Red shirts feel betrayed: Amnesty push turns anger against Thaksin and Pheu Thai

[jayboy]

Still a lot of brainwashed up in Issan who will support him whatever.

Mrs was visiting a friend the other day who has just got back from visiting her rellies in Issan and told of visiting two of her elderly aunts who live in a broken down old shack.

Said the two were sitting outside in the dirt telling her how sorry they felt for Thaksin for all the bad things that had been done to him.

That's right, two old dears without even a chair to sit on feeling sorry for a multi billionaire flying around the world in his private jet.

Interesting that you should patronise poor people, albeit in a proletarian form of English, as "brainwashed" but lack the compassion and emotional intelligence to comprehend why Thaksin is admired.Prior to Thaksin ordinary rural people (the majority of Thais) were simply taken for granted by politicians.Thaksin changed that and millions are grateful.Hence his power as Thailand's most popular politician.Hence his parties' continued success in elections.However he seems to have overreached himself with the revised amnesty.We await with interest to see whether his enemies can be even more stupid and unwise.

[pedro01]

Reds will do what they are told @ the end of the day.

[h90]

They won't feel betrayed for long. The next big shot who comes along and shouts, "I'll make you all rich like me!" will become their leader. And they'll be back to their familiar antics: building barricades in Bkk, burning buildings, harassing free-thinkers, demanding more taxpayer hand-outs, and such.

Yes I wonder the same...If Thaksin keeps silent for a short while and than comes with some great ideas how everyone will be rich in 6 month + hand out some money, if they will believe him again?

Most probably enough of them to win the next election.

[FarangTalk]

Amusing to see the wishful thinking of the Thaksin obsessives on the demise of the PTP and calls for Thaksin to be assassinated.

However, the reality is many of the reds were always a liability, and it is no surprise that those reds wishes are now being ignored. For Thaksin to return a deal was always going to have to be reached with those behind the 2006 coup and the military with puppet Abhisit and Suthep possibly taking the fall. They were always dispensable and always being controlled when in office.

There will be no mass protests against the TRT as before. The whole premise of protests without financial support is a non-starter. Sonthi is silenced and will be made to serve his jail sentences if he stirs up trouble.

It's in the bag boys, and you know it.

[waza]

Still a lot of brainwashed up in Issan who will support him whatever.

Mrs was visiting a friend the other day who has just got back from visiting her rellies in Issan and told of visiting two of her elderly aunts who live in a broken down old shack.

Said the two were sitting outside in the dirt telling her how sorry they felt for Thaksin for all the bad things that had been done to him.

That's right, two old dears without even a chair to sit on feeling sorry for a multi billionaire flying around the world in his private jet.

Interesting that you should patronise poor people, albeit in a proletarian form of English, as "brainwashed" but lack the compassion and emotional intelligence to comprehend why Thaksin is admired.Prior to Thaksin ordinary rural people (the majority of Thais) were simply taken for granted by politicians.Thaksin changed that and millions are grateful.Hence his power as Thailand's most popular politician.Hence his parties' continued success in elections.However he seems to have overreached himself with the revised amnesty.We await with interest to see whether his enemies can be even more stupid and unwise.

Actually we are amazed at the naivety of Thaksins supporters, despite several admissions by Thaksin that the "ordinary rural people (the majority of Thais)", the redshirts and even his own sister are expendable in his quest to fulfil his agenda, they still defend him. The redshirts were continually duped into supporting him and now are on the verge of collapse, they flounder leaderless and without funds to fractured to continue Without the motivation of a handful of baht they are apathetic to their own cause.

The PTP party, likewise are expendable and once the constitutional changes and amnesty are law they will take blame for the economy, the amnesty bill and the Preah Vihear ruling and be disbanded, to retire to their London and Dubai apartments and live of their corrupted fortunes.

Then Thaksin is free to lead a new party to elections on the slogan, year zero needs a fresh party to rule. With a 2.2 trillion baht loan to spend, a constitution with no checks and balances and the right to make deals with foreign powers independent of the government and Thai people.

Now if only he could get rid of elections then he wouldn't have to play nice with the electorate.

Edited November 2, 2013 by waza

[virtualtraveller]

we're advancing to a position where everyone is paid off. Of course, you can also pay people to be violent and have certain 'individuals' taken out.

