Why can't foreigners in Thailand read and speak Thai?

[brucegoniners]

Thailand has been my home for 30 years and I do not read nor do I speak Thai. What business is it of yours?

Amen brother!

[glegolo]

Posted Today, 08:4

I am always appalled at the vast majority of foreigners living permanently or quasi-permanently in Thailand and yet being completely illiterate. I have met almost none who could read Thai, when it does not take that long to learn. Most of them can blabber a couple sentences in Thai in such a horrible accent that only bar girls can understand. Very few are able to speak basic conversational Thai. I am sure that a vast majority of them would cringe at foreigners coming to their countries and refusing to learn their language. So why can't foreigners in Thailand learn to read and speak?

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I have heard this kind of reasoning before at many times from people. To start with, to compare immigrants to our western countries where society takes care of the individuel, ler him work, let him in on contributions from the taxpayers and he will be able to live (if he wants to) a selfsupporting life Contrary to that, we falang come to Thailand, and rules and regulations directed at us from the getgo is there to obstruct us from even making a penny without a huge lot of hazle..... For me I am not interested to spend million of hours learning a language where the country dont want me, dont like me, dont want me to make any money (they call that actually - to take money from Thailand...)

So NO I dont care, I get by with english and a few words and sentancies in thai.

But hey, it is up to everyone....

Glegolo

[Docno]

I have no interest in speaking to Thai people in general. I speak 3 languages already, Thai is not a good addition. Oz

Wow. Imagine a Chinese (for instance) moving to Australia and saying (in Chinese of course!) he has no intention of learning English because he has no interest in conversing with the locals. Yes, it happens, but I suspect the majority of Australians would think the attitude is inexcusable.

[eddie61]

Its really surprising, I agree.

After all, Thai is the Lingua Franca of international commerce, and given the country's predominant role as a hub of everything, destined to supplant Mandarin, English and Spanish in the near future.

I hear that parents in the US, Europe and China are queuing up to enrol their kids for Thai lessons, so they can compete in the global economy, or maybe just negotiate a decent price for a BJ

[eurozhongguo]

Thai is in fact one of the easiest Asian languages to learn (Japanese and Korean being thge hardest). Much of the grammar in Thai resembles romance and celrtic languages in the sense that the adjective foillows the noun and there are subordinate clauses in the language. Korean, Japanese and Chinese don't have suboredinate clauses. Rather, they turn phrases into a kind of adjectival phrases which foreigners find particularly difficult to master, even after speaking those languages for years.

I don't live in Thailand and have never lived there. However, I have learnt to read Thai and could manage it the first time I went to the country after learning to read. However, I have now forgotten it again and will need to learn it again. Those living in the country would not forget it. After all, Thai script is simple compared with Japanese and Chinese. I also try and order things using Thai and Thais are usually far friendlier as a result, especially in tourist areas where most other farang know nothing.

Just as a matter of general information, I can speak 8 languages, five of them to native-tongue level.

[DavidMavec]

In my opinion that happens for two reasons.

First, learning Thai in Thailand is not particularly necessary. It's not like going to South America without speaking Spanish. That would be a problem and you wouldn't be able to do anything. Speaking the local language there is a must. However here it's different as more and more Thais speak English.

Second, a lot of foreigners start to learn to speak/read/write at some point but often they get discouraged by the locals' behavior towards them. As a foreigner you are never going to be able to fully integrate into the society. You won't ever be fully accepted. No matter what you do, here you are just a foreigner. That attitude understandably makes people feel that they don't want to put in effort as they are never going to be rewarded.

You hit the nail on the head with the second reason S1Str8. In my case, I studied Thai for a year and learned to speak, read, and write. I find the Thai language itself fascinating as it is so different from my native language. I can read the newspaper with some difficulty but have no problems reading signs, holding a general conversation, etc. I understand most of what I hear on the radio, maybe 70%. For a long time I had the idea that if I learned Thai to a very good level, Thais would accept me and I could integrate into society. But wow, was I wrong! I found that learning Thai actually increased resistance from Thai people in many different situations! (not all). After having many different situations like this, I finally decided that I am fed up with this behavior and have decided not to continue my studies. I can say that I resent Thai people to some extent after this experience... I feel like I have a more genuine picture of Thais from this situation that most foreigners do and it is not a pretty one.

