Indian Supreme Court makes homosexuality a criminal offence

[Jingthing]

Quote:

LeCharivari:

In other words, and despite all the hype, there was NO evidence presented that there has been any "blatant oppression against our brothers and sisters, the GLBT people of India" at all.

End quote.

The level of ignorance in this post from forum member LeCharivari is mind blowing. Or is this some inside joke that im not getting?

There are lots of posts from various users that i disagree with. But this now is reaching whole new hights.

The forum member LeCharivari is capable of forming a full sentence in English. Often confusing, long sentences, filled with quotes, and then more quotes in italics, that make reading, and trying to follow the train of thought difficult for me..

But this post now!? What is this?

Is this last post post regarding gay peoples rights in India some deep sarcasm, that im unable to grasp, or is it rambling of very, very confused mind? I cant tell any more.

No, it is what it is. Not an in joke. I agree its quite bizarre.

[Scott]

When you are fighting both the public opinion and the law, there is a problem. The law should be the place where people can get justice and protection. In India, it appears they have neither.

[LeCharivari]

Some here appear to have difficulty reading what has actually been written through the haze and steam.

Neither I nor the Indian Judges said or even suggested that there was no oppression or discrimination against LGBT in India. The judges did NOT say that, despite what the New Yorker reported, NOR DID I as some here have said equally incorrectly.

That was the whole point of my opening paragraph:

It's interesting to compare what some of the media said the judges said with what the judges actually said, since the judges did NOT say that they believed "that the criminalization of homosexuality did not cause sufficient harm to justify any action from the court" but that they simply considered that the applicants had "miserably failed" to make their case. Hardly the same thing.

Let me repeat: "HARDLY THE SAME THING"

Let me try to make it as simple as I can:

It was a court case.

Judgement in a court case is supposed to be based on the evidence presented, nothing else. This was.

The evidence presented by those claiming discrimination was "singularly laconic" and "wholly insufficient" and they "miserably failed" to make their case.

There may be plenty of discrimination (in my view there is), but NONE WAS PRESENTED TO THE COURT. It was claimed that the law (377) had been used to prosecute gays, but not a single case of such prosecution was cited and the ONLY case cited was of a man having sex with a cow's nose nearly a century ago.

One side presented a good case. They won. The other side presented virtually no case. They lost. That's what happens in a court case - and this WAS a court case, not a moral debate.

[LeCharivari]

When you are fighting both the public opinion and the law, there is a problem. The law should be the place where people can get justice and protection. In India, it appears they have neither.

That depends on who "they" are.

Those who support gay rights think that the law should protect them - quite rightly, in my view. That would require not a repeal of 377, which is purely symbolic, but a whole new set of anti-discrimination laws.

Those who are anti-gay rights think that the law should protect them - some previous links explain their view of what from. 377 doesn't do that, but Indian public opinion currently does.

[LeCharivari]

Repealing a law does make a lot of difference to a lot of people. It also makes a huge difference in how the State treats an individual.

Yes and no in this case.

Yes, it would make a lot of symbolic difference to a number of people in India (and outside).

No, it wouldn't make any actual difference to how "the State" (India) treats anyone. Police who harass LGBT would continue to harass LGBT; anyone who doesn't want to employ LGBT could continue not to employ LGBT; treatment of MSM with HIV (see the judgement for relevance) would continue unchanged - no applicable laws would have been changed.

What would be needed to make any difference would be either new anti-discriminatory laws or a radical change in the public view of LGBT.. "Repealing a law" doesn't do either of those.

There is a world of difference between what is symbolic and what is effective.

[LeCharivari]

(Moved from http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/689888-super-strict-test-of-anti-gayness/page-2#entry7182093 to avoid going off-topic there)

Are you "missing the point here"? Hard to say since you are talking about posts and "statements" that simply don't exist and never have.

valgehiir:

No, I am not missing the point, alltho I admit it is sometimes very difficult for me to fully understand your posts. Probably a language barrier, but sometimes I read some of your posts several times, and it gets even more confusing after each time.

In the thread about Indias court ruling you said the following:

'in other words, and despite all the hype, there was NO evidence presented that there has been any "blatant oppression against our brothers and sisters, the GLBT people of India" at all.'

I used the word 'idiotic' to describe that post from you. I should have used a different word to describe that posting from you. 'idiotic' is offensive term, and I regret using that term, and I apologize!
Should have desribed it as odd or very strange.

But what has ThaiVisa member Naam to do with it?

Please tell me what part of posts # 26 and 33 you don't understand or disagree with and I'll try to clarify it.

Please tell me what exactly is "idiotic" ... "odd or very strange" about repeating the judges' view that one side "miserably failed" to make their case and, if you disagree as you seem to, please show any evidence they presented that was valid and made their case.

You say you " read posts here how things are not all that bad for gay people in India. Im sorry, it just idiotic thing to claim." Please tell me, WHERE ARE THESE POSTS?

Please show me where anyone has said "things are not all that bad for gay people in India."

[sustento]

The Indian Government has asked the Supreme Court to re-examine its decision on Section 377 of the criminal law.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Gay-sex-verdict-Government-moves-Supreme-Court-for-review/articleshow/27677123.cms

Edited December 20, 2013 by sustento

[LeCharivari]

That always seemed the likely option - the Indian Government are simply asking the Court to do their job for them so that whatever the outcome they can't be held responsible and they can avoid having to show their true colours one way or the other.

India's politicians clearly have as little backbone as most in the West - India's gays deserve to have the law repealed and their rights acknowledged on more than a technicality.