Immigration vows strictness on retirement visa requirements

[ubonjoe]

Three off topic posts removed.

[Skint]

Hanuman2547, on 07 Dec 2013 - 03:31, said:

 

aguy30, on 07 Dec 2013 - 00:53, said:

No, I would not like details. No idea where the 800,000 sharing idea came from. Did you just make that up?

 

Actually I posted about sharing the 800,000 baht for two farangs back around Post #103.

 

I missed the relevance to a farang married to a Thai and the requirement is only 400,000 baht vs a single farang who is retired with a requirement of 800,000 baht.

One is marriage and the other is retirement. One has ties to Thailand the other has not.

[haroldcane]

I plan to bring my Chinese wife next year. She is 32 and I am on Retirement Extension. Does she need to have 800k in the bank? She is not over 50 yet so not eligible for retirement visa.

I suggest you take a wait and see attitude about this topic.

If they were to eliminate dependent extensions for retirees your wife would not qualify for an extension.

if she's only 32 she should work on a visa-B. if she has no income, you may support her & she gets a non-immi-o

for accompanying spouse: http://www.thaiembassy.org/hochiminh/en/services/2886/34923-Non-Immigrant-Visa-%22O%22---Accompanying-sp.html

[ubonjoe]

As I stated in my post she at this time is eligible to get an extension of stay as his dependent.

A multiple entry non-o visa would not be needed plus she would have to apply for it in China.

[thaijett]

I think this particular officer would be better spending his time going through his data base for all those who have no type of visa at all it appears there are 100s if not thousands of falangs who have overstayed by years and have never bothered to re-apply for a visa that is a hell of a lot 20,000 baht overstay fines as a falang on an extension of stay I contribute to the Thai economy every day by spending my well earned retirement money at the local shops/markets as well as paying for my garden to be taken care off.

Are you still here?

I thought you were going to Cambodia, Phillipines, wherever, or were you just pissing in the wind?

Still time to go, you have heard the saying, "talk the talk, & walk the walk"

[Maggusoil]

Thank you.

According to my most recent enquiries with the Thai Consulate in Sydney, I can apply for a Thai/Spouse visiting visa to see my 5yr old Thai daughter, for e.g. $225 for an multiple entry 12 month visa with no banking or income requirements needed.

The Thai Consulate staff maintain that the 400,000 quoted in the Phuket Gazette article was incorrect.

I had to pressure for this info over the phone. The information they kept referring me to on the website substantiates it.

Do not confuse a visa with an extensions of stay.

400,000 (or an income of 40,000 a month) is required for an extension of stay based on Thai wife or child, not for getting a visa based on the same reasons.

Yes, thank you.

The quoted article in this op was about visas and not extensions of stay, however this is also very interesting.

Actually it is about extensions. The wrong terminology was used in the article. You should note that it is about the Phuket immigration office. They don't do visas unless it is tied to getting an extension.

Thanks for clarifying that. The article needed a lot. Of clarification that is. Anyway its good to know these details.

[tropo]

Let's see how this turns out. It could be bye bye Thailand for my wife and I.

[Naam]

He is correct. You would not believe how many times calling an extension a visa has created confusion on this forum. Or how many times I have had to ask the question do you have a visa or an extension of stay from immigration.

using the definition of the word "visa" and the fact that my passport has a stamp on the "extension" page that says "retirement" we have a case where the arguing parties could agree to disagree.

Oxford Dictionary: "visa" = an endorsement on a passport indicating that the holder is allowed to enter, leave, or stay for a specified period of time in a country.

in other words an "extension of stay" is clearly a "visa" too.

of course nothwithstanding the fact your argument is valid. assisting somebody one has to know exactly what his status is and what the actual meaning in Thailand is.

[Maestro]

In spite of the definition in the Oxford dictionary, in spite of the fact that newspapers and even some immigration officers say retirement visa when they mean extension of stay for the reason of retirement, in spite of the use of visa extension on the website of the Immigration Bureau when extension of temporary stay is meant, a permission to stay and an extension of a permission to stay is never a visa. There is one web page on the immigration website where this is made clear, in the information published about the difference between the validity period of the visa on the one hand the the permitted period to stay in Thailand on the other hand:

What does the Visa Expiration Date Mean?

