Spotlight on foreign media coverage of Bangkok's crisis

[NongKhaiKid]

I hope the mods don't see this as off topic but sometimes reporting can be influenced or at least an attempt at by the reporters' own embassies.

I say this because about 17 years ago in Manila I met two German reporters working for a business related publication who were there to report on a conference of Pacific Rim nations. They had received a great orientation briefing at the German embassy which was soured by a request / warning not to write what they saw around Manila of a negative nature.

The diplomat who spoke said something along the lines of if they publish something negative etc. it was the embassy that had to pick up the pieces and take the flak from the Phillipine's Foreign Ministry.

I'm not saying that the BBC are influenced by the embassy here but diplomats do not like problems.

Should we all bring up stories about 20 or 30 years ago about Germans in the Philippines? And ...

And what ? ust pointing on that things go on behind the scenes and news reports can be tailored to suit rather than being as direct as they might be.

Too complicated ?

[thailiketoo]

I googled Cartalucci and he posts on a website run by two columnists of a publication called Russia Today. Anyone can google Russia Today. To compare it with the BBC or NYT is a misnomer.

[thailiketoo]

I hope the mods don't see this as off topic but sometimes reporting can be influenced or at least an attempt at by the reporters' own embassies.

I say this because about 17 years ago in Manila I met two German reporters working for a business related publication who were there to report on a conference of Pacific Rim nations. They had received a great orientation briefing at the German embassy which was soured by a request / warning not to write what they saw around Manila of a negative nature.

The diplomat who spoke said something along the lines of if they publish something negative etc. it was the embassy that had to pick up the pieces and take the flak from the Phillipine's Foreign Ministry.

I'm not saying that the BBC are influenced by the embassy here but diplomats do not like problems.

Should we all bring up stories about 20 or 30 years ago about Germans in the Philippines? And ...

And what ? ust pointing on that things go on behind the scenes and news reports can be tailored to suit rather than being as direct as they might be.

Too complicated ?

No too off topic. 17 years ago in Manilla? Aw come on now. The mod already said stay away from Vietnam comparisons. This is today in Bangkok. You have a debate between a poster on a blog run by Russia being compared to BBC and NYT. A Russian blog and the New York Times or the British Broadcasting Corp. Who ya gonna trust?

[northernjohn]

Well I was to much of a red neck to really know what was going on in the Viet Nam war.

But I have matured and learned to look at both sides. In my opinion Jonathan Head with the BBC is not even sure where Thailand is. I did not get to see the BBC coverage of 2010 but was told it made the red shirts look like the good guys. Like they had done nothing to provoke the situation.

As for the Times article clearly a biased article taken using abstracts from chosen sources. Let us not forget the quality of paper that printed it. They also published an article that said the red shirts were unarmed in 2010, A great News Paper on it's way down hill trying to live off it's past reputation.

My personal experience is that my son has bought his tickets to come visit me in February and twice he has called to ask if it is safe. That should give a clue as to what the foreign press is reporting. I have explained to him that for the most part it has been peaceful except for a brief flare up in one area where the red shirts tried to attack and were repelled. In that case it was such a small area involved it hardly was worth consideration. That Bangkok was a very large city with most of it unaffected by the protest.

Yes there might be some red shirts in small northern communities trying to set fire to city hall or as the case here in Chiang Mai was a fire engine. Not sure what they hoped to prove with that maneuver other than they had a few misconceived ideas. But over all forget it. It is just one family trying to hold on to power and a group of citizens saying they were fed up with the family and it's corrupt ways.

Under the Shinawatra rule in 2 and 1/2 years Thailand has gone down from 37% honest to 35% honest.

As it looks nothing will change the protestors will tire and there will be an election returning Thaksin Shinawatra to power even though he lives in another country and will have to serve a two year jail sentence if he returns plus face other charges.

Life as we know it will continue no problem unless you are living in a very small area of Bangkok. Even then that area will not be as bad as some of the other areas to get around in due to the lack of traffic planning by all the previous governments.

