Twin evils are battling to bring down Thailand

[Thai at Heart]

It absolutely amazes me that there are actually people who actually advocate taking the right to choose their government away from the people. Somehow they seem to believe that the "selectors" and "selected" will somehow offer greater protection from corruption. This despite history's numerous examples of the dangers of putting power in the hands of small numbers of people.

Sadly it would seem the "peaceful protesters" are showing their true colors as the seek to use violence and intimidation in an attempt to bring down an elected government and impose the will of a minority.

Sometimes people don't want to think too mut. Truth is, what is wrong with a semi appointed senate.

They work a little like non executive directors of a company.

[hawker9000]

It absolutely amazes me that there are actually people who actually advocate taking the right to choose their government away from the people. Somehow they seem to believe that the "selectors" and "selected" will somehow offer greater protection from corruption. This despite history's numerous examples of the dangers of putting power in the hands of small numbers of people.

Sadly it would seem the "peaceful protesters" are showing their true colors as the seek to use violence and intimidation in an attempt to bring down an elected government and impose the will of a minority.

And actually what actual current evidence do you actually have that the actual protesters actually represent a minority? Actually, that is.

Counting actual votes in an actual election is acknowledged worldwide as expressing the wishes of the actual majority. Therefore, those who oppose the government elected by an actual majority would constitute an actual minority. Actually :-)

Actual CURRENT evidence, I said. Which word confuses you, "actual" or "current"?

[Psychic]

It absolutely amazes me that there are actually people who actually advocate taking the right to choose their government away from the people. Somehow they seem to believe that the "selectors" and "selected" will somehow offer greater protection from corruption. This despite history's numerous examples of the dangers of putting power in the hands of small numbers of people.

Sadly it would seem the "peaceful protesters" are showing their true colors as the seek to use violence and intimidation in an attempt to bring down an elected government and impose the will of a minority.

And actually what actual current evidence do you actually have that the actual protesters actually represent a minority? Actually, that is.

Counting actual votes in an actual election is acknowledged worldwide as expressing the wishes of the actual majority. Therefore, those who oppose the government elected by an actual majority would constitute an actual minority. Actually :-)

Actual CURRENT evidence, I said. Which word confuses you, "actual" or "current"?

Let me re-phrase it for you. What actual evidence do you have that the majority of the people do not support their freely elected government?

[plachon]

"BANGKOK: -- The terms "corruption", "tyranny of the majority" and "parliamentary dictatorship" are being heard with increasing frequency. But unlike elsewhere, the so-called tyranny of the majority in Thailand is not being used to persecute ethnic, racial or religious minorities. Instead it supports corrupt politicians."

Above quote is the first paragraph of the article. I am quite surprised by that second sentence, pretending those triple (not twin) evils are only used to support corrupt politicians. Does the author really imagine there is not persecution of ethnic, racial or religious minorities in Thailand, or is he just being selectively myopic to the reality around him and reported almost daily in the Thai and occasionally, international media?

Try telling, for instance, there is no corruption to the ethnic minorities who come to work in Thailand from neighbouring countries, but are shaken down for bribes and favours (often sexual in the case of women) by police and other officials almost from the moment they step foot in Thailand. The Burmese probably get the worst of it, but only the other day I saw Vietnamese entering Thailand being relieved of a 100 B each by immigration as an unofficial tax to enter the realm.

Try telling that to the southern Thai muslims or northern Thai ethnic minorities who are generally taken advantage of, abused, denied their rights and often extorted of sums of cash by corrupt officials on a regular basis, often because they just happen to look different from the majority. Anyone can see this by taking a bus in a northern or southern border area and watching the police or military at checkpoints pick certain people off the bus, just for looking different and not fitting their stereotypes of what a Thai citizen should look like.

Try telling that to the kosher black tourist or south Asian, perhaps from Europe or North America, who is racially discriminated against not just by state officials, but by ordinary members of the public in myriad ways, purely on the basis of the colour of their skin. Racial discrimination is rampant in Thailand and reaches right across society, leading to a culture of impunity for those that commit more serious racial abuse.

