Racism against Filipinos - is there a legal limit?

[lemoncake]

I always appreciate when someone reminds to Filipinos where they come from... They obviously abuse and try to get to high salaries when working for private companies, so at least the Thai educational system teach them well :-)

Hate to say but i agree. I get Filipinos applying for job weekly and every single time, for some unknown reason they think they are worth double to what Thai get and yet no relevant skills

Keep in mind their salaries back home are half to what Thai get here(exchange rate)

Yes of course, Filipinos would be idiots if they work here when they can earn the same salary in the Philippines. What kind of idea you have, lemoncake.

Same is true with most foreigners working here (please take note I am referring to working foreigners). Unless they work here not for the salary but for beautiful Thai women, low cost of living or just a part of their adventures.

Please please please do tell what skill they poses that Thai do not and do tell who forces them to come here?

And you do not think being paid double to what they can get home is not enough? it should be 4 times?

[NoshowJones]

They accepted the wage so how can you complain about that ? They are only employed because they are cheaper and they are only getting the jobs because they are undercutting existing pathetic wages.

Parents don't want them because they don't speak English correctly. The kids learn naff all from them so why are they here ? Because they accepted the wage and the school doesn't want to pay more.

If they want the same pay then their English needs to be as good as a native speaker. It's not, lets not pretend.

I have got to be honest here. Most Philipino teachers are as near to a native English speaker as you will get. That is my experience, I have worked with them.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted. The thread is about racism. The OP describes a situation in which they are alleged to be discriminated against by a school. It includes both salary and housing in the claim of discrimination. It is not about their level of English, their qualification or the qualification of all Filipinos.

Please be aware that many, many non-native English speakers from a wide variety of countries are hired to work in Thailand. Most non-native speakers must have an English language proficiency test to get a Teacher's License and the non-immigrant B visa. Many non-native English speakers are hired to teach subjects other than English. Where I work, they teach science, math, physical education, health education and music. They have degrees in the relevant field.

They are paid less than a native speaker, even though they are not teaching English, only teaching IN English.

[DGIE]

Off-topic posts deleted. The thread is about racism. The OP describes a situation in which they are alleged to be discriminated against by a school. It includes both salary and housing in the claim of discrimination. It is not about their level of English, their qualification or the qualification of all Filipinos.

Please be aware that many, many non-native English speakers from a wide variety of countries are hired to work in Thailand. Most non-native speakers must have an English language proficiency test to get a Teacher's License and the non-immigrant B visa. Many non-native English speakers are hired to teach subjects other than English. Where I work, they teach science, math, physical education, health education and music. They have degrees in the relevant field.

They are paid less than a native speaker, even though they are not teaching English, only teaching IN English.

correct!

[gerryBScot]

There are undoubtedly many fine Filipino teachers working in Thailand, my wife included - dedicated, qualified, experienced, professional, real assets. There are also some dogs. But this is equally so with native speakers. Being born a native English speaker is most certainly not a qualification to be an English teacher.

Schools in Thailand, in my limited experience, treat people like trash - doesn't matter if they are Thais, Filipinos or whatever. They will do anything to save a penny. They will do anything if they think they can get away with it. Your average staff room here is hardly organised in the way it is in the so called developed world. Management here does not expect to be challenged and rarely is. So what the OP talks about is run of the mill day to day life in a Thai school.

[DGIE]

They accepted the wage so how can you complain about that ? They are only employed because they are cheaper and they are only getting the jobs because they are undercutting existing pathetic wages.

Parents don't want them because they don't speak English correctly. The kids learn naff all from them so why are they here ? Because they accepted the wage and the school doesn't want to pay more.

If they want the same pay then their English needs to be as good as a native speaker. It's not, lets not pretend.

I have got to be honest here. Most Philipino teachers are as near to a native English speaker as you will get. That is my experience, I have worked with them.

Watbenjamat school has more than 10 Filipinos. They are working a maximum of 20 hours a week. They receive about 50,000 Baht. If there is someone new and the load is 16 hours a week, he/she receives around 37,000Baht a month.

Watpassi has 6 Filipino teachers, only 1 receives 37,000Baht. all the rest receive about 50,000. There are around 90 Filipinos employed directly by the Ministry of Education. If you want a source, I can supply

[rgs2001uk]

Welcome to the Pinoy Love In.