The visa expiration date is shown on the visa. Depending on the alien’s nationality, visas can be issued for any number of entries, from as little as one entry to as many as multiple (unlimited) entries, for the same purpose of travel.

• This generally means the visa is valid, or can be used from the date it is issued until the date it expires, for travel for the same purpose, when the visa is issued for multiple entry.
• This time period from the visa issuance date to visa expiration date as shown on the visa, is called visa validity. If you travel frequently as a tourist for example, with a multiple entry visa, you do not have to apply for a new visa each time you want to travel to Thailand.
• The visa validity is the length of time you are permitted to travel to a port-of-entry in Thailand to request permission of the immigration officer to permit you to enter Thailand. The visa does not guarantee entry to Thailand.
• The Expiration Date for the visa should not be confused with the authorized length of your stay in Thailand, given to you by the immigration officer at port-of-entry. The visa expiration date has nothing to do with the authorized length of your stay in Thailand for any given visit.
• Each time you arrive at the port-of-entry, an immigration officer decides whether to allow you to enter and how long you can stay. Only the immigration officer has the authority to permit you to enter Thailand.

Source: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/content/visaxpiredate.html

Regarding the stamps in the passport, a visa and a re-entry permit are the permission to travel to Thailand, the arrival stamp and the extension of stay stamp are the permission to stay in Thailand.

[Chonburiram]

Let's see how this turns out. It could be bye bye Thailand for my wife and I.

Why not use the same 800 000 ฿ for you both, just apply for your visas with a 3 month+ gap?

[Jay Sata]

Why would two farangs want to retire to Thailand?

There are much better places in the world offering better deals,living conditions/lifestyle and rights to own property.

Correct. Cannot understand farang couples who stay in Pattaya, pay 500000$ for a crap condo at dirty beach, deal with the yearly immigration issues, 90 day reports and such. When they can have a much safer, cheaper, better life in Malaysia with a proper visa, better cheaper condo/house, locals who can speak English and more friendly.

I agree with you 100%. Pattaya has to be one of the worst places in the world.

If you want a decent beach life/warm retirement what's wrong with Perth in Australia? Or cheaper still Panama? Vietnam is also a good bet.

[Bazt]

 

Why would two farangs want to retire to Thailand?

 

There are much better places in the world offering better deals,living conditions/lifestyle  and rights to own property.

 

 

Correct. Cannot understand farang couples who stay in Pattaya, pay 500000$ for a crap condo at dirty beach, deal with the yearly immigration issues, 90 day reports and such. When they can have a much safer, cheaper, better life in Malaysia with a proper visa, better cheaper condo/house, locals who can speak English and more friendly.

 

I agree with you 100%. Pattaya has to be one of the worst places in the world.

 

If you want a decent beach life/warm retirement what's wrong with Perth in Australia? Or cheaper still Panama? Vietnam is also a good bet.

So your saying Perth is a cheap alternative ?

[Jay Sata]

It depends on how you do your measuring and what you want out of retirement.

What is cheap?

Pattaya and Phuket are certainly not.

[tropo]

Let's see how this turns out. It could be bye bye Thailand for my wife and I.

Why not use the same 800 000 ฿ for you both, just apply for your visas with a 3 month+ gap?

I use the income method, but even if I used the 800,000 baht method, my wife is still way under 50 and not eligible for a retirement extension as an individual. If she was over 50, that would be a good plan.

If I'm reading these reports correctly, dependents under the age of 50 will not be eligible for retirement extensions. I did enough running around and jumping through hoops to stay here when I was still in my 40's... I'm not interested in doing it again. I may be forced to retire from Thailand, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I have 7 months before we're due for an extension. I'll stay tuned and hope for the best.

I was starting to feel a bit embarrassed that I never made the effort to learn Thai. In light of this news I'm glad I didn't as we can never be confident about our ability to stay here and they can change the rules at any time.

Their excuse that they are making this change because people are pretending to be married makes no sense. There will still be people doing that even at double the deposit requirement. How difficult would it be to do a check, as they do with married couples?

Edited December 7, 2013 by tropo

[Jingthing]

I agree with you 100%. Pattaya has to be one of the worst places in the world.

If you want a decent beach life/warm retirement what's wrong with Perth in Australia? Or cheaper still Panama? Vietnam is also a good bet.

Let's get real here.

