Thailand will not withdraw its troops from Preah Vihear temple just yet

[Bluespunk]

"The spokesman said that any withdrawal of troops would depend on a discussion at the meeting of the joint cooperation committee of both countries."

No it won't. You've been told to leave so you will. Deal with it.

[simple1]

Actually the ICJ ruling only called for withdrawal of Thai troops from the temple promontory, not the entire surrounding area.

It is not clear to me that there are currently any Thai troops on the promontory itself but I suspect not.

Nothing to stop Thailand from keeping troops on the land below the promontory. As it is a border area in the normal course of things there would be at least some military presence.

Last year, at the request of ICJ Court, the Thai & Cambodian military withdrew from the 17.3 sq km de-militarised zone that included the temple area. Thailand replaced military forces with Border Police. Recently the Thai army reinforced the Border Police with 4,000 soldiers. I would assume it’s the Border Police that secure the actual area subject to the Court’s ruling.

[kuiburi]

Thaksin gave Preah Vihear to Sen as part of a deal for oil and gas concessions in the gulf that personally profited them both.

I accept this as fact but now we see see both the fearless leader and Sondhi with the same opinion... Is orange the next colour of political despotism?

Taksin most definitely did not "give" Preah Vihear to HunSen.

Preah Vihear has always belonged to Cambodia and a ruling in 1962 by the ICJ confirmed this.

Taksin and Hun Sen had worked out a deal regarding temple management based on the fact that Cambodia owned the temple but Thailand owned the easiest access to it. As bad as these two characters are (very bad IMO) the concept was reasonable and a win win. However the agreement -- as well as the plan to share oil revenues -- was immediately scrapped after the coup, and remains scrapped.

This court case had nothing to do with ownership of the temple. It was about a small scrap of land around the temple which no one lives on and which has no utility other than for access to the temple from Thailand and potentially development as part of attractions at the temple. Even if Thailand had totally won the ruling (they did in fact win about 75% of it), doesn't do them an iota of good. This is all political smoke and mirros.

In 1904, Siam and the French colonial authorities ruling Cambodia formed a joint commission to demarcate their mutual border. In the vicinity of the temple, the group was tasked by the two governments to work under the principle that the border would follow the watershed line of the Dângrêk mountain range, which places nearly all of Preah Vihear temple on Thailand's side. In 1907, after survey work, French officers drew up a map to show the border’s location. However, the resulting topographic map, which was sent to Siamese authorities and used in the 1962 (ICJ) ruling, showed the line deviating from the watershed without explanation in the Preah Vihear area, placing all of the temple on the Cambodian side.

[Spare]

No Farangs can order Thai around.

If Thai want to withdraw, Thai withdraw; nothing to do with ICJ or any other Farangs.

Thai is Thailand, not ICJland or Farangland.

[Jim walker]

Maybe the ICJ made a big mistake and will announce tomorrow or next year that it was all wrong and it’ all belongs to Thailand. Humble gracious and diplomatic in defeat to the end Thai Army.

[JulesMad]

ICJ ruling is straight and clear. If Thailand will not withdraw, they have invaded Cambodia ipso facto...

Of course, that is not how the Thai (government) sees it

[Baerboxer]

Thaksin gave Preah Vihear to Sen as part of a deal for oil and gas concessions in the gulf that personally profited them both.

I accept this as fact but now we see see both the fearless leader and Sondhi with the same opinion... Is orange the next colour of political despotism?

These personal deals that everybody knows about but never provide proof of - Care to help us out there?

He said Abhisit and Thai "yellow shirt" group have repeatedly claimed that former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has " mysterious advantage" with Cambodia on the negotiation of the area of overlapping maritime claim.

They also alleged that the current Thai government was loosening struggle on the overland dispute, especially the Preah Vihear temple area, in order to get benefits from the overlapping maritime oil and gas area, Hun Sen said.

