Hitting Kids

[Thaiboxer]

Anyway, looking after kids is an awesome experience, I love it and we now have a little girl to do it all over again with. I am terrified that she may get away with more than he ever did. Daddy's little girl and all.

One of the reasons I wanted my wife and I to have a girl is because I thought girls would be easier to handle than boys, but after seeing a few naughty girls I know that girls can be just as tough. As it turns out, we had a boy. He's a bit young to be a little devil but we will do our best with him so he doesn't end up like the kids I used to teach. Boys and girls both present their own challenges.

[Neeranam]

A harness...just like a puppy hey. I hate these things, really if you cannot control your child to the extend they need a dog leash, stay home.

I saw a guy with his Thai missus walking down Sukhumvit the other day with one on his child. This would have to be the first time I have seen one used for well over a decade and even then it was probably another decade earlier for the last time. He looked like the kind of dropkick that needed a leash himself.

We did have a leash thing for her when she was younger - I think it's a good idea for kids when they have just learnt to walk, especially when around traffic. It makes it much easier for the parents anyway. I only used it a couple of times and was amazed as many Thai people asked where I bought it, saying it was a great idea. Also, a few showed some sort of disgust. It is not the Thai traditional way - which is keeping the child near to the body. The same goes for prams(strollers). Some Thais said they are a bad idea and you get a better relationship with the child when holding them. I read something in the West about this being the new bonding method, stuff like skin to skin contact especially when the child is very young. They change their minds so often I don't know whther to believe them or not. I know nothing about parenting, and have to learn. I've never been around kids at all before my daughter came. That's why I've started posting on this section of TV. Much more time-worthy that "what song I'm listening to".

The parenting I got was the best that they could do under the circumstances. There are lessons to be learnt from it.

I started early with him and I also think of things in advance and try to foresee any possible problems and talk to him about them first. I find this helps more than anything in setting his mind to be ready for it and he is conditioned to what might happen or what is expected to happen...some examples that happened today and a few days ago.

How early do you mean? My daughter is 3 years and 3 months, and has just really started talking well enough to converse properly.

Like any kid, he has many toys, he is not spoiled, he has enough for his age to keep him vary busy. Like any child, you always want more and you always want what you see in the toy shops.

This has happened before, but I decide to take him to a toy shop, not to buy anything, just to look. How many kids will go with this plan and see it through without changing their minds, crying, or wanting everything in sight.

I bought a bicycle for my wife yesterday and my daaughter was trying out the little bikes in the shop. I decided to let her so we could look at the bikes properly. Maybe this is wrong? Should we get her to stand at attention next to us the whole time?

Before we go there, I say to him "do you want to go to the toy shop and have a look around and play with some toys, but only looking and playing ok, no buying today ok" he may say yes, or he may say why not buy something today, or even ok but if we see something really special can I get it. I say to him "no, we are only looking and you can play today ok, otherwise we not go ok" he says ok, we go, he looks, he plays and after 15 minutes he is happy to walk out of the shop all smiles and happy, not even asking to buy something.

I did actually say to her that we were going to buy 'mummy' a bike and said is she were good that I'd buy her ice-cream and doughnuts. When I tried to get her to get off the bike and come to the checkout, all hel_l broke loose - "I want a new bike" and tears. I had to lift her up and restrain her, but I gave in(probably wrong). I gave her a spank, but not too hard, but enough for all the people nearby to stare. What do I do in this situation?

Other times when things are going wrong, I sit him down on my lap and talk to him gently about it. I aslo threaten to send him to his room and stay alone to think about what he has done. First time I did this was over a year ago and it worked so well, that even the threat of it has him doing what he is asked to do no questions asked. I have not had to send him to his room for over a year, except for 2 nights ago for the first time for a long time.

This could be an answer, but I feel that is just as bad as hitting in a way.

Smacking, I can count on 2 hands the number of times I have smacked him, I can count on 2 fingers the number of times I have smacked him very hard on the backside. It hurt me more than it hurt him that was for sure.

My old man had the strap, got it accross the hands and raw backside many times. Mum had the wooden spoon. I grew up ok, but would never do it to my kids, I could not ever.

My wife has a little stick that she says is just for warning, but she has used it before.

What do they say - beat the child spare the rod?

I'm aware of the Thai sayings - รักวัวให้ผูก and รักลูกให้ตี which mean if you love the cow or the child beat it, and beginning to think I am being to much of a walkover with her. She knows I back down in the end. Also when her mother beats her, she comes running to me. Next time I will try to be firm and send her to her room for 5 minutes, although I'm not looking forward to that!