[LomSak27]

I

googled Cartalucci and he posts on a website run by two columnists of a publication called Russia Today

Whoever Tony is - or the people that post as Tony, he comes up every couple years whenever the Yellows get their wind up. Wiki sites can be edited and what I remember reading back in 2008-10 is all gone

as it had links to some other of their MORE crazy conspiracy theories I assume Tony and Landdestroyer spend a lot of time editing and reediting. His work for 'The Centre for Global Research' seems to have been deleted too. Ahh the many mysteries of Tony and Land destroyer. Obviously its a money maker!! Good going Tony!

[FangFerang]

Biased media is not an American invention...however, we have raised it to the level of incompetence that is simultaneously terrifying and amazing.

I report back to the States, but my usual clients are not interested in complexities here. Sadly, I think the sun is setting in the West. The voice of reason, quiet and vulnerable, has been swallowed into the white noise.

[citizen33]

Yep, the fog of Thainess has descended. The problem for the pro-Suthep side is that they really do not have any credible overseas champions either in Western academia or the serious media. As for telling the foreign journalists to get out and about, that might be said in spades for some of those who live in the Bangkok/Pattaya/Phuket expat bubbles.

[kirk0233]

Moreover, correspondents also had Western ideologies without trying to understand the roots of Thai society.

"Looking at democracy only as a representative system is too narrow and ignores [aspects of a] direct democratic system. That is like saying democracy only means elections," he said.

A direct democratic system is the system in place in Switzerland. I am sure he is suggesting that choosing a dictator who represents all the people and knows what is best for them; whether they like it or not is a direct democracy Thai style. If you don't understand this type of democracy you are not Thai.

[fab4]

Good to see Cartalucci getting some exposure. He is a rare bird in that he reports facts without allowing emotion to cloud his judgement, which combined with his long term familiarity with Thailand makes his articles well worth reading. All too often these international reporters, some clearly looking like disheveled junkies, seek short term relationships with workers in the "entertainment" industries, straight after arriving in country from other less hospitable places, and read way too much into the drunken pillow talk they hear.

I see what you mean. Here's a snippet from todays unbiased, unemotional article from Cartalucci's blog

December 21, 2013 (Tony Cartalucci) - The regime of Thaksin Shinawatra built itself upon a foundation of corruption, deceit, fear, intimidation, bigotry, violence, and mass murder. Its followers, the "red shirts," are notorious thugs, having barricaded schools threatening teachers and parents, slapping university lecturers, and even going as far as hacking their opponents to pieces, committing massive city-wide arson, and armed insurrection. Though they only represent at most 7% of the population, with a mere 35% of all eligible voters having cast their ballots for the current regime, the silent majority fears them. http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/

I kid you not

Edited December 22, 2013 by fab4

[SICHONSTEVE]

Good to see Cartalucci getting some exposure. He is a rare bird in that he reports facts without allowing emotion to cloud his judgement, which combined with his long term familiarity with Thailand makes his articles well worth reading. All too often these international reporters, some clearly looking like disheveled junkies, seek short term relationships with workers in the "entertainment" industries, straight after arriving in country from other less hospitable places, and read way too much into the drunken pillow talk they hear.

We're talking about the same Tony Cartalucci right? This is conspiracy theorist Tony Cartalucci that writes for Alex Jones' Infowars? Does he report the 'facts' in the same way that Alex Jones does?

Yes, the very same.Still it's interesting that he is getting much exposure on the Thai political crisis, and is widely quoted - even though a quick survey of his views (on non Thai matters) demonstrates he is nuts.He is for example a passionate Assad supporter and believes 9/11 was an inside job etc etc.I know nothing about his background but it is curiously akin to the mindset of some Indian/Pakistani commentators - where zany conspiracy theory is a way of life.

The trouble is the Democrat/Suthep people have a conflicted view of foreign press coverage.They hate to have their darker side scrutinised by outsiders and yet at the same time crave foreign approval.Unfortunately every serious foreign news source, academic, think tank, ambassador tends to identify the obvious - namely the deeply undemocratic nature of the anti government opposition.This means that their few foreign supporters are given great prominence, not only the laughable Cartalucci but also the equally absurd American, Michael Yon.Personally I find Michael Yon more absurd than Cartalucci, because at least the latter has some command of the material.Yon is just plain ignorant.Yet both have huge support across the social media from the actiivist urban middle class - and shamefully for educated men, Abhisit and Korn have taken up Michael Yon as a credible source.

