Labour Government’s Bold Claim to “honesty with voters” Has Unraveled Quickly

[sjaak327]

Second, I am a democrat who accepts the vote of the majority

Actually, the majority chose not to vote for Yingluck. PT won a majority in parliament from less than 50% of cast votes. She has, therefore, never represented the majority.

She certainly did represent a clear majority. The 5 coalition parties had over 53% of the votes in both the constituenty and party list votes. These figures gave the coalition 60% of seats in parliament, with 53% for PT alone. I don't understand why people are making claims that can easily be refuted.

[Thaddeus]

Second, I am a democrat who accepts the vote of the majority

Actually, the majority chose not to vote for Yingluck. PT won a majority in parliament from less than 50% of cast votes. She has, therefore, never represented the majority.

She certainly did represent a clear majority. The 5 coalition parties had over 53% of the votes in both the constituenty and party list votes. These figures gave the coalition 60% of seats in parliament, with 53% for PT alone. I don't understand why people are making claims that can easily be refuted.

No one disputes that PTP have the most seats in Parliament.

But anyone claiming they have "the majority of Thai people" voting for them is patently wrong.

Out of 45 million eligible voters, 16 million voted for them, meaning 29 million didn't.

[Robby nz]

The reds keep ranting on (copy and paste) about how PT cant lose the next election and how the Dems have never won an election in 20 years but they seem to have forgotten that the Dems have won 3 out of the last 4 by-election and the BKK mayoral election.

It should be noted that the last by-election they won, Don Muang, was won by a swing from PT (safe seat, they thought) by more than 12% and big sister only won her safe seat by a reduced majority.

Then we have the 17 million who did not vote in the last general election, a fair number of them no doubt because the idiot yellow leadership told their followers not to vote, that wont happen again.

There was only 4 million difference between the number of votes PT and the Dems got last time.

Given all of the above and if the Dems were to be allowed to campaign in the north and northeast without being intimidated and hounded out by the reds then that wont be to difficult to get back

But anyway it might not matter the constitution court has still to rule on the 2.2 billion fiasco and that could easily end up with PT being banned.

Then as has already been pointed out there is the other case before the courts that could easily see all PT MP's given a 5 year ban.

[sjaak327]

Second, I am a democrat who accepts the vote of the majority

Actually, the majority chose not to vote for Yingluck. PT won a majority in parliament from less than 50% of cast votes. She has, therefore, never represented the majority.

She certainly did represent a clear majority. The 5 coalition parties had over 53% of the votes in both the constituenty and party list votes. These figures gave the coalition 60% of seats in parliament, with 53% for PT alone. I don't understand why people are making claims that can easily be refuted.

No one disputes that PTP have the most seats in Parliament.

But anyone claiming they have "the majority of Thai people" voting for them is patently wrong.

Out of 45 million eligible voters, 16 million voted for them, meaning 29 million didn't.

That doesn't change the fact that Yingluck's government did have over 53% of valid votes cast. Which is a majority. The trick of including all eligible voters into the count is of course wrong, people who don't care to show up, never count.

Not sure why people on here always try and make that point, why would we need to include people who never showed up into the discussion, it's not like we have clear knowledge about what these people want or would have voted..

[rogerdee123]

Second, I am a democrat who accepts the vote of the majority

Actually, the majority chose not to vote for Yingluck. PT won a majority in parliament from less than 50% of cast votes. She has, therefore, never represented the majority.

She certainly did represent a clear majority. The 5 coalition parties had over 53% of the votes in both the constituenty and party list votes. These figures gave the coalition 60% of seats in parliament, with 53% for PT alone. I don't understand why people are making claims that can easily be refuted.

The reference is to what percentage (of voters not population) actually VOTED for PTP .. not how many parties (which were not PTP and were not representing Yingluck) PTP later brought into their coalition thru horse trading ministerial and other lucrative positions.

[mjj]

I really seem to be missing something here. I agree with most of the criticism aimed at YL, but Suttep and Abhisit were just as bad.

Go to Abhisit's wiki page and you will read that Thailand was declared 'not free' during AV reign as PM due to so much censorship, he gave his father a high end job and had countless cases of corruption against him. It's the same with Suttep, so I don't get why YL is so hated on here, she and her brother are just the same as opposition.

Also with people so adamant that Thaksin should go to prison. Nobody with money and power goes to prison in Thailand, so why is TS different?