"You, Abhisit, should show evidence to prove your allegations whether what benefits Thaksin gets from Cambodia. If you have no evidence, it means that you are cheating more than 60 million Thais and over 14 million Cambodians," he said. "This is your dirty politics."

http://www.dap-news.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10024:cambodian-pm-blasts-former-thai-pm-abhisit-for-involving-cambodia-in-thai-internal-conflict&catid=1:local-news&Itemid=18

Mr Surapong said his government has not held any negotiations about the zone with Cambodia as it is a sensitive issue.

He said he was afraid the issue would be whipped up politically by some anti-government groups.

Mr Surapong insisted the government has not held talks about the issue since the Abhisit government ordered the Foreign Affairs Ministry to scrap the Memorandum of Understanding on the overlapping area in November 2009.

The then government issued the order after former deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban visited Cambodia in June 2009 in an attempt to negotiate the overlapping marine zone.

"I want to make the same demand as Hun Sen did. Mr Abhisit must provide evidence proving Thaksin is involved," Mr Surapong said.

"Today, we have to stay with the facts. I don't want to drag it into politics."

http://khmerization.blogspot.com/2013/01/abhisit-stands-by-thaksin-oil-gas-deal.html

Of course both Hun Set and Thaksin are known for their honesty, integrity, high ethical behavior, respect of law and justice and love of their countries.

To suggest either would engage in secret underhand deals that would further enrich and benefit their clans, at the expense of their countries' citizens, without providing clear irrefutable evidence is very naughty indeed.

Should the joint explorations of oil and gas go forward, any involvement of Shin Inc companies, or any "consultations" provided by Shin clan members for substantial benefits, will be based solely on merit and transparency. Any awarding of 'concessions' will again be transparent, fair and follow an agreed process.

[allan michaud]

they want push the envelope.

what is wrong with them>?????

Errrr. TIT

[allan michaud]

Thaksin gave Preah Vihear to Sen as part of a deal for oil and gas concessions in the gulf that personally profited them both.

I accept this as fact but now we see see both the fearless leader and Sondhi with the same opinion... Is orange the next colour of political despotism?

Really, how did you come to this conclusion? As far as I am concerned Thaksin had nothing to do with it, it was all agreed in 1962.

[DrTuner]

A lot of trouble about a pile of rocks.

[Thaddeus]

Thaksin gave Preah Vihear to Sen as part of a deal for oil and gas concessions in the gulf that personally profited them both.

I accept this as fact but now we see see both the fearless leader and Sondhi with the same opinion... Is orange the next colour of political despotism?

Really, how did you come to this conclusion? As far as I am concerned Thaksin had nothing to do with it, it was all agreed in 1962.

The dispute with Cambodia began when Foreign Minister Noppadom Pattama supported Cambodia’s bid for UNESCO recognition for Preah Vihear as a world heritage site.

Source: http://citation.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/4/1/5/4/7/pages415474/p415474-15.php

And Noppadom doesn't have a reputation for being capable of independent though, just follows orders.

[cekipa]

 

 He (the Second Army Region commander Lt-Gen CHarnchai Phuthong) said that the Second Army now would have the duty to explain to the border people on the ruling and to ensure their safety.

 

 

Ahem, the people living in the area wouldn't have a problem with their safety if the troops were pulled out, as instructed by the ICJ.

True, but the lame excuse is their last face saving effort. C'mon guys, the ruling has been a slap for LOS. They need some time to recover.

[bigbamboo]

This is the most important statement to come from the Defence Ministry in this course of this affair. Surely it should have been announced by the DM herself?

[oxo1947]

Thailand will not withdraw troops from the area of the Preah VIhear temple.



And here we go---so much for all those promises to accept the umpire decision etc......

[Always18]

Stupid, stupid children - can't be SEEN to obey the teacher's instructions...............

[Bluespunk]

No Farangs can order Thai around.

If Thai want to withdraw, Thai withdraw; nothing to do with ICJ or any other Farangs.

Thai is Thailand, not ICJland or Farangland.

You may speak in jest but some of the more rabid nationalists are following this line of, for want of a better word, thought. They are wrong and are not going to be happy about facing this truth.

[MilesofSmiles]

Would be nice if they got booted out of the UN for stunts like this.