Finally, since invoking oddities like Cartalucci/Yon etc is ultimately self defeating we will inevitably hear more on the lines that Thailand is utterly inexplicable to foreigners, follows unique rules unknown to other countries and that you have to be a Thai (in practice often descendants of Southern Chinese coolies) to appreciate "Thainess".

Is it your opinion that the government were acting in the best interest of democratic principles when their soul objective WAS to get Thaksin back and then in attempting to drive through bills that gave them absolute power of both houses as well as trying to make everything less transparent and without checks and balances so that their scams would be easier to operate and benefit from?

Is it so democratic that Thailand is controlled by an 'on the run' fraudster fugitive (who got a doctorship in criminology to make it easier for him to rape Thailand) in order that he can carry on with his business interests from abroad, unabated?

As for the flood prevention and 2.2 trillion baht scams they tried to ram rod through without bothering with public consultations and parliamentary debate - well that was very democratic, wasn't it!!!

[Scamper]

The foreign media have always had a problem sifting through the Thai political situation. This is not new. Even for those who live in Thailand, it is an immensely complex system and so full of factions and counter-factions, consistencies and contradictions, it is very, very hard - if not impossible - to piece it all together. Put simply, Thailand's political situation cannot survive today's age of the thirty-second sound-bite ! And yet news organizations - particularly that involve live journalistic reports, that indeed are meant to encapsulate Thailand's situation into thirty seconds - believe it can - and find the only way they can do it is to cut corners, simplify it, and make it " user-friendly " for Western consumption. The result - it is sad to say - is that foreign consumption is as clueless as to what is going on here as it was before.

[Baerboxer]

The trouble is the Democrat/Suthep people have a conflicted view of foreign press coverage.They hate to have their darker side scrutinised by outsiders and yet at the same time crave foreign approval.

Spot on (as is the rest of your excellent post, but just to highlight this). Had noticed this before but it was particularly apparent when reading Michael Yon's FB page yesterday. They really want foreigners to legitimize their movement, but as soon as any criticism is offered, the general attitude is 'You don't understand Thailand, white trash. Go back to your own country' or the like.

One would almost expect such provincial attitudes from the rural reds, but not so much from the educate people. However, I've expressed my disdain for Thaksin many times to red friends and haven't heard any of this nationalistic stuff - obviously this is an unrepresentative sample because the reds I know are pretty much all urban, educated liberals, but so are the anti-govt people, supposedly... Also was told by two reds I met on a chance drunken meeting during a trip to Issan that, in their view, it's likely that many foreigners have a more accurate view of Thai history than they do, due to unfettered access to the truth.

Of course, I've also got anti-govt friends who have supported Suthep's movement to various degrees and they wouldn't tell me I know nothing simply because I'm a farang. They find a lot of the nationalist stuff ridiculous and are even shocked or surprised by it. But there does seem to be a strong nationalistic current amongst the protesters.

I don't disagree that both sides seek foreign approvals and comments in an attempt to legitimize themselves. We have the caretaker FM gleefully commentating on the number of letters from foreign countries supporting the election. He doesn't reveal all the wordings but tries to put it across as support for the current caretaker government and its leadership. The DEMS want foreigners to support them by condemning the corruption of the last 2.5 years. When this isn't forthcoming, they throw a wobbly and get nasty.

Foreign governments are careful in the choice of words - support peace, democracy and encourage dialogue and respect for law. Journalists are also careful in their choice of words - some to convey balanced unbiased reporting, others to put their or their editorial policy spin on it. I hope no one believes everything they read in the press.

What's amazing is the amount of reasonable,liberal red shirts suddenly supposedly "appearing", ready to listen to the other's point of view and accept criticism and opposing comments. Would this be the same group that intimidates judges who rule against their government? The group that supports a government that not so longer ago severely threatened free speech - remember the police threats about social media, or daring to press "like" buttons on any comments against PTP? Remember the defamation suits? Remember the use of Tarit to threaten and intimidate critics?

Yingluck, the queen of U-turns, now suddenly offers reforms and dialogue. Why would anyone believe her based on past performance?

Suthep wants to install his (or his bosses) idea of a people's council, with promises of reforms and elections to follow. Why would anyone believe him either?

