Marriage Visa Extension Denied - Even Tough I Met All Requirements

[Suradit69]

I don't know how many days you have left on your current permission to stay but if you need to get extra time you can apply for a 60-day extension under clause 2.24 of Police Order 777/2551

If I were in your shoes I would get the confirmation from the trust and then apply again, hoping to get a different officer to deal with me. If refused again, I would then use the second paragraph of clause 4 of the Police Order to appeal the refusal.

Yes, it was probably not a good idea to demand to see his supervisor and then to announce you'd be back to try again. I'm not saying that in terms of what should be right or wrong, but just in the practical sense that you've probably made the situation worse by drawing a lot of attention to yourself.

I have not read through this entire multi-page thread, so this may have already been addressed, but if you're old enough and have an income of Baht 80,000 a month, why not try the retirement extension? Or temporarily take up residence with your wife's family or whoever in another Immigration office territory and apply there.

We are, of course, only hearing one side of the story. It is always possible the Immigrations office had grounds for the refusal and made a justifiable decision. It's very nice that so many people are rallying 'round a newbie poster, but let's at least allow for the possibility that the Immigrations officer did the right thing, even if it doesn't make everyone happy. An officer can ask for back-up verification to substantiate an income claim in addition to an embassy letter. These days many people bring along the extra documents to be safe and it'll probably be required more often in future due to abuses of the system ... some of which have been promoted in this forum.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Suradit69

[puipuitom]

From a French falang, who tried to live from 2007-2012 in Bangkok:

For Thailand, I am not sure that I want to live there anymore. Every year I must ask visa with a lot of difficulties and corruption. The Thais don't want foreigners to stay in their country, only their money. I'm now 59. If I stay there 20 years, every year will be same problem. Always an excuse to reject unless a hand full of money under the table. To difficult. And I cannot work with retirement visa. A police cop, who want to fine me driving a motor bike because... he could not see my eyes through the wind shield of my helmet. Always the same: extort money from farang. So... Thailand, see you popgan chat na.

[Beetlejuice]

It looks to me like your are a victim of what I call "information overload", ie you gave the immigration officer far too much information, too many documents, which at first glance made him think that you were applying on the basis of money in the bank and subsequently he refused to acknowledge his error.

For an extension of stay with income as proof of financials, nothing but the embassy letter should be proffered and only if the officer asks for supporting documents confirming this income should these documents be given.

Remittances to your Thai bank account are money coming into Thailand but they are not evidence of income. It such evidence is required it will, in your case, have to be a letter from the trust fund attesting, certifying or confirming the payments being made to you.

A bank book is not required for an extension based on income. However, sometimes an immigration officer may want to see that you are actually spending some money from your account and in such case a bank book showing some money being credited and withdrawn is one way of proving it and allay his possible suspicion that you might be working illegally in Thailand.

You are now in a difficult situation because the immigration officer coerced you to sign a statement that you would now do the extension with 400k in the bank.

Thank you for your reply. My wife thought the same thing, that he probably did notice that he made a mistake but refused to acknowledge it because he didn't want to "lose face".

I forgot to mention that he also said that letters from the Embassy confirming income did "not mean anything" and that they did not prove that I would be receiving this income next month, that they only proved that I received income in the past months and that I would need 400,000 in the bank to guarantee that I would also have money next month.

I didn't show him the bank book either until he started refusing my application. I wanted him to see that I did have money in the bank, just not the full 400,000.

So it seems to me that he's not accepting embassy letters no matter what.

I have no idea why he would do that. I've never had any problems for 4 years and always presented the exact same documents. I have no idea what to do now. He basically forced me to sign a statement and refused to return me my passport until I did so. I highly doubt that is legal but I don't think that I have any chance against Immigration since they will always be right and I will always be wrong.

I just don't know what to do now, other than 90 day in and out with an O type visa. My entire life and my family is here.