Any post thats not PC or pro Pinoy will be deleted.

Suggest the OP learns the difference between racism and economics.

[lemoncake]

*Deleted post edited out*

I am sorry, but your post makes no sense.

They do not have any "special" or better developed skills than Thai, there only thing they have going for them is that they speak English.

While speaking English is desirable, it is hardly useful to an employer for a number of reasons, one being that they can not communicate with other staff, can not deal with external matters, they cannot communicate with suppliers of local customers.

They cost more money, because they require visa's and WP, their employment with company is not certain, as they can pack up and go or their visa or WP cancelled, not renewed.

Their work skills and education are no different to locals, just look at Philippines as a country, it is even bigger mess than Thailand.

Some Oz banks moved their call centers to Philippines and are slammed daily by complaints of terrible customer service and problems.

Yes you can tell me your wife or your friend or someone you know is good or hard working or whatever, but reality is they are worth just as much as local labor if not less, because they can only do limited assignments.

Their education is just as unrecognized in the world , as Thailand.

Can they ask higher salary? of course they can, if they can bring something useful to the table or something that is worth higher salary.

What can they do? well if they so skilled, they could stay in their own country and work there, thats an option, do not you think?

Am i now satisfied? With what? with my time being wasted weekly by Filipino who thinks they can come apply for a job with stated salary, but ask for double because they are from Philippines and being Filipino is about as much an excuse their use to justify it

No, i am not satisfied and everytime i call my bank with its call center in Manila, i am also not satisfied, why? because every single issue i raise gets lost, because i am always given wrong information and speaking to people with no clue about their job at all ie no different to dealing with Thai banks call center.

If you respond, please use bigger font, as reading your font is very difficult.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Scott

[thailandbeachisland]

Are we also going to pay Cambodian, Lao and Myanmar as much as westerners just because thy have the same qualification ??? Ridiculous !

[LEonard]

Unfortunately the corruption within the Philippine government causes the Filipino to have to travel the world just to support their families, this opens them up to exploitation and abuse, this is sad. The only other people you see this with is the Mexicans by the Americans. Why just the other day many pinoy's lost their lives in a bombing in the country of Yemen. These poor people are mere cannon fodder for abusive employers all over the world, they should be able to stay in their own country (which they love) and earns living wage to support their families and survive on.

But the Americans seem to use the country as a military base for unprovoked aggression against china, they care little about the people other brothels and strategic postering. I do not mean to go on a rant but this has been my observation, what the Philippines needs is a true filipina leader, one whose is all Filipino, not half Chinese. With a true sense of Filipino pride and nationalism, not ambitious opportunistic dreams of corruption and graft during their time in office. Rise up you mighty nation, for you can accomplish what you will, my heart goes out to the Philippine people, for the meek shall inherit the earth.

[pcgeekz05]

They accepted the wage so how can you complain about that ? They are only employed because they are cheaper and they are only getting the jobs because they are undercutting existing pathetic wages.

Parents don't want them because they don't speak English correctly. The kids learn naff all from them so why are they here ? Because they accepted the wage and the school doesn't want to pay more.

If they want the same pay then their English needs to be as good as a native speaker. It's not, lets not pretend.

hey dude! you're the perfect example of a freakin RACIST! who told you that parents don't want these Filipino teachers? 2 of my kids has a Filipino tutor and they are all good, correct english, nice accent and good grammar and good in spelling.

Racial discrimination is very rampant here in Thailand and let's also face the fact that some of the white people can't hardly spell, yeah we can speak english very well coz that's our native language. Please use your brain sometimes ok?

"The bottom line here is RESPECT!"

[thailandbeachisland]

Unfortunately the corruption within the Philippine government causes the Filipino to have to travel the world just to support their families, this opens them up to exploitation and abuse, this is sad. The only other people you see this with is the Mexicans by the Americans. Why just the other day many pinoy's lost their lives in a bombing in the country of Yemen. These poor people are mere cannon fodder for abusive employers all over the world, they should be able to stay in their own country (which they love) and earns living wage to support their families and survive on.

But the Americans seem to use the country as a military base for unprovoked aggression against china, they care little about the people other brothels and strategic postering. I do not mean to go on a rant but this has been my observation, what the Philippines needs is a true filipina leader, one whose is all Filipino, not half Chinese. With a true sense of Filipino pride and nationalism, not ambitious opportunistic dreams of corruption and graft during their time in office. Rise up you mighty nation, for you can accomplish what you will, my heart goes out to the Philippine people, for the meek shall inherit the earth.