Australia's financial qualification requirements would only fit a very small percentage of retirees on the planet. The vast majority of people retiring in Thailand wouldn't qualify. Obviously, if you're an Aussie you can.

Vietnam has NO retirement visa options at all.

Panama yes openly welcomes retirees with pensions and has rather low financial requirements. No personal opinion as I haven't been.

Pattaya is actually a fairly good place to retire. Not claiming it's the best but it certainly is not the worst. Many many advantages to living in Pattaya.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Jingthing

[haroldcane]

believe there was a mistake in thai visa: naam said on 2013-12-05 18:15:25: "yada yada hairsplit yakety-yak yawn yawwwwnnnnn"
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/686783-immigration-vows-strictness-on-retirement-visa-requirements/?p=7124642 #48
but here: Naam, on 05 Dec 2013 - 18:15, said: 'empty' s.a.? ubonjoe, on 05 Dec 2013 - 18:30, 15 min later said:
"He is correct. You would not believe how many times calling an extension a visa has created confusion on this forum.
Or how many times I have had to ask the question do you have a visa or an extension of stay from immigration" WHO is correct about WHAT?
perhaps ubonjoe means mgjackson69, on 05 Dec 2013 - 17:44, said: "...there is not such thing as a "Retirement Visa" or a "Marriage Visa"..."
oxford dictionary explains visa: "endorsement on a passport etc., esp. allowing entrance to or exit from a country" (no 'other' words)
within conditions: e.g. for what purpose, how long, sometimes even 'where', aso. in thailand (eg a non-immi-o) its pretty simple:
1. you need one VISA to ENTER thailand. could be 1+ days (transit) 15 or 30 days (on entry) 60 days tourist or most other visa at best 90 days (alien act)

2a) you need to leave within the allowed period OR 2b) you get an extension of the allowance before it expires.
3. would NOT call an extension a visa, because it does NOT allow you to enter thailand. you must leave first & every single visa gets invalid when you leave
you would need a complete new visa (or a multiple-entry or at least a re-entry permit which you must get before you leave!)
4. if you want to stay longer than 90 days you must leave the country & return (visa-run) OR you get an extension of your valid visa
an extension alone without a valid visa before is impossible & invalid. those people need at least BOTH: a visa PLUS one or several extensions
because these are NOT the same! only some thais say in their famous thainglish: same same but different (=similar) น้ำ=nam=water

As I stated in my post she at this time is eligible to get an extension of stay as his dependent.
A multiple entry non-o visa would not be needed plus she would have to apply for it in China.

but don't forget, she needs a visa first to enter thailand & which she can get extended later here

[Jay Sata]

Pattaya is actually a fairly good place to retire. Not claiming it's the best but it certainly is not the worst. Many many advantages to living in Pattaya.

You've got to be joking?

[Jingthing]

Pattaya is actually a fairly good place to retire. Not claiming it's the best but it certainly is not the worst. Many many advantages to living in Pattaya.

You've got to be joking?

Not at all. It's actually even getting more positive press in the expat retirement press in the U.S. Maybe you haven't been there lately. There are thousands of happy retirees in the Pattaya area and has become much more popular with Bangkok Thais as well.

[tropo]

It depends on how you do your measuring and what you want out of retirement.

What is cheap?

Pattaya and Phuket are certainly not.

They can be cheap or as expensive as you want them to be.... they cater to all budgets.

[tropo]

As I stated in my post she at this time is eligible to get an extension of stay as his dependent.

A multiple entry non-o visa would not be needed plus she would have to apply for it in China.

but don't forget, she needs a visa first to enter thailand & which she can get extended later here

Yes, my wife, as my dependent required a single entry non-O visa purchased from the Thai consulate in Vientiane.

[Maggusoil]

Why would two farangs want to retire to Thailand?

There are much better places in the world offering better deals,living conditions/lifestyle and rights to own property.

Correct. Cannot understand farang couples who stay in Pattaya, pay 500000$ for a crap condo at dirty beach, deal with the yearly immigration issues, 90 day reports and such. When they can have a much safer, cheaper, better life in Malaysia with a proper visa, better cheaper condo/house, locals who can speak English and more friendly.

I agree with you 100%. Pattaya has to be one of the worst places in the world.

If you want a decent beach life/warm retirement what's wrong with Perth in Australia? Or cheaper still Panama? Vietnam is also a good bet.