Both sides only want to encourage those journalists who report favorably for them, naturally. I didn't see much willingness to discuss or interest in foreign opinions from PTP until backed into a corner and desperate for any help. The DEMS seem to think they can tell the foreigners what they should think. Add to that some very poor reporting on both biases. I have read articles that would leave a new reader very much thinking that a legitimate elected government was being ousted by a right wing conspiracy, with strong implications that Thaksin is really innocent of everything (even before trial!). There are also ones that portray a people's protest trying to oust and inept and corrupt government. The lack of depth and research in most possibly indicates the lack of real interest in Thailand.

[sprq]

Part of the lack of understanding about Vietnam during the early phases of that war in the US media was because many, if not most, foreign correspondents collected their stories from the safety and ease of a barstool in Saigon's Hotel Continental. I doubt if too much has changed for these Time, Newsweek, BBC, and NY Times types, except that they jet in and out of places like Bangkok even faster than their old contemporaries, who at least were stationed for years in the countries they covered 50 years ago.

Jonathan Head of the BBC has been based in Bangkok for many years and in the region even longer, at least 15 years, except when he was sent on "sabbatical" (shall we say) to Istanbul for a couple of years after being charged with lese majeste in Thailand. I don't see any barstools in his TV reports.

[JAS21]

I

googled Cartalucci and he posts on a website run by two columnists of a publication called Russia Today

Whoever Tony is - or the people that post as Tony, he comes up every couple years whenever the Yellows get their wind up. Wiki sites can be edited and what I remember reading back in 2008-10 is all gone

as it had links to some other of their MORE crazy conspiracy theories I assume Tony and Landdestroyer spend a lot of time editing and reediting. His work for 'The Centre for Global Research' seems to have been deleted too. Ahh the many mysteries of Tony and Land destroyer. Obviously its a money maker!! Good going Tony!

Correct ... wiki sites do get edited http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/wikipedia-founder-attacks-bell-pottinger-for-ethical-blindness-6273836.html I wonder who B-P have been employed by

[Baerboxer]

I hope the mods don't see this as off topic but sometimes reporting can be influenced or at least an attempt at by the reporters' own embassies.

I say this because about 17 years ago in Manila I met two German reporters working for a business related publication who were there to report on a conference of Pacific Rim nations. They had received a great orientation briefing at the German embassy which was soured by a request / warning not to write what they saw around Manila of a negative nature.

The diplomat who spoke said something along the lines of if they publish something negative etc. it was the embassy that had to pick up the pieces and take the flak from the Phillipine's Foreign Ministry.

I'm not saying that the BBC are influenced by the embassy here but diplomats do not like problems.

Should we all bring up stories about 20 or 30 years ago about Germans in the Philippines? And ...

And what ? ust pointing on that things go on behind the scenes and news reports can be tailored to suit rather than being as direct as they might be.

Too complicated ?

No too off topic. 17 years ago in Manilla? Aw come on now. The mod already said stay away from Vietnam comparisons. This is today in Bangkok. You have a debate between a poster on a blog run by Russia being compared to BBC and NYT. A Russian blog and the New York Times or the British Broadcasting Corp. Who ya gonna trust?

That's a real toughy of a question! Can we phone a friend ?

[thailiketoo]

I see what you mean. Here's a snippet from todays unbiased, unemotional article from Cartalucci's blog

December 21, 2013 (Tony Cartalucci) - The regime of Thaksin Shinawatra built itself upon a foundation of corruption, deceit, fear, intimidation, bigotry, violence, and mass murder. Its followers, the "red shirts," are notorious thugs, having barricaded schools threatening teachers and parents, slapping university lecturers, and even going as far as hacking their opponents to pieces, committing massive city-wide arson, and armed insurrection. Though they only represent at most 7% of the population, with a mere 35% of all eligible voters having cast their ballots for the current regime, the silent majority fears them. http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/

I kid you not

Thaksin's party has won every election since 2001. As much as you hit your head the majority of Thai people keep putting him in power. That is what the current protests are about. They can't win at the polls so they are trying to win in the streets. International media sees it for what it is and is reporting it as they see it. Attacking the BBC and New York Times is a rather weak effort and subverting reality.

Reading the OP the one quote that has to stand out is, ""Looking at democracy only as a representative system is too narrow and ignores [aspects of a] direct democratic system. That is like saying democracy only means elections," he said."