Edited December 10, 2013 by mjj

[Bluespunk]

"Tearfully, she urged protesters not to blame her Shinawatra family, saying "I have retreated so much that I don't know how to retreat any further.""

Yes you do.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Bluespunk

[sjaak327]

Second, I am a democrat who accepts the vote of the majority

Actually, the majority chose not to vote for Yingluck. PT won a majority in parliament from less than 50% of cast votes. She has, therefore, never represented the majority.

She certainly did represent a clear majority. The 5 coalition parties had over 53% of the votes in both the constituenty and party list votes. These figures gave the coalition 60% of seats in parliament, with 53% for PT alone. I don't understand why people are making claims that can easily be refuted.

The reference is to what percentage (of voters not population) actually VOTED for PTP .. not how many parties (which were not PTP and were not representing Yingluck) PTP later brought into their coalition thru horse trading ministerial and other lucrative positions.

No, the electoral mandate of any government is always measured by the number of votes and seats they have gained. That is of course also the basis on which they can govern. In Yingluck's case that incudes the 4 coalition partners. That technically speaking PT could have governed alone (based on their 265 seats) is not relevant.

It is funny that people even try to make the argument, PT received 48% of party list votes and 44% of constituenty votes, far far more than the democrats and any other party.

[Baerboxer]

What ever you think about her politics, one thing should be clear: Ms. Yingluck IS the democratically elected PM of Thailand. Whether she, her brother, her party bought the votes does not matter in first place. if the VOTERS can be bought, it is a voters problem. If the VOTERS accept that the government rips them off, it is the VOTERS problem.

And it is the problem of the opposition parties when they can not reach out to the voters and make it clear to them that they have a better choice. Hard work is what the opposition should invest in order to inform the voters about their ideas and make sure that voters understand that they would be better off with voting for them.

That is democracy. Each democratic country has the government it deserves.

A "peoples council" as Mr. Suthep seeks to form is not what democracy is about. A "peoples council" is just another form of dictatorship by people who think that they know better than the majority about what is best for a country. The best example of such "peoples council" can be found in the communist countries of the world.

You are correct at the end of your first paragraph. The voters are completely pissed off at a corrupt puppet government controlled by a crook that's totally mismanaged whilst ripping them off.

Many protesters are not supporters of Suthep per se, or his people's council. But, the ones I know are fed up with the lying, arrogant contempt and thieving of the Shin clan. A lot voted for PTP because they expected good management and policies to benefit the whole country. Now they've woken up they want this lot out and if the facts do come out expect some retribution calls too.

[Bernard Flint]

What ever you think about her politics, one thing should be clear: Ms. Yingluck IS the democratically elected PM of Thailand. Whether she, her brother, her party bought the votes does not matter in first place. if the VOTERS can be bought, it is a voters problem. If the VOTERS accept that the government rips them off, it is the VOTERS problem.

And it is the problem of the opposition parties when they can not reach out to the voters and make it clear to them that they have a better choice. Hard work is what the opposition should invest in order to inform the voters about their ideas and make sure that voters understand that they would be better off with voting for them.

That is democracy. Each democratic country has the government it deserves.

A "peoples council" as Mr. Suthep seeks to form is not what democracy is about. A "peoples council" is just another form of dictatorship by people who think that they know better than the majority about what is best for a country. The best example of such "peoples council" can be found in the communist countries of the world.

Sir

Bravo to you

The first sensible post,that sums up what many think,without resorting to vile comments.If non thais on here,think that one government is better than the other, u suggest u go to the nearest shrink

[whybother]

I really seem to be missing something here. I agree with most of the criticism aimed at YL, but Suttep and Abhisit were just as bad.

Go to Abhisit's wiki page and you will read that Thailand was declared 'not free' during AV reign as PM due to so much censorship, he gave his father a high end job and had countless cases of corruption against him. It's the same with Suttep, so I don't get why YL is so hated on here, she and her brother are just the same as opposition.

Also with people so adamant that Thaksin should go to prison. Nobody with money and power goes to prison in Thailand, so why is TS different?

What high end job did Abhisit give his father?

[ginjag]

I really seem to be missing something here. I agree with most of the criticism aimed at YL, but Suttep and Abhisit were just as bad.

Go to Abhisit's wiki page and you will read that Thailand was declared 'not free' during AV reign as PM due to so much censorship, he gave his father a high end job and had countless cases of corruption against him. It's the same with Suttep, so I don't get why YL is so hated on here, she and her brother are just the same as opposition.