As for your child running of in shops, I am not sure what to do to stop it in the immediate future, parenting is something that develops between you and your kids, not something that you can do overnight to make a fixit solution. My son and I have developed in a way that I can talk to him and he will then do almost anything in the correct manner, with slight variations for youth and the learning curve.

Now the way my son behaves and listens to me, is proff that it is not just the child that is the cause of any tantrums or misbehaving.

I agree, there is a lot of fault, if not all, with me in this matter.

Anyway, looking after kids is an awesome experience, I love it and we now have a little girl to do it all over again with. I am terrified that she may get away with more than he ever did. Daddy's little girl and all.

It's great isn't it

[Nawtilus]

A harness...just like a puppy hey. I hate these things, really if you cannot control your child to the extend they need a dog leash, stay home.

I saw a guy with his Thai missus walking down Sukhumvit the other day with one on his child. This would have to be the first time I have seen one used for well over a decade and even then it was probably another decade earlier for the last time. He looked like the kind of dropkick that needed a leash himself.

We did have a leash thing for her when she was younger - I think it's a good idea for kids when they have just learnt to walk, especially when around traffic. It makes it much easier for the parents anyway. I only used it a couple of times and was amazed as many Thai people asked where I bought it, saying it was a great idea. Also, a few showed some sort of disgust. It is not the Thai traditional way - which is keeping the child near to the body. The same goes for prams(strollers). Some Thais said they are a bad idea and you get a better relationship with the child when holding them. I read something in the West about this being the new bonding method, stuff like skin to skin contact especially when the child is very young. They change their minds so often I don't know whther to believe them or not. I know nothing about parenting, and have to learn. I've never been around kids at all before my daughter came. That's why I've started posting on this section of TV. Much more time-worthy that "what song I'm listening to".

The parenting I got was the best that they could do under the circumstances. There are lessons to be learnt from it.

My parenst were great really, got everything ever needed and like I said, I grew up ok. But they had the old fashioned idea in their days of discipline and force and straps and so on. I just could never do it to my own. Even when you say "when your wife BEATS your child" it makes me cringe. I expect and surely hope that by beat you mean smack and yes, even when my missus does it on the rare occassion that she does and makes him cry, I feel so bad for him and just want to picl him up and comfort him.

I was never around kids before my son was born, in fact I hated kids and they hated me. Then immediately things changed and you could not imagining them changing in such an opposite direction. I learnt it all as I went along. But I loved it, I spent a lot of time with him and we grew together. Now I could never imagine a life without them.

I started early with him and I also think of things in advance and try to foresee any possible problems and talk to him about them first. I find this helps more than anything in setting his mind to be ready for it and he is conditioned to what might happen or what is expected to happen...some examples that happened today and a few days ago.

How early do you mean? My daughter is 3 years and 3 months, and has just really started talking well enough to converse properly.

Well, by early I mean from day one, I spent alot of time with him. I would take him out every day for walks and shopping. I also mean that from the moment he started to understand, probably around 2yo I would teach him things, right and wrong and calm him and just do whatever came natural, whatever felt right. After all nobody was around to teach me, my parents were dead, so we went it all alone. But my son started talking very early, at 2yo I could chat with him, at 3yo we could have great conversations. Now he has just turned 4yo and we can chat for hours on end and he never shuts up. He can also speak Thai fluently. In fact at 2yo he was translating for me certain things and now at 4 i can get him to ask for stuff in Thai and he tells me in English or vice versa.

Just do whatever feels right, if it feels right and the way to do it, you cannot go wrong.

Like any kid, he has many toys, he is not spoiled, he has enough for his age to keep him vary busy. Like any child, you always want more and you always want what you see in the toy shops.

This has happened before, but I decide to take him to a toy shop, not to buy anything, just to look. How many kids will go with this plan and see it through without changing their minds, crying, or wanting everything in sight.

I bought a bicycle for my wife yesterday and my daaughter was trying out the little bikes in the shop. I decided to let her so we could look at the bikes properly. Maybe this is wrong? Should we get her to stand at attention next to us the whole time?

not at all, we let our kids try out stuff in the shops, I guess the difference is getting them off of them. One thing I have always tried to do and that is never offer bribes or rewards for being good. I try to teach being good just for the sake of it being the right thing to do and not just do it for a reward of ice cream or such. Even to this day I still do it, although at times I have turned a blind eye to it. So what I mean by explaining things to her beforehand is, maybe say to her, ok I will let you play for a little while and ride it around, but when we are finished and ready to go, you must come along and no tears or being upset ok? My son certainly understood this at your girls age and it worked, may not work the first time, but keep trying and it will.