And don't even start me on the treatment meted out to Rohingya refugees (and other minorities in the past) seeking asylum in Thailand who suffer a mixture of ethnic, racial and religious persecution......

So to pretend that corruption is only in the political realm is naive at best, but probably disingenuous. Thailand has a long way to go in the realm of self-perception, in its often genuine concerns about how it is portrayed internationally.

[Thai at Heart]

"Anand warned that if the culture of corruption is allowed to continue unchecked, the country could be heading for disaster."

This is exactly why 50% of the govt must be "SELECTED" and 50% elected.

cheque = bank balance.

This half-elected / half-appointed Seant is only a feable force to outbalance a lower house which is majorized by a party. It has an "undemocratic" weakness: who appoints the Senators (and who appoints the appointers etc.) and what are the criteria.

I would suggest to abandon the centralized political and administrative system in Thailand and give the regions and provinces more autonomy.

Each Senator would then be elected in his province and would then represent the interests of his province. If he becomes a "brown nose" to the party ruling the lower house, his constituency will (hopefully) not reelect him.

A positive side-effect would be a calming down of the situation in the South.

Now there is the crux. I don't know why on earth they don't just follow the House of Lords model from the UK.

[hawker9000]

It absolutely amazes me that there are actually people who actually advocate taking the right to choose their government away from the people. Somehow they seem to believe that the "selectors" and "selected" will somehow offer greater protection from corruption. This despite history's numerous examples of the dangers of putting power in the hands of small numbers of people.

Sadly it would seem the "peaceful protesters" are showing their true colors as the seek to use violence and intimidation in an attempt to bring down an elected government and impose the will of a minority.

And actually what actual current evidence do you actually have that the actual protesters actually represent a minority? Actually, that is.

Counting actual votes in an actual election is acknowledged worldwide as expressing the wishes of the actual majority. Therefore, those who oppose the government elected by an actual majority would constitute an actual minority. Actually :-)

Actual CURRENT evidence, I said. Which word confuses you, "actual" or "current"?

Let me re-phrase it for you. What actual evidence do you have that the majority of the people do not support their freely elected government?

Well, gee, let's see. Maybe a few thousand Thais out in the streets protesting in Bangkok and other cities... I admit, that's only "evidence", not "proof". But it IS certainly more current than an election held years ago. We can't know whether those protesters actually represent the majority of thais or not without another election. Can we? By the way, PTP received, back then, 48% of the vote. So as long as you're re-phrasing things...

[wedders]

Now there is the crux.  I don't know why on earth they don't just follow the House of Lords model from the UK.

Oh great. Appointees from the paedophile & talking snakes society, plus half-wit hereditary peers. Any more bright ideas?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wedders]

It absolutely amazes me that there are actually people who actually advocate taking the right to choose their government away from the people. Somehow they seem to believe that the "selectors" and "selected" will somehow offer greater protection from corruption. This despite history's numerous examples of the dangers of putting power in the hands of small numbers of people.

Sadly it would seem the "peaceful protesters" are showing their true colors as the seek to use violence and intimidation in an attempt to bring down an elected government and impose the will of a minority.

And actually what actual current evidence do you actually have that the actual protesters actually represent a minority? Actually, that is.

Counting actual votes in an actual election is acknowledged worldwide as expressing the wishes of the actual majority. Therefore, those who oppose the government elected by an actual majority would constitute an actual minority. Actually :-)

Actual CURRENT evidence, I said. Which word confuses you, "actual" or "current"?

Let me re-phrase it for you. What actual evidence do you have that the majority of the people do not support their freely elected government?

Well, gee, let's see. Maybe a few thousand Thais out in the streets protesting in Bangkok and other cities... I admit, that's only "evidence", not "proof". But it IS certainly more current than an election held years ago. We can't know whether those protesters actually represent the majority of thais or not without another election. Can we? By the way, PTP received, back then, 48% of the vote. So as long as you're re-phrasing things...

Well that's fine then. If they genuinely represent such a sizeable proportion of the population, all they have to do is wait for the next election and get their supporters to kick the government out at the ballot box, no?

Simple.