So a totalitarian movement may now invent new meanings for words? Some one has to call a spade a spade and sorry sir but a democracy is a representative government and it your government is not a representative system it is not a democracy.

Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws.

[Somtamnication]

The market (or money, depending on your point of view) is for those outside of Thailand. Setting cultural and face issues aside, these journalists are not binded to any red or yellow party, nor any military.

Their points are fairer and more in depth than the so called Thai journalists.

The issues brought up by the local media pundits over the foreign media is proof of their one-sided reports, loss of face and their frustration for not being allowed to "truly" report. You can thank that to the defamation laws here.

[GrantSmith]

Yes I have to say Cartalucci and Yon are really not the 'foreign journalists' you want to be quoting as understanding the political situation here.

The same can be said that you don't want to be quoting Nostitz, MacGregor Marshall or Andrew Spooner as having the inside run on the red side.

Even reading all of their collective musings on the situation doesn't give one an understanding of the situation. It gives perspective, sure, but it's really just 'he said, she said'.

I've found Al Jazeera of all foreign press to give a fairly decent account to all sides. I'd say Jonathon Head's improved, but he still has a hard on for Yingluck so he seems to always be gushing in his interviews with her.

Watching the PDRC protests nightly, they continuously invite the foreign press to come and have a chat with them about their views as they're feeling the foreign press is misunderstanding their aims..

Don't believe anyone's taking up this invitation though, why is that? The PDRC not letting them through? If that were true that would surely be relayed in the foreign media coverage, no?

[Baerboxer]

Part of the lack of understanding about Vietnam during the early phases of that war in the US media was because many, if not most, foreign correspondents collected their stories from the safety and ease of a barstool in Saigon's Hotel Continental. I doubt if too much has changed for these Time, Newsweek, BBC, and NY Times types, except that they jet in and out of places like Bangkok even faster than their old contemporaries, who at least were stationed for years in the countries they covered 50 years ago.

Jonathan Head of the BBC has been based in Bangkok for many years and in the region even longer, at least 15 years, except when he was sent on "sabbatical" (shall we say) to Istanbul for a couple of years after being charged with lese majeste in Thailand. I don't see any barstools in his TV reports.

He reminds me of the type of British reporter that supported Pol Pot or Mugabe in their early days. Never quite coming out but always just a tad economical in presenting the full facts.

A sort of "champagne socialist" who reports in a very politically correct way. The Beeb have been doing this for years and years.

[Mackie]

I see what you mean. Here's a snippet from todays unbiased, unemotional article from Cartalucci's blog

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/

I kid you not

Yep but that BlogSpot also provided irrefutable evidence and links proving that Thaksin together with his best mate Hun Sen organised shipments of arms and weapons to the North and Northeast of Thailand in 2009/2010. That weapons were obviously used to kill other Thais. Do you approve of armed shipments to other countries in order to kill your own compatriots?

Furthermore, www.landdestroyer.blogspot also provided clear evidence that on the first night of the conflict in 2010 the red mob brown boots ambushed soldiers killing five of them instantly. That is how the whole violence started. There is a video evidence proving that red mob supporters were armed with M16 automatic weapons as well as men in black fully armed mixing up together with red mobsters. But that is something you don't want to acknowledge even to this day. A testament to your intellectual dishonesty.

Finally, an excellent article which totally exposes NYT as a totally biased source in this current Thai crisis. Maybe something to do with the numerous PR agencies the man from Dubai is paying in order to give his side a good media coverage. Of course, that is another subject you do not want to talk about.

More Dishonesty About Thailand's Upheaval From the International New York Times

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/20601-more-dishonesty-about-thailands-upheaval-from-the-international-new-york-times

Edited December 22, 2013 by Mackie

[NongKhaiKid]

Part of the lack of understanding about Vietnam during the early phases of that war in the US media was because many, if not most, foreign correspondents collected their stories from the safety and ease of a barstool in Saigon's Hotel Continental. I doubt if too much has changed for these Time, Newsweek, BBC, and NY Times types, except that they jet in and out of places like Bangkok even faster than their old contemporaries, who at least were stationed for years in the countries they covered 50 years ago.

