheep.

.02

[fdimike]

I'm wearing a Specialized Prevail. It's not cheap by a long shot but is very light, and airy and offers me the protection I'm seeking on those long tours.

[GarryP]

Thailand is a killer with the heat. My helmet turns into a sweat bucket when out on the road. I am looking for a cooler option, but do not know which helmets are known to better deal with the tropics or are actually available in Thailand. The full shell helmets which are getting more popular do not on first sight appear suited to the heat of Thailand, but not having ever worn one could not swear whether that is actually the case.