Protesters in Bangkok rise to Suthep's call

[webfact]

Protesters rise to Suthep's call
The Nation



video clip seen at odds with govt promise not to push bill if Senate rejects it

BANGKOK: -- Protesters at Democracy Monument last night agreed with Democrat MP Suthep Thaugsuban when he said the fight against amnesty bill should continue after he produced a video clip of a Pheu Thai MP telly party supporters that the government’s promise to retreat was merely a ploy to buy time.

In the clip from Tuesday night, MP Prasit Chaisrisa was seen telling a pro-Pheu Thai audience that the government's decision to back down was meant to convince the anti-amnesty demonstrators to go home, before the efforts to push the bill through are renewed.

This came after the government vowed publicly yesterday saying it would not pursue the amnesty bill during the remainder of its term should the Senate veto it.

Phumtham Wechayachai, secretary-general of the ruling Pheu Thai Party, announced yesterday that if the Senate, which convenes on Monday, decides to kill the bill, then the other five draft laws related to amnesty would also be withdrawn. He added that the government would not submit any more rift-provoking bills.



Later, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, who was in Chantaburi at the time, said the government would act according to the Senate's decision. "Pheu Thai has clearly stated that it won't resubmit the bill after the 180-day 'silence' period ends. The government affirms that it will not act against public opinion, will honour the majority and listen to public opinion. This statement follows rumours that the government is planning to take violent action. I assure you, this government will never use force against the public, as we are a people's government, elected under the democratic system. We honour the laws, the Constitution and public freedom," the premier said.

Technically, the government can resubmit the bill 180 days later if the Senate rejects it.

In response to the Democrat Party's concern that the government might use executive decrees to fulfil its amnesty attempt, Yingluck said there were no plans to do such a thing. She also urged people to calm down, and called on the opposition - which is leading a rally on Rajdamneon Avenue - to fight in Parliament.

As of press time, the rallies at Rajdamneon Avenue and at Urupong intersection were continuing. Students from several universities plan to hold a massive rally today, which will be intensified with protests from some business organisations.

Meanwhile, chief opposition whip Jurin Laksanawisit said the Pheu Thai-led administration had merely made this move to ease pressure from the public, adding that a promise has to be kept for the public to believe it.

"Don't be fooled by mere statements about the bill's withdrawal without evidence. It is just meant to decrease the growing opposition to the amnesty bill for [the government's own] political gains. The government's credibility is declining and there is no guarantee that it will not break its promises," he added.

Democrat MP Rachada Dhnadirek said the government first needs to prove that Yingluck will keep her word. "Unless the blanket amnesty bill is dropped from Parliament, Democrat-led protests will continue," she added.

Yesterday, former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra issued a statement, saying that he respected different opinions of Thais "but I cannot accept the use of false information to distort the issue and frame me and my family". His son, Panthongtae, wrote on his Facebook page that his father, longing to come home, supported the bill on poor advice from some close aides.

Earlier in the day, Jurin said the government should make it clear that it would not revive the amnesty debate. He urged Yingluck to reaffirm that the government would not introduce any draft on amnesty and that it would not grant political clemency by issuing an executive decree.

A source from the Democrat Party, who asked not to be named, said he believed the ruling Pheu Thai Party had a strategy. They want to convey to intellectuals and businessmen who are also protesting against the bill that the Democrats had an agenda to overthrow the government, the source said. He said the government estimated that many of the anti-bill protesters would stop rallying after Yingluck signalled to the Senate to reject the bill. However, the strategy failed because the PM's retreat seemed to be too late. He said the key issue, which the Democrats would communicate to demonstrators, is that the people could not trust the Senate and the government, until the six amnesty drafts in the House are out of Parliament.

Before the Pheu Thai announcement, a number of coalition and opposition MPs made a bipartisan stand, urging the Senate to revise the amnesty bill instead of killing it. The senators should vote to pass the first reading of the bill so that they could vet and remove contentious amnesty provisions, Democrat MP Alongkorn Ponlaboot said.

Pheu Thai MP Chavalit Wichayasuthi said he agreed with Alongkorn's proposal. Revising the bill instead of discarding it would mean the legislative procedures for amnesty would not be in vain, he said.

Pheu Thai MP Samart Kaewmechai said the bill should be salvaged by allowing the upper chamber to revise controversial provisions as deemed necessary.

"Defeating the bill would not end the differences over amnesty, hence revising the bill to suit society is a better option," he said.