Quite correct and these are the facts that cannot be disputed.

The solution is simple. Deposit 400000 baht into a Thai bank account and leave it there, because the Immigration officer is absolutely right with his judgements in this case according to the OP`s own details, and it is now up to the OP to get his affairs in order that satisfy the Immigration procedures in order to remain in Thailand.

[fishhooks]

The typical Thai arrogance to farang, even when married to Thai woman. If western countries would deal in the same way, there would be a great outcry of Thai authorities. That's why I refuse to spend a long time in Thailand, I not like all this visa hassles. I am married to a Thai wife too, and the way how Thai authorities treat farang husbands of Thai women ist clearly discriminating and racist. In most cases the Thai women fully depend on the money of the farang husbands. So I do not apply anymore for Thai visas, stay with visa exempt entry only and I prefer to spend my money elsewhere. After 30 days I go to Laos (visa-free entry) and return to Thailand.

Congrats on a well worded and seemingly correct post.

I've been travelling to Thailand for more than thirty years, am married to a lovely Thai lady and have really come to the conclusion that we are NOT wanted here on an on-going basis.

Short term holiday fine, bring in the $'s, spend up for a few weeks, then get out, go away, go back to where you belong!

Sorry if I offend any of the long stayers here, who I suspect there may be many who are getting along fine........But I will confidentally state, you are the exception.

My dear wife is loved and respected here in Australia, where she has lived with me for around 5 years now and has had not one incident to make her feel not wanted here.

I have just let my Retirement Extension expire which has been valid for some years, as I originally intended to retire here to the warm tropical friendly country that it is in the main. (Good ol' Melbourne sometimes has four seasons of weather in one day, but I'm used to it and don't get hassled by anyone). I think the main reason I changed from wanting to be long term in Thailand was the attitude shown me by the Female Boss of KK Immigration. Is she still there? I'm speaking of at least a year back.

But, no more plans for long stays in Thailand..........Back at least one time a year to have a bit of a holiday and visit the "Rels"..............Lovely!

Edited October 31, 2013 by fishhooks

[lopburi3]

Several illegal activity posts removed.

[wileycoyote]

Very troubling posting

Hope it works out well for you

[JLCrab]

From Post #1: I tried to explain to him the entire law again.

Regardless of what had previously transpired, it may have been all downhill from that point on.

[Suradit69]

The typical Thai arrogance to farang, even when married to Thai woman. If western countries would deal in the same way, there would be a great outcry of Thai authorities. That's why I refuse to spend a long time in Thailand, I not like all this visa hassles. I am married to a Thai wife too, and the way how Thai authorities treat farang husbands of Thai women ist clearly discriminating and racist. In most cases the Thai women fully depend on the money of the farang husbands. So I do not apply anymore for Thai visas, stay with visa exempt entry only and I prefer to spend my money elsewhere. After 30 days I go to Laos (visa-free entry) and return to Thailand.

"The typical Thai arrogance to farang ..."

"...clearly discriminating and racist."

If you've been reading Thai Visa for any length of time, you ought to realize the arrogance is more often the other way around ... and may even be what provoked this particular problem, what with demands to see supervisors and threats to return to repeat the same performance.

" If western countries would deal in the same way, there would be a great outcry of Thai authorities."

You mean the way Thai applications for visas to western countries are routinely denied or involve highly personal accusations/suggestions, especially with regard to Thai women??

[hellodolly]

Thanks for this useful post.

It makes me sorry I got married as much as I lovemy wife and wish to be with her forever. The entire process is wholly out of control, and now it appears to be affecting Bangkok - that last vestige of sense and sensibility.

That is why I do not get a marriage visa. I am retired and qualify with a guarantee of income from my consulate here in Chiang Mai.

One form from them. No worry about proving I am married or as I have heard pictures of the house even one of a picture on the bed. with 80,000 baht a month you qualify for the retirement visa.

