Australian pension changes

[johnmcc6]

I have just read in the O z media the government is about to change pension rules for those living overseas on a permanent basis. At present one qualifies for the pension by having lived in Australia for 25 years minimum. Next year this is to be changed to 35 years. It does not say this will be retrospective or just for retirees from now on. Anyone know anything about this? If retrospective it would mean in my case I would be forced to return to Oz. I don't want to do this .

There will be many other changes to pensions so all Australian expats should keep an eye out to what effects the changes will mean to individuals.

[masuk]

I downloaded their information sheets last week on this.

You'll find it on the Centrelink site, (now humanservices.gov.au) as well as pension dates for the next 12 months. Look up Australian Pension News October 2013.

Also check out humanservices.gov.au/payments overseas

The biggest difference seems to be that if you go back and stay for 6 months, after July 1st, then the new rules apply.

Also they want to be told before you get back there, for whatever length of time..

Most, if not all, is applicable only if you make a move after December 30th.

It also says the rules on how much pension is paid MAY be changing.

If you're in Thailand now, not a problem. Just don't go back this year!

[nivram4491]

From what I've read, the change from 25 years residence to 35 years residence will not affect any Australian age pensioner not living in

Australia on Jan 1, 2014. However, if after Jan 1, 2014, you return to Australia and stay for more than 26 weeks, the new rules will apply if you leave Australia again to live overseas.

[pom66]

if you do not have 35 years you will lose a tiny bit of your pension according to how many years residency you have

[johnmcc6]

Thanks guys...I feel better already....I guess what they are saying is don't come back !! Maybe they are trying to stop some from going back to get medical benefits or something before returning here??? Seems a bit strange though. I read somewhere that Australia has a much greater inflow of pensions from other countries to residents than it pays out to the likes of us. It will make it harder for some though. Many people only live overseas because they can't afford their own country. As much as I love Australia I still love it here.Lets hope other changes are not too harsh.

[Will27]

For more info, see here

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/163135-australian-aged-pension/page-36

[simple1]

Just to ensure there is no misunderstanding the proposed changes as of 01/01/2014 are to increase the Working Life Residency criteria (starting from age 16) for full Aged Pension from 25 to 35 years.

[CMKiwi]

Youre lucky mate, across the ditch in NZ they changed their pension scheme a few years back. The rules now state that for overseas kiwis to be eligible, one has to spend at least 5 years in NZ between your 50th and 65th birthday. Now that really sucks if you dont really want to return to NZ. Irrespective of if you spent your previous 50 years in NZ.

Just another way for the kiwi government to keep hold of your tax money?

I hope for your sake the Aussie government doesnt copy the kiwis, its a real <deleted> deal and Im none too impressed.

[Loaded]

The Australian government seems to be doing what the UK government does. IE promise you lots of benefits at the start of your working life and then remove them when you go to claim them. This would be described as deception or fraud if it were a private company reneging on promises. However, as it's our government, we have to take it on the chin. I think we are long due a people's revolution in many of our Western democracies.

[Saan]

The Australian government seems to be doing what the UK government does. IE promise you lots of benefits at the start of your working life and then remove them when you go to claim them. This would be described as deception or fraud if it were a private company reneging on promises. However, as it's our government, we have to take it on the chin. I think we are long due a people's revolution in many of our Western democracies.

The government should start to worry about grey power. It could be the biggest voting block in the country and it's going to get bigger.

Expats should threaten to move back home and that would put the fear of god into them. Thinks of all those medical and pharmaceutical bills. They should be paying a bonus for expats to stay overseas.

[Sparkles]

The Australian government seems to be doing what the UK government does. IE promise you lots of benefits at the start of your working life and then remove them when you go to claim them. This would be described as deception or fraud if it were a private company reneging on promises. However, as it's our government, we have to take it on the chin. I think we are long due a people's revolution in many of our Western democracies.

The government should start to worry about grey power. It could be the biggest voting block in the country and it's going to get bigger.

Expats should threaten to move back home and that would put the fear of god into them. Thinks of all those medical and pharmaceutical bills. They should be paying a bonus for expats to stay overseas.

Exactly, we cost the country far less by living here in Thailand and other countries. I belivee that Australia maybe soon be experiencing reverse immigration because of the soaring cost of living.

Sydney is now the 3rd highest cost of living city in the world,Many years ago it probably wasn't in the top 50 What I had to got through with Centrelink to get my aged pension was unbelievable and that was after a working life of over 40 years. For anyone who has been living out of Oz for some time and thinks they can go back and get their aged pension,when turning 65, and return immediately, you are sadly in for a rude shock.