Also with people so adamant that Thaksin should go to prison. Nobody with money and power goes to prison in Thailand, so why is TS different?

There are always some irregularities, Kung A-Kung S and the rest BUT don't compare --You don't see why the P.M. is so hated, FAMILY RELATED-sorry you cannot see wood for trees.

Abuse of power as the P.M.is different from other hi so crimes. I guess you think that Khun Thaksin should go free, just because others escape sentences ???

Oh fine for democracy.

Talking of censorship--Thaksin GAGGED the media. YOU FORGET-when it suits. sorry your weighing scales need adjusting, call the trading standards for that.

[waza]

Its amazing how many gullible posters bought Yingluck blatant publicity stunt designed to garner sympathy..........

[Baerboxer]

Who writes this crap for AFP - Amsterdam, one of his ghost writers or the ice cream gang ?

This lot are worse than the BBC who rely on dick head.

Thaksin's enduring popularity - puke! Thaksin champion of the working class - puke!

110k my arse! My missus reckons between 250-500k and her videos show masses of people.

[mjj]

I really seem to be missing something here. I agree with most of the criticism aimed at YL, but Suttep and Abhisit were just as bad.

Go to Abhisit's wiki page and you will read that Thailand was declared 'not free' during AV reign as PM due to so much censorship, he gave his father a high end job and had countless cases of corruption against him. It's the same with Suttep, so I don't get why YL is so hated on here, she and her brother are just the same as opposition.

Also with people so adamant that Thaksin should go to prison. Nobody with money and power goes to prison in Thailand, so why is TS different?

What high end job did Abhisit give his father?

Director of Charoen Pokphand Foods, Thailand's largest agribusiness firm and part of the Charoen Pokphand Group.

[connda]

Huh? Guess I haven't read the news for a few days.

[ratcatcher]

She must have a supply of fresh onions stacked somewhere in her dress.

When I saw this photo, it reminded me of an old Dylan song, "Just like a woman".

"This Baby can't be blessed

Till she finally sees that she's like all the rest

With her fog, her amphetamine and her pearls

She takes just like a woman, yes she does

She makes love just like a woman, yes she does

And she aches just like a woman

But she breaks just like a little girl."

With apologies to R.Zimmerman

Edited December 10, 2013 by ratcatcher

[brewsterbudgen]

No one disputes that PTP have the most seats in Parliament.

But anyone claiming they have "the majority of Thai people" voting for them is patently wrong.

Out of 45 million eligible voters, 16 million voted for them, meaning 29 million didn't.

Do you even understand how democracy works? I didn't think so.

[Jip99]

\Actually, the majority chose not to vote for Yingluck. PT won a majority in parliament from less than 50% of cast votes. She has, therefore, never represented the majority.

She certainly did represent a clear majority. The 5 coalition parties had over 53% of the votes in both the constituenty and party list votes. These figures gave the coalition 60% of seats in parliament, with 53% for PT alone. I don't understand why people are making claims that can easily be refuted.

The reference is to what percentage (of voters not population) actually VOTED for PTP .. not how many parties (which were not PTP and were not representing Yingluck) PTP later brought into their coalition thru horse trading ministerial and other lucrative positions.

It is funny that people even try to make the argument, PT received 48% of party list votes and 44% of constituenty votes, far far more than the democrats and any other party.

Do you ever ask yourself the question........WHY ?

Two ways in which the gap between PTP and the Democrats can be overhauled:-

1. Genuinely, 100% NO vote buying and

2. IQ testing for all voters. Those scoring less than 50 are disqualified.

I am not saying that democracy should be dependent on intelligence but having a vote must surely carry a degree of responsibility.

[AloisAmrein]

Incredible what Suthep and his right-wingers are demanding: an elected government to step down and refusing new elections. Never seen this in any democratic country in the West. His so-called "people council" will mainly consist of himself and his fellows, to contrary of people's power, preparing for dictatorship and maybe military coup as well. Thailand has dark years ahead.

[mjj]

I really seem to be missing something here. I agree with most of the criticism aimed at YL, but Suttep and Abhisit were just as bad.

Go to Abhisit's wiki page and you will read that Thailand was declared 'not free' during AV reign as PM due to so much censorship, he gave his father a high end job and had countless cases of corruption against him. It's the same with Suttep, so I don't get why YL is so hated on here, she and her brother are just the same as opposition.