I have yet to hear of any one having a problem with the retirement visa that met the guarenteed income requirements or the money in the bank.

The one time I heard about the problems with money in the bank was when the letter from the bank did not match the bankbook from the bank. He had withdrawn 10,000 baht. He still had over 900,000 baht in the bank but they required both to match. He just went to the bank and got a letter to match his bank book and no problem.

Chances are another officer would have overlooked it.

Edited October 31, 2013 by hellodolly

[Sealbash]

I must purchase a high quality audio recording device for situations like this in future.

 

 

I am thinking audio and video, then always record your sessions with the immigration personnel. When they act up - be polite then take the video to the news media.

 

The only way to get them to follow the rules is to shame them publicly. IMHO

Book your space at the Wat before recording them

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Khun Jean]

An income statement from an embassy does not prove anything.

It only proves that you stated to the embassy personal that you have income (which you do not need to proof) and they make that statement official with some nicely designed piece of paper with a stamp on it. And then charge you money for it, of course.

The immigration officer is aware of this and sees this statement from the embassy as just a piece of paper confirming what you stated. Which could easily be a lie.

My personal strategy is to just do the 3 month visa runs until i am 50 (which is soon) and then apply for a retirement visa with 800k in the bank.

That should be the easiest as the requirements are simple.

If that fails, i am falling back to be a perpetual tourist, welcomed everywhere in the world.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Khun Jean

[Doc46]

Very sorry to hear of your problem,,,,I think you should have asked him HOW you could help him to Fix the problem,,works for me ,,same to get yellow book, a few TBAHT makes it go very smooth in Thailand no matter where you go.

[hellodolly]

An income statement from an embassy does not prove anything.

It only proves that you stated to the embassy personal that you have income (which you do not need to proof) and they make that statement official with some nicely designed piece of paper with a stamp on it. And then charge you money for it, of course.

The immigration officer is aware of this and sees this statement from the embassy as just a piece of paper confirming what you stated. Which could easily be a lie.

My personal strategy is to just do the 3 month visa runs until i am 50 (which is soon) and then apply for a retirement visa with 800k in the bank.

That should be the easiest as the requirements are simple.

If that fails, i am falling back to be a perpetual tourist, welcomed everywhere in the world.

Yes if you have the 800,000 baht that works fine. If yiou don't such as the OP has posted it won't work.

the letter guarenting income from your Embassy works fi8ne I have yet to hear of it failing. That is provided you have the proof of income. The US is the only one I know of that does not require the proof which the OP has.

I am an American citizen and use the proof of income and they do not ask me to prove it and the Immigration does not ask me to prove it. All though I am prepared at both locations with the proof. It does how ever as you stated require a payment at my councilet here in Chiang Mai of $50 American or the equivalent in Baht.

I paid in Baht and got the best rate in town. Cheaper than making 90 day runs 4 times a year.

[tonyPhuket]

The typical Thai arrogance to farang, even when married to Thai woman. If western countries would deal in the same way, there would be a great outcry of Thai authorities. That's why I refuse to spend a long time in Thailand, I not like all this visa hassles. I am married to a Thai wife too, and the way how Thai authorities treat farang husbands of Thai women ist clearly discriminating and racist. In most cases the Thai women fully depend on the money of the farang husbands. So I do not apply anymore for Thai visas, stay with visa exempt entry only and I prefer to spend my money elsewhere. After 30 days I go to Laos (visa-free entry) and return to Thailand.

Sounds good. How long must you be in Laos? Or can you immediately go back to Thailand after you made one foot step on Laos?

[JLCrab]

If you as an American Citizen are capable of looking straight into the eye of a US Federal Official who asks you before signing your document whether all the facts stated in your affidavit are 'True' and you can say 'Yes' when you know d-mn well they are not and that you (technically) have just committed a federal felony, then that is just an indication of how one has chosen to live one's life.