Before we go there, I say to him "do you want to go to the toy shop and have a look around and play with some toys, but only looking and playing ok, no buying today ok" he may say yes, or he may say why not buy something today, or even ok but if we see something really special can I get it. I say to him "no, we are only looking and you can play today ok, otherwise we not go ok" he says ok, we go, he looks, he plays and after 15 minutes he is happy to walk out of the shop all smiles and happy, not even asking to buy something.

I did actually say to her that we were going to buy 'mummy' a bike and said is she were good that I'd buy her ice-cream and doughnuts. When I tried to get her to get off the bike and come to the checkout, all hel_l broke loose - "I want a new bike" and tears. I had to lift her up and restrain her, but I gave in(probably wrong). I gave her a spank, but not too hard, but enough for all the people nearby to stare. What do I do in this situation?

Ok, if this was my son...I would not have offered/promised the ice cream and donuts. Then if there was an episode I would take her off to a quiet corner and sit her down and talk to her about it. Quietly and calmly do it until you get her settled down and listening. Keep it going until she says "ok" Then leave, then buy her an ice cream for being good, reward good, not possibly being good and definitely not for being bad.

Other times when things are going wrong, I sit him down on my lap and talk to him gently about it. I aslo threaten to send him to his room and stay alone to think about what he has done. First time I did this was over a year ago and it worked so well, that even the threat of it has him doing what he is asked to do no questions asked. I have not had to send him to his room for over a year, except for 2 nights ago for the first time for a long time.

This could be an answer, but I feel that is just as bad as hitting in a way.

It is nowhere near as bad as hitting. I never lock or even close the door. I just tell him to sit there and think about what he did. if he tries to come out beforehand, I put him back in there and yell at him...I should mention here perhaps that the relationship i have with my son, I think that he loves and thinks so much of me, that me even raising my voice to him now, he shows bitter disappointment and gets really upset. So much so that many times now, all I have to do is raise my voice, not even yell, just be stern and he does what he is told. I feel that he is so upset that his mate has yelled at him that it is all that is needed most of the time.

I tell him to sit in his room until he has thought about what he has done and when he is ready to call me and talk about it. Guaranteed 5 to 10 minutes he yells out :daddy I have thought about it can i come down now" one time I put him in his room and was about to walk out, not even been in there alone or for 1 minute, he says "daddy sit down here next to me, i want to talk to you now" This was priceless from a 3yo boy and I had a hard time hiding the smile on my face to make him think I was still upset with him.

Smacking, I can count on 2 hands the number of times I have smacked him, I can count on 2 fingers the number of times I have smacked him very hard on the backside. It hurt me more than it hurt him that was for sure.

My old man had the strap, got it accross the hands and raw backside many times. Mum had the wooden spoon. I grew up ok, but would never do it to my kids, I could not ever.

My wife has a little stick that she says is just for warning, but she has used it before.

What do they say - beat the child spare the rod?

I'm aware of the Thai sayings - รักวัวให้ผูก and รักลูกให้ตี which mean if you love the cow or the child beat it, and beginning to think I am being to much of a walkover with her. She knows I back down in the end. Also when her mother beats her, she comes running to me. Next time I will try to be firm and send her to her room for 5 minutes, although I'm not looking forward to that!

Let her cry and howl. The important things is to tell her to call you when she has thought a lot about what she did wrong. It is very very hard the first time, but really it is a wonderfull way to get things to work. Just think possibly how much this 5 minutes of crying and howling will be worth in the long run if she ends up the same as my son, smacks on very very rare occassions and not doing anyhting so bad for a year that deserves him to be sent to her room. Well worth it if you look at it that way

As for your child running of in shops, I am not sure what to do to stop it in the immediate future, parenting is something that develops between you and your kids, not something that you can do overnight to make a fixit solution. My son and I have developed in a way that I can talk to him and he will then do almost anything in the correct manner, with slight variations for youth and the learning curve.

Now the way my son behaves and listens to me, is proff that it is not just the child that is the cause of any tantrums or misbehaving.

I agree, there is a lot of fault, if not all, with me in this matter.

Anyway, looking after kids is an awesome experience, I love it and we now have a little girl to do it all over again with. I am terrified that she may get away with more than he ever did. Daddy's little girl and all.

It's great isn't it

Yes, before when you were single you hated them, you hated the longevity and committment of it, the utter permanence of it. Now none of that matters in the slightest, just the thought that something so small and a part of you loves and depends on you for everything. They love you simply because they do, no other reason.