Jonathan Head of the BBC has been based in Bangkok for many years and in the region even longer, at least 15 years, except when he was sent on "sabbatical" (shall we say) to Istanbul for a couple of years after being charged with lese majeste in Thailand. I don't see any barstools in his TV reports.

Pllease correct any mistake but when Mr. T was PM in situ did he not expel or ban reporters from the Far Eastern Economic Rieview because they wrote something he didn't like ?

Free Speech rules !

[louse1953]

I hope the mods don't see this as off topic but sometimes reporting can be influenced or at least an attempt at by the reporters' own embassies.

I say this because about 17 years ago in Manila I met two German reporters working for a business related publication who were there to report on a conference of Pacific Rim nations. They had received a great orientation briefing at the German embassy which was soured by a request / warning not to write what they saw around Manila of a negative nature.

The diplomat who spoke said something along the lines of if they publish something negative etc. it was the embassy that had to pick up the pieces and take the flak from the Phillipine's Foreign Ministry.

I'm not saying that the BBC are influenced by the embassy here but diplomats do not like problems.

Should we all bring up stories about 20 or 30 years ago about Germans in the Philippines? And ...

And what ? ust pointing on that things go on behind the scenes and news reports can be tailored to suit rather than being as direct as they might be.

Too complicated ?

No too off topic. 17 years ago in Manilla? Aw come on now. The mod already said stay away from Vietnam comparisons. This is today in Bangkok. You have a debate between a poster on a blog run by Russia being compared to BBC and NYT. A Russian blog and the New York Times or the British Broadcasting Corp. Who ya gonna trust?

Good question.None of them,they all have their own agenda.

[Kudel]

I see what you mean. Here's a snippet from todays unbiased, unemotional article from Cartalucci's blog

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/

I kid you not

Yep but that BlogSpot also provided irrefutable evidence and links proving that Thaksin together with his best mate Hun Sen organised shipments of arms and weapons to the North and Northeast of Thailand in 2009/2010. That weapons were obviously used to kill other Thais. Do you approve of armed shipments to other countries in order to kill your own compatriots?

Furthermore, www.landdestroyer.blogspot also provided clear evidence that on the first night of the conflict in 2010 the red mob brown boots ambushed soldiers killing five of them instantly. That is how the whole violence started. There is a video evidence proving that red mob supporters were armed with M16 automatic weapons as well as men in black fully armed mixing up together with red mobsters. But that is something you don't want to acknowledge even to this day. A testament to your intellectual dishonesty.

Finally, an excellent article which totally exposes NYT as a totally biased source in this current Thai crisis. Maybe something to do with the numerous PR agencies the man from Dubai is paying in order to give his side a good media coverage. Of course, that is another subject you do not want to talk about.

More Dishonesty About Thailand's Upheaval From the International New York Times

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/20601-more-dishonesty-about-thailands-upheaval-from-the-international-new-york-times

Do you believe everything you read on the net, author of said website clearly states that he is an economic refugee from the states and clearly has an axe to grind with his home country including the press.

His probably oone those guys that came to Thailand found a Thai woman and now everything in the west is crap and Thailand is heaven.Talk about biased reporting.

[FangFerang]

Fuller declined to talk to The Nation about the matter.

Well, that really says it all.

I consider Thai journalists at The Nation and Bangkok Post to be forthright about their bias...which is human nature and at least an honest declaration in regards to the writer's opinion. Even when I disagree I can at least understand that they have a preference and are supporting it.

In the West "journalists" never declare their viewpoint--they pretend to be neutral while pontificating. Sophistry! Thai culture and politics are not simplistic at all.

One Thai poster criticized a farang for 'marrying a Thai wife and declaring Thailand is Heaven.' That is a valid viewpoint. Many of us prefer Thai culture because of the same 'Thainess' that some farang criticize.

Okay, now you hate us for loving Thais? I do not understand this at all...

Edited December 22, 2013 by FangFerang

[SICHONSTEVE]

I see what you mean. Here's a snippet from todays unbiased, unemotional article from Cartalucci's blog

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/

I kid you not

Yep but that BlogSpot also provided irrefutable evidence and links proving that Thaksin together with his best mate Hun Sen organised shipments of arms and weapons to the North and Northeast of Thailand in 2009/2010. That weapons were obviously used to kill other Thais. Do you approve of armed shipments to other countries in order to kill your own compatriots?