[sirchai]

All immigration offices in this country are different. If I were you, I'd go to Laos ( Sawannakhet) near Mukdahan ( middle northeast and apply for a Non-O multiple entry visa.

Last I've heard was no financial requirements. All you need is your original marriage certificate and your wife's ID.

Some guys in Bangkok are really bastards.-

[sirchai]

An income statement from an embassy does not prove anything.

It only proves that you stated to the embassy personal that you have income (which you do not need to proof) and they make that statement official with some nicely designed piece of paper with a stamp on it. And then charge you money for it, of course.

The immigration officer is aware of this and sees this statement from the embassy as just a piece of paper confirming what you stated. Which could easily be a lie.

My personal strategy is to just do the 3 month visa runs until i am 50 (which is soon) and then apply for a retirement visa with 800k in the bank.

That should be the easiest as the requirements are simple.

If that fails, i am falling back to be a perpetual tourist, welcomed everywhere in the world.

Yes if you have the 800,000 baht that works fine. If yiou don't such as the OP has posted it won't work.

the letter guarenting income from your Embassy works fi8ne I have yet to hear of it failing. That is provided you have the proof of income. The US is the only one I know of that does not require the proof which the OP has.

I am an American citizen and use the proof of income and they do not ask me to prove it and the Immigration does not ask me to prove it. All though I am prepared at both locations with the proof. It does how ever as you stated require a payment at my councilet here in Chiang Mai of $50 American or the equivalent in Baht.

I paid in Baht and got the best rate in town. Cheaper than making 90 day runs 4 times a year.

Your method seemed to work for a long time, but certain immigration departments do not accept that -might be true-or- not statement, anymore.

Guess Americans were (somestill are) the only people who could (can) get a visa that easy, beside of Asians like the Philips.

I know from a good friend that this doesn't work anymore just to show a letter from the embassy, Why not going to Laos/Sawannakhet?-

Edited October 31, 2013 by sirchai

[donmuang37]

I just renewed my supporting Thai wife visa in October at CW without any problems. First, you do need a letter from your bank stating your name, passport number, account number and account balance. Plus you need to bring in your bank book when you apply.

Although I have over 500K baht in SCB, I would have to go to their headquarters to get the letter. Since I was applying for a new passport anyway, I simply got the form letter from the US Embassy which confirms my income. I'm retired and my income is well over the required level.

I provided this and the other docs on their list. As someone said, don't supply more than they ask for - just exactly what is on the list. I was given a 28 day extension and told to return to pick up my visa on the given date. It was granted without any problems.

Not sure why you were denied; however, you shot yourself in the foot when you asked to see the supervisor - they will rarely, if ever, over rule one of their staff. To make matters worse, you telegraphed your intention to come back to see another officer which was akin to slapping him in the face. My suggestion would have been to simply, accept his verdict, smile depart and then come back for another try later.

Not sure what you need to do at this point, but it may be best to contact an immigration attorney or a "fixer". In either case, however, it will entail more expense. Best of luck to you.

[sirchai]

I just renewed my supporting Thai wife visa in October at CW without any problems. First, you do need a letter from your bank stating your name, passport number, account number and account balance. Plus you need to bring in your bank book when you apply.

Although I have over 500K baht in SCB, I would have to go to their headquarters to get the letter. Since I was applying for a new passport anyway, I simply got the form letter from the US Embassy which confirms my income. I'm retired and my income is well over the required level.

I provided this and the other docs on their list. As someone said, don't supply more than they ask for - just exactly what is on the list. I was given a 28 day extension and told to return to pick up my visa on the given date. It was granted without any problems.

Not sure why you were denied; however, you shot yourself in the foot when you asked to see the supervisor - they will rarely, if ever, over rule one of their staff. To make matters worse, you telegraphed your intention to come back to see another officer which was akin to slapping him in the face. My suggestion would have been to simply, accept his verdict, smile depart and then come back for another try later.