He reminded the senators that should they defeat the bill, the House would still be obliged to reactivate the amnesty debate in six months as per the Constitution.


-- The Nation 2013-11-07

[webfact]

Protesters refuse to back down until bill dropped
BUDSARAKHAM SINLAPALAVAN
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- SEVERAL GROUPS of protesters said they would not stop rallying against the government's blanket amnesty bill even if the Senate rejects the draft.

This declaration came despite the fact that Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said on Tuesday that her government would accept the Senate's decision, provided the bill is thoroughly deliberated on.

Phakin Issayaworachot, a protester from the Student and People Network for Thailand's Reform, however, said his group will continue protesting even if the bill is rejected by the Senate because the House of Representatives can still pass it 180 days later. He also said he had no faith in Yingluck.

"I will only stop protesting when it is actually rejected in the House," Phakin said.

Another man at the rally said he would continue protesting because this government was corrupt and he believed it would push the bill through.

Somkiat Homlaor, leader of the Business Club for Democracy (BCD), added that Yingluck was just avoiding her responsibility and passing the buck on to the Senate. However, he said, the very fact that the bill was rushed through at 4am last week was enough reason not to trust her.

Meanwhile Chalisa Thammawong, president of Thammasat University's student organisation, said she would wait for the Senate's decision on Monday and might stop protesting unless the draft returns to the House.

Separately, in a move to check the sentiment on social media, Jin Somroutai posted this question on her Facebook timeline: "If the Senate rejects the amnesty bill, will you stop your protest?"

Here are some of the responses:

Angie-ja Pongvutitham said: "I will keep protesting because my goal is for this House to be dissolved."

Wara Laksana said: "Even if the Senate rejects the bill, the House can still decide to push it through. The Senate is only a rubber stamp, but the people can be the political machinery to stop it."

Panachit Kittipanya-ngam said: "I will continue rallying."

Picha Rattanadilok, a member of the National Institute of Development Administration, called on the 310 MPs who voted for the bill to take responsibility and step down. He was speaking on behalf of the People's Assembly Reforming Thailand group.

The Business Club for Democracy also called on the MPs to apologise to the public.


-- The Nation 2013-11-07

[klubex99]

This just gets better and better.

So the common consensus is that a lot of the protesters will continue their protest even if the bill is rejected.

So what they are saying is that once the bill is kicked out, they are switching their protest efforts to ousting this tin pot, corrupt government.

I smell a coup around the corner.

Edited November 6, 2013 by klubex99

[MaiChai]

What a stupid statement by Yingluck: how can the Democrats fight this in Parliament with a PT majority and a biased chief whip?

[klubex99]

What a stupid statement by Yingluck: how can the Democrats fight this in Parliament with a PT majority and a biased chief whip?

Don't forget the 'gagging' of the Dems in the house whenever they rock the boat.

We all know the speakers are firmly in the pocket.

Edited November 6, 2013 by klubex99

[Thai at Heart]

This just gets better and better.

So the common consensus is that a lot of the protesters will continue their protest even if the bill is rejected.

So what they are saying is that once the bill is kicked out, they are switching their protest efforts to ousting this tin pot, corrupt government.

I smell a coup around the corner.

Starting to pong a bit isn't it.

It's winner take all, and they aren't going to let Thaksin take it all.

[Somtamnication]

The money involved in this is astounding.

Two of my neighbours are paid 2000THB per day to attend this fiasco in BKK. 2000thb!!!!!!!

Wonder how many would show up if no money was paid and they went because they BELIEVED in this cause?

[jdinasia]

Somtam ... I sincerely doubt that your claims of 2k THB are true/accurate.

[chainarong]

The worm is slowly turning or so it may seem, the old saying what comes around go's around might become a possibility , though I wouldn't hold my breath, it would seem some PTP supporters are jumping ship , these type of people I wouldn't like around me, more of the good people of Thailand need to see the light ,and realize just what the PTP (People Talk Party) stands for , Thaskin's call that he always wanted the good for Thailand's people, has a hollow ring to it ,as he had the chance, Greed / ideology ruled the day and he blew the whole shebang.

[ramrod711]

His son, Panthongtae, wrote on his Facebook page that his father, longing to come home, supported the bill on poor advice from some close aides.

Thaksin took someones advice?????

[whybother]

His son, Panthongtae, wrote on his Facebook page that his father, longing to come home, supported the bill on poor advice from some close aides.