[simple1]

For anyone who has been living out of Oz for some time and thinks they can go back and get their aged pension,when turning 65, and return immediately, you are sadly in for a rude shock.

Are you OK provide some detail either in reponse to these open forum questions or by PM?

How long were you away from Australia at the time of applying for Aged Pension?

I guess if more that a year or so you had to go through the process with Centrelink to address the criteria for Australian residency; what were the challenges?.

You were required to remain in Australia for a minimum of two years once Aged Pension was granted in order to have the Aged pension paid upon returning overseas?

[Sparkles]

For anyone who has been living out of Oz for some time and thinks they can go back and get their aged pension,when turning 65, and return immediately, you are sadly in for a rude shock.

Are you OK provide some detail either in reponse to these open forum questions or by PM?

How long were you away from Australia at the time of applying for Aged Pension?

I guess if more that a year or so you had to go through the process with Centrelink to address the criteria for Australian residency; what were the challenges?.

You were required to remain in Australia for a minimum of two years once Aged Pension was granted in order to have the Aged pension paid upon returning overseas?

I would prefer to do by PM.Its a very complicated issue as each case its treated on its merits and circumstances .Eg how many times have you returned ,what for,how long ? etc etc. Believe me the challenges were quite daunting and I was initially told I would have to stay for 2 years to qualify ie detained in my own country ,great when you have recently married here. Some may not be aware that each time you enter Oz and leave your passport is swiped and info goes to Gov departments, so the worse thing you can do is not be honest. My pension is now deemed "portable" so I don't have a problem.If you want to send me specific questions I will try to help.There are also various links on Centrelinks web site. If our Gov would only tell people the ramifications of leaving it would help there must be multiple thousands of Australians currently working OS

[Saan]

For anyone who has been living out of Oz for some time and thinks they can go back and get their aged pension,when turning 65, and return immediately, you are sadly in for a rude shock.

Are you OK provide some detail either in reponse to these open forum questions or by PM?

How long were you away from Australia at the time of applying for Aged Pension?

I guess if more that a year or so you had to go through the process with Centrelink to address the criteria for Australian residency; what were the challenges?.

You were required to remain in Australia for a minimum of two years once Aged Pension was granted in order to have the Aged pension paid upon returning overseas?

I would prefer to do by PM.Its a very complicated issue as each case its treated on its merits and circumstances .Eg how many times have you returned ,what for,how long ? etc etc. Believe me the challenges were quite daunting and I was initially told I would have to stay for 2 years to qualify ie detained in my own country ,great when you have recently married here. Some may not be aware that each time you enter Oz and leave your passport is swiped and info goes to Gov departments, so the worse thing you can do is not be honest. My pension is now deemed "portable" so I don't have a problem.If you want to send me specific questions I will try to help.There are also various links on Centrelinks web site. If our Gov would only tell people the ramifications of leaving it would help there must be multiple thousands of Australians currently working OS

I know someone who has lived here for over 10 years and flew back and claimed his pension without the 2 year qualification period. What he did was never tell the Government that he was residing overseas and return to Australia for a brief visit a couple of times a year.

[masuk]

The Australian government seems to be doing what the UK government does. IE promise you lots of benefits at the start of your working life and then remove them when you go to claim them. This would be described as deception or fraud if it were a private company reneging on promises. However, as it's our government, we have to take it on the chin. I think we are long due a people's revolution in many of our Western democracies.

The government should start to worry about grey power. It could be the biggest voting block in the country and it's going to get bigger.

Expats should threaten to move back home and that would put the fear of god into them. Thinks of all those medical and pharmaceutical bills. They should be paying a bonus for expats to stay overseas.

Exactly, we cost the country far less by living here in Thailand and other countries. I belivee that Australia maybe soon be experiencing reverse immigration because of the soaring cost of living.

Sydney is now the 3rd highest cost of living city in the world,Many years ago it probably wasn't in the top 50 What I had to got through with Centrelink to get my aged pension was unbelievable and that was after a working life of over 40 years. For anyone who has been living out of Oz for some time and thinks they can go back and get their aged pension,when turning 65, and return immediately, you are sadly in for a rude shock.

Yes, you're correct about us not costing the Oz Govt the various subsidies they pay for power, pharmaceuticals etc. Believe me, they know to the minute when your passport is swiped on the way in.

Oddly enough, my GP still bulk bills me each visit, twice a year, and when I questioned this with the doctor's receptionist, she phoned straight through to someone and confirmed then and there that I'd arrived back in Oz the day before and yes, I could continue getting the benefits of bulk billing.

