How Happy Will Foreign Teachers Be In 2014?

[puchooay]

I think that the OP's original question is an interesting one, and one which I'm interested in hearing more about. His question, and I'll explain a little about it for new teachers who aren't familiar with the regulations, was this:

In Thailand, if you want to teach at a government school, you need a temporary teaching licence to do so. This was previously granted without any problems, however the TCT (who issues the licences) decided to raise the bar a little in regards to what is required. They decided that all teachers should have a bachelor degree, at which point they would be granted a temporary teaching licence while they study for their full teacher's licence (Which is obtained after passing 4x exams + taking a Thai Culture course).

Most teachers didn't bother to do the exams, or tried a couple of times and then gave up on them, as the English was barely decipherable and the questions extremely subjective, with English study material being very difficult to find in comparison to it's Thai equivalent.

The TCT allowed teachers to receive upto 2x temporary teacher's licences, and then (it's rumoured) would stop issuing temporary teaching licences. Previously changing schools meant you could start the process all over again, but from what I gather, this may no longer be the case.

As a result, there are some teachers who, next year, are going to be denied a second temporary teaching licence by the TCT, this will mean that they can't obtain a work permit or B visa by legitimate means. The OP therefore asked, what will these teachers do?

(That's a very long way of summing up what is otherwise a simple question, but I think it explains the OP's question a little better). Also in the OP's original post, I assume instead of Degree in Education, he meant a Thai teacher's licence. As although a degree in education + culture course qualifies teachers for a Thai teacher's licence, there are other ways of obtaining a Thai teacher's licence.

Thank you Sly.

All of these post saying that you "don't need this" or "don't need that" are misleading. Of course you can do things other ways but that is always a risk. If you get something, which you are not entitled to, it can back fire if there is a change in personnel in a particular office.

[aidenai]

I think that the OP's original question is an interesting one, and one which I'm interested in hearing more about. His question, and I'll explain a little about it for new teachers who aren't familiar with the regulations, was this:

In Thailand, if you want to teach at a government school, you need a temporary teaching licence to do so. This was previously granted without any problems, however the TCT (who issues the licences) decided to raise the bar a little in regards to what is required. They decided that all teachers should have a bachelor degree, at which point they would be granted a temporary teaching licence while they study for their full teacher's licence (Which is obtained after passing 4x exams + taking a Thai Culture course).

Most teachers didn't bother to do the exams, or tried a couple of times and then gave up on them, as the English was barely decipherable and the questions extremely subjective, with English study material being very difficult to find in comparison to it's Thai equivalent.

The TCT allowed teachers to receive upto 2x temporary teacher's licences, and then (it's rumoured) would stop issuing temporary teaching licences. Previously changing schools meant you could start the process all over again, but from what I gather, this may no longer be the case.

As a result, there are some teachers who, next year, are going to be denied a second temporary teaching licence by the TCT, this will mean that they can't obtain a work permit or B visa by legitimate means. The OP therefore asked, what will these teachers do?

(That's a very long way of summing up what is otherwise a simple question, but I think it explains the OP's question a little better). Also in the OP's original post, I assume instead of Degree in Education, he meant a Thai teacher's licence. As although a degree in education + culture course qualifies teachers for a Thai teacher's licence, there are other ways of obtaining a Thai teacher's licence.

Thank you Sly.

All of these post saying that you "don't need this" or "don't need that" are misleading. Of course you can do things other ways but that is always a risk. If you get something, which you are not entitled to, it can back fire if there is a change in personnel in a particular office.

As long as teacher placement agencies and learning centres are allowed to evade the TCT requirements, the current rules will never be enforced to its full extent.

I don't think it will ever change though. There's too much financial interest in agencies by Thai authorities.

[onlycw]

I'm on 30 k but much worse off than anyone taking the OP's 25 k offer in the now closed thread. Why? No pay during the hols, which will start in March. That will be 2.5 months without income.

Add the cost of Visa runs. I just returned from Vientiane (man, it's cold in Udon Thani to hang out at the train station for hours, waiting for the #77 train to Nong Khai to come). I offered to give the school a signed resignation letter in exchange for a contract till February 2015. These silly Visa runs will cost more than 10 grand from now till May 2014.

I'm likely to be one of the horde who would need a 3rd waiver. But the TCT seems to be having some kind of a cynical "master-plan" in place. Maybe all those who assume they really want all students' English to improve are mistaken?

[onlycw]

Actually those teachers who has a fake diploma couldn't get a 5 years license because the Khurusapa will check the school it takes 2 to 3 months before they will issue the license and the Ministry of Labor also check the documents before they will approve the WP.