Thaksin took someones advice?????

He only takes advice when it's bad. All the good decisions are his alone.

[thaicbr]

The money involved in this is astounding.

 

Two of my neighbours are paid 2000THB per day to attend this fiasco in BKK.  2000thb!!!!!!!

 

Wonder how many would show up if no money was paid and they went because they BELIEVED in this cause? 

WHO is paying them 2,000baht a day?

Were can I sign up?

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

[Emptyset]

Have to agree with Alongkorn's proposal here - is there finally a prominent Democrat with some sense? Let the senate revise the bill so that it reverts to its original provision of amnesty for ordinary protesters only, excluding leaders and Thaksin. There's cross-party support for this and it'll also mean that the government can't resubmit it after 180 days so it won't matter if Yingluck is insincere about PT's intentions. If he manages to pull it off, he'll surely win support from people who're willing to compromise and listen to reason. A victory for society as a whole.

Of course, even if that were to happen, it'd only result in a postponement of the govt's efforts to bring back Thaksin. But they'll do it as they should have done originally (from a politically effective POV, rather than my own), by amending the constitution. Thaksin's return is always the endgame here, but I still think if he were to stay quiet for a few years and do his best behind the scenes to capacitate a competent government, he could probably come back with a minimum of fuss, in say, 2017. In general, the Thai tradition is to forgive and forget - arguably part of the problem, of course - but Thaksin won't allow that process to happen by continually trying to ensure he remains in the public eye. I guess from his perspective, he thinks that's necessary because if people forget about him, PT won't get elected, and he'd have no chance of any sort of amnesty in the near future. But polls a year ago were showing Yingluck was more popular than he was, so PT could probably have two terms at least without his prescence being necessary, esp. given the perennial unpopularity & ineptitude of the Democrats. Jury's out on whether Thaksin coming back would result in a more competent, less corrupt, government. Some say that he's responsible for the few competent ministers: Chaturon, Pongthep, Chatchart etc, and that it's Yingluck and party advisors who've been responsible for a succession of imbeciles and incompetents in key posts. Others say that Thaksin shot himself in the foot, there were plenty of smart people ready to join the government, but Thaksin turned them away in order to reward old favourites and party stalwarts.

In any case, still think he'll be destroyed by his own hubris in the end...

[bangkokheat]

so the plot thickens as governments of at least 8 countries put out travel warnings for thailand, if thailand was a badly injured animal, it would have been put down, hoorah to all the greedy little mofos for running over their own country, the stench of sickness looms like a thick fog

[scorecard]

His son, Panthongtae, wrote on his Facebook page that his father, longing to come home, supported the bill on poor advice from some close aides.

Thaksin took someones advice?????

Typical, blame someone else. I just made an honest mistake.

[scorecard]

Somtam ... I sincerely doubt that your claims of 2k THB are true/accurate.

Seeing this, my adult Thai son just called 3 close friends in Bangkok who are all very opposed to this regime and all have attended the current rallies, they all said they have been paid nothing to attend and they are unaware of any discussion at all about payment to attend, and more to the point they have all attended because of their beliefs not because of some possibility of payment to attend.

Somtam, share some credible details of your claim of 2,000Baht payments.

[soi41]

Somtam ... I sincerely doubt that your claims of 2k THB are true/accurate.

Because "the other side" is so squirky clean???

[Bagwan]

His son, Panthongtae, wrote on his Facebook page that his father, longing to come home, supported the bill on poor advice from some close aides.

Thaksin took someones advice?????

Who would believe the little squirt. a confirmed liar and cheat, anyway?

Edited November 7, 2013 by Bagwan

[Thait Spot]

Emptyset's post above makes a lot of sense and would also be a a great move in this game of chess

It could well be that the PTP hope that the bill is rejected rather than amended - in fact the way the PTP party is now acting seals it for me

[winstonc]

Somtam ... I sincerely doubt that your claims of 2k THB are true/accurate.

Seeing this, my adult Thai son just called 3 close friends in Bangkok who are all very opposed to this regime and all have attended the current rallies, they all said they have been paid nothing to attend and they are unaware of any discussion at all about payment to attend, and more to the point they have all attended because of their beliefs not because of some possibility of payment to attend.

Somtam, share some credible details of your claim of 2,000Baht payments.

2.000baht a day utter bollo-x if it were true they would be eating at some very nice restaurants in bkk.my wife is spending money too be there...a troll post i fear.for which i have bit..the fool that i am...

