Need for work permit if located in Thailand, working and getting paid salary from company abroad

[GettingOlder]

I hope some can advise about work permit requirements.

I will shortly move to from Malaysia to Thailand for initially 1/2 year. During the period I will continue work for same company. The work is (almost entirely) related to customers located abroad, but a fair amount will be carried out via PC, phone etc. while residing in Thailand. The salary will be paid by the abroad company (same mother company, but probably switching from Malaysian to Danish office).

I have until now assumed that a Thai work permit is not required, but doubt is coming up. And does the situation change if some of the work is actually concerning Thai companies, however salary still being paid from abroad?

Thanks in advance !

[PoorSucker]

All work by a foreigner in Thailand is required to to worker have have a work permit.

Said that, if you work with IT and paid abroad the revenue department will not know.

By law you will be working illegally.

[dao16]

This has been a big argument I have had on this site. However, my stance has just been that you shouldn't need one if Thais are not involved in any way (I was told so by immigration officials, which doesn't satisfy some posters on this site). However, if you are dealing with Thais as customers or clients, I think they would care. Not sure how it would work, but I would look into getting a work permit. You could probably fly under the radar, but once Thai clients are involved, I would think you would need a work permit.

[BestBitterPhuket]

If you perform PAID work in Thailand, you need a work permit. It is the same as in any country. It does not matter where the money is paid from. However, just sitting there using a laptop and phone, is probably not going to lead to any discoveries by the immigration, so I don't think you should bother about applying for a work permit, but if you get an office and hire some staff, then it is a different case.

Can you imagine if a thai comes to UK doing construction work, but claiming he is not working because his salary is paid in Thailand? Do you think he would get a green light to continue or get deported. It's the same in your case. Performing your PAID work in Thailand also means that you are taxable there.

[appwill]

If you perform PAID work in Thailand, you need a work permit.

You need a work permit when volunteering for free too!

[KED]

But there is a catch 22 - if someone is paid by a company outside of Thailand for work not involving Thailand - the company paying the salary most likely cannot sponsor a work visa - so how exactly is someone in this situation supposed to obtain the work visa?

[ubonjoe]

But there is a catch 22 - if someone is paid by a company outside of Thailand for work not involving Thailand - the company paying the salary most likely cannot sponsor a work visa - so how exactly is someone in this situation supposed to obtain the work visa?

There no such thing as a work visa. There is non immigrant B visas for work or business.

A work permit cannot be obtained unless working for a company registered in Thailand.

[Upnotover]

But there is a catch 22 - if someone is paid by a company outside of Thailand for work not involving Thailand - the company paying the salary most likely cannot sponsor a work visa - so how exactly is someone in this situation supposed to obtain the work visa?

I think the answer to that is that they can't. Why would Thailand want to create rules to suit anybody that happens to want to be here?

[dao16]

But there is a catch 22 - if someone is paid by a company outside of Thailand for work not involving Thailand - the company paying the salary most likely cannot sponsor a work visa - so how exactly is someone in this situation supposed to obtain the work visa?

I think the answer to that is that they can't. Why would Thailand want to create rules to suit anybody that happens to want to be here?

Well, there definitely are people working here on business visas. I don't know how they make the visa, but I know for sure I met a guy who was a guide in Laos and Thailand (saw him loading european visitors onto a bus and he was speaking Thai and Laos as needed--even my wife was impressed with his Laos) and he said he was all legally registered here. I ran into another guy taking japanese tourists through the airport. Not sure if he was legal or not, but he was definitely working (didn't get a chance to talk to him). FInally, met a guy in BKK and he was running some business all over SE Asia, and he said he had a business visa for the stuff he did in Thailand--I assume he made a work permit, too...he was conducting business in the hotel very openly, not hiding anything from anyone, and I ran into him multiple times at that hotel (nice on for business...cheap for BKK but with all the copy machines, computer and fax machines you might need to work with).

So, at least that last guy was only operating in Thailand some of the year but was still legal.

[Evolare]

Yes there are people here with business visas or spouse visa having businesses abroad or working for abroad businesses that have nothing to do with thailand.