[hawker9000]

In Thailand (and other countries), it's not necessarily a given that the current government finish out its " term". That's the US model, but certainly not the case everywhere else. These protesters, due largely to the amnesty bill debacle, which can apparently come roaring back to life in about 145 more days, want this government dissolved as the only way to prevent that and PTP's over-reaching generally, not to mention its ties to a convicted felon currently operating outside the country. They claim the current government has forfeited its legitimacy, reason enough for it to be dissolved and new elections called. 'Nothing sacrosanct here about a government finishing out its term.

Edited December 6, 2013 by hawker9000

[Psychic]

In Thailand (and other countries), it's not necessarily a given that the current government finish out its " term". That's the US model, but certainly not the case everywhere else. These protesters, due largely to the amnesty bill debacle, which can apparently come roaring back to life in about 145 more days, want this government dissolved as the only way to prevent that and PTP's over-reaching generally, not to mention its ties to a convicted felon currently operating outside the country. They claim the current government has forfeited its legitimacy, reason enough for it to be dissolved and new elections called. 'Nothing sacrosanct here about a government finishing out its term.

In Thailand (and other countries), it's not necessarily a given that the current government finish out its " term". That's the US model, but certainly not the case everywhere else. These protesters, due largely to the amnesty bill debacle, which can apparently come roaring back to life in about 145 more days, want this government dissolved as the only way to prevent that and PTP's over-reaching generally, not to mention its ties to a convicted felon currently operating outside the country. They claim the current government has forfeited its legitimacy, reason enough for it to be dissolved and new elections called. 'Nothing sacrosanct here about a government finishing out its term.

OK, this is probably naive of me but let's suppose the government dissolves parliament and calls new elections. The result of this is that the same government gets elected. Again I naively would assume this would show that their actions and policies were sanctioned by the electoral majority. Is this enough or do the protesters come back and try to bring down the government again?

I'm just asking because I can only remember one elected majority that survived a full term. That clearly wasn't acceptable.

I abhor corrupt politicians living off their public positions. Trust me it is prevalent everywhere. Witness the amount of ex-cabinet ministers in western countries who aren't stupid enough to take payoffs in office but sit on multiple boards after their political careers. But you simply cannot continue to bring down the government everytime your gang of crooks loses to their gang of crooks. My sincere hope is that there can be some dialog that brings about a constitution that provides transparency and accountability. This is probably an impossibility since it seems most of the parties have no interest in having their powers checked.

But perhaps if the stability of having elected governments serve full terms and then be judged at the next election can become the norm the country can slowly move towards a model that encourages accountability.

[wolf5370]

In Thailand (and other countries), it's not necessarily a given that the current government finish out its " term". That's the US model, but certainly not the case everywhere else. These protesters, due largely to the amnesty bill debacle, which can apparently come roaring back to life in about 145 more days, want this government dissolved as the only way to prevent that and PTP's over-reaching generally, not to mention its ties to a convicted felon currently operating outside the country. They claim the current government has forfeited its legitimacy, reason enough for it to be dissolved and new elections called. 'Nothing sacrosanct here about a government finishing out its term.

In Thailand (and other countries), it's not necessarily a given that the current government finish out its " term". That's the US model, but certainly not the case everywhere else. These protesters, due largely to the amnesty bill debacle, which can apparently come roaring back to life in about 145 more days, want this government dissolved as the only way to prevent that and PTP's over-reaching generally, not to mention its ties to a convicted felon currently operating outside the country. They claim the current government has forfeited its legitimacy, reason enough for it to be dissolved and new elections called. 'Nothing sacrosanct here about a government finishing out its term.

OK, this is probably naive of me but let's suppose the government dissolves parliament and calls new elections. The result of this is that the same government gets elected. Again I naively would assume this would show that their actions and policies were sanctioned by the electoral majority. Is this enough or do the protesters come back and try to bring down the government again?

I'm just asking because I can only remember one elected majority that survived a full term. That clearly wasn't acceptable.

I abhor corrupt politicians living off their public positions. Trust me it is prevalent everywhere. Witness the amount of ex-cabinet ministers in western countries who aren't stupid enough to take payoffs in office but sit on multiple boards after their political careers. But you simply cannot continue to bring down the government everytime your gang of crooks loses to their gang of crooks. My sincere hope is that there can be some dialog that brings about a constitution that provides transparency and accountability. This is probably an impossibility since it seems most of the parties have no interest in having their powers checked.