[klauskunkel]

if the Senate, which convenes on Monday, decides to kill the bill, then the other five draft laws related to amnesty would also be withdrawn. He added that the government would not submit any more rift-provoking bills.

Hah, just wait for Chalerm...

He'll comes around your blind corner when you least expect it... he goes for the goal... and then he shoots his mouth off

[robblok]

 

Somtam ... I sincerely doubt that your claims of 2k THB are true/accurate.

 

Seeing this, my adult Thai son just called 3 close friends in Bangkok who are all very opposed to this regime and all have attended the current rallies, they all said they have been paid nothing to attend and they are unaware of any discussion at all about payment to attend, and more to the point they have all attended because of their beliefs not because of some possibility of payment to attend.

 

Somtam,   share some credible details of your claim of 2,000Baht payments.

 

2.000baht a day utter bollo-x if it were true they would be eating at some very nice restaurants in bkk.my wife is spending money too be there...a troll post i fear.for which i have bit..the fool that i am...

People i know that are going don't get paid unlike the red rent a mob who are always supplied with money and busses. This is truly a peoples protest not a bought mob like before.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[rametindallas]

'Picha Rattanadilok, a member of the National Institute of Development Administration, called on the 310 MPs who voted for the bill to take responsibility and step down'

I hope they protest until THIS happens

empyset in post #13 had the best idea for a resolution to this situation.

[webfact]

Govt told to withdraw amnesty bill by 6pm Monday
By English News



BANGKOK, Nov 7 – Democrat MP and anti-Amnesty Bill rally leader Suthep Thaugsuban said last night that the government must do whatever way it will to shoot down the amnesty bill once and for all by 6pm Monday.

In a speech to the Democracy Monument rally, the former deputy prime minister urged Thai people to be on full alert for the opponents’ next move, and said protesters demanded immediate withdrawal of the amnesty bill and six other pieces of legislation related to the amnesty issue.

There is more than one alternative for “killing” the controversial bill, Mr Suthep said, advising the Senate vote to redefine the amnesty bill as a piece of financial legislation before returning it to the House of Representatives.

It is compulsory that a financial bill be endorsed by the prime minister, as stipulated by law, before it is given to the House of Representatives for deliberation.

The financial bill will be automatically dropped if Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra does not endorse it, said Mr Suthep.

Another alternative is the Senate passing the bill in three readings in a revised version not to grant amnesty to offenders in corruption and criminal cases, he said.

He said the government and the Senate have collaborated in misleading the Thai people to believe that they won in their fight (against the amnesty bill) and should stop their demonstrations.

Though the Upper House rejects the bill, it could be approved by the Lower House after 180 days, said the Democrat MP.

There is evidence that the government will reintroduce the amnesty bill in the future, he claimed.

“From tonight onward, let us protest against the amnesty bill in every forum. Be fully prepared for an announcement from the Democracy Monument at 6pm on November 11,” he declared.

The Democrat-led rally was kicked off at Samsen railway station on October 31 and relocated to the Democracy Monument on Ratchdamnoen Avenue on Monday. / (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-11-07

[MK1]

Interesting assessment of the whole fiasco, as reported in The Nation ( 2013-11-07 );

Somkiat Homlaor, leader of the Business Club for Democracy (BCD), added that Yingluck was just avoiding her responsibility and passing the buck on to the Senate. However, he said, the very fact that the bill was rushed through at 4am last week was enough reason not to trust.

This perception clearly indicates that that everyone knows there is still a hidden agenda and objective to deliver the ‘Amnesty Bill’ in the end irrespective of what the public or the Senate may think of it.

This obviously means the Yingluck Government is trending on icy ground, while still seen to be holding the hidden trump card, and while having an election year looming around the corner. Therefore, the longer this problem festers, the prospect of another coup d'état, in the short to medium term, looks potentially a distinct possibility.

[Emptyset]

Somtam ... I sincerely doubt that your claims of 2k THB are true/accurate.

Seeing this, my adult Thai son just called 3 close friends in Bangkok who are all very opposed to this regime and all have attended the current rallies, they all said they have been paid nothing to attend and they are unaware of any discussion at all about payment to attend, and more to the point they have all attended because of their beliefs not because of some possibility of payment to attend.

Somtam, share some credible details of your claim of 2,000Baht payments.