Don't you think that people and countries get what they deserve ?

If they are not happy with their goverment they can make a revolution, it's not only for Muslim countries.

I feel nothing for countries and people who are not able to explain their goverment how it should be !

[Jasun]

As with most Asian countries, it is perfectly legal to discriminate on age, race and nationality in Thailand. A landlord can specify 'no x race' an employer can request 'must be under x years old' a government dept can insist 'only x country' may apply etc.

[Shancloudy]

I'm just hoping that those people who saying against Filipinos are so perfect . It proves to me that it takes time to earn respect from others. Sad but true.

Yes, some of you are true saying that my country is perfect for storms and landslides I'm just hoping that you'll never experience that now or someday because I don't want other people / other race to experience that.

[lemoncake]

I always appreciate when someone reminds to Filipinos where they come from... They obviously abuse and try to get to high salaries when working for private companies, so at least the Thai educational system teach them well :-)

Hate to say but i agree. I get Filipinos applying for job weekly and every single time, for some unknown reason they think they are worth double to what Thai get and yet no relevant skills

Keep in mind their salaries back home are half to what Thai get here(exchange rate)

another example of a perfect IDIOT , to tell you frankly dude, I have 7 filipino staff in my company and they are all good in english, they have skills especially communication, IT skills, office works etc. as you said "I get Filipinos applying for job weekly and every single time" so what business do you have? SUMTAM shop? wahahaha or are you selling local thai rum? even your thaivisa ID name sounds funny and looks like justine beiber gay as shit.

learn to RESPECT others as you might don't know what will going to happen tomorrow, be nice and act nice!

When you learn to spell somtam, you can then talk about skills, respect and perfect idiots

[lemoncake]

I'm just hoping that those people who saying against Filipinos are so perfect . It proves to me that it takes time to earn respect from others. Sad but true.

Yes, some of you are true saying that my country is perfect for storms and landslides I'm just hoping that you'll never experience that now or someday because I don't want other people / other race to experience that.

It has absolutely nothing to do with respect but simple reality check.

Filipino do not have "special " skills to offer over a Thai to justify higher salary .

[Shancloudy]

I'm just hoping that those people who saying against Filipinos are so perfect . It proves to me that it takes time to earn respect from others. Sad but true.

Yes, some of you are true saying that my country is perfect for storms and landslides I'm just hoping that you'll never experience that now or someday because I don't want other people / other race to experience that.

It has absolutely nothing to do with respect but simple reality check.

Filipino do not have "special " skills to offer over a Thai to justify higher salary .

Thank you so much for your very nice point of view.

[NoshowJones]

They accepted the wage so how can you complain about that ? They are only employed because they are cheaper and they are only getting the jobs because they are undercutting existing pathetic wages.

Parents don't want them because they don't speak English correctly. The kids learn naff all from them so why are they here ? Because they accepted the wage and the school doesn't want to pay more.

If they want the same pay then their English needs to be as good as a native speaker. It's not, lets not pretend.

I have got to be honest here. Most Philipino teachers are as near to a native English speaker as you will get. That is my experience, I have worked with them.

Watbenjamat school has more than 10 Filipinos. They are working a maximum of 20 hours a week. They receive about 50,000 Baht. If there is someone new and the load is 16 hours a week, he/she receives around 37,000Baht a month.

Watpassi has 6 Filipino teachers, only 1 receives 37,000Baht. all the rest receive about 50,000. There are around 90 Filipinos employed directly by the Ministry of Education. If you want a source, I can supply

That's interesting Dgie.

[Scott]

There are a number of occupations where Thailand has a shortage of workers. In education, we have Filipino teachers who teach science and math (as well as other subjects). The schools that I am involved with have a very hard time finding Thai science and math teachers for the upper grades. The gap is filled in by Filipino teachers. The Filipino teachers are very well qualified and the last one that left (because of mistreatment by the director), was asked to please return by the same director who treated her with distain.

The level of English varies greatly, but before we apply for a non-B visa or work permit, they must have a TOEIC and it must be over 650. None of them teach English (as a subject), but they do teach in English.

