New protest clashes shake Thai capital

[metisdead]

If you have something to add, discuss it here, rather than just pasting outside links. Posts have been removed across multiple topics in which the same link has been posted.

[Yunla]

"The billionaire tycoon-turned-premier is hated by the elites, Bangkok's middle class and southerners, who have massed in the capital in recent days vowing to rid the country of his influence."

This lot are the elite and middle class?

Lazy stereotyping and macro-labelling is the hallmark of many journalists on the Thai political scene. Its hard to know if they are joking.

There are also huge numbers of Bangkok blue-collar workers, aspirational working-class, students etc. who hate PTP and who side with the Dems as the perceived "lesser of two evils".

I've spent a lot of years in hospital here, sometimes six months as in-patient. I always talk to the nurses while I'm reading the newspaper, most of the nurses are low-paid working-class, several years ago the nurses went down to the airport seige to listen to Dem speeches, they came in to give me my injections and they had their little yellow badges on. And these are junior nurses, the lowest paid people in hospital except janitors, they were outspokenly Anti-Thaksin (although they only had nice things to say about people in the North.)

But that kind of detailed reporting of a complicated reality, is too complex for some reporters.

It is much easier and more exciting to describe the Dem/PTP as a CLASS WAR with bitter hatred and blood dripping from pitchforks in moonlight battles on rooftops etc. In reality it is working class people and ultra rich people in BOTH the Dem and PTP camps, but that does for an exciting headline not make.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Yunla

[JRSoul]

Casually mentioned "a male protester was shot in the leg and sent to hospital."

Who, where, shot by whom would be interesting to know. Are the security forces resorting to gunfire, or was this one of those sporadic rounds, often explosive, that just seem to come out of thin air to hit protesters of anti-Thaksin inclination?

[briboy]

have been reading the news about this on the aussie abc website supplied by the AFP and it is so pro red shirt it isnt funny, no mention of dead/injured students, no pics of reds doing damage, or the threats the jatuporn issued etc just all the students . Thaksin is described as a great leader and intimate he was incorrectly charged, no mention of the fraud involved at all, seems that the AFP is another ptp mouthpiece or a thaksin paid lap dog.

I agree, I said the same yesterday, pretty pathetic.

[JRSoul]

What about the 300 baht minimum wage?

Yes that has been wonderful, hardly caused any inflation at all. Nobody lost their jobs or were put on contract, and the self employed just naturally increased productivity so they wouldn't be left behind. I'm surprised that they haven't doubled wages again, it was such a roaring success.

[wprime]

Another misleading AFP article, here are some corrections:

But he is adored by many outside Bangkok, particularly in his stronghold in the nation's north, and Yingluck's party has a solid parliamentary majority.

PTP does not have a parliamentary majority at all.

At least two of the dead were believed to be Red Shirt supporters.

What's the point of this? Are they trying to say red shirt deaths are more important? Why ignore the fact that an RU student was shot dead by a man dressed in Red Shirt uniform? If you want to question whether he was really a red shirt that's fine, but excluding the fact completely dishonours the student.

The circumstances of the violence were unclear but the trouble came after an anti-government mob attacked Red Shirts arriving to join the rally in Ramkhamhaeng district.

Red shirts were a mob too, not just the RU students, just calling the RU students a mob demonstrates obvious bias. Also there are plenty indications that the red shirts started the trouble (Jatuporn's speeches threatening the students, the rector's police report of a student being attacked by a red shirt). To state that the trouble began after the red shirts were attacked is conjecture.

The protests were triggered by an amnesty bill, since abandoned by the ruling party, which opponents feared would have allowed Thaksin to return to the country.

The bill was not officially abandoned, all we have is Yingluck promising not to bring it up again. Also saying 'opponents feared' implies there was some ambiguity - there wasn't - the bill would have allowed Thaksin to return to the country.

[bigbamboo]

Shouldn't that be the premier-turned-billionaire tycoon?