But perhaps if the stability of having elected governments serve full terms and then be judged at the next election can become the norm the country can slowly move towards a model that encourages accountability.

If, as you say the government did call an election, and did get voted straight back, then this would (all things being fair of course) show they had the support of the people. If the government really thought that was true however, there would have been a statement of an election in the new year - there has not been one. Full terms are not guaranteed, and in some countries they are not particularly common (governments tend to call early when they know/believe their support is strongest - or when heading for a storm they would be better tarnishing the opposition with next time around). In such countries, the UK for example, it is not a leadership race, but a political party race - here it seems to be stuck between the two.

I think two things the government could do that may kill off the demonstrations (maybe not for Suthep - but possibly for most of his support): 1. Announce early elections next year and an emergency bill to amend the constitution to disallow state or legislative en block amnesties (thereby making any recurrence of the amnesty bill illegal and thus void - HM still retains power to commute) ; 2. PTP has a leadership shake up, removes YL, ministers that have appeared on the Red stage (Interior/Education), Surapong, and other contentious heads - and puts out a statement that they are sorry, but give them time to fix things - and of course killing the amnesty bill as in 1.

[hawker9000]

In Thailand (and other countries), it's not necessarily a given that the current government finish out its " term". That's the US model, but certainly not the case everywhere else. These protesters, due largely to the amnesty bill debacle, which can apparently come roaring back to life in about 145 more days, want this government dissolved as the only way to prevent that and PTP's over-reaching generally, not to mention its ties to a convicted felon currently operating outside the country. They claim the current government has forfeited its legitimacy, reason enough for it to be dissolved and new elections called. 'Nothing sacrosanct here about a government finishing out its term.

In Thailand (and other countries), it's not necessarily a given that the current government finish out its " term". That's the US model, but certainly not the case everywhere else. These protesters, due largely to the amnesty bill debacle, which can apparently come roaring back to life in about 145 more days, want this government dissolved as the only way to prevent that and PTP's over-reaching generally, not to mention its ties to a convicted felon currently operating outside the country. They claim the current government has forfeited its legitimacy, reason enough for it to be dissolved and new elections called. 'Nothing sacrosanct here about a government finishing out its term.

OK, this is probably naive of me but let's suppose the government dissolves parliament and calls new elections. The result of this is that the same government gets elected. Again I naively would assume this would show that their actions and policies were sanctioned by the electoral majority. Is this enough or do the protesters come back and try to bring down the government again?

I'm just asking because I can only remember one elected majority that survived a full term. That clearly wasn't acceptable.

I abhor corrupt politicians living off their public positions. Trust me it is prevalent everywhere. Witness the amount of ex-cabinet ministers in western countries who aren't stupid enough to take payoffs in office but sit on multiple boards after their political careers. But you simply cannot continue to bring down the government everytime your gang of crooks loses to their gang of crooks. My sincere hope is that there can be some dialog that brings about a constitution that provides transparency and accountability. This is probably an impossibility since it seems most of the parties have no interest in having their powers checked.

But perhaps if the stability of having elected governments serve full terms and then be judged at the next election can become the norm the country can slowly move towards a model that encourages accountability.

Yes. Naive.

[Robby nz]

One of the things Suthep has been demanding is that a constitution drafting assembly be set up to review the constitution to strengthen the checks and balances.

He has been saying that after the rewrite had been reviewed and found to do what was intended then it would be taken to the people in a referendum.

Contrast that with PT who have been trying to weaken the checks and balances by their constitution changes, section 109, and such things as cutting the budgets of the Anti corruption commission and others, by refusing to accept the constitution courts decisions, by intimidating judges and putting their own people in top positions.

Changing the senate to all elected is not the main bone of contention as the Dems have agreed to it.

What is the problem is the changes that would allow family and friends of sitting MP's to be senators and allowing an unlimited term (for life) rather than the present 6 years.

[fab4]

I love the bland, unsupported assertions like "corruption has got steadily worse since Thaksin...".