Not sure what you need to do at this point, but it may be best to contact an immigration attorney or a "fixer". In either case, however, it will entail more expense. Best of luck to you.

Guess you're damn right when the OP was asking for the "supervisor". That's like telling him that he's an incompetent m-f............! That might work in other countries, but not here.

Rule # one: Be and stay calm. never raise your voice. ( Which I'd think the OP did)

Rule # two: Don't get upset.

Rule # three: Smile,. even if you'd like to kill him.

Rule # four: They don't have to issue a visa, if they don't want to, asking for a "supervisor" is the strangest the Op could do.

Rule# five: Try to understand that and everything will be fine in the future. Some immigration guys really have to deal with spaced out foreigners.

Good luck.-

[Papadragon]

Reading from the beginning it seems to me that the OP really got up this Thai's Immigration Officer's nose - maybe his attitude was arrogant or presumtive and demanding. In any event the Immigration Officer dug his heels in and told him to "Get Lost"

Last Monday I was granted a one year extension by virtue of our 15+ year UK marriage
My Non-Immigrant O single entry 90 day visa issued in London in July expired on 3rd October.

My passport has been stamped now to 3rd October 2014. I just have to report to the police every 90 days

Together with my Thai wife I made 3 trips to the nearest Immigration office 60 miles away.
After that I left it entirely in my wife's capable hands.
She made two more trips ALONE, I wasn't required - our non family guarantor was required twice
She also went ALONE to the local Amphur twice
She also went ALONE to Bangkok to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs twice and to the British Embassy once for affirmation of our UK Marriage Certificate.
I had already applied and received the British Embassy Income letter by post.
We are a mature couple 73 and 52, we married, lived and worked in the UK for four years before returning to our home in Thailand
My Thai wife is more than capable of handling the petty officialdom in her own country, she speaks their language for starters.

Total Cost of the exercise TB18,000 (GBP360) which includes the original Non-Immigrant O broken down as follows :-

Thai Fees TB5,500, British Fees TB5,000 plus buses, taxis & hotels TB7,500

[bander]

It looks to me like your are a victim of what I call "information overload", ie you gave the immigration officer far too much information, too many documents, which at first glance made him think that you were applying on the basis of money in the bank and subsequently he refused to acknowledge his error.

For an extension of stay with income as proof of financials, nothing but the embassy letter should be proffered and only if the officer asks for supporting documents confirming this income should these documents be given.

Remittances to your Thai bank account are money coming into Thailand but they are not evidence of income. It such evidence is required it will, in your case, have to be a letter from the trust fund attesting, certifying or confirming the payments being made to you.

A bank book is not required for an extension based on income. However, sometimes an immigration officer may want to see that you are actually spending some money from your account and in such case a bank book showing some money being credited and withdrawn is one way of proving it and allay his possible suspicion that you might be working illegally in Thailand.

You are now in a difficult situation because the immigration officer coerced you to sign a statement that you would now do the extension with 400k in the bank.

Thank you for your reply. My wife thought the same thing, that he probably did notice that he made a mistake but refused to acknowledge it because he didn't want to "lose face".

I forgot to mention that he also said that letters from the Embassy confirming income did "not mean anything" and that they did not prove that I would be receiving this income next month, that they only proved that I received income in the past months and that I would need 400,000 in the bank to guarantee that I would also have money next month.

I didn't show him the bank book either until he started refusing my application. I wanted him to see that I did have money in the bank, just not the full 400,000.

So it seems to me that he's not accepting embassy letters no matter what.

I have no idea why he would do that. I've never had any problems for 4 years and always presented the exact same documents. I have no idea what to do now. He basically forced me to sign a statement and refused to return me my passport until I did so. I highly doubt that is legal but I don't think that I have any chance against Immigration since they will always be right and I will always be wrong.

I just don't know what to do now, other than 90 day in and out with an O type visa. My entire life and my family is here.