[whybother]

Amusing to see the wishful thinking of the Thaksin obsessives on the demise of the PTP and calls for Thaksin to be assassinated.

However, the reality is many of the reds were always a liability, and it is no surprise that those reds wishes are now being ignored. For Thaksin to return a deal was always going to have to be reached with those behind the 2006 coup and the military with puppet Abhisit and Suthep possibly taking the fall. They were always dispensable and always being controlled when in office.

There will be no mass protests against the TRT as before. The whole premise of protests without financial support is a non-starter. Sonthi is silenced and will be made to serve his jail sentences if he stirs up trouble.

It's in the bag boys, and you know it.

But Abhisit and Suthep aren't taking the fall. Their charges are being whitewashed as well. Given the talk by PTP to amend section 309 of the constitution, I doubt any deal has been done either.

I don't see people calling for Thaksin to be assassinated. They are suggesting that he will be.

[Bkungbank]

The main propose as their told this amnesty bill was to get unify for the whole country but now it seems breaking down more then united.

[klauskunkel]

Red-shirt MP Korkaew Pikulthong, however, did vote in support of the bill. He later posted a message on his Facebook account saying he had voted as a Pheu Thai MP and not as a red-shirt co-leader.

So he flipped a coin to help him decide which of his personas would vote. Maybe there should a screening for multiple personality disorders as part of becoming an MP?

[otherstuff1957]

However, the reality is many of the reds were always a liability, and it is no surprise that those reds wishes are now being ignored. For Thaksin to return a deal was always going to have to be reached with those behind the 2006 coup and the military with puppet Abhisit and Suthep possibly taking the fall. They were always dispensable and always being controlled when in office.

Please excuse my editing your post, but I wanted to show which part of it I am responding to.

I agree that many of the reds are a liability, at least in the minds of Thaksin and the Redshirt leaders, but I rather suspect that we may not agree as to which group of Reds we are referring to!

The Redshirts have always been an alliance of diverse groups and the Red group that is incensed at the broad Amnesty Bill are mostly the Intellectual, Left-leaning Reds. This is the group that is against the LM law, against more censorship and would like to see a more representative government with less power given to non-elected bodies (all of which are goals that I am very sympathetic towards). This, of course, is the group that is considered to be a liability to Thaksin and the Redshirt/UDD leadership and they are the ones who will be kicked to the wayside if they protest against the Amnesty Bill.

The Redshirts who are left are the ones that I would describe as the "Thaksin Personality Cultist" and the ones who are bought and paid for, either directly, through vote buying, or indirectly, through populist policies. The "new Redshirts" will be much less interested in reforming the LM law or decreasing other forms of censorship.

[waza]

However, the reality is many of the reds were always a liability, and it is no surprise that those reds wishes are now being ignored. For Thaksin to return a deal was always going to have to be reached with those behind the 2006 coup and the military with puppet Abhisit and Suthep possibly taking the fall. They were always dispensable and always being controlled when in office.

Please excuse my editing your post, but I wanted to show which part of it I am responding to.

I agree that many of the reds are a liability, at least in the minds of Thaksin and the Redshirt leaders, but I rather suspect that we may not agree as to which group of Reds we are referring to!

The Redshirts have always been an alliance of diverse groups and the Red group that is incensed at the broad Amnesty Bill are mostly the Intellectual, Left-leaning Reds. This is the group that is against the LM law, against more censorship and would like to see a more representative government with less power given to non-elected bodies (all of which are goals that I am very sympathetic towards). This, of course, is the group that is considered to be a liability to Thaksin and the Redshirt/UDD leadership and they are the ones who will be kicked to the wayside if they protest against the Amnesty Bill.

The Redshirts who are left are the ones that I would describe as the "Thaksin Personality Cultist" and the ones who are bought and paid for, either directly, through vote buying, or indirectly, through populist policies. The "new Redshirts" will be much less interested in reforming the LM law or decreasing other forms of censorship.

Yes but the would have to change their name because redshirts are so 2010, not "year zero".

[Emptyset]

"Sombat Boonngam-anong, Red Sunday group leader, said he would try to muster 10,000 red shirts on November 10 to demonstrate against the bill. Sombat acknowledged that there was nothing opponents of the bill could do to stop the parliamentary process but added that the red-shirt movement must reform itself."