Furthermore, www.landdestroyer.blogspot also provided clear evidence that on the first night of the conflict in 2010 the red mob brown boots ambushed soldiers killing five of them instantly. That is how the whole violence started. There is a video evidence proving that red mob supporters were armed with M16 automatic weapons as well as men in black fully armed mixing up together with red mobsters. But that is something you don't want to acknowledge even to this day. A testament to your intellectual dishonesty.

Finally, an excellent article which totally exposes NYT as a totally biased source in this current Thai crisis. Maybe something to do with the numerous PR agencies the man from Dubai is paying in order to give his side a good media coverage. Of course, that is another subject you do not want to talk about.

More Dishonesty About Thailand's Upheaval From the International New York Times

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/20601-more-dishonesty-about-thailands-upheaval-from-the-international-new-york-times

Do you believe everything you read on the net, author of said website clearly states that he is an economic refugee from the states and clearly has an axe to grind with his home country including the press.

His probably oone those guys that came to Thailand found a Thai woman and now everything in the west is crap and Thailand is heaven.Talk about biased reporting.

Stop being so childish with those schoolboy comments of yours!!

Thanks mackie for enlightening me on the 'sins' of Thaksin - too numerous to list. A brilliant and forthright article if I must say so.

If only the uneducated lot up North could be told the truth about Thaksin (they would have to be told as many of them probably can't read Thai).

It puts a completely different complexion on my take of just how bad Thaksin is, it is just staggering that anyone could be so corrupt and in thinking they are above the law. As for his treatment of the Malay's down South, that is simply unforgivable.

I would be more than happy if a bolt of lightning struck him down as he is as despicable as they come and so ruthless with it!!

[bunuel]

Yon and Cartalucci may be many things, but they can never be called journalists. They are bloggers and opinionators, whose views may or may not have have validity - but neither has any intellectual or journalistic credibility, The last time I read Yon, he was calling for armrd revolt against Obama over the issue of gun control, so he certainly speaks for a certain fringe minority in the US.

Bottom line is that if these two are the only "pundits" supporting the disloyal opposition, ir is safe to say the opposition has lost the war for international hearts and minds. This can only come as a surprise to the intellectual lightweights at The Nation, who seem oblivious to the fact that 40 + nations have expressed support for the democratic process in Thailand, as has the UN Secretary General. Are there any countries in the world who have expressed any sympathy for the opposition in Thailand? Are there any prominent figures anywhere in the world who have expressed support??

I seriously doubt it.

By the way, comparing the position of Abhisit to Aun Sang Syu Ki of Burma insults the Nobel Peace Prize Winner, who actually won the Burmese election in 1988 with an estimated wide majority before the aemy stepped in. If anything, Mr. Abhisit's irresponsible actions are making the democratically elected PM Yingluck

Good to see Cartalucci getting some exposure. He is a rare bird in that he reports facts without allowing emotion to cloud his judgement, which combined with his long term familiarity with Thailand makes his articles well worth reading. All too often these international reporters, some clearly looking like disheveled junkies, seek short term relationships with workers in the "entertainment" industries, straight after arriving in country from other less hospitable places, and read way too much into the drunken pillow talk they hear.

We're talking about the same Tony Cartalucci right? This is conspiracy theorist Tony Cartalucci that writes for Alex Jones' Infowars? Does he report the 'facts' in the same way that Alex Jones does?

Yes, the very same.Still it's interesting that he is getting much exposure on the Thai political crisis, and is widely quoted - even though a quick survey of his views (on non Thai matters) demonstrates he is nuts.He is for example a passionate Assad supporter and believes 9/11 was an inside job etc etc.I know nothing about his background but it is curiously akin to the mindset of some Indian/Pakistani commentators - where zany conspiracy theory is a way of life.

The trouble is the Democrat/Suthep people have a conflicted view of foreign press coverage.They hate to have their darker side scrutinised by outsiders and yet at the same time crave foreign approval.Unfortunately every serious foreign news source, academic, think tank, ambassador tends to identify the obvious - namely the deeply undemocratic nature of the anti government opposition.This means that their few foreign supporters are given great prominence, not only the laughable Cartalucci but also the equally absurd American, Michael Yon.Personally I find Michael Yon more absurd than Cartalucci, because at least the latter has some command of the material.Yon is just plain ignorant.Yet both have huge support across the social media from the actiivist urban middle class - and shamefully for educated men, Abhisit and Korn have taken up Michael Yon as a credible source.