2.000baht a day utter bollo-x if it were true they would be eating at some very nice restaurants in bkk.my wife is spending money too be there...a troll post i fear.for which i have bit..the fool that i am...

People i know that are going don't get paid unlike the red rent a mob who are always supplied with money and busses. This is truly a peoples protest not a bought mob like before.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I don't know if these particular demonstrators are being paid or not, but recall there are also many urban red shirts that joined the 2010 protests (& subsequent protests) who wouldn't think of receiving money for it and didn't see others receiving payment either. Many on here would probably discount their testimony on the basis that, even if that were true, the people that came in from rural areas were nevertheless paid. So why should we take the people that Robblok etc know* who aren't being paid as evidence that people brought in by the Democrats from the south aren't receiving anything? As I say, I don't know if they are or not, but it's common for people brought in from rural areas to receive at least some sort of stipend, but of course that doesn't necessarily mean they don't also believe in what they're protesting for.

*Presumptive here, but I'm guessing they're from an urban area?

Edited November 7, 2013 by Emptyset

[h90]

Somtam ... I sincerely doubt that your claims of 2k THB are true/accurate.

Seeing this, my adult Thai son just called 3 close friends in Bangkok who are all very opposed to this regime and all have attended the current rallies, they all said they have been paid nothing to attend and they are unaware of any discussion at all about payment to attend, and more to the point they have all attended because of their beliefs not because of some possibility of payment to attend.

Somtam, share some credible details of your claim of 2,000Baht payments.

2.000baht a day utter bollo-x if it were true they would be eating at some very nice restaurants in bkk.my wife is spending money too be there...a troll post i fear.for which i have bit..the fool that i am...

My wife goes there and a couple of my staff.

no one get any money. For 2000 Baht per day I would have to close the company, because all would be there at the demonstrations for a 60K per month.

And say they have 20.000 people (very low estimation) x 2000=40 Million per day without food.

[Somtamnication]

Somtam ... I sincerely doubt that your claims of 2k THB are true/accurate.

Wish I can prove it. I appreciate you calling me a liar, but I stand by what the neighbour said, what my wife said and what the villagers are gossiping about.

This "liar" will insist that most of that crowd is bought and paid for. The reds did it and there are articles on it.

[robblok]

Seeing this, my adult Thai son just called 3 close friends in Bangkok who are all very opposed to this regime and all have attended the current rallies, they all said they have been paid nothing to attend and they are unaware of any discussion at all about payment to attend, and more to the point they have all attended because of their beliefs not because of some possibility of payment to attend.

Somtam, share some credible details of your claim of 2,000Baht payments.

2.000baht a day utter bollo-x if it were true they would be eating at some very nice restaurants in bkk.my wife is spending money too be there...a troll post i fear.for which i have bit..the fool that i am...

People i know that are going don't get paid unlike the red rent a mob who are always supplied with money and busses. This is truly a peoples protest not a bought mob like before.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I don't know if these particular demonstrators are being paid or not, but recall there are also many urban red shirts that joined the 2010 protests (& subsequent protests) who wouldn't think of receiving money for it and didn't see others receiving payment either. Many on here would probably discount their testimony on the basis that, even if that were true, the people that came in from rural areas were nevertheless paid. So why should we take the people that Robblok etc know* who aren't being paid as evidence that people brought in by the Democrats from the south aren't receiving anything? As I say, I don't know if they are or not, but it's common for people brought in from rural areas to receive at least some sort of stipend, but of course that doesn't necessarily mean they don't also believe in what they're protesting for.

*Presumptive here, but I'm guessing they're from an urban area?

First of its proven the reds were paid.

No proof any of these guys who are hard working people and students not rice farmers intent on burning the city.

Also you have to look at how the protest were organised, the reds were centrally organised. This time there is not really a central organisation its many groups coming together to protest against the breakdown of law. There is no central paymaster urging them on and probably after this bill is gone they will stop and not try to bring down the government. Because they are not all democrat supporters, they just want justice and no central paymaster is paying them to do so. If there was a central paymaster he would want a lot more for his money then just destroying this bill.

[robblok]

Somtam ... I sincerely doubt that your claims of 2k THB are true/accurate.

Wish I can prove it. I appreciate you calling me a liar, but I stand by what the neighbour said, what my wife said and what the villagers are gossiping about.

This "liar" will insist that most of that crowd is bought and paid for. The reds did it and there are articles on it.

Laughable red propaganda, the reds did it so others have to do it too