[Thaiboxer]

Whatever you do, don't spoil your kids. I saw this far too often when I was a teacher and I still see it today from people we know. Kids need a leader and if you don't lead them they will lead you before too long. Some people let their kids get away with murder

[skylar]

I once saw a girl throw a tantrum in a shopping centre (on her back, crying and screaming), and her parents bought her an ice cream to shut her up!! I was really suprised.

[Thaiboxer]

I once saw a girl throw a tantrum in a shopping centre (on her back, crying and screaming), and her parents bought her an ice cream to shut her up!! I was really suprised.

An ice cream?! They should have bought her a knuckle sandwich, those are cheaper and generally more effective at keeping little brats quiet

[tigerbeer]

I once saw a girl throw a tantrum in a shopping centre (on her back, crying and screaming), and her parents bought her an ice cream to shut her up!! I was really suprised.

An ice cream?! They should have bought her a knuckle sandwich, those are cheaper and generally more effective at keeping little brats quiet

my son is almost 3 and daughter almost 2. son quite oftenly throws tantrums especially by throwing whatever is next to him. yesterday it was my computer keyboard. i have hit him quite a few times. he gets a bit better after the crying and screaming is all done. few hours later, tantrums come back like a storm. there must be a way of controlling him temper???

with the wife and maids, he always gets what he wants and seems like i am the bad one out there. i have to be. otherwise they become the leader as someone else mentioned earlier on this thread.

daughter doesnt respond to being smacked anymore. tones down and then gets back to whatever she wants. she generally does not have a temper but is starting to follow her brother by throwing things when she doesnt get what she wants.

last night my son asked for milk in the middle of the nights. asked once, twice and third time, the ac remote was flown right into the wall with him saying anything. next minute he had a bottle of milk in his hands. only cause i didnt want my other kids to get up. yes i have an infant of 10 days old. girl. thank god!

can someone please shed light into my options of making things better at home? its driving both me and my wife crazy. missus is also very tired being at home for confinement plus at the same time dealing with the other two kids.

hitting is definately not the solution and wanna try something else. please be as clear as possible on how to do it. help!

[PeaceBlondie]

Tigerbeer, you now have three children, ages 3, 2, and newborn? You and especially your wife are overworked. May I (as a father of six) suggest you stop having kids?

If the first child is a terror (and an active boy), he will teach his younger siblings to be the same.

Restraint. Can you hold him down until he stops? And the next time he goes into a tantrum, hold him down again until he stops again? He's a learning machine and you are his most important teacher. You can teach him to be quiet. But you'll have to invest lots of quality time.

Lots of quality time, supervising children. That's what it takes. I think.

One of my grandsons was like that at age 3. His parents were too busy and too lazy to stop him. He just kept getting worse.

[Boo]

It sounds to me like your son is confused, you say that between you your wife & the maids, he has been taught 3 different levels of accepted behavour. I suggest sitting down with your wife & maids & discussing with them how far your son is allowed to go.

If you don't allow his bad behavour but the maid or your wife gives in, then he is getting too many mixed signals. Good child rearing is based on consistancy from the parents or care givers IMO.

If he is ignored by you for bad behavour then he needs to be ignored by your wife & the maids too. he will soon learn eventually, even if you have to put up with a lot of noise & tantrums.

Try to get some agreement from his carers on how his disipline will be handled. Kids don't like being confused & respond well to consistant parenting.

[tigerbeer]

It sounds to me like your son is confused, you say that between you your wife & the maids, he has been taught 3 different levels of accepted behavour. I suggest sitting down with your wife & maids & discussing with them how far your son is allowed to go.

If you don't allow his bad behavour but the maid or your wife gives in, then he is getting too many mixed signals. Good child rearing is based on consistancy from the parents or care givers IMO.

If he is ignored by you for bad behavour then he needs to be ignored by your wife & the maids too. he will soon learn eventually, even if you have to put up with a lot of noise & tantrums.

Try to get some agreement from his carers on how his disipline will be handled. Kids don't like being confused & respond well to consistant parenting.

PeaceBlondie and Boo. Thanks for your replies. Wife has done the "tie up". and no more children. 2nd and 3rd. kids got their own lengthy stories on how they were conceived but thats for another discussion. The thing is that I had him under discipline for a while with the help of hitting him when he does wrong. He then started this whole thing again on a different level. Now am trying to keep him in a corner and hold him and make it clear to him that he is being naughty. Wife is now so fed up being at home 24/7 with the kids that she doesnt give in anymore. problem is before wife gave birth to 3rd kid, the children were at home with the maids. which we did not have a control on. by the time we were back home, it wasnt long before its time for the kids to sleep. I guess now its time we have to have control of them or we would just lose it.

boy is actually going to anuban and we have taken him away from school for a few weeks. just till the new infant settles in with the house, temperatures and other kids and people. we didnt want him bringing back all the viruses from school. he would start school again on monday. it still remains that he has tantrums and they have to be brought under control. i would really like to have some things of mine in the house that are not exposed to abuse. eg: computer, vase (none out so far for the fear of breaking them), flowers etc.

boo, yes you are right, all have to be in agreement. the only problem would be when both of us are out and they are with the maids. maids sometimes just do not understand. tell them not to carry the kids when they cry or whatever and next couple of days, they are back to pampering them again. i will try to work with them into an agreement. just wish i had more time at home but work puts me off from home. and i dont want to hit them anymore. they too young.

any further suggestions would be appreciated to controlling the little devils.