I think my belief that integration was possible because I lived and studied in different countries in South America for a couple years and learned to speak very fluent Spanish. There I found the people to be genuinely welcoming, open, and receptive to me, despite my country's injust foreign policy in these countries (U.S.). They took me as a person, not just the product of my nationality Here in Thailand, I do not feel that same way...I find the people to be very insincere overall. I am just another farang, less than a person in some Thai people's eyes, and I am ready to get the hell out of here.

Edited December 4, 2013 by DavidMavec

[Docno]

Some people are placing too much evidence on the role of age. The research actually shows that age itself isn't a huge factor in second language acquisition (i.e., the idea that there's a sensitive age during which one can learn a second language to high proficiency has been discredited). The major factors are motivation and context: how much effort are you willing to put into learning the language and are you able to engineer an immersive context in which to learn the language (not just a 2 hour lesson once a week); feeling embarrassed about making mistakes and being socially anxious will also play a part.

Of course, if you believe you are too old to learn a new language, or if you disrespect the speakers of the language, then the odds are you won't be very motivated. And if you only hang around other expats and your partner makes it easy for you by speaking English all the time, well, you won't have the right context. And if you're over 40, you might simply use age as an excuse when, in fact, these other factors are at play. A good friend of mine (now 50) has learned to be fluent in German, Russian, and Mandarin (3 very different languages with different scripts) over the past 15 years. He does it because he believes he can, and he completely immerses himself in the culture (and the language learning process) ... this year he went to stay in Beijing for several weeks and studiously avoided contact with foreigners. The trip was just to accelerate his language learning, and he's doing it out of pure interest. How many of us would be willing to do this?

[sirchai]

I've met a guy at my embassy who'd lived here for more than 20 years, but couldn't say a word in Thai.

Those people are usually the same ones who complain how bad the Thais in English are.

I've just recently met a couple, where the German guy din't understand what his wife was saying to mine Nor did she think that I'd understand her.

She must have thought that my wife was also a bar girl before and told us right away that her other German husband had kicked her out, but she'd found that "weird guy" in a few days.

They're at the village for the not really needed, but expensive Buddhist marriage.If you wanna live in Spain, learn Spanish, it's that easy.-

[mgjackson69]

Well I gave up years ago and today was a good example of why. Got in taxi alone, asked khun mee pleng mai, repeated three times driver thought I was on about the meter. Mrs says I speak very good (well she would) Get to home a tell him soi hok, he tries to go down soi 2, mai chai soi hok, tries to go down soi 4, finally we get there by eliminating the wrong sois. It's really not worth the bother as far as i'm concerned, I have done my best and that's it.

I should add I have lived here 7 years and started 'learning' to speak in 1995, obviously not well enough even for the simplest of things.

Well, if your wife understands, you must be speaking correctly to some extent. I don't let those things get me down, as some people here just see a foreign face and completely shut down linguistically. That is their mental block. Sometimes I say something like "hey, I am speaking Thai right now" and they usually snap out of it (some still don't! up to them, hahahaha). I just keep talking to them then rock on down the way.

By the way, I have the same thing with my wife in both languages. We understand each other pretty well, but often have to "translate" parts of what I say in Thai or she says in English to others. We both know the mistakes or oddities in pronunciation the other one is making, so it makes sense that we would understand each other more.

I have experienced this in other countries as well as Thailand. The native is expecting you to speak English, so when you speak to them in Thai (or Spanish), it is as if they do not make the connection that you are speaking their language.

My wife and I are much the same way as dao16 described, we use a mix of Thai and English. We use a paper Thai <-> English dictionary, and the thai2english application for Windows as needed.

I am still learning to speak Thai better, but it is "learn as you go" for me now...I have zero interest in sitting in a class anymore.

When I get to the point where I can speak Thai pretty well, I will tackle reading and writing the language.