Do parents complain? Yes. They are told that they have a native English speaker for the subject of English language, however, if they wish for their child to learn chemistry, physics or math, they will have to a non-native speaker.

If Filipino workers were not good, why would a school or employer hire them? Thailand is under no obligation to hire them.

In general, they are well educated, they are compliant with the managerial whims of the day, they speak English and they are good value for money.

[bangon04]

As with most Asian countries, it is perfectly legal to discriminate on age, race and nationality in Thailand. A landlord can specify 'no x race' an employer can request 'must be under x years old' a government dept can insist 'only x country' may apply etc.

In the Philippines you can also discriminate by gender and physical appearance in the job market. Many employers there recruit only attractive females under the age or 25 and many females over 30 are unemployable. So overseas menial work is one of the few options they have left. Let us not pretend that discrimination comes as a shock to Filipinos - they are well used to it in their own country.

As a previous poster has pointed out, the "government" of the Phils (ie the rich Chinese families who own most of it) are quite happy to rely on the remittances from OFWs (overseas workers) who make up nearly 20 per cent of the economy. Therefore they feel no obligation or urgency to improve the employment market inside the country. They are quite happy for the overseas workers to provide social welfare for the poor people, so the rich Chinese families can continue to plunder the country.

Sound familiar to TV readers, any of this?

Edited December 8, 2013 by bangon04

[zeichen]

"If Filipino workers were not good, why would a school or employer hire them? Thailand is under no obligation to hire them.

They are hired 1 because most Thai managers and hiring staff don't have strong enough English to know how good or bad their spoken ability is. 2. They are a tight group and support each other getting jobs. 3. They are kept because they are very hard working and dedicated to the job, school, and students. 4. They are generally very moral and humble and fit in with the Thai system quite well. None of which have anything to do with ability. 5. Thailand is under obligation to fill the positions and will find anyone they can for the lowest amount. 6. Thai schools typically think the best teacher is the one that is obedient, on time, prepared, and always visible in the office. They don't tend to understand the importance or focus on quality of instruction, interactive material, encouraging critical thinking, and building the next generation of leaders.

As far as the TOEIC scores. TOEIC is for business English and has nothing to do with academic English and is filled with a lot of jargon and idioms. Unless the test has changed it also doesn't contain an oral section to test spoken ability. So it isn't really the best tool for assessment.

"In general, they are well educated, they are compliant with the managerial whims of the day, they speak English and they are good value for money. "

Some post have been deleted containing facts on the Filipino education system so perhaps continuing the well educated argument isn't really the best since it cannot be proven and isn't related to racism.

In my opinion all teachers in Thailand should be paid the same and they should have higher standards for hiring.

Suggesting that Filipinos are higher qualified or better than Thais is as equally racist as those stating that Filipinos have no business being here.

I have worked with some very talented Filipino teachers who weren't only fluent in English but were also very knoweldgable of their subject and effective teaching practices. I have also worked with teachers from many other countries including Thais that were equally impressive. It really doesn;t matter which nationality you are, but it does ,,matter what your skill set is and how well you can apply it to the classroom.

The higherarchy of salary and prestige needs to be focused on ability and not nationality. It is not a Thai problem it is a global problem and will persist until those in power and those in support stand together and identify the goals of education in each country and decide what systems and practices can help them the best.

"My way is not the only right way" should be in everyone's heart.

[Scott]

I think you misunderstand a few things. There are good Thai English speakers, some are very, very good. As a general rule, you will not find them working in a school for a very small salary. My partner is Thai, he has a master's degree and his English is excellent. He earns 60,000 baht per month.

I also know a few people who are good in science and math (actually most of these are people whose background is engineering), again they are can earn much more in a job other than teaching.

This is the gap that is filled by the Filipino teachers.

With regard to whether or not they are well educated, that would be a topic for an entirely different topic. They have a university degree that is recognized by Thailand. If they have a Teacher's License from the Philippines, they will easily get a Teacher's License in Thailand. The TOEIC, like any test, has it's limitations.

I am speaking in generalizations. I have worked with some fantastic Filipinos and a few that were a major headache. Overall, my experience has been positive.

[Mudcrab]

Are we also going to pay Cambodian, Lao and Myanmar as much as westerners just because thy have the same qualification ??? Ridiculous !