Getting 20,000 stormtroopers to rally against something you can't changes? Doing the same old thing while stating you need to reform? Now, that is red shirt philosophy 101. Stupid, reactionary, potentially violent, and contradictory. At least some things never change.

You obviously know little about Sombat if you're describing him as 'stupid, reactionary...' etc, the antonyms of the adjectives you used would more properly describe him. And if you profess to care about the state of Thai democracy whilst praising the likes of Abhisit and Suthep and criticizing Sombat, especially now, then that's just ridiculous.

[jayboy]

Still a lot of brainwashed up in Issan who will support him whatever.

Mrs was visiting a friend the other day who has just got back from visiting her rellies in Issan and told of visiting two of her elderly aunts who live in a broken down old shack.

Said the two were sitting outside in the dirt telling her how sorry they felt for Thaksin for all the bad things that had been done to him.

That's right, two old dears without even a chair to sit on feeling sorry for a multi billionaire flying around the world in his private jet.

Interesting that you should patronise poor people, albeit in a proletarian form of English, as "brainwashed" but lack the compassion and emotional intelligence to comprehend why Thaksin is admired.Prior to Thaksin ordinary rural people (the majority of Thais) were simply taken for granted by politicians.Thaksin changed that and millions are grateful.Hence his power as Thailand's most popular politician.Hence his parties' continued success in elections.However he seems to have overreached himself with the revised amnesty.We await with interest to see whether his enemies can be even more stupid and unwise.

Actually we are amazed at the naivety of Thaksins supporters, despite several admissions by Thaksin that the "ordinary rural people (the majority of Thais)", the redshirts and even his own sister are expendable in his quest to fulfil his agenda, they still defend him. The redshirts were continually duped into supporting him and now are on the verge of collapse, they flounder leaderless and without funds to fractured to continue Without the motivation of a handful of baht they are apathetic to their own cause.

The PTP party, likewise are expendable and once the constitutional changes and amnesty are law they will take blame for the economy, the amnesty bill and the Preah Vihear ruling and be disbanded, to retire to their London and Dubai apartments and live of their corrupted fortunes.

Then Thaksin is free to lead a new party to elections on the slogan, year zero needs a fresh party to rule. With a 2.2 trillion baht loan to spend, a constitution with no checks and balances and the right to make deals with foreign powers independent of the government and Thai people.

Now if only he could get rid of elections then he wouldn't have to play nice with the electorate.

Not quite sure why he should want to dispense with elections when the Thai people keep on supporting his parties whenever they are held.

I think that those with problems over democracy and elections are the same people who opt for grimy back door deals, military coups and rigged constitutions.

In your post, leaving aside the usual ranting nonsense, you make one fair comment that Thaksin is an opportunist.I agree.

Your problem is that, like so many of the usual suspects, that is all you seem to understand.And that is why your observations (lacking any political, social or economic context) are of not much value other than preaching to the converted.

[Emptyset]

Amusing to see the wishful thinking of the Thaksin obsessives on the demise of the PTP and calls for Thaksin to be assassinated.

However, the reality is many of the reds were always a liability, and it is no surprise that those reds wishes are now being ignored. For Thaksin to return a deal was always going to have to be reached with those behind the 2006 coup and the military with puppet Abhisit and Suthep possibly taking the fall. They were always dispensable and always being controlled when in office.

There will be no mass protests against the TRT as before. The whole premise of protests without financial support is a non-starter. Sonthi is silenced and will be made to serve his jail sentences if he stirs up trouble.

It's in the bag boys, and you know it.

True that this was always going to be the end game and we shouldn't be surprised. But that doesn't mean Thaksin coming back and regaining his stolen loot, betraying many of his supporters in the process, is anything to celebrate...

[h90]

Still a lot of brainwashed up in Issan who will support him whatever.

Mrs was visiting a friend the other day who has just got back from visiting her rellies in Issan and told of visiting two of her elderly aunts who live in a broken down old shack.

Said the two were sitting outside in the dirt telling her how sorry they felt for Thaksin for all the bad things that had been done to him.

That's right, two old dears without even a chair to sit on feeling sorry for a multi billionaire flying around the world in his private jet.