I have the same problem, less than 400K on my thai AC. Went to Thai Embassy in Savannakhet (Laos) and got 1 year multiple entry Non Im. O visa, they didn't ask for income or bankbook, only drawback, you need to make visarun every 90 days.

[lopburi3]

Off topic post and reply removed - this topic is about extensions of stay for marriage from immigration inside Thailand and has nothing to do with non immigrant O-A visas issued by MFA for retirement.

[jacko45k]

I am very sorry to read this, it is indeed shocking.

Just a thought, would not have been better to let him keep your passport and go straight to your embassy and explain everything and let them deal with it?

Best of luck to you

I was thinking go to the police and report it lost or stolen, last seen on the guy's desk.

[TechnikaIII]

Maybe u could try going to a school. They do visa for student 1 year. Just attend the class as u like. No attendance % required.

Wrong. It needs to be an approved school, and attendance must be real. You are obviously unaware of the shake up in recent years. There is plenty to read on Thaivisa about this.

[dao16]

OP is trying to obey the law, do the right thing but they keep moving the goal posts on him. They do this- well, because they can!

A buddy of mine living in Pattaya stopped applying for a extensions of stay based on marriage. Every year Immigration wanted photos of him with his family sitting on their house on their couch; in the front yard; at the front door...He would apply for his extension, then have to wait one month for a "review." Every year, more photos, same pose, thicker application file...

Finally he said screw it and lives here now on a one year multi entry o visa.

yeah, I think a lot of headaches could be solved by just doing this. The 400,000 you need in the bank will cover your three-month trips several times over, and it can be a nice little day trip--or maybe a longer trip for fun.

Sucks that it is this way, but I think I will never do one of the marriage visas based on money.

[lopburi3]

Rant post removed.

[gbswales]

Yes and transmit to Utube as it happens:)

If you want every immigration officer in Thailand against you go for it! There is no mileage ever in publicly shaming a Thai official - loss of face is a far more important principle than fairness.

I cant help wondering if the officer wasn't waiting for you to "oil the wheels" by moving a little of your income in his direction. I dont know if this goes on in immigration but since it happens in so many other areas I cant help wondering.

[dao16]

If you as an American Citizen are capable of looking straight into the eye of a US Federal Official who asks you before signing your document whether all the facts stated in your affidavit are 'True' and you can say 'Yes' when you know d-mn well they are not and that you (technically) have just committed a federal felony, then that is just an indication of how one has chosen to live one's life.

Well, yeah...that affidavit is legally binding and you will be in a world of hurt if you lie on that and get caught (which could happen for any kind of reason). Getting a visa to Thailand will be the least of your worries once you have the feds after you. It's been a while, but if I remember right, they give you a paper to read over that goes through the penalties for perjury, and it isn't pretty.

For the record...the only part of your post I would change is the "technically" bit. You have committed a federal felony by lying to a federal office while under oath....the question is how long it will take for that lie to get back to you.

Edited October 31, 2013 by dao16

[bangkokstick]

80000 per month and you cannot save 3 months to get 400000 in the bank ? your life must cost a lot !

[Hugh Jarse]

I don't know how many days you have left on your current permission to stay but if you need to get extra time you can apply for a 60-day extension under clause 2.24 of Police Order 777/2551

If I were in your shoes I would get the confirmation from the trust and then apply again, hoping to get a different officer to deal with me. If refused again, I would then use the second paragraph of clause 4 of the Police Order to appeal the refusal.

What a sorrowful state of affairs. The rules state 400000 or 40K per month. Its as though these minor officers dont fully understand the law and resent foreigners who bring in, what they consider to be, princely sums each month .

I am about to renew mine for the 5th time shortly, but at Chiang Mai , who seem to know the rules, unlike the individual you had the misfortune to deal with. Good luck anyway and hope you are able to settle matters.

By the way, anyone know who one should complain to about this as even his boss didn't know the rules . Mario , where are you?