It was bad before, it was bad during, it carried on as if nothing had changed during the Dems' period at the helm, it's bad now, and it will be bad for the foreseeable future. Until the voters understand that a deep-rooted culture of nepotism and corruption is at fault - practised by pretty much anyone in a position of power - and not by a few headline-grabbing individuals, nothing will ever change. People are just so naive, and easily manipulated. And not just the Thais, going by the polemics on this forum.

Hmmm... PTP apologists on the defensive?

Or a fairly unbiased view on things, what do you think? Oh, that much I think we now know ...........

[fab4]

Many people in Thailand ARE sick of corruption. Hence the protest.

Oh, I thought it was to demonstrate against the Amnesty Bill, and then I thought it was against the Selection/Election of Senators Bill, and then there was the movement to eradicate the Shinawatra Regime, and then there was the Rubber Farmers protesting, I thought the students were there protesting that they should have their own NRA, I knew the Dhamma Armies were marching for well, because they can, then I thought that Sutheps was definitely there to form his own little Nirvana with a fairy tale Peoples Council to run a country with "good" people

and NOW you tell me it's all about

Corruption?

Edited December 6, 2013 by fab4

[MobileContent]

Because the Old Etonian Oxford graduate from a hi-so family hasn't murdered 3000 of his own citizens in a drug war, made BILLIONS for his family thru corruption, escalated the insurgencie in the south, come up with populist policies that have failed and cost the taxpayers BILLIONS among others. As dumb as voters in any other country are, I really don't think they're as dumb as the ones who actually love this idiot and his cronies. Not to mention the fact that that person is even more 'hi-so' then the Oxford graduate coming from one of the richest families in Chiang Mai. Yeah he's one of them and they identify with him.

You want to talk about dumb? Dumb is people voting for the same idiots everytime when they've proven themselves corrupt and incompentant. Gotta love the downtrodden masses.

Better the devil you know maybe from their point of view, when the alternative is an Old Etonian Oxford graduate from a hi-so family, using his own brand of populist policies to try to make the Dems more attractive to the urban and rural poor that make up the majority of voters.

In that respect the Thais are no more dumb than the voters in any other country.

Not really 3000 were murdered. In Isaan and the North houses were marked with either white (clean), red (dealers), black (addicts). Whoever had a red spot had 15 days time to stop the trade..

The list was provided to the police as the poh yai's in the mooban knew who were the hardcore pushers. Often Poh Yai's would visit those homes and warn those drug pushers to stop the trade. Of course many of those pushers paid of the local police but the teams were send from Bangkok. They didn't stopped so they were popped off.

In our village a family was popped off. First the hubby, then the wife took over the trade (she was popped off too) and on the end her son that was shot off as well. In our village they held a party after that. This is Thailand and live is cheap.

In our village we have no more dealers but still a couple of addicts that just recently snatched a gold necklace from some villagers after she returned from Wat. This guy was beaten up like hell before he was handed over to the police. He is doing now 4 years at Sawang Daen Din and the Yaba jail were 90% of inmates sit for narcotics including some big pushers.

During the Abhisit years the Yaba started flourishing again because they knew Abhisit is a softy. In March 2010 two people were popped off in Wang Sam Mo by a black dressed group. It was well known this family supplied narcotics to Malaysia. Any way it wasn't under the Thaksin regime but Abhisit. Great they were popped off. What an arrogant family that showed they can buy every month a new pickup or another tractor.

Live is cheap for a farang in Thailand. If you go to a local bar you can killed for picking a fight with a local so Yaba pushers and agents shouldn't be surprised if they get popped off even for selling 100 pills.

Our village is clean now. We do have some addicts but we all keep a close eye on them to make our village more save.

[fab4]

One of the things Suthep has been demanding is that a constitution drafting assembly be set up to review the constitution to strengthen the checks and balances.

He has been saying that after the rewrite had been reviewed and found to do what was intended then it would be taken to the people in a referendum.

Contrast that with PT who have been trying to weaken the checks and balances by their constitution changes, section 109, and such things as cutting the budgets of the Anti corruption commission and others, by refusing to accept the constitution courts decisions, by intimidating judges and putting their own people in top positions.