[oneday]

Second, a lot of foreigners start to learn to speak/read/write at some point but often they get discouraged by the locals' behavior towards them. As a foreigner you are never going to be able to fully integrate into the society. You won't ever be fully accepted. No matter what you do, here you are just a foreigner. That attitude understandably makes people feel that they don't want to put in effort as they are never going to be rewarded.

This is so true. I haven't run into it much where it is blatant, but many Thais are disgusted to hear you trying to speak their language. Admittedly I do a bad job, but at least I'm trying. There are many Thai's that would just as soon you stick to English and not mangle their language. In Issan this may be different, but I don't live there. I was once cut off short by a guy at a fishing park when I tried to speak, he said, "don't speak Thai, I speak English".

As far as reading, it is not easy. I spent two solid months studying on my own for 6-8 hours a day. To this day it's still hard to tell where one word or syllable ends and another begins. Once you know how to read there are many clues that will tell you, but there are many instances those clues are not there and some consonants are used twice; called re-duplicated. I can read about 80% of Thai and maybe understand 20%. After all this time there are still only a few words I can recognize without having to sound it out.

In any Spanish country I know I would have been speaking like no tomorrow if I had moved to a country with that language. I'm proud of what I've learned and know, but it isn't easy with the tones and length of vowels. For every word you learn you must learn 3 things, tone, vowel length and the word.

Bottom line is I think everyone should make a certain effort, but to go as far as trying to speak and read well, I understand the difficulty and lack of motivation. Then there are people who could care less.

[brit1984]

i would like to learn thai but i'm too busy posting on the thaivisa forum

[DavidMavec]

I have experienced this in other countries as well as Thailand. The native is expecting you to speak English, so when you speak to them in Thai (or Spanish), it is as if they do not make the connection that you are speaking their language.

This has absolutely never been my experience other than in Thailand. I have spent time in almost every single Spanish speaking country and never had this experience, ever. I think this is mostly unique to Thailand because there is a prevailing cultural idea that foreigners should not attempt to integrate and are fundamentally different than Thai people.

[Jackson86]

My brother has been working in thailand for 2 years but he only speaks but not writes or read thai. I think foreigners can start by speaking first then slowly proceed to writing and reading. My chinese language is actually more difficult than thai !

[sirchai]

Thai is in fact one of the easiest Asian languages to learn (Japanese and Korean being thge hardest). Much of the grammar in Thai resembles romance and celrtic languages in the sense that the adjective foillows the noun and there are subordinate clauses in the language. Korean, Japanese and Chinese don't have suboredinate clauses. Rather, they turn phrases into a kind of adjectival phrases which foreigners find particularly difficult to master, even after speaking those languages for years.

I don't live in Thailand and have never lived there. However, I have learnt to read Thai and could manage it the first time I went to the country after learning to read. However, I have now forgotten it again and will need to learn it again. Those living in the country would not forget it. After all, Thai script is simple compared with Japanese and Chinese. I also try and order things using Thai and Thais are usually far friendlier as a result, especially in tourist areas where most other farang know nothing.

Just as a matter of general information, I can speak 8 languages, five of them to native-tongue level.

Congratulations! Five languages in native tongue level is unbelievable. But doesn't native mean native? i mean ,why do Austrians speak German with a funny accent?

Is that considered a native level? Or a Bavarian in the deepest forest?

Or Scotts order sex, if they want to drink six beers? You are my hero of the day.-

[DavidMavec]

My brother has been working in thailand for 2 years but he only speaks but not writes or read thai. I think foreigners can start by speaking first then slowly proceed to writing and reading. My chinese language is actually more difficult than thai !

I think reading should be learned from the get go if you want Thai people to understand you and it also makes self study a lot easier. The transliteration is really more of an obstacle than an aid.

[mrdome]

The best topics are taboo in Thai, unfortunately.

[Jackson86]

My brother has been working in thailand for 2 years but he only speaks but not writes or read thai. I think foreigners can start by speaking first then slowly proceed to writing and reading. My chinese language is actually more difficult than thai !

I think reading should be learned from the get go if you want Thai people to understand you and it also makes self study a lot easier. The transliteration is really more of an obstacle than an aid.