[Nawtilus]

Does your son carry on this same way at school ?

Personaly, if my maids or nannies were not doing things the way I wanted them done in dealing with the kids, I would find new ones.

With my son, who is usually very well behaved, but when he does become naughty for whatever reason, I put him in a room upstairs, somewhere that he does not have all his toys and will get bored quickly. I tell him to stay up there until he has thought about what he has done and call me when he wants to come down and be good.

It always works. But may not work for everyone.

One time the little bugger made me so wild with something he did, I took him upstairs, told him to stay here and think about it. Before i even turned around and through teary eyes he looked up to me and beckoned me to sit down next to him and he was ready to tell me he did something wrong.

I mean how could I resist that, i sat down, he told me sobbing and I just had to let him come straight back down, only after we had a chat and he promised to never do again and say sorry for what he did.

[MikeWill]

I'm farang, my wife is Thai and we have a 4yo girl.

I also knew nothing about parenting. It's a learning curve that evolves as we go. But from the beginning we agreed on the "no hitting" policy - violence solves nothing. And till now, I never used a hand... my daughter understands my angry voice and look good enough. I can count on one hand the number of times she was punished.

"Don't spoil your kids in the first place."

Be persistent -

Quite often, the kids hear the word "NO" or "DON'T", yet deep inside they know that these words have no meaning to them, if they just try hard enough (crying, pushing, etc. whatever they know to do) to get what they want, you (a parent) give up.

It also means that you should be careful in restricting your child - don't use the word "NO" too often. But if you said "NO" let it be NO. For example, my daughter knows very well that when she has a running nose - no icecreams.

No confusion - no disorder resulting from a failure to behave predictably.

Many times intentionally I allow my daughter to lead me, especially at her school in front of other kids. She is the youngest in her class. Children know very well what is expected from them in terms of behavior.

At times she misbehaved just because of being too tired, bored or having not enough attention. As a parent you should know what's going on with your child.

[PeaceBlondie]

Pardon me for repeating about following through, consistently:

In disciplining children, there are no such things as threats. Just promises, and lies. It is not good to show your own child that you're a liar. Therefore, never 'threaten' anything you won't want to do.

[billd766]

I have been following this thread with interest.

We have a 2 years and 4 months old boy. My wife is 41 and I am 62 and he is her first child and my second (previuos marriage).

We both love him dearly and at the moments he is going through the "terrible twos". Having been a dad before I know roughly what to expect and what he will do but my wife doesn't.

My previous son from my first marriage (now 28) seems to have turned out OK and I only smacked him about 4 or 5 times seriously in 10 years.

With my second son I am using the same sort of guidelines and he responds to both of us, in Thai with his Mum and in Thai and baby English to me.

He is in the learning and exploring stage now and there is always somebody keeping an eye out for him but I try to let him make a few mistakes and learn from them. Last night he was switching my reading lamp on and off a lot and then he switched it off and touched the hot bulb. I dumped his fingers in my cold water drink but he cried for a little while then went back to playing.

I did consider letting him sleep at the bottom of the fish pond last night as he just wouldn't go to sleep until gone 11 at night, normally he is gone before 9 pm.

He is getting over a cold and a runny nose and the medicine helps him sleep during the day.

He started pre pre school last month to get him used to other children, learning how to hold a pencil and some English etc.

When we first took him he was crying before he got to school and happy about 10 minutes after daddy or mummy ahd gone. Now it is down to a quick cry when daddy says goodbye.

On the way home I can't keep him quiet.

He understands NO from each of us and so far touch wood he has not had a smack yet.

[Schooner]

I raised two. boy and girl. I made a choice to never hit them before they were born. My father was a violent man and I was resolved to never do or allow anyone else to do it to them. I had to tell my wife once to never hit them. When you hit a child you humileate them and teach them to use force to solve problems.