Changing the senate to all elected is not the main bone of contention as the Dems have agreed to it.

What is the problem is the changes that would allow family and friends of sitting MP's to be senators and allowing an unlimited term (for life) rather than the present 6 years.

And contrast that to the reality where the PTP wanted to set up a CDA to provide a new constitution written by a representative from each of Thailands provinces and about 12 "experts" (no politicians involved).

The Opposition complained. Then the Constitution Court decided upon a new ruling that there had to be referendum before the CDA was formed and constitution re-written (did the Coup Leaders have a referendum before they re wrote it? The answers No, by the way) OR the government could amend the constitution by voting in parliament.

The Opposition complained. Despite the government following the Constitution Court decision to the T , the Opposition complained, the Constitution Court got involved and voted that an amendment to the way Senators were selected was unconstitutional even though it was unconstitutional of them to do so.

They even went so far as to uphold a complaint from the Opposition that the PTP had invoked Article 68 (that the PTP were overthrowing the State System with King as Head of State) without doing anything about it, let alone at the very least dissolving the party! Suprisingly, the Opposition didn't complain about this.

I didn't agree with the amnesty act travesty but that's in the past - we're talking about the CC putting themselves in a position were they can shoot down any Bill the PTP may try and amend or pass in the future. That is why they are disputing the CC 's take on all this.

Yet the PTP are the bad guys?

[wedders]

Because the Old Etonian Oxford graduate from a hi-so family hasn't murdered 3000 of his own citizens in a drug war, made BILLIONS for his family thru corruption, escalated the insurgencie in the south, come up with populist policies that have failed and cost the taxpayers BILLIONS among others. As dumb as voters in any other country are, I really don't think they're as dumb as the ones who actually love this idiot and his cronies. Not to mention the fact that that person is even more 'hi-so' then the Oxford graduate coming from one of the richest families in Chiang Mai. Yeah he's one of them and they identify with him.

 

 

You want to talk about dumb? Dumb is people voting for the same idiots everytime when they've proven themselves corrupt and incompentant. Gotta love the downtrodden masses.

Better the devil you know maybe from their point of view, when the alternative is an Old Etonian Oxford graduate from a hi-so family, using his own brand of populist policies to try to make the Dems more attractive to the urban and rural poor that make up the majority of voters.

In that respect the Thais are no more dumb than the voters in any other country.

 

 

 

Not really 3000 were murdered. In Isaan and the North houses were marked with either white (clean), red (dealers), black (addicts). Whoever had a red spot had 15 days time to stop the trade..

 

The list was provided to the police as the poh yai's in the mooban knew who were the hardcore pushers. Often Poh Yai's would visit those homes and warn those drug pushers to stop the trade. Of course many of those pushers paid of the local police but the teams were send from Bangkok. They didn't stopped so they were popped off.

 

In our village a family was popped off. First the hubby, then the wife took over the trade (she was popped off too) and on the end her son that was shot off as well. In our village they held a party after that. This is Thailand and live is cheap.

 

In our village we have no more dealers but still a couple of addicts that just recently snatched a gold necklace from some villagers after she returned from Wat. This guy was beaten up like hell before he was handed over to the police. He is doing now 4 years at Sawang Daen Din and the Yaba jail were 90% of inmates sit for narcotics including some big pushers.

 

During the Abhisit years the Yaba started flourishing again because they knew Abhisit is a softy. In March 2010 two people were popped off in Wang Sam Mo by a black dressed group. It was well known this family supplied narcotics to Malaysia. Any way it wasn't under the Thaksin regime but Abhisit. Great they were popped off. What an arrogant family that showed they can buy every month a new pickup or another tractor.

 

Live is cheap for a farang in Thailand. If you go to a local bar you can killed for picking a fight with a local so Yaba pushers and agents shouldn't be surprised if they get popped off even for selling 100 pills.

 

Our village is clean now. We do have some addicts but we all keep a close eye on them to make our village more save.

Nice in-depth explanation. I don't know how firm the punishment doled out to pushers is today, but a user I know - who got away with it for years - recently got caught.. and for a first offence got 3 months in prison. Stupidly re-offending on getting out, and caught in the act, the sentence this time was 2 years...