Perth? Panama? Surely that's a bit extreme. Vietnam, yes, that is a good alternative. There are all sorts of things available there, it is hard to source in Thai. There's also much more surf about six months of the year.

Perth? Is part of Her Majesty's system. Part of the Matrix. If you want to be a slave. Live in Australia.

I don't know about you, but a cheaper lifestyle is only one part of the experience here. The culture and the people are the main thing for me.

I also like the Philippines. There is much more surf but the food is an insult to my body. You move from the best food in the world to the worst.

Also if you are used to the friendliness of Thais and/ or Balinese for example, these places are very, very different. Very serious.

[Yme]

_{Why is a "married to a Thai" visa only requiring 400,000? Makes no sense that it should be 400,000 when two people are being supported. Why not 1,600,000 baht for a married farang?}

I assume that it's 400K because they know that you dump you finances into your Thai family and Thai extended family.

By the way, it's 400K for foreign men married to Thai women. A foreign woman married to a Thai guy gets a free ride. Now, how fair's that?

Interesting. If that's the case it would appear to breach Part 2, Section 30 of the Thai constitution

Part 2

Equality

Section 30. All persons are equal before the law and shall enjoy equal protection under the law.

Men and women shall enjoy equal rights.

Unjust discrimination against a person on the grounds of the difference in origin, race, language, sex, age, disability, physical or health condition, personal status, economic or social standing, religious belief, education or constitutionally political view, shall not be permitted.

Measures determined by the State in order to eliminate obstacle to or to promote persons’ ability to exercise their rights and liberties as other persons shall not be deemed as unjust discrimination under paragraph three.

[IAMSOBAD]

I can't wait until FORBES...INTERNATIONAL LIVING...MONEY MAGAZINE and other publications get our emails and write stories of how Thailand changed the rules and people go retire to a better place. These magazines have promoted Thailand and now I hope they denote it as a haven for scams.

[ubonjoe]

 

_{Why is a  "married to a Thai" visa only requiring 400,000? Makes no sense that it should be 400,000 when two people are being supported. Why not 1,600,000 baht for a married farang?}

 

I assume that it's 400K because they know that you dump you finances into your Thai family and Thai extended family. 

By the way, it's 400K for foreign men married to Thai women.  A foreign woman married to a Thai guy gets a free ride.  Now, how fair's that? 

 

 

 

Interesting. If that's the case it would appear to breach Part 2, Section 30 of the Thai constitution

 

Part 2

Equality

Section 30. All persons are equal before the law and shall enjoy equal protection under the law.

Men and women shall enjoy equal rights.

 

Unjust discrimination against a person on the grounds of the difference in origin, race, language, sex, age, disability, physical or health condition, personal status, economic or social standing, religious belief, education or constitutionally political view, shall not be permitted.

 

Measures determined by the State in order to eliminate obstacle to or to promote persons’ ability to exercise their rights and liberties as other persons shall not be deemed as unjust discrimination under paragraph three.

 

A challenge to the nationality act that gives foreign wives of Thai men almost instant citizenship was made on the same basis of the same clause of the 1997 constitution but was shot down by the court as not being discriminatory because it was based upon national security.

[haroldcane]

...Section 30 of the Thai constitution: Part 2 Equality

Section 30. All persons are equal before the law and shall enjoy equal protection under the law. Men and women shall enjoy equal rights.

Unjust discrimination against a person on the grounds of the difference in origin, race, language, sex, age, disability, physical or health condition, personal status, economic or social standing, religious belief, education or constitutionally political view, shall not be permitted.

Measures determined by the State in order to eliminate obstacle to or to promote persons’ ability to exercise their rights and liberties as other persons shall not be deemed as unjust discrimination under paragraph three.

A challenge to the nationality act that gives foreign wives of Thai men almost instant citizenship was made on the same basis of the same clause of the 1997 constitution but was shot down by the court as not being discriminatory because it was based upon national security.

even the different entrance fees for thais & farangs presumably are NOT based on difference in origin or economic standing, just "based upon national security"

[IAMSOBAD]

Anyone asked for wife's 800,000 yet?

[ubonjoe]

No reports of it yet.

[ubonjoe]

Clarification of rules here. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/687733-Immigration-clarifies-retirement-visa-rules