Also with people so adamant that Thaksin should go to prison. Nobody with money and power goes to prison in Thailand, so why is TS different?

There are always some irregularities, Kung A-Kung S and the rest BUT don't compare --You don't see why the P.M. is so hated, FAMILY RELATED-sorry you cannot see wood for trees.

Abuse of power as the P.M.is different from other hi so crimes. I guess you think that Khun Thaksin should go free, just because others escape sentences ???

Oh fine for democracy.

Talking of censorship--Thaksin GAGGED the media. YOU FORGET-when it suits. sorry your weighing scales need adjusting, call the trading standards for that.

I've been posting on a few of these threads asking questions and every time I get a reply it is surly with personal assumptions being made. I've even been told to have an adulterous affair with the ex-PM!!

Why can't many of the anti-YL answer is a polite way and debate???

[worgeordie]

Yes ,she will have to stay on for the time being,as I suspect

a lot of paper shredding and burning to get done, the public

must never know whats really been going on.

regards Worgeordie

[whybother]

I really seem to be missing something here. I agree with most of the criticism aimed at YL, but Suttep and Abhisit were just as bad.

Go to Abhisit's wiki page and you will read that Thailand was declared 'not free' during AV reign as PM due to so much censorship, he gave his father a high end job and had countless cases of corruption against him. It's the same with Suttep, so I don't get why YL is so hated on here, she and her brother are just the same as opposition.

Also with people so adamant that Thaksin should go to prison. Nobody with money and power goes to prison in Thailand, so why is TS different?

What high end job did Abhisit give his father?

Director of Charoen Pokphand Foods, Thailand's largest agribusiness firm and part of the Charoen Pokphand Group.

Athasit was a director of CP in 2007 according to CPs 2007 Annual report.

http://www.cpfworldwide.com/elctfl/iranr/anrdwlen5.pdf

Don't believe everything you read in wiki.

[stickyrice2000]

Others may think it's a sign of weakness. Personally, she has done her best already with this big of a responsibility. If I have to choose for a prime minister, I want someone who has a heart and cry like a human. I definitely would not want a barbaric type like Mr. Suthep.

[waza]

Others may think it's a sign of weakness. Personally, she has done her best already with this big of a responsibility. If I have to choose for a prime minister, I want someone who has a heart and cry like a human. I definitely would not want a barbaric type like Mr. Suthep.

even if they are crocodile tears?

[ratcatcher]

I really seem to be missing something here. I agree with most of the criticism aimed at YL, but Suttep and Abhisit were just as bad.

Go to Abhisit's wiki page and you will read that Thailand was declared 'not free' during AV reign as PM due to so much censorship, he gave his father a high end job and had countless cases of corruption against him. It's the same with Suttep, so I don't get why YL is so hated on here, she and her brother are just the same as opposition.

Also with people so adamant that Thaksin should go to prison. Nobody with money and power goes to prison in Thailand, so why is TS different?

What high end job did Abhisit give his father?

Director of Charoen Pokphand Foods, Thailand's largest agribusiness firm and part of the Charoen Pokphand Group.

I hardly think that Mark was particularly influential in getting his father Athasit an independent directorship with CP Foods.

Dr. Athasit, FRCP, is highly educated and a former president of Mahidol, so it's not like he was looking for a job. Is it?.

[HerbalEd]

I'm no fan of Yingluck and I'm happy to see her go. However, I also don't want to see a non-elected "people's council" running the country ... that is not democracy, nor is it in the constitution. Therefore, I prefer the lesser of two evils ... i.e., she stays in position as caretaker PM until the elections, which will be here soon enough.

Edited December 10, 2013 by HerbalEd

[stickyrice2000]

Others may think it's a sign of weakness. Personally, she has done her best already with this big of a responsibility. If I have to choose for a prime minister, I want someone who has a heart and cry like a human. I definitely would not want a barbaric type like Mr. Suthep.

even if they are crocodile tears?

Yinglucks tears.jpg

Waza, don't let your decision of who you support clouded your heart. Beside many things that you disagree with, this woman has managed this country with her best ability. She deserves better.

[DDuval]

can somebody please explain to me in a nice way why so many foreigners got such strong views about yellow or red as we are not Thai and it dosent concern us?..In my thinking as long as the girls are available for us older men does it really make a difference?

[cdnvic]

Please calm down a bit everyone. Some inflammatory comments went in the trash.