Of all the things that I've accomplished in my life I am most proud of keeping that commitment. My kids drove me nuts at times, but that is what you sign up for when you have them. If you commit to never hit than you are forced to find alternitives. What worked for me was time out. we had a kitchen timer with a bell and they had to sit in a chair until the bell went off. You must always be consistant and there has to be consequences for bad behavior, but all that can be managed.

They tell me now that they respect the fact that I never hit them and they are happy well adjusted young people who manage there lives well. I am glad I don't have to live with the guilt of repaeting my fathers mistakes (at least that one)

[peter991]

Source

Campaign warns against smacking kids

A $2.5 million tax-payer funded campaign will warn parents not to smack their children.

The guidelines will be released by a child welfare agency supported by the federal government and will be available in 16 languages.

The Australian Childhood Foundation's website advises parents that smacking children teaches them that violence is acceptable later in life.

The website says: "Physical punishment causes pain to stop the behaviour. For example hitting a child with a hand or object," News Limited reports.

It says physical punishment can have an adverse impact on children's emotional development and "teaches children that violence can be an acceptable way to solve problems".

"Physical punishment can undermine a child's sense of love and security," the guidelines say.

"They can often become anxious, fearful or rebellious."

Chief Executive of the Australian Childhood Foundation Dr Joe Tucci said parents should not have to hurt children to teach them a lesson.

"We need to think about whether this is the sort of tool we want to continue to use - just because their parents used it, does that mean we have to? I think the answer is no."

Associate Professor Margaret Sims from Edith Cowan University said the guidelines were a starting point for parents who needed to be re-educated about how to discipline their children.

Peter

[MsFigure]

It all depends on peoples definition of what smacking/hitting is.

There is a difference between 1: Giving a smack across the bum or hand to discipline children that are being disobedient, and 2: Repeatedly hitting a child across the head and upper body/legs, or hitting so hard that they will bruise or bleed (or worse ), which IMO is classed as abuse.

I see nothing wrong with giving a firm smack to discipline and instill certain things in children. My daughter may only be 3 but she knows what a "smack" is. All I need to do is warn her once, and it will stop whatever she is doing that would warrant her to be disciplined. After the first and final warning (or if I have to count to 3) and she keeps on repeating what I've asked her not to do, she will get a very firm smack on her butt or hand (depending on her actions) and a NO to reinforce what is not acceptable and what I've told her to stop doing.

Fortunately for us, she is actually an angel and listens to what we say so I can count the number of smacks she's received on one hand, but if she were to something really bad I wouldn't hesitate to give her a smack to reinforce and teach her : 1. that she MUST listen and do what is told/asked of her and 2. to further instill in her that a certain action (that is dangerous and could be life-threatening or cause injury) is DEFINITELY not to be done or done again.

Just my 2 cents

[chanchao]

Good to see this topic being dug up, I was planning to start something similar..

When I was a kid I did get the occasional slap on the bum. But after that things returned to the normal harmonious situation real soon. My best friend's parents however were against any hitting based on non-violent principles. They did however send their kid to his room and kept him there for hours on end for punishment.

I think I preferred the slap & explanation.

It says physical punishment can have an adverse impact on children's emotional development and "teaches children that violence can be an acceptable way to solve problems".

Good, gets them prepared for the real world early.

(And this coming from the Australian government that's participating in the most extreme form of violence in Iraq.)

[November Rain]

It all depends on peoples definition of what smacking/hitting is.

There is a difference between 1: Giving a smack across the bum or hand to discipline children that are being disobedient, and 2: Repeatedly hitting a child across the head and upper body/legs, or hitting so hard that they will bruise or bleed (or worse ), which IMO is classed as abuse.

I see nothing wrong with giving a firm smack to discipline and instill certain things in children. My daughter may only be 3 but she knows what a "smack" is. All I need to do is warn her once, and it will stop whatever she is doing that would warrant her to be disciplined. After the first and final warning (or if I have to count to 3) and she keeps on repeating what I've asked her not to do, she will get a very firm smack on her butt or hand (depending on her actions) and a NO to reinforce what is not acceptable and what I've told her to stop doing.

Fortunately for us, she is actually an angel and listens to what we say so I can count the number of smacks she's received on one hand, but if she were to something really bad I wouldn't hesitate to give her a smack to reinforce and teach her : 1. that she MUST listen and do what is told/asked of her and 2. to further instill in her that a certain action (that is dangerous and could be life-threatening or cause injury) is DEFINITELY not to be done or done again.

Just my 2 cents

I never thought I'd say this, but in this case, I agree with you 100%. This is exactly the way I am with my son & , like your daughter, he's an extremely well behaved little boy and listens to me, so smacks are virtually never given.