Neither their business or client are based or related to Thailand. Therefor they cannot get work permit here without setting up a local business. But as several of my friends in this predicament have checked with Immigration they have got the same answer as Dao16. They cant get it and they dont need the work permit as long as the business has no ties to thailand.

Thailand is not a country that makes it easy to invest here or even get a workpermit.

So from my point of view as long as your not doing business related to thailand. ..go about it but as soon as you will do work with thai businesses make sure you have a work permit or a business visa with a partnership invitation from one of those businesses. Also i dont know what kind of job you do but if its on a consultancy advisory level then B-visa is ok or if manual labor.which requires work permit then your company need a local company registered and you'll have to pay tax here.

[Alwyn]

If you perform PAID work in Thailand, you need a work permit. It is the same as in any country. It does not matter where the money is paid from. However, just sitting there using a laptop and phone, is probably not going to lead to any discoveries by the immigration, so I don't think you should bother about applying for a work permit, but if you get an office and hire some staff, then it is a different case.

Can you imagine if a thai comes to UK doing construction work, but claiming he is not working because his salary is paid in Thailand? Do you think he would get a green light to continue or get deported. It's the same in your case. Performing your PAID work in Thailand also means that you are taxable there.

Not really a similar scenario is it? If a Thai was living in the UK working for a Thai company involving Thai clients around the World or whatever and being paid in Thailand the authorities in the UK would not care, he/she would be doing nothing illegal (assuming the work itself isn't gun-running or something) and they would not be taking work from a Brit etc etc Whereas if he was working in construction as you mentioned, he would be working in England for a British (assumably) company and totally illegal. He could probably even rent an office too if he was in the UK!

[ThaidDown]

'I asked Immigration and they said it was ok' is hardly any justification.

Immigration do not issue work permits. Go and ask the Ministry of Labour, who do issue work permits, if they say a work permit is not needed get that in writing and proceed.

[appwill]

Immigration do not issue work permits. Go and ask the Ministry of Labour, who do issue work permits, if they say a work permit is not needed get that in writing and proceed.

Well, I think it is still related to immigration, when they ask you how are you supporting yourself without having a work permit. I'm not exactly convinced that a paper from the MOL will suffice, even if this happened in other governments.

[BestBitterPhuket]

If you perform PAID work in Thailand, you need a work permit. It is the same as in any country. It does not matter where the money is paid from. However, just sitting there using a laptop and phone, is probably not going to lead to any discoveries by the immigration, so I don't think you should bother about applying for a work permit, but if you get an office and hire some staff, then it is a different case.

Can you imagine if a thai comes to UK doing construction work, but claiming he is not working because his salary is paid in Thailand? Do you think he would get a green light to continue or get deported. It's the same in your case. Performing your PAID work in Thailand also means that you are taxable there.

Not really a similar scenario is it? If a Thai was living in the UK working for a Thai company involving Thai clients around the World or whatever and being paid in Thailand the authorities in the UK would not care, he/she would be doing nothing illegal (assuming the work itself isn't gun-running or something) and they would not be taking work from a Brit etc etc Whereas if he was working in construction as you mentioned, he would be working in England for a British (assumably) company and totally illegal. He could probably even rent an office too if he was in the UK!

You are wrong, The UK government would care very much and he would be doing something illegal working without a work permit in UK. It does not matter if he work

For a thai company or not or where the salary is paid. What matters is WHERE he is working. The rules are the same there. As long as the work is performed in UK or Thailand, a work permit is required and tax shall be paid. That's how it works in the entire world.

[Alwyn]

If you perform PAID work in Thailand, you need a work permit. It is the same as in any country. It does not matter where the money is paid from. However, just sitting there using a laptop and phone, is probably not going to lead to any discoveries by the immigration, so I don't think you should bother about applying for a work permit, but if you get an office and hire some staff, then it is a different case.

Can you imagine if a thai comes to UK doing construction work, but claiming he is not working because his salary is paid in Thailand? Do you think he would get a green light to continue or get deported. It's the same in your case. Performing your PAID work in Thailand also means that you are taxable there.