I never thought that it is that bad.....

[FarangTalk]

I don't see people calling for Thaksin to be assassinated. They are suggesting that he will be.

The post hoping for his assassination by sniper has now been removed as well as my previous reply.

[Stradavarius37]

When I said all this was happening in a different thread, I was told not to believe it.

 

But what I find truly appalling id this....

 

A highly placed source said former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra might decide it is time to break with the so-called progressive red shirts who oppose the lese majeste law as they have become a liability in the reconciliation process with the traditional elite.

The source also said Thaksin felt the relatives of those killed in 2010 had already received Bt7.5 million each and some red-shirt co-leaders had become MPs or been appointed to other government positions.

 

After all the support they had for him, now he thinks it maybe time to turn his back on them. Now their eyes have been well and truly opened to this monster. But the second paragraph beggars belief. Basically you been paid, and parachuted into cushy positions.... you been paid... we're even.

 

I don't know how many times one person can shoot themselves in the foot. Does he actually have any feet left?

 

This weasel seems to be making all the wrong moves... who the hell is advising him? Is he going senile or something?

He's winning, in case you hadn't notice. Wake up

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[siampolee]

He's winning, in case you hadn't notice. Wake up

A game is never won until it's lost, we've some time to go yet.

Tactics change as do substitutes that changes both the makeup of a team and its campaign stratigies.

Edited November 2, 2013 by siampolee

[fab4]

When I said all this was happening in a different thread, I was told not to believe it.

But what I find truly appalling id this....

A highly placed source said former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra might decide it is time to break with the so-called progressive red shirts who oppose the lese majeste law as they have become a liability in the reconciliation process with the traditional elite.

The source also said Thaksin felt the relatives of those killed in 2010 had already received Bt7.5 million each and some red-shirt co-leaders had become MPs or been appointed to other government positions.

After all the support they had for him, now he thinks it maybe time to turn his back on them. Now their eyes have been well and truly opened to this monster. But the second paragraph beggars belief. Basically you been paid, and parachuted into cushy positions.... you been paid... we're even.

I don't know how many times one person can shoot themselves in the foot. Does he actually have any feet left?

This weasel seems to be making all the wrong moves... who the hell is advising him? Is he going senile or something?

What you find truly appalling is......................................

according to a "highly placed source" who provided this information to The Nation, a paper known for it's never ending love of the Shinawatra Clan and its associated political parties / ground roots support and is responsible for seemingly endless articles in support of the said people.

[fab4]

If everyone votes out of respect for the majority, it means the first person decides how everyone votes.

Maybe if everyone voted how they wanted, or particularly for an MP, how the people who voted for them wanted, then maybe the majority would actually vote differently.

Which is exactly what I was saying vis a vis the Friends of Newin and the abhisit coalition MP vote but you seem to think its different. I've got news for you there's a common demoninator - a reward of some sorts, usually money.

[whybother]

If everyone votes out of respect for the majority, it means the first person decides how everyone votes.

Maybe if everyone voted how they wanted, or particularly for an MP, how the people who voted for them wanted, then maybe the majority would actually vote differently.

Which is exactly what I was saying vis a vis the Friends of Newin and the abhisit coalition MP vote but you seem to think its different. I've got news for you there's a common demoninator - a reward of some sorts, usually money.

Did the Friends of Newin go against their constituents wishes? Were their constituents out protesting against them joining the Democrats in government?

[fab4]

Still a lot of brainwashed up in Issan who will support him whatever.

Mrs was visiting a friend the other day who has just got back from visiting her rellies in Issan and told of visiting two of her elderly aunts who live in a broken down old shack.

Said the two were sitting outside in the dirt telling her how sorry they felt for Thaksin for all the bad things that had been done to him.

That's right, two old dears without even a chair to sit on feeling sorry for a multi billionaire flying around the world in his private jet.

I never thought that it is that bad.....

Well, first you have to believe that Robby nz's missuses' friend is a reliable source for all things Issan.

Not much family love shown there if I may say so. You'd at least think she'd buy a couple of chairs to save the "old dears sitting in the dirt".Perhaps she can't afford it, perhaps Robby nz can help them out?

Mind you, people believe in a "highly placed source close to Thaksin", so why not?