However, my visit to the pharmacist was quite different, and he told me I'd been taken off the pharmaceutical benefits list and had to pay the vastly overpriced cost of medicine. Cholesterol lowering drugs were listed as $55.00 each, and in the UK I read that the same thing is around 3 pounds.

Fortunately, the cost here in Thailand is nowhere near those prices.

[Sparkles]

For anyone who has been living out of Oz for some time and thinks they can go back and get their aged pension,when turning 65, and return immediately, you are sadly in for a rude shock.

Are you OK provide some detail either in reponse to these open forum questions or by PM?

How long were you away from Australia at the time of applying for Aged Pension?

I guess if more that a year or so you had to go through the process with Centrelink to address the criteria for Australian residency; what were the challenges?.

You were required to remain in Australia for a minimum of two years once Aged Pension was granted in order to have the Aged pension paid upon returning overseas?

I would prefer to do by PM.Its a very complicated issue as each case its treated on its merits and circumstances .Eg how many times have you returned ,what for,how long ? etc etc. Believe me the challenges were quite daunting and I was initially told I would have to stay for 2 years to qualify ie detained in my own country ,great when you have recently married here. Some may not be aware that each time you enter Oz and leave your passport is swiped and info goes to Gov departments, so the worse thing you can do is not be honest. My pension is now deemed "portable" so I don't have a problem.If you want to send me specific questions I will try to help.There are also various links on Centrelinks web site. If our Gov would only tell people the ramifications of leaving it would help there must be multiple thousands of Australians currently working OS

I know someone who has lived here for over 10 years and flew back and claimed his pension without the 2 year qualification period. What he did was never tell the Government that he was residing overseas and return to Australia for a brief visit a couple of times a year.

Well he would be an exception and I never said the net didn't have few holes in it. I have spoken to some who went back to claim their pension and did spend the 2 years qualifying period. There is a free call service from Thailand to the International Services Dept, its 001 800 611 4136.They are based in Hobart..I was out of the country for 9 years,returning once a year, and the computer screen showed exactly when I entered and left the country that was 5 years ago and I guess things haven't changed.

[seajae]

dspoverseas.proboards is a great site with all the relevant info and people that can help you, if you cant find it pm for the url. They gave me heaps of help in my recent clash with centrelink and the members have a wealth of knowledge on the aussie pensions.

[mikey88]

So can anyone say definitively what the rules are for obtaining an aged pension and having itnlaid overseas?

Assuming that is that you have lived in Australia all your life or alternatively qualify for the 35 year rule.....what are the rules?

1/ do you have to be in OZ continuously for a period of time before applying?

2/ can you depart once the penson is granted?

Etc etc...

Does anyone have the knowledge and patience to expalin....I'd be very grateful...

Mike

[Sparkles]

So can anyone say definitively what the rules are for obtaining an aged pension and having itnlaid overseas?

Assuming that is that you have lived in Australia all your life or alternatively qualify for the 35 year rule.....what are the rules?

1/ do you have to be in OZ continuously for a period of time before applying?

2/ can you depart once the penson is granted?

Etc etc...

Does anyone have the knowledge and patience to expalin....I'd be very grateful...

Mike

Mike , Its a very complicated issue depending on your circumstances ,time spent out of the country,if any,how many times you have returned and for what duration, financial ties to the country, real estate ownership, family etc.

Each case is treated on it merits, it would appear.I was advised ,by Centrelink, while living in Bangkok to front up about a month before my 65th birthday and that's when the fun started which I wont go into here. i thought it would be a breeze but it wasn't others will tell you its not a problem.I had ,however been out of the country working for 9 years.Sinful.

In post 16 I gave the free call no and there is a web site link www.humanservices.gov.au/paymentsoverseas

You will definately have to be in the county when you apply . No Asian countries have reciprocal rights with Oz

[masuk]

Suggest you read the Pensioner News for October, as I first mentioned. A lot of the answers are there, and also look through the internet site as it has all the answers.

My pension goes to my Aussie bank and I transfer what I need; however, I know of others who have it transferred directly to their bank here.

Sign into the Human Services site and if you're not registered do it now, and start hunting!

Agree with everything 'Sparkles". Get on down there and sign up. Warning: get to the offices early, as the queue is big within minutes. Take all your papers with you.

[skills32]

Basically getting a OAP and taking it OS is easy providing you have the working life period clause. But there is a bit of work involved.