[fabianfred]

Stupid 'face'... Asians biggest problem...

Sent from my GT-N8000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[finnomick]

Even the most stupid footballer understands: means he has to leave the field!!

But not Thailand, because they think that Thainess entitles them to play by their rules only!

Leave the settling of the ICJ-ruling to the Khmer village heads on both side of the boarder. No doubt those down to earth people will manage it to the satisfaction of all Khmer people living in the actual area.

Instead of involving the army, nationalists and selfserving politicians, who don't give a shit about the local people, but are only trying to promote their own petty agenda!!

Here here soi41, couldn't put it better myself. I suppose the Thai's will now ask the ICJ to interpret the meaning of Thailand withdrawing all troops, police, guards and keepers from the vicinity of Preah Vihear......

[johnlandy]

they want push the envelope.

what is wrong with them>?????

If you haven't worked that out by now you never will.

They cannot lose face but what they might well lose in a armed conflict is their lives.

A real 'Dads Army' and you would only need a stiff breeze to blow them away.

[fab4]

These personal deals that everybody knows about but never provide proof of - Care to help us out there?

He said Abhisit and Thai "yellow shirt" group have repeatedly claimed that former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has " mysterious advantage" with Cambodia on the negotiation of the area of overlapping maritime claim.

They also alleged that the current Thai government was loosening struggle on the overland dispute, especially the Preah Vihear temple area, in order to get benefits from the overlapping maritime oil and gas area, Hun Sen said.

"You, Abhisit, should show evidence to prove your allegations whether what benefits Thaksin gets from Cambodia. If you have no evidence, it means that you are cheating more than 60 million Thais and over 14 million Cambodians," he said. "This is your dirty politics."

http://www.dap-news.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10024:cambodian-pm-blasts-former-thai-pm-abhisit-for-involving-cambodia-in-thai-internal-conflict&catid=1:local-news&Itemid=18

Mr Surapong said his government has not held any negotiations about the zone with Cambodia as it is a sensitive issue.

He said he was afraid the issue would be whipped up politically by some anti-government groups.

Mr Surapong insisted the government has not held talks about the issue since the Abhisit government ordered the Foreign Affairs Ministry to scrap the Memorandum of Understanding on the overlapping area in November 2009.

The then government issued the order after former deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban visited Cambodia in June 2009 in an attempt to negotiate the overlapping marine zone.

"I want to make the same demand as Hun Sen did. Mr Abhisit must provide evidence proving Thaksin is involved," Mr Surapong said.

"Today, we have to stay with the facts. I don't want to drag it into politics."

http://khmerization.blogspot.com/2013/01/abhisit-stands-by-thaksin-oil-gas-deal.html

Of course both Hun Set and Thaksin are known for their honesty, integrity, high ethical behavior, respect of law and justice and love of their countries.

To suggest either would engage in secret underhand deals that would further enrich and benefit their clans, at the expense of their countries' citizens, without providing clear irrefutable evidence is very naughty indeed.

Should the joint explorations of oil and gas go forward, any involvement of Shin Inc companies, or any "consultations" provided by Shin clan members for substantial benefits, will be based solely on merit and transparency. Any awarding of 'concessions' will again be transparent, fair and follow an agreed process.

So, no proof then. You realise that abhisit has been known to lie, especially for political reasons, couple that with an unhealthy obsession with Thaksin. He lied to a Court and was found out.

If these allegations are true he's had plenty of time to reveal them.

"Should the joint explorations of oil and gas go forward, any involvement of Shin Inc companies, or any "consultations" provided by Shin clan members for substantial benefits, will be based solely on merit and transparency. Any awarding of 'concessions' will again be transparent, fair and follow an agreed process"

Your point is.............?

Is Thaksin to be banned from doing business with any country that his government had ever had contact with?

As for giving land away for favourable business deals, the final word. The ICJ were asked to re interpret the original verdict of 1962. In 1962 Thaksin was aged 13. His influence at that age was not known to include Heads of State or ICJ Panels and their verdicts.

[skorchio]

Did anyone expect anything different ? really?