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[philw]

It absolutely amazes me that there are actually people who actually advocate taking the right to choose their government away from the people. Somehow they seem to believe that the "selectors" and "selected" will somehow offer greater protection from corruption. This despite history's numerous examples of the dangers of putting power in the hands of small numbers of people.

Sadly it would seem the "peaceful protesters" are showing their true colors as the seek to use violence and intimidation in an attempt to bring down an elected government and impose the will of a minority.

And actually what actual current evidence do you actually have that the actual protesters actually represent a minority? Actually, that is.

Er..........Can you tell us how many there are ??

What evidence do you have that they constitute a majority of anything, including the electorate ??

Do please enlighten us.

[timoclark]

The corruption, like the hypocrisy that follows this family, is on a far larger scale than anyone during the Dems' time in office ever attempted. Billions and now trillions of baht siphoned off, and all you can say is, same as it ever was. Not to this degree, no.

I love the bland, unsupported assertions like "corruption has got steadily worse since Thaksin...".
It was bad before, it was bad during, it carried on as if nothing had changed during the Dems' period at the helm, it's bad now, and it will be bad for the foreseeable future. Until the voters understand that a deep-rooted culture of nepotism and corruption is at fault - practised by pretty much anyone in a position of power - and not by a few headline-grabbing individuals, nothing will ever change. People are just so naive, and easily manipulated. And not just the Thais, going by the polemics on this forum.

[wedders]

The corruption, like the hypocrisy that follows this family, is on a far larger scale than anyone during the Dems' time in office ever attempted. Billions and now trillions of baht siphoned off, and all you can say is, same as it ever was. Not to this degree, no.

I love the bland, unsupported assertions like "corruption has got steadily worse since Thaksin...".

It was bad before, it was bad during, it carried on as if nothing had changed during the Dems' period at the helm, it's bad now, and it will be bad for the foreseeable future. Until the voters understand that a deep-rooted culture of nepotism and corruption is at fault - practised by pretty much anyone in a position of power - and not by a few headline-grabbing individuals, nothing will ever change. People are just so naive, and easily manipulated. And not just the Thais, going by the polemics on this forum.

 

Some convincing evidence, showing that you are in the know about the full extent of corruption right up to the current day, not just the headline stuff, would give your claims a bit of credibility. That includes all those who are getting away with it, not just those we read about.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[boomerangutang]

Anand warned that if the culture of corruption is allowed to continue unchecked, the country could be heading for disaster.

Why are sentences like that always put in conditional future tense? Corruption has been, is now, and will continue being a major motivator embedded in Thai politics. All Thai students grow up accepting (and practicing) it without 2nd thoughts. Who says the country is not already indisaster territory? Perhaps we should define the word 'disaster.'

One way to define it: A country governed by a self-exiled fugitive - who pushes debilitating policies upon the populace such as: awful rice pledging scam, and an even worse: The 2.2 trillion baht boondoggle to build infrastructure which will mainly benefit Chinese commerce.

[hawker9000]

It absolutely amazes me that there are actually people who actually advocate taking the right to choose their government away from the people. Somehow they seem to believe that the "selectors" and "selected" will somehow offer greater protection from corruption. This despite history's numerous examples of the dangers of putting power in the hands of small numbers of people.

Sadly it would seem the "peaceful protesters" are showing their true colors as the seek to use violence and intimidation in an attempt to bring down an elected government and impose the will of a minority.

And actually what actual current evidence do you actually have that the actual protesters actually represent a minority? Actually, that is.

Er..........Can you tell us how many there are ??

What evidence do you have that they constitute a majority of anything, including the electorate ??

Do please enlighten us.

Ok. Here's some wisdom just for you. Read. Comprehend. THEN post. I made no such claim. I merely questioned Psych's.

That help?

[Roadman]

The corruption, like the hypocrisy that follows this family, is on a far larger scale than anyone during the Dems' time in office ever attempted. Billions and now trillions of baht siphoned off, and all you can say is, same as it ever was. Not to this degree, no.