[GuestHouse]

The arguments against smacking children are made without examining the alternatives and importantly the wide gap between the theory of the alternatives and how they are actually applied.

I'm sure I am not alone in having observed parents who would never smack their children as a means of discipline applying varying levels of emotional blackmail and emotional violence on children.

Now of course the argument can be made that this is as equally undesirable as smacking.

But the point is, what ever way we decide to raise children, there will be those who do so with thought and care, and those who do not (With all the shades between brought about by circumstance, exhaustion, frustration, external pressures on families etc).

It is clear, there are good parents who use smacking as part of their child's discipline, just as there are good parents who do not use smacking.

And there are parents who emotionally damage their children with psychological pressures in stead of smacking, just as their are parents who brutalize their children with physical abuse.

Balanced and considered discipline within the framework of caring parenting, is the ideal we most of us aim at.

People on crusades to enforce their theories of parenting onto other people's families has nothing to do with parenting and everything to do with 'Do Good Busy Bodying'.

Oh, and do look up the “Simpsons” episode, the one with the Child Welfare Officers dragging the Simpson children off to a Christian Foster Home ... Before you knock the Simpsons as an intellectual argument, watch it, you’ll find it goes right to the heart of the problem.

Let us keep our liberty in raising OUR children.

[naomisri]

Some practical tips that have worked well for us so far. Our little girl (I'm British, my husband Thai) is quite the independant little lady, but there are definitely things that work as far as tantrums go.

1. Be consistent, let the kid know the rules and NEVER give in. If you do it cancels out all of the hard work you did saying "no" for the first 20 minutes.

2. Pick your battles, don't feel like life has to be "when I say no, I mean no", kids who are tired or hungry aren't thinking logically and they will pick up anything to fight about. Distraction works wonders, ask them to find something or count how many XYZs they can see.

3. Always give positive directions, don't say "don't touch that" as more often than not the kid is going to hear "touch that", or try to test you on it. Say things like, "come over here" or get XYZ for Mummy/Daddy"

If going out to the shops -

4. Involve them - ask them to put stuff in the basket or trolly/shopping cart, see if they can find something that you need that you can see, but they haven't spotted yet, preferably not things that will break (eggs) or bruise (apples)

5. Always keep a little snack handy, be it a cookie, a banana or whatever, the less messy the better. This one helps wherever you go.

6. Don't promise them a snack from inside the shop for being good - otherwise the whole trip is going to be about getting to the snack - it won't go well You could promise them a treat that involves both of you like watching a DVD together or whatever.

7. Set some firm ground rules about what is and isn't okay.

8. Try to remember the kid isn't trying to p*** you off, they're totally selfish at that age and put yourself in their position, if we could get away with someone buying us nice things if we just had to stamp our feet, wouldn't we? Talk to the kid and try to explain why they can't have what they want. Try not to call a kid "good" as if you do that there will always be a "bad" as the other side of the coin.

I'm still not sure about smacking, although my daughter has smacked me a few times after I've told her not to and I've smacked her (gently) back to get her to understand that it hurts and she wouldn't want it done to her. Not sure what we'll do when she gets older, or if she gets more difficult to deal with. We try to bring out the cooperative helpful side of her that I believe all kids are born with if you can just tap into it.

Take it or leave it, just things that are working for us, I know everyone's parenting style is going to be different!

/Edited for spelling/

Edited April 10, 2007 by naomisri

[torngseea]

My two boys (6 and 8) get told they are going to get a spank. They go and get the wooden spoon. They are asked if they want it on the hand or the leg. They are told why it is happening (of course they already know). The spank is administered purposefully without anger. They put the wooden spoon back. They cry for two minutes or so and then seek restoration. They know they are loved and are told once more that they are loved. The end.

It is called DISCIPLINE and if it is done properly there is no substitute.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm skeptical of the no-spanking movement; partly because I'm another child who was raised (until the age of 6-7, after which I never needed it again) with some infrequent, mild, measured corporal punishment- both from parents and teachers- and I don't have any resentment over it at all. The only time I can remember being angry about it afterwards was once when it was applied (so I felt at the time) unfairly by one teacher, and she was my favourite so I quickly forgave her for the mistake- never complained about it to my parents, who were actually very close friends with her.

I also think that children are variable enough that it is possible that for a few, mild corporal punishment may be the only thing they respond to, in certain situations. You can't always reason with the under-six kids, after all. And if you outlaw it, then you will be taking away one potentially legitimate tool and not replacing it with anything- it could lead to big problems for a few kids as they grow older if they don't fix some basic rules and morals internally when they are young in some way or another.