Not really a similar scenario is it? If a Thai was living in the UK working for a Thai company involving Thai clients around the World or whatever and being paid in Thailand the authorities in the UK would not care, he/she would be doing nothing illegal (assuming the work itself isn't gun-running or something) and they would not be taking work from a Brit etc etc Whereas if he was working in construction as you mentioned, he would be working in England for a British (assumably) company and totally illegal. He could probably even rent an office too if he was in the UK!

You are wrong, The UK government would care very much and he would be doing something illegal working without a work permit in UK. It does not matter if he work

For a thai company or not or where the salary is paid. What matters is WHERE he is working. The rules are the same there. As long as the work is performed in UK or Thailand, a work permit is required and tax shall be paid. That's how it works in the entire world.

I think you'e incorrect but there we go - My wife was working in the UK (was a while ago) as a journalist for a Swedish newspaper and she had no issues etc. We had notified Croydon and there was no questions about it being illegal/immoral or anything else.

[salapau]

Don't tell anyone, and I mean anyone in Thailand. Get your salary paid into a bank in another country.

[KED]

But there is a catch 22 - if someone is paid by a company outside of Thailand for work not involving Thailand - the company paying the salary most likely cannot sponsor a work visa - so how exactly is someone in this situation supposed to obtain the work visa?

I think the answer to that is that they can't. Why would Thailand want to create rules to suit anybody that happens to want to be here?

Because someone bringing in money to Thailand for rent, for food, for living expenses would support jobs for locals and grow the Thai economy.

[Powder]

This has been a big argument I have had on this site. However, my stance has just been that you shouldn't need one if Thais are not involved in any way (I was told so by immigration officials, which doesn't satisfy some posters on this site). However, if you are dealing with Thais as customers or clients, I think they would care. Not sure how it would work, but I would look into getting a work permit. You could probably fly under the radar, but once Thai clients are involved, I would think you would need a work permit.

i think you are right. Suppose someone is doing phoneconsulting for a company outside Thailand, by using VOIP.

For me its a gray area, but maybe i am wrong.

[Mudcrab]

But there is a catch 22 - if someone is paid by a company outside of Thailand for work not involving Thailand - the company paying the salary most likely cannot sponsor a work visa - so how exactly is someone in this situation supposed to obtain the work visa?

There no such thing as a work visa. There is non immigrant B visas for work or business.

A work permit cannot be obtained unless working for a company registered in Thailand.

Not 100%true. You can get a visa on arrival for work purposes for 15 days I believe under the Australian Thailand free trade agreement. Many of my colleagues have done such.

We need to be mindful of setting ourselves up as the authority on on all things immigration wise when there are many obscure rules that the average Thai Visa mentor may not be aware of. Not all people are looking to stay here long term or to rort the system to do so.

[White Tiger]

GettingOlder - you work for a multi-national company (you say they operate in Malaysia, Thailand and Denmark). Have you checked what your employer's HR department say? Often companies which operate multi-nationally will know about this kind of stuff and will be geared up to give employees the help and advice they need.

If I worked for a company that wanted to send me on an overseas posting, or an overseas secondment, then I would certainly ask them for assistance with this kind of stuff. If they told me they couldn't or wouldn't help then I'd tell them to find someone else to send overseas.

[Mudcrab]

'I asked Immigration and they said it was ok' is hardly any justification.

Immigration do not issue work permits. Go and ask the Ministry of Labour, who do issue work permits, if they say a work permit is not needed get that in writing and proceed.

yep. try running a hotel with only foreign employees catering only to foreigners...noThais involved...good luck ...or should that be chok dee

[dao16]

'I asked Immigration and they said it was ok' is hardly any justification.

Immigration do not issue work permits. Go and ask the Ministry of Labour, who do issue work permits, if they say a work permit is not needed get that in writing and proceed.

yep. try running a hotel with only foreign employees catering only to foreigners...noThais involved...good luck ...or should that be chok dee

Well, obviously, if you are running a business with foreigners or having business conducted in thailand that only concerns foreigners, you would still be operating a business here....didn't think I had to spell that part out. argh....that is different to providing services to companies abroad that have no interests here and never meeting them here and the only connection they have to here is that you take there money and spend it here. Those are two different situations, it would seem.

[ubonjoe]

 

But there is a catch 22 - if someone is paid by a company outside of Thailand for work not involving Thailand - the company paying the salary most likely cannot sponsor a work visa - so how exactly is someone in this situation supposed to obtain the work visa?