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[risky11]

Great article. All true, unbiased and just a presentation of the way he tried to manipulate the system. Interesting how they point out without rewards of money, his popularity would disappear. Sad that some sectors of the rural folk are so shallow and based around how money is god; they must go to the temple pissed up or never listen to the monk's teachings.

" . . . democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths." -- James Madison

[SABloke]

Excavator just delivered to protesters - this should be interesting

[MK1]

Protestors look like they have the ultimate weapon now to remove the remaining barricades …”A front end loader”…hand-shakes, hugs and kisses with Police is coming soon ( as stupid as it sounds but true) once they break through to the other side.

Edited December 2, 2013 by MK1

[Skywalker69]

"without rewards of money, his popularity would disappear"

Sorry don't agree, many who have regard for him here in Chiang Mai have never taken or wanted his largesse..

I have no axe to grind for any of the greedy self promoting buffoons in Thai politics, but at least Thaksin introduced the 30 baht medical scheme, pensions for the elderly, tried to curb the power of the military (thereby hastening his demise) and pointed out to Civil Servants that there job was to "serve" the people without the encouragement of a brown envelope.

<deleted> has Abhisit ever done for the "people"?

He made the 30 baht health service free. Reasoning that the administrative costs of collecting the 30 baht were higher than 30 baht. PTP has since re-introduced the 30 baht fee as a PR measure.

He tried to implement land reforms that would have worked by increasing taxes for the huge land tracts held by the elite. Reasoning that it would cause these gigantic estates to be split up and allow the small holder to own his own land. PTP have indebted the poor farmers through their rice schemes, pushing loans and corruption of biblical proportions causing poor farmers to lose their land and are now forced to rent their land for up to 200% more than it cost just 3 years ago. Progress?

He envisioned a country with rule of law, fairly implemented, without favor or bias. This idea was scuppered when PTP came to power after their razing of Bangkok which caused the dismantling of all checks and balances to enable them to get away with their misdeeds. That the owner of PTP is himself a convicted fugitive and fraudster never did bode very well for justice now did it.

You probably don't want to hear this so I will stop now.

Abhisit also made the scool uniforms free and this was PTP quick to remove.

[briboy]

excavator or front end loader it`s either 1 or the other?

[how241]

Great video....Thanks for posting.

[MK1]

excavator or front end loader it`s either 1 or the other?

Front end loader=

[SABloke]

excavator or front end loader it`s either 1 or the other?

Front end loader - I'm not au faix with construction vehicles, sorry

Edited December 2, 2013 by SABloke

[gemini81]

"without rewards of money, his popularity would disappear"

Sorry don't agree, many who have regard for him here in Chiang Mai have never taken or wanted his largesse..

I have no axe to grind for any of the greedy self promoting buffoons in Thai politics, but at least Thaksin introduced the 30 baht medical scheme, pensions for the elderly, tried to curb the power of the military (thereby hastening his demise) and pointed out to Civil Servants that there job was to "serve" the people without the encouragement of a brown envelope.

<deleted> has Abhisit ever done for the "people"?

He made the 30 baht health service free. Reasoning that the administrative costs of collecting the 30 baht were higher than 30 baht. PTP has since re-introduced the 30 baht fee as a PR measure.

He tried to implement land reforms that would have worked by increasing taxes for the huge land tracts held by the elite. Reasoning that it would cause these gigantic estates to be split up and allow the small holder to own his own land. PTP have indebted the poor farmers through their rice schemes, pushing loans and corruption of biblical proportions causing poor farmers to lose their land and are now forced to rent their land for up to 200% more than it cost just 3 years ago. Progress?

He envisioned a country with rule of law, fairly implemented, without favor or bias. This idea was scuppered when PTP came to power after their razing of Bangkok which caused the dismantling of all checks and balances to enable them to get away with their misdeeds. That the owner of PTP is himself a convicted fugitive and fraudster never did bode very well for justice now did it.

You probably don't want to hear this so I will stop now.

Fine, but my question was "what did he ever do/ AKA achieve", not what were his grandiose ideas!

I can just see his Lords and Masters loving the idea of having their estates split up and a fairly implemented rule of law.