[gerry1011]

I love this "excitement" shown by the Thaksin haters about reds shirts being betrayed.

It makes several people feel energised and quickly jump to conclusions.

Don't worry, nothing will happen.

The reds are not turning yellows.

They will not turn against their elected leaders.

Everything is ok, no worries.

However, I do sympathize with the reds who have had loved ones shot during the 2010 crackdown. I fully understand their disappointment. Its must be hard to accept that Abhisit and Suthep will walk free, instead of rotting in prison.

But reconciliation is the best that can happen to the country. So is the amnesty. Most realise that.

An alternative would be to quickly judge and condemn all the trouble makers, including all the yellows who took the country hostage, the ones who seized airports, the responsible of the 90 deaths of 2010, etc..., and throw them in prison. But it would drag for years and years with very little results.

So, lets be realistic. The wise thing to do is to reset everything.

Most are ready for it. Ready for reconciliation.

A minority prefers to keep going on with the ongoing destructive situation and refuse to put the country back on track.

Many here love to read about "anger" and feel good when reading the article of a biased newspaper.

But anger does not lead anywhere.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited November 2, 2013 by gerry1011

[bigbamboo]

The best way to sort out this mess is for PT to do what the Democrat's did when they were in power and put their constitution to a referendum.

Let the people decide not the politicians.

[gerry1011]

.

Edited November 2, 2013 by gerry1011

[fab4]

Amusing to see the wishful thinking of the Thaksin obsessives on the demise of the PTP and calls for Thaksin to be assassinated.

However, the reality is many of the reds were always a liability, and it is no surprise that those reds wishes are now being ignored. For Thaksin to return a deal was always going to have to be reached with those behind the 2006 coup and the military with puppet Abhisit and Suthep possibly taking the fall. They were always dispensable and always being controlled when in office.

There will be no mass protests against the TRT as before. The whole premise of protests without financial support is a non-starter. Sonthi is silenced and will be made to serve his jail sentences if he stirs up trouble.

It's in the bag boys, and you know it.

But Abhisit and Suthep aren't taking the fall. Their charges are being whitewashed as well. Given the talk by PTP to amend section 309 of the constitution, I doubt any deal has been done either.

I don't see people calling for Thaksin to be assassinated. They are suggesting that he will be.

What's this post then, more of your semantics?

"we're advancing to a position where everyone is paid off. Of course, you can also pay people to be violent and have certain 'individuals' taken out."

Edited November 2, 2013 by fab4

[whybother]

I love this "excitement" shown by the Thaksin haters about reds shirts being betrayed. It makes several people feel energised and quickly jump to conclusions. Don't worry, nothing will happen. The reds are not turning yellows. They will not turn against their elected leaders. Everything is ok, no worries. However, I do sympathize with the reds who have had loved ones shot during the 2010 crackdown. I fully understand their disappointment. Its must be hard to accept that Abhisit and Suthep will walk free, instead of rotting in prison. But reconciliation is the best that can happen to the country. So is the amnesty. Most realise that. An alternative would be to quickly judge and condemn all the trouble makers, including all the yellows who took the country hostage, the ones who seized airports, the responsible of the 90 deaths of 2010, etc..., and throw them in prison. But it would drag for years and years with very little results. So, lets be realistic. The wise thing to do is to reset everything. Most are ready for it. Ready for reconciliation. A minority prefers to keep going on with the ongoing destructive situation and refuse to put the country back on track. Many here love to read about "anger" and feel good when reading the article of a biased newspaper. But anger does not lead anywhere. Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

People may be ready for reconciliation. It's seems they'll be waiting awhile though, because this isn't it.

[whybother]

What's this post then?

"we're advancing to a position where everyone is paid off. Of course, you can also pay people to be violent and have certain 'individuals' taken out."

I don't know. What is that post?

[fab4]

The best way to sort out this mess is for PT to do what the Democrat's did when they were in power and put their constitution to a referendum.

Let the people decide not the politicians.

OK, What constitution was this that the democrat party put to a referendum?

[IMA_FARANG]

All politicians in Thailand are from a "privileged class" .... people that steal from voters.

Thaksin is no different .... and anyone who doesn't understand that is a fool.

As someone else said he is only concerned with his own self interest first and foremost.