There no such thing as a work visa. There is non immigrant B visas for work or business.

A work permit cannot be obtained unless working for a company registered in Thailand.

 

Not 100%true.  You can get a visa on arrival for work purposes for 15 days I believe under the Australian Thailand free trade agreement. Many of my colleagues  have done such.

We need to be mindful of setting ourselves up as the authority on on all things immigration wise when there are many obscure rules that the average Thai Visa mentor may not be aware of. Not all people are looking to stay here long term or to rort the system to do so. 

That would be what often is called an emergency work permit that is valid for 15 days. It is not a visa. And has to be applied for not given on arrival. It would also require a non immigrant visa entry to get.

It is not something special due to a free trade agreement.

[scorecard]

But there is a catch 22 - if someone is paid by a company outside of Thailand for work not involving Thailand - the company paying the salary most likely cannot sponsor a work visa - so how exactly is someone in this situation supposed to obtain the work visa?

I think the answer to that is that they can't. Why would Thailand want to create rules to suit anybody that happens to want to be here?

Well, there definitely are people working here on business visas. I don't know how they make the visa, but I know for sure I met a guy who was a guide in Laos and Thailand (saw him loading european visitors onto a bus and he was speaking Thai and Laos as needed--even my wife was impressed with his Laos) and he said he was all legally registered here. I ran into another guy taking japanese tourists through the airport. Not sure if he was legal or not, but he was definitely working (didn't get a chance to talk to him). FInally, met a guy in BKK and he was running some business all over SE Asia, and he said he had a business visa for the stuff he did in Thailand--I assume he made a work permit, too...he was conducting business in the hotel very openly, not hiding anything from anyone, and I ran into him multiple times at that hotel (nice on for business...cheap for BKK but with all the copy machines, computer and fax machines you might need to work with).

So, at least that last guy was only operating in Thailand some of the year but was still legal.

I wonder whether there is confusion here on two items:

- A visa is essentially permission to be physically in Thailand (or whatever country), and there are obviously many categories including permission to be physically in Thailand for business purposes.

- However is that all that is needed? my understanding there is also the need to have a work permit which is issued by a different gov't ministry, as well as having an appropriate visa.

[scorecard]

But there is a catch 22 - if someone is paid by a company outside of Thailand for work not involving Thailand - the company paying the salary most likely cannot sponsor a work visa - so how exactly is someone in this situation supposed to obtain the work visa?

I think the answer to that is that they can't. Why would Thailand want to create rules to suit anybody that happens to want to be here?

Actually there were several posts here on TV a couple of years back about several big law firms (operating in Thailand) which have the correct set up to employ you, then 'rent' you out as a consultant or similar.

I recall there was an initial very substantial fee (paid by you) to set it all up, then a substantial monthly charge (law firm to you) to continue the arrangement.

Whether this still happens I'm not sure.

[Mudcrab]

But there is a catch 22 - if someone is paid by a company outside of Thailand for work not involving Thailand - the company paying the salary most likely cannot sponsor a work visa - so how exactly is someone in this situation supposed to obtain the work visa?

There no such thing as a work visa. There is non immigrant B visas for work or business.

A work permit cannot be obtained unless working for a company registered in Thailand.

Not 100%true. You can get a visa on arrival for work purposes for 15 days I believe under the Australian Thailand free trade agreement. Many of my colleagues have done such.

We need to be mindful of setting ourselves up as the authority on on all things immigration wise when there are many obscure rules that the average Thai Visa mentor may not be aware of. Not all people are looking to stay here long term or to rort the system to do so.

That would be what often is called an emergency work permit that is valid for 15 days. It is not a visa. And has to be applied for not given on arrival. It would also require a non immigrant visa entry to get.

It is not something special due to a free trade agreement.

Wrong...visa exemption. Tick the reason for entry to Kingdom...business. 15 days for an Aussie. Go check the facts. Australia Thailand free trade agreement two thousand and google.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Mudcrab

[Mudcrab]

But there is a catch 22 - if someone is paid by a company outside of Thailand for work not involving Thailand - the company paying the salary most likely cannot sponsor a work visa - so how exactly is someone in this situation supposed to obtain the work visa?