I've been reading through this topic from the start to this point, but this post takes the cake.

I note you didn't nominate a particular occupation.

Are you saying that a westerner deserves to be paid more simply by virtue of being a westerner? based on what - skin colour?assumed cultural superiority?

Please elaborate as I am curious as to your thought process in posting this.

[Scott]

Are we also going to pay Cambodian, Lao and Myanmar as much as westerners just because thy have the same qualification ??? Ridiculous !

I've been reading through this topic from the start to this point, but this post takes the cake.

I note you didn't nominate a particular occupation.

Are you saying that a westerner deserves to be paid more simply by virtue of being a westerner? based on what - skin colour?assumed cultural superiority?

Please elaborate as I am curious as to your thought process in posting this.

Well at least this gets us to the point of what racism really is.

[DGIE]

They accepted the wage so how can you complain about that ? They are only employed because they are cheaper and they are only getting the jobs because they are undercutting existing pathetic wages.

Parents don't want them because they don't speak English correctly. The kids learn naff all from them so why are they here ? Because they accepted the wage and the school doesn't want to pay more.

If they want the same pay then their English needs to be as good as a native speaker. It's not, lets not pretend.

I have got to be honest here. Most Philipino teachers are as near to a native English speaker as you will get. That is my experience, I have worked with them.

Watbenjamat school has more than 10 Filipinos. They are working a maximum of 20 hours a week. They receive about 50,000 Baht. If there is someone new and the load is 16 hours a week, he/she receives around 37,000Baht a month.

Watpassi has 6 Filipino teachers, only 1 receives 37,000Baht. all the rest receive about 50,000. There are around 90 Filipinos employed directly by the Ministry of Education. If you want a source, I can supply

That's interesting Dgie.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned the name of few schools although there are still some not mentioned here, so that people who don't believe can just go and see these schools and ask.

Edited December 8, 2013 by DGIE

[SlyAnimal]

I wanted to post in this thread yesterday, but was out and about with my gf, and only had time to read many of the posts. However we had a pretty in depth discussion of our perspectives around Filipino teachers in Thailand. We ended up at the following conclusions:

Why do Filipino teachers receive a lower salary and are asked to do more work than westerners?

--They accept the salary and working conditions.

Why do they accept a low salary & poor working conditions?

--If they don't accept the salary/conditions, there are plenty of other Filipino teachers who will replace them.

Why are there so many Filipinos willing to work for a low salary and low wages?

--The wages are higher than in The Philippines

--The working conditions / work load is similar to in The Philippines.

The situation is a little different for western teachers, whereby they could earn more money in their home countries, in better working conditions, but they would also have a much higher workload and cost of living. So the main reason which many Western teachers accept 30k-40k is because they balance out poor working conditions with a lower workload and balance lower wages against a lower cost of living.

Western teachers then receive a higher salary and better working conditions, because they won't accept anything less. If Thai schools could hire "Farang" for 18,000 THB per month, with 24+ contact hours, they would, but Westerners simply won't accept it. This probably applies to 90%+ of westerners, and as a result the 10% who would accept less, are still initially given higher working conditions / salaries than Filipino teachers.

However, the reverse applies to Filipino teachers, whereby 90% of teachers accept lower salaries and poor working conditions. As a result, if 10% of Filipinos refuse to accept low salaries and poor working conditions, they can easily be replaced with someone from the 90% who will accept those conditions.

Thai teachers are in the same boat, they can be offered low salaries and poor working conditions, but because they are easily replaced by the 90% who will accept these conditions, they don't have much bargaining power.

Therefore, the racism against Filipino teachers, isn't because of their race, it's because they, as a group, choose to accept it.

Regarding racism, Thai people aren't being racist towards Filipinos, and indeed aren't even necessarily being racist in a bad sense (Bear with me here, as I know that's a pretty bold comment).

Racism would generally be defined as "Discrimination against a person or people based on race". With discrimination usually being a negative effect on people, in comparison to the social "norms" rather than a positive effect.

And to the best of my knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong, Thai people don't treat Filipinos any worse than what they would treat people from their own country. Therefore, they aren't really being racist at all.

The racism which Thai people/schools participate in, is the preference for Caucasians. Whereby Caucasians receive higher salaries and better working conditions than members of other races. However is this really racism? As Caucasians are a minority, so they are receiving something better than the rest of society (As opposed to the rest of Thai society receiving something worse).