[Robby nz]

I wonder if all you posters who know all about this could explain to me exactly where the Thai Army is?

As I understand it the only suggestion or implication that they are, or have been for a long time in the actual temple, is the headline of this topic.

I have seen nothing anywhere that indicates that the Thai Army is in the area that the ICJ has just said belongs to Cambodia.

The army were there, when this ruling was being deliberated on, in order to A. Protect Thai sovereignty should there be any incursion, B. To help and protect local people who live in Thailand, but not in the disputed area, should there be any problems and C. To ensure that none of the loony nationalists, who have talked of violence. do not turn up and make trouble.

Seems to me that these reasons for them being there are still valid.

There is now also the clean up aspect with unexploded mines, shells etc in the area which will need the expertise of bomb disposal teams from both countries.

The ICJ has not demarcated any border, other than in the immediate vicinity of the temple leaving this up to negotiations between the 2 countries.

I doubt there are any Thai army in the actual disputed area however if those who 'know it all' can show proof that they are then I would believe that proof.

Hun Sen's telling Thailand to get out is only posturing for his own people to show what a big man he is by ordering Thailand around.

He needs an image boost as he has problems of his own with protests over what his opposition claim was cheating in the recent election.

[outsider]

Thailand... GROW UP!!!

It's appalling to note that troop withdrawal 'would depend on a discussion at the meeting of the joint cooperation committee...' What is there to discuss??? Even if there is, the fact remains that the ICJ ruling specifically said Thailand should withdraw its troops from that area. Again, this is a country that wants to be taken seriously on the international arena, yet behave like a recalcitrant child at every, single turn.

[AloisAmrein]

According to the ruling of ICJ Thailand has to retreat his troops from the occupied area. If the Thai government does not so, it is violating the decision of the ICJ and provokes further violent conflict. The case is abused from Thai nationalists / Yellow Shirts for internal politics.If the Thai government is not able to find a deal with Cambodia, the fighting will go on, which will not be in favour for Thailand after the decision of the ICJ:

[AloisAmrein]

According to the ruling of ICJ Thailand has to retreat his troops from the occupied area. If the Thai government does not so, it is violating the decision of the ICJ and provokes further violent conflict. The case is abused from Thai nationalists / Yellow Shirts for internal politics.If the Thai government is not able to find a deal with Cambodia, the fighting will go on, which will not be in favour for Thailand after the decision of the ICJ.

[TPI]

i blame the french

Agreed! They were so busy trying to outmanouver the British that they cocked everything!

[TPI]

I wonder if all you posters who know all about this could explain to me exactly where the Thai Army is?

As I understand it the only suggestion or implication that they are, or have been for a long time in the actual temple, is the headline of this topic.

I have seen nothing anywhere that indicates that the Thai Army is in the area that the ICJ has just said belongs to Cambodia.

The army were there, when this ruling was being deliberated on, in order to A. Protect Thai sovereignty should there be any incursion, B. To help and protect local people who live in Thailand, but not in the disputed area, should there be any problems and C. To ensure that none of the loony nationalists, who have talked of violence. do not turn up and make trouble.

Seems to me that these reasons for them being there are still valid.

There is now also the clean up aspect with unexploded mines, shells etc in the area which will need the expertise of bomb disposal teams from both countries.

The ICJ has not demarcated any border, other than in the immediate vicinity of the temple leaving this up to negotiations between the 2 countries.

I doubt there are any Thai army in the actual disputed area however if those who 'know it all' can show proof that they are then I would believe that proof.

Hun Sen's telling Thailand to get out is only posturing for his own people to show what a big man he is by ordering Thailand around.

He needs an image boost as he has problems of his own with protests over what his opposition claim was cheating in the recent election.

Didn't the ICJ in its ruling say thast the area is well defined as there is an escarpment around 3 sides of the temple??

[Arkady]

They have only had 52 years to withdraw their troops from the promontory.

[whybother]

They have only had 52 years to withdraw their troops from the promontory.

Why would they withdraw troops from an area that they thought was theirs?

It's only now that the courts have been specific about the area they should withdraw from.