There no such thing as a work visa. There is non immigrant B visas for work or business.

A work permit cannot be obtained unless working for a company registered in Thailand.

Not 100%true. You can get a visa on arrival for work purposes for 15 days I believe under the Australian Thailand free trade agreement. Many of my colleagues have done such.

We need to be mindful of setting ourselves up as the authority on on all things immigration wise when there are many obscure rules that the average Thai Visa mentor may not be aware of. Not all people are looking to stay here long term or to rort the system to do so.

That would be what often is called an emergency work permit that is valid for 15 days. It is not a visa. And has to be applied for not given on arrival. It would also require a non immigrant visa entry to get.

It is not something special due to a free trade agreement.

• Thailand will not require a work permit for Australian citizens who are business visitors conducting business meetings in Thailand for up to 15 days, and up to 90 days for APEC Travel Card Holders.

save you the trouble of searching

[scorecard]

But there is a catch 22 - if someone is paid by a company outside of Thailand for work not involving Thailand - the company paying the salary most likely cannot sponsor a work visa - so how exactly is someone in this situation supposed to obtain the work visa?

I think the answer to that is that they can't. Why would Thailand want to create rules to suit anybody that happens to want to be here?

Well, there definitely are people working here on business visas. I don't know how they make the visa, but I know for sure I met a guy who was a guide in Laos and Thailand (saw him loading european visitors onto a bus and he was speaking Thai and Laos as needed--even my wife was impressed with his Laos) and he said he was all legally registered here. I ran into another guy taking japanese tourists through the airport. Not sure if he was legal or not, but he was definitely working (didn't get a chance to talk to him). FInally, met a guy in BKK and he was running some business all over SE Asia, and he said he had a business visa for the stuff he did in Thailand--I assume he made a work permit, too...he was conducting business in the hotel very openly, not hiding anything from anyone, and I ran into him multiple times at that hotel (nice on for business...cheap for BKK but with all the copy machines, computer and fax machines you might need to work with).

So, at least that last guy was only operating in Thailand some of the year but was still legal.

Did you ask the 'tour guide' or whatever you might call him, if he had a work permit, etc.

I'm asking you this because I know a 'farang' guy who operates his own fully registered tour company (registered in Thailand), most of his business is personally guided tours in Thailand and Lao for European groups, every tiny detail taken care of by the tour guide. The guy concerned speaks several European languages plus he's fluent in spoken and written Thai and Lao.

The man is half Thai, he was born here, and has a Thai passport, but his appearance is totally western. His European father went to great lengths to ensure his son leaned multiple languages hoping it would be useful later in his son's life, and in reality it gives him a strong competitive advantage in his tour business.

[Mudcrab]

But there is a catch 22 - if someone is paid by a company outside of Thailand for work not involving Thailand - the company paying the salary most likely cannot sponsor a work visa - so how exactly is someone in this situation supposed to obtain the work visa?

There no such thing as a work visa. There is non immigrant B visas for work or business.

A work permit cannot be obtained unless working for a company registered in Thailand.

Not 100%true. You can get a visa on arrival for work purposes for 15 days I believe under the Australian Thailand free trade agreement. Many of my colleagues have done such.

We need to be mindful of setting ourselves up as the authority on on all things immigration wise when there are many obscure rules that the average Thai Visa mentor may not be aware of. Not all people are looking to stay here long term or to rort the system to do so.

That would be what often is called an emergency work permit that is valid for 15 days. It is not a visa. And has to be applied for not given on arrival. It would also require a non immigrant visa entry to get.

It is not something special due to a free trade agreement.

Key outcomes of the Thailand-Australia Free Trade Agreement

thats what it's called

[Mudcrab]

My apologies if I have upset the Visa Knowledge Bank of whatever.

No worries this is still a good source of not only information but also entertainment.

My wife and I pass on our thoughts and well wishes to everyone for whatever the ceremony was today where we walked around the village following the piece of string that tied everyone's house to the temple (those that know, know what I mean).

Closely followed by the obligatory Ute with the nuclear powered sound system (don't you love the Issan guitars and drums...I do!).

Have great weekend !!