Saying is only 50%, eventually in the long term u still have to write and read. Foreigners face the same problem when learning chinese. They all die at the writing part. Even I as a chinese sometimes also forget certain words because I seldom use them.

[hellodolly]

OP see post number 2 and 8 then get off your high horse.

[transam]

Perhaps I am dyslexic, can't deal with my own language, what do you think about that OP ???????????????

Bet I get nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo answer from OP..............

[nottocus]

I would say the answer to the OPs inane question is that they probably haven't learnt it.

[frimu]

I can speak, read and write already, but still a long way to go to follow conversations. I guess, if you learn with full intensity, it takes one year.

If you take it more casual like me two to three years. It's not easy. That is true. And it is also true, that teachers are not so good in explaining the rules, because Thais think differently than Westerners in my opinion.

Lots of things in the language you have to get used to and repeat often to learn them. And I don't expect anyone to learn Thai, because it is difficult and without a certain talent for acquiring new languages a long process.

My girlfriend is now learning German (I'm from Switzerland) and it's fun teaching each other. :-)

Maybe that helps as a motivation for some to learn more of it.

[uptheos]

It must be very frustrating not being understood, OP.

[geronimo]

For most people, it's all a question of necessity. They can get by without it. Some on the other hand, embrace the language and the culture. It is only the latter that really know Thailand.

[DrTuner]

Lots of effort for limited reward.

[Fullstop]

Why can't foreigners in Thailand read and speak Thai?

Laziness and/or arrogance. Throw a little hypocrisy into the mix too if you wish. (Why don't these migrants learn English!!!)

Next question........

[NoshowJones]

It requires a lot of effort on our part.

Thailand makes it near impossible to ever become a citizen, we're not allowed to buy land, etc, etc, etc

Due to this most people will only regard themselves as temporary visitors so why bother learn a language that is only useful in a country where you're staying on a temporary basis.

Long term temporary or not, I don't see the point. I will never be here permanently and I'll move on at some time in the future at which point Thai becomes useless and I have less useless things to spend my time on.

Yes, I like this post, I can speak a little Thai, maybe only to ask for things, or say certain things. But I don't think I will ever be able to hold a conversation in Thai.

[sprq]

1) The script is a barrier as I learn languages by seeing the words in my head. Transliteration works for that, but inefficiently.

2) I find that Thais mostly have little to say in English that is interesting or particularly intelligent, so that doesn't encourage learning to converse in Thai.

3) Wherever you go in the English-speaking world, out in public, e.g. on a bus or in a restaurant, you constantly hear people saying idiotic and/or offensive things. The beauty of not understanding Thai and living here is that you don't understand all the nonsense people are talking and can just live in your own more intelligent world.

4) If I were to go to a language school or take a private teacher, which are the only ways I can learn languages, for the sixth or seventh time of trying to get a proper hold on Thai, it would cost me a lot of money which I don't particularly have available.

etc

etc

etc

[wileycoyote]

So true .I am as guilty .

I can speak but not write

[MobileContent]

Why on earth should I learn how to read and write Thai? May be to buy a newspaper to see all those advertisements written or who was last night popped off on the frontpage.

I speak fairly good Thai and Isaan according to my Thai staffs in Bangkok and family in Sakon nakhon. Besides I speak fluent Malay and Indonesian besides German and English and I am almost 50 years and for god's sake I am not learning another language in my life or learn how to write and read Thai, Chinese, Arabic or whatever.

Time is important for me for the next couple of years so I prefer to focus on making money for retirement and to allow my son to have a good eduction.

[NoshowJones]

I can never understand folks who live here a long time and don't even learn the basics. It makes life infinitely easier when you can give a taxi driver directions and when buying stuff etc. I hailed a tuk tuk outside panthip once and the driver tried the usual 200 baht patter. Noticing he was an isaan bloke i laughed and spoke to him with a bit of the dialect. He then grinned and dropped the price to the more usual 80 baht

I would have told him to get lost and get the next Tuk Tuk. I cannot except people of any race trying to do me.