I have spoken to quite a few expats here about the same subject and I get the answers

no the rules have changed

centrelink said

it's different no

won't work

or they wouldn't do what I suggested

What it involves is going right through the processing and the appeals process until you get to the

Administrative Appeals Tribunal. If you have done your homework and have your story ready; when you get the initial phone call

the tribunal you tell them your story and they should reconsider and grant you unlimited portability.

If you have good story (mine was that it didn;t apply to me) they will cave in because they don;t want to go to the OAM in case they lose.

[sceadugenga]

What you have to watch is that Centrelink considers you a resident when you apply.

If you have been living overseas, regardless of already having spent 35 years working life residency in Australia, your age pension will not be portable for 2 years.

[harrry]

What you have to watch is that Centrelink considers you a resident when you apply.

If you have been living overseas, regardless of already having spent 35 years working life residency in Australia, your age pension will not be portable for 2 years.

An interesting thought. If you go to a country which has an agreement with Australia and apply from there would you get unlimited portability immediately as you obviously cannot leave Australia as you are not in it.

[sceadugenga]

Claiming Australian pensions

International Services is responsible for all agreement pension customers living in Australia and customers living overseas. Australia has social security agreements with many countries. For more information, go to International Social Security Agreements.
People who have lived in Australia but now live in an agreement country can still claim an Australian pension. Equally, people who used to live or work in an agreement country, but have since moved to Australia, can claim Australian pension even if they haven't lived here long enough to qualify under Australian laws.
Under an international social security agreement, each country generally contributes an amount to a person's retirement income. For most countries this is measured by the period for which a person has contributed to that country's social security scheme. For Australia, it is based on a person's residence in Australia and their income and assets.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/international-services#a3

[simple1]

What you have to watch is that Centrelink considers you a resident when you apply.

If you have been living overseas, regardless of already having spent 35 years working life residency in Australia, your age pension will not be portable for 2 years.

Just is case people are unaware, granting of residency upon return to Australia for claiming Centrelink benefits such as Aged Pension is not automatic even though you meet the Working Life requirements. Full criteria and cases where residency was / was not accepted for claiming benfits at:

http://guidesacts.fahcsia.gov.au/guides_acts/ssg/ssguide-3/ssguide-3.1/ssguide-3.1.1/ssguide-3.1.1.10.html

Edited December 6, 2013 by simple1

[masuk]

I was teaching in Indonesia for 6 years before returning to Oz. I applied for the OAP 3 months after arriving, and had no problems. I'd done the required 25 years as it was then, but maybe the 2 year residency thing is another of their bright new ideas.

[Sheryl]

As not CM-specific, moved to General forum

[Aussieroaming]

Yeah and what about all of the blokes grafting overseas who have claimed non residency for a couple of years to meet the tax laws for tax free overseas earnings? Does that mean they are doing their future pension in because they temporarily claim non residency. Most of them have paid tax for the vast majority of their working lives.

[Aussieroaming]

The Australian government seems to be doing what the UK government does. IE promise you lots of benefits at the start of your working life and then remove them when you go to claim them. This would be described as deception or fraud if it were a private company reneging on promises. However, as it's our government, we have to take it on the chin. I think we are long due a people's revolution in many of our Western democracies.

The government should start to worry about grey power. It could be the biggest voting block in the country and it's going to get bigger.

Expats should threaten to move back home and that would put the fear of god into them. Thinks of all those medical and pharmaceutical bills. They should be paying a bonus for expats to stay overseas.

Exactly, we cost the country far less by living here in Thailand and other countries. I belivee that Australia maybe soon be experiencing reverse immigration because of the soaring cost of living.

Sydney is now the 3rd highest cost of living city in the world,Many years ago it probably wasn't in the top 50 What I had to got through with Centrelink to get my aged pension was unbelievable and that was after a working life of over 40 years. For anyone who has been living out of Oz for some time and thinks they can go back and get their aged pension,when turning 65, and return immediately, you are sadly in for a rude shock.

2 year wait for any benefits if you've declared non residency

[Prbkk]

They (both parties) get away with this because they CAN. There is no other explanation. It doesn't make sense from a financial or taxation perspective. The very idea that a few hundred thousand expats returning to Australia to become a drain on the health system? On any rational argument you would think: let them stay overseas and live on the pension. But this is slimy politicians believing that they don't have to worry or care about retired expats ( not on the electoral roll=you don't exist ). Meanwhile, they live on fully indexed definite benefit pensions ( and can live wherever they like). Expat retirees= cheap ( no cost to govt, fully self-funded, unless able/willing to jump through hoops to get some benefit). It's a rotten system but what chance of a reciprocal social security agreement with Thailand....nil, as everyone knows