Finally, since invoking oddities like Cartalucci/Yon etc is ultimately self defeating we will inevitably hear more on the lines that Thailand is utterly inexplicable to foreigners, follows unique rules unknown to other countries and that you have to be a Thai (in practice often descendants of Southern Chinese coolies) to appreciate "Thainess".

[Dogmatix]

Much of the Western media likes to do a quick take on their own perceived interests first. Morsi was democratically elected but pursued a tyranny of the majority who happened to like the idea of Islamist anti-Western government. Similarly the democratically government in Ukraine is bad because it is cosying up to Putin's neo-Stalinist Russian Empire.

Absent any clear Western interests to the contrary, they take the view that the Shinawatras and their red shirted paid bully boys are champions of democracy. I wonder what Jonathan Head and Thomas Fuller would say about a similar type of government in their own countries that was hell bent on bankrupting the country through corruption and changed laws to suit their personal interests.

As for the doped up fake freelance photojournalists who wind up in Thailand as hippy backpackers and get their political views from uneducated bar girls in Nana Plaza, maybe time to start investigating their work permits and who they are really working for.

[jpeg]

I googled Cartalucci and he posts on a website run by two columnists of a publication called Russia Today. Anyone can google Russia Today. To compare it with the BBC or NYT is a misnomer.

Indeed. RT, along with Al Jazeera, are the only news sources to be trusted with the truth. But that would fly right over the majority of the Mail/Times/Express readers here on ThaiVisa. BBC? Pffft.

[thailiketoo]

Stop being so childish with those schoolboy comments of yours!!

Thanks mackie for enlightening me on the 'sins' of Thaksin - too numerous to list. A brilliant and forthright article if I must say so.

If only the uneducated lot up North could be told the truth about Thaksin (they would have to be told as many of them probably can't read Thai).

It puts a completely different complexion on my take of just how bad Thaksin is, it is just staggering that anyone could be so corrupt and in thinking they are above the law. As for his treatment of the Malay's down South, that is simply unforgivable.

I would be more than happy if a bolt of lightning struck him down as he is as despicable as they come and so ruthless with it!!

You wrote, " Stop being so childish with those schoolboy comments of yours!!" Then you wrote, "they would have to be told as many of them probably can't read Thai and I would be more than happy if a bolt of lightning struck him down."

I would think you could probably apply the first statement to the second and third. How can you expect people to try and carry on an intelligent discourse with you?

I will no longer respond to your posts and I would suggest others do likewise as you are not civil enough to be published on a reputable forum.

[fab4]

I see what you mean. Here's a snippet from todays unbiased, unemotional article from Cartalucci's blog

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/

I kid you not

Yep but that BlogSpot also provided irrefutable evidence and links proving that Thaksin together with his best mate Hun Sen organised shipments of arms and weapons to the North and Northeast of Thailand in 2009/2010. That weapons were obviously used to kill other Thais. Do you approve of armed shipments to other countries in order to kill your own compatriots?

Furthermore, www.landdestroyer.blogspot also provided clear evidence that on the first night of the conflict in 2010 the red mob brown boots ambushed soldiers killing five of them instantly. That is how the whole violence started. There is a video evidence proving that red mob supporters were armed with M16 automatic weapons as well as men in black fully armed mixing up together with red mobsters. But that is something you don't want to acknowledge even to this day. A testament to your intellectual dishonesty.

Finally, an excellent article which totally exposes NYT as a totally biased source in this current Thai crisis. Maybe something to do with the numerous PR agencies the man from Dubai is paying in order to give his side a good media coverage. Of course, that is another subject you do not want to talk about.

More Dishonesty About Thailand's Upheaval From the International New York Times

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/20601-more-dishonesty-about-thailands-upheaval-from-the-international-new-york-times

You assume a lot about me.

You'll find that the first person killed on April 10th 2010 was a UDD supporter in the afternoon at the Kok Wua intersection but if you wish to obtain your "facts" from cartalucci, feel free.

Oh and don't call me a liar without proof, it's called flaming and is not necessary.