Also when teaching English, there is definitely a strong case as to why a Caucasian is perceived as being a Native English Speaker, and that as a Native English speaker they should (Assuming all else is equal) be a better English teacher than most Filipino teachers. Therefore there is a justification for higher salaries and preferential treatment.

Edited December 8, 2013 by SlyAnimal
Added racism definition

[DGIE]

I'm just hoping that those people who saying against Filipinos are so perfect . It proves to me that it takes time to earn respect from others. Sad but true.

Yes, some of you are true saying that my country is perfect for storms and landslides I'm just hoping that you'll never experience that now or someday because I don't want other people / other race to experience that.

It has absolutely nothing to do with respect but simple reality check.

Filipino do not have "special " skills to offer over a Thai to justify higher salary .

First of all, are you Thai? If you are, tell the Ministry of Education (who has employed more than 90 Filipino teachers and almost equal number of Chinese to teach in English Program), school directors who employ Filipinos about your justification.

Show them your skill of teaching so you can convince them they are wrong in choosing Filipino teachers and it should be you to fill those positions.

I think you are just jealous, envious, conceited and selfish that you don't want others to be in their work.

[DGIE]

Are we also going to pay Cambodian, Lao and Myanmar as much as westerners just because thy have the same qualification ??? Ridiculous !

I've been reading through this topic from the start to this point, but this post takes the cake.

I note you didn't nominate a particular occupation.

Are you saying that a westerner deserves to be paid more simply by virtue of being a westerner? based on what - skin colour?assumed cultural superiority?

Please elaborate as I am curious as to your thought process in posting this.

Nice questions Mudcrab. My salute goes to you!

But since bosses have the right to choose staffs or employees, although supposed to be wrong practice, those countries mentioned above will be a victim of unfairness

Edited December 8, 2013 by DGIE

[SlyAnimal]

I'm just hoping that those people who saying against Filipinos are so perfect . It proves to me that it takes time to earn respect from others. Sad but true.

Yes, some of you are true saying that my country is perfect for storms and landslides I'm just hoping that you'll never experience that now or someday because I don't want other people / other race to experience that.

It has absolutely nothing to do with respect but simple reality check.

Filipino do not have "special " skills to offer over a Thai to justify higher salary .

Filipinos generally aren't receiving more than Thai employees.

e.g. A Thai permanent government employee is usually paid 15,000+, which increases with experience and managerial positions. Senior staff are usually earning 40,000-50,000 by the time they are ready to retire, possibly more if they are a head of department or similar.

Filipino teachers are usually employed for around 18,000, give or take a little depending on the school. Possible raises over time, but these would be at the discretion of the school.

Short term the Filipino package is better, long term the Thai package is better. If I could choose from either, I don't know which I'd choose.... short term gains vs long term security/gains, if I was a Thai person I'd choose the long term package, but if I was Filipino I'd probably choose the 18,000, and work on the basis that when I have more experience, I'd move to a better paying job.

These figures are based on what my school pays. I know that there are quite a few schools who pay Filipinos in the 20,000 - 30,000 bracket (And some who pay more), many of which are looking for either a cheap NES or a very good Non-NES teacher, and they then decide after they've finished interviewing candidates.

[lemoncake]

I'm just hoping that those people who saying against Filipinos are so perfect . It proves to me that it takes time to earn respect from others. Sad but true.

Yes, some of you are true saying that my country is perfect for storms and landslides I'm just hoping that you'll never experience that now or someday because I don't want other people / other race to experience that.

It has absolutely nothing to do with respect but simple reality check.

Filipino do not have "special " skills to offer over a Thai to justify higher salary .

First of all, are you Thai? If you are, tell the Ministry of Education (who has employed more than 90 Filipino teachers and almost equal number of Chinese to teach in English Program), school directors who employ Filipinos about your justification.

Show them your skill of teaching so you can convince them they are wrong in choosing Filipino teachers and it should be you to fill those positions.

I think you are just jealous, envious, conceited and selfish that you don't want others to be in their work.

Yes i must be all of the above and hence why i clearly said i employ people ie have a business and i must be Thai, this is why i call my bank in Australia

You would not be Filipino by any chance? Lack of attention paying is a trait

Edited December 8, 2013 by lemoncake