He didn't have time to roll out the results of all the plans, though some were under implementation. Instead, he had to deal with ridiculous disruption and more hell than the current admin.

You should ask what did he do that was dishonest, corrupt, cheating? And then compare that thought to the cowardly Thaksin.

[risky11]

Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2011/02/268249/#4SIBRoDARjXrb2PP.99

Edited December 2, 2013 by risky11

[briboy]

excavator or front end loader it`s either 1 or the other?

Front end loader - I'm not au faix with construction vehicles, sorry

sorry mate, couldn't help it just trying to lighten things up is all and I wouldn't know the first thing about working in a factory/general store.

[Dogmatix]

Thai social media has also reported that the protestors are deploying one those trucks that sucks the sh*t out of cess pools to put into reserve fire against police lines.

[rebelplatoon]

70.000 people. Wow, must be a lot of upper and middle class on the streets...

[SABloke]

Now reversing garbage truck into one of the barriers (1 concrete barrier then line of police). If I was one of the police I'd start contemplating desertion :-)

[ib1b4]

The truck did not work as planned so now we have a heavy front end loader ! That should be able to break in.

Edited December 2, 2013 by ib1b4

[kiwikoppy]

Now reversing garbage truck into one of the barriers (1 concrete barrier then line of police). If I was one of the police I'd start contemplating desertion :-)

Desertion? I would contemplate firing at the protesters as would happen in any other country.

I am all for peaceful protesting, but they are going too far now.

[SABloke]

Now reversing garbage truck into one of the barriers (1 concrete barrier then line of police). If I was one of the police I'd start contemplating desertion :-)

Desertion? I would contemplate firing at the protesters as would happen in any other country.

I am all for peaceful protesting, but they are going too far now.

Can't fire at the driver of a REVERSING garbage truck - I'm just saying that a truck hurtling towards me would make me sh*t my pants. You're braver than me - I salute you

[kiwikoppy]

Now reversing garbage truck into one of the barriers (1 concrete barrier then line of police). If I was one of the police I'd start contemplating desertion :-)

Desertion? I would contemplate firing at the protesters as would happen in any other country.

I am all for peaceful protesting, but they are going too far now.

Can't fire at the driver of a REVERSING garbage truck - I'm just saying that a truck hurtling towards me would make me sh*t my pants. You're braver than me - I salute you

I actually meant the guys that would follow the truck

i would surely step aside from a garbage truck

But then again, nothing an rpg cant solve

[sorbormoryorhor]

The news article refers to a shoting. Any more details?

Live rounds are being used for the second day but today by whom?

This part of the article is perhaps the most important and most worrying but completely side-lined.

[metisdead]

A post of a defamatory nature has been removed as well as a reply.

[Boxclever]

"the talks were simply a means to issue his demand for the government to hand power "to the people"."

No. Not "the" people, "his" people. He does not want new elections. Of course not. He doesn't want democracy where all these stupid rural people get to vote and don't vote the way he wants them to. They are such fools I can hear him say. He knows better than the majority.

Well guess what Suthep? In a democracy you actually have to go through the painful process of educating the voters as to why they should vote for you instead of the people you don't like. Anything else is called a dictatorship. You know, where the minority rule over the majority "for their own good". And you commandeer the press and force them to broadcast "your message" for their own good. Sound familiar Khun Suthep?

Deary me. This is not good.

Absolutely...and who do you think will head this supposed "transition government"? wouldn't be Khun Suthep would it?

These terrorist actions are nothing short of ousting a justly elected government and replacing it with a dictatorship.

If Suthep ever gets to run government then say hello to a new dictatorship with Suthep at the helm.

"for the good of the people" my azz, smacks of 1932...Heil Suthep!!

[andrewrooney]

'Hopefully a little bit of tear gas will sort them out.' Yeah right! Since when has a little bit of tear gas EVER sorted out a mob of Thai anti-government protesters, especially around Government House? Check the history books on this! There's always a first time for everything I suppose.

It worked pretty well last year.