My mom tells me (I can't remember it) that I used to bite one of my younger siblings when we were toddlers (like me 3, him 2)- nothing stopped me from doing it, even when she smacked me. So finally she bit me (she says she really, really didn't want to do something like that, but she couldn't think of any other way)- and the lesson stuck.

One of my role models in teaching told me that when he was younger there was a "wrong 'un" in the school- a high school, I think- who was physically terrorising the other students and even some of the teachers (he'd failed grades and was bigger than a lot of the smaller woman teachers). None of the official disciplinary techniques worked, and the family was an unhelpful disaster. So he finally took the kid into a room and more-or-less worked him over with a belt- perhaps it didn't resolve whatever fundamental problems the kid had, but as long as that friend of mine was working at the school no one had a problem with the kid again.

Again, I'm not saying that corporal punishment is the best way, or the first way, or the only way, or a good way. I'm just saying that in a small set of circumstances with a small number of students it might be the only way that works. If you take away corporal punishment under all circumstances, your only alternative for some children will eventually be institutionalisation.

Corporal punishment in schools *is* illegal in Thailand, right now. It is still widely used by Thai teachers (and never so far as I know by foreign teachers). At the first school I worked at in Thailand, I saw corporal punishment being widely applied- when I asked, I was told it was illegal but that a large group of parents at a PTA meeting had unanimously requested that the teachers continue to use switches on their kids to keep them from going wild. Obviously, Thai families approach this issue from a different point of view.

"Steven"

P.S. As a side note, some sort of Indian government survey has just claimed that over 2/3 of Indian children are "physically abused." The claim seems outrageous, and I wonder if it is a matter of outside definition of "abuse." Granted, there are a lot of social problems there and just as in every Asian country family skeletons stay in the closet- but 2/3?!?

[MikeWill]

I just like this topic - the further it goes, the better it develops.

And yes, I applaud to the arguments of GuestHouse above.

[kayo]

interesting to see this dug back up. O.P (Peaceblondie?) any further input, nearly a year on?

I remember writing a big piece here, sitting in a internet shop in guatemala. posting, or as it appears, I must have, for some reason, made the rare decision to not post it.

How's progress?

Edited April 10, 2007 by kayo

[MsFigure]

My mom tells me (I can't remember it) that I used to bite one of my younger siblings when we were toddlers (like me 3, him 2)- nothing stopped me from doing it, even when she smacked me. So finally she bit me (she says she really, really didn't want to do something like that, but she couldn't think of any other way)- and the lesson stuck.

LOL - that also works on dogs when trying to teach them that biting is unacceptable .

That method of discipline also works with pinching too. A child is more unlikely to do it (bite or pinch) again once they know what it feels like and that it hurts.

[MsFigure]

double post

Edited April 11, 2007 by MsFigure

[PeaceBlondie]

kayo, I was not the original poster, but I remember going to internet shops in Guatemala and writing lots of drivel, too. I was one of the original posters in this thread who suggested non-violent parenting. I still think a very small child needs a single smack - that's only one smack, as the source in post #45 indicates - for a preschool child. Striking a child who is above the age of reason, however, does tend to teach the child that the dominant power structure of his culture believes in hurting people who disobey, and that's not how most businesses and employment work. By then, the older child should be taught that violence is evil. Sinful. Immoral. I'll bet Buddha taught about that as much as Christ did.

Okay, now I'll climb down off my soapbox and agree with Ijustwannateach that there are some students who arrive in the classroom so twisted, that violence is the only language they understand. The trouble is, some such students make it all the way through Yale and Harvard, still thinking that violence is the only solution!

[Daewoo]

(And this coming from the Australian government that's participating in the most extreme form of violence in Iraq.)

And then the Australian Family Association commented that this was a bad policy, because it would make parents who are doing a perfectly fine job of bringing up their child think that they are failing.

For me, the important thing isn't whether or not you smack the child, but whether they know what they did wrong, that you were fair, and that they are sorry for diong the wrong thing, not for being disciplined.

Cheers,

Daewoo

Song kon luukchai 2 1/2 years and 6 months... narak mak...

[Gary A]

I'm a firm believer in spare the rod spoil the child. You CANNOT reason with a three year old. All they really understand is pain. I was always careful not to hit my kids with my hand. You CAN hurt them that way. I always had a big wide leather belt that worked well. I never had to use it much because just the mention of the belt did the trick. My son raises his children as he was raised and his children are a pleasure to be around. All it takes is a hard look from him to straighten his kids out. My daughter is just the opposite. She listened to all the "experts". She wouldn't even think of hitting her kids and they are holy terrors. I hate to be around my own grandchildren. I tell her that they need a good whipping and all I get is a dirty look.