I love the bland, unsupported assertions like "corruption has got steadily worse since Thaksin...".

It was bad before, it was bad during, it carried on as if nothing had changed during the Dems' period at the helm, it's bad now, and it will be bad for the foreseeable future. Until the voters understand that a deep-rooted culture of nepotism and corruption is at fault - practised by pretty much anyone in a position of power - and not by a few headline-grabbing individuals, nothing will ever change. People are just so naive, and easily manipulated. And not just the Thais, going by the polemics on this forum.

Some convincing evidence, showing that you are in the know about the full extent of corruption right up to the current day, not just the headline stuff, would give your claims a bit of credibility. That includes all those who are getting away with it, not just those we read about.

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You did not choose to comment in the most obvious "Thailand slipping in Global Corruption stakes?"

Examples of the corruption outside of the monetary means is rife on this site when one looks at the bullshit that is going on in Parliament for example. Which example of the hundreds to you want...the changing of the amnesty bill content after it had been passed through the house, a convicted criminal in Dubai being giving a passport, members of Parliament and the police meeting with a convicted criminal, selective prosecution of people in opposition from DSIR, Attorney General etc., junior staff blowing the whistle on the rice scam and being threatened etc., jeez...and I have not even bothered to treat your ridiculous statement with any sense of intelligence that warrants the hundreds of examples that exist.

[wedders]

That's not evidence that shows a trend. That's cherry-picking to suit an agenda. I asked for references that revealed how the corruptiom and nepotism is clearly worse under PT or earlier equivalents, than before T was around, or under the military or Abhisit or any other fleeting manifestation of government Thailand has seen in recent times.

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[LomSak27]

The "tyranny" of a parliamentary majority is being used to defend a culture of corruption and political impunity

The People need, want, cry out for; Unelected Peoples Councils

Go Team Yellow

Fight Team Yellow

[waza]

Many people in Thailand ARE sick of corruption. Hence the protest.

Oh, I thought it was to demonstrate against the Amnesty Bill, and then I thought it was against the Selection/Election of Senators Bill, and then there was the movement to eradicate the Shinawatra Regime, and then there was the Rubber Farmers protesting, I thought the students were there protesting that they should have their own NRA, I knew the Dhamma Armies were marching for well, because they can, then I thought that Sutheps was definitely there to form his own little Nirvana with a fairy tale Peoples Council to run a country with "good" people

and NOW you tell me it's all about

Corruption?

Well done Fabby, these are excellent examples of the PTP's corrupt, unconstitutional and illegal actions, all worthy of public protest.

[boomerangutang]

That's not evidence that shows a trend. That's cherry-picking to suit an agenda. I asked for references that revealed how the corruptiom and nepotism is clearly worse under PT or earlier equivalents, than before T was around, or under the military or Abhisit or any other fleeting manifestation of government Thailand has seen in recent times.

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In the "You ain't seen nothin' yet, regarding nepotism" file cabinet, ...wait until Thaksin's son Oak is put in a power seat. That will bring in a whole new slew of flawed policies foisted upon the Thai sheeple. ...and there's the other (elder) sister, waiting in the wings.

[wedders]

Families in politics is nothing new - just look at the US ... Clinton, Bush, Kennedy etc. All I'm saying is that nepotism isn't present by definition simply because there are members of a single family in political circles. Sure Thaksin is different - but maybe we shouldn't be assuming others in the family are as guilty as him without real evidence.

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Edited December 7, 2013 by wedders

[hawker9000]

Families in politics is nothing new - just look at the US ... Clinton, Bush, Kennedy etc. All I'm saying is that nepotism isn't present by definition simply because there are members of a single family in political circles. Sure Thaksin is different - but maybe we shouldn't be assuming others in the family are as guilty as him without real evidence.Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Excellent attempt to distract! Nobody SAID other members [of Thaksin's family] were "as guilty as him". By recharacterizing an issue you think you can divert the argument. No one NEEDS to be "as guilty as him" in order to be guilty by association and subject to his self-serving influence, and therefore NOT acting in the national interest. It's not about political families, and it's not about relative guilt, and that makes your post just plain irrelevant nonsense.

Edited December 7, 2013 by hawker9000