You wish!!

Take FAMCARE Ministries' "Bible Study degree". I know a guy who sailed through it all, including TCT and Immigration. A Google search for a few minutes would have revealed what kind of a "degree" this is. Moreover, I have met some Cameroonians and if they have degrees, I'll eat a roll of toilet paper.

The crazy thing is that there are accredited NES (from NZ and Texas, qualified teachers back home) who have had trouble with Krungsrapa for years, while the Cameroonians I know get the green light. Add to that the silly passing TOEIC score. It 600 is good enough to be a teacher, that would explain a lot!!

[Fookhaht]

This is exactly what happened to me, after the two years waiver, I still did not have a degree, so I was repaced by a Philipino teacher at much less wages than me.

Your post inadvertently gives the real underlying reason for why the FILIPINO probably REPLACED you. Such is the market place--with jobs going to the most-qualified. A positive point is that the Filipino is probably making double the wage of back home in his homeland. Good for him. Suggest if you really like teaching, train for it. Like he did.

I agree with what you say, but it has to be said that because someone has a degree, it does not necessary make them a better teacher. I have seen teachers without a degree who are better than teachers with one.

Who is talking about degrees? Not me. Read my post again. I'm talking about training. TEFL, pedagogical training--including internships, etc. There are Ph.D.'s at my school who can't teach their way out of a wet paper bag. On the other hand, the students who've gone through some real teacher's training usually have a better handle on it than those who don't. They can learn practical teaching skills in a few years of closely-monitored training, what it takes an untrained average teacher 10 years to learn by trial-and-error experience.

[culicine]

Where I teach, only a bachelor's degree is required. It doesn't have to be in education. I think this is true nation wide now, however on any given day, depending on where you are and who the official is that you deal with (and your attitude), the rules can change. I've learned this from personal experience.

Up in the sticks, you do not need a batchelors degree, no one with a BD is going to work for 30.000 Baht per month. You do need though, a TEFL certificate. They can get Philipino teachers for less than 20.000 Baht per month, and believe me, they are as good as native English speakers. To my knowledge, I was the only Western teacher in the vicinity.

Philipinos are OK for lower grades, but beg to differ for upper mathyom. We have one teaching english to out M5-M6. My 10 year old p4 son can do half of her exam. She is teaching to HER level and not up to the level of the students, which should be focussing on IELTS / TOEFL / SAT exams, etc.. The students don't mind as they are getting an easy ride and easy GPA. Yet they complain no end about the maths teacher from Canada who works their asses off. Go figure...

If you hadn't noticed, 30K is the standard salary for a bachelor degree, and hasn't changed much in the last 10-15 years.

Apart from the licencing rules, experienced native speakers are a rarity now, as the salaries are still low but living costs have risen dramatically. It's just not worth their while anymore to come here. Most native speakers come through agencies these days, have little experience, and are gone within 6 months to a year.

Very good post, but do you really believe anyone with a batchelors degree is working here in Thailand for 30.000K per month. Are there any TV members with a batchelors degree working for 30.000K per month? Or even know of anyone who is?

Given that 30K is an average salary in LoS, especially upcountry, then I would suggest quite a number of those teachers have bachelor degrees (though generally not BEd's). I started in Thailand in May 2000 on a salary of 25K. I Have a Bsc Hons and a PhD (did a grad dip ed in 2004-08). Then 18 months later moved to BKK to double my salary. Thar first school still advertised for jobs for 27-30K a month, 14 years later.

Most of the native speaking teachers in my current school start at about 43K, though this is BKK, and they have bachelor degrees. We don't waste time employing teachers without degrees as we can't process the paperwork easily. maybe upcountry there are teachers without degrees who can get paperwork done but it's getting more difficult, especially in BKK.

[Slip]

I'm on 30 k but much worse off than anyone taking the OP's 25 k offer in the now closed thread. Why? No pay during the hols, which will start in March. That will be 2.5 months without income.

Add the cost of Visa runs. I just returned from Vientiane (man, it's cold in Udon Thani to hang out at the train station for hours, waiting for the #77 train to Nong Khai to come). I offered to give the school a signed resignation letter in exchange for a contract till February 2015. These silly Visa runs will cost more than 10 grand from now till May 2014.

I'm likely to be one of the horde who would need a 3rd waiver. But the TCT seems to be having some kind of a cynical "master-plan" in place. Maybe all those who assume they really want all students' English to improve are mistaken?

Referring to the last part of your post only. I think that TCT announced their evil plan quite clearly. It was to raise the standard of the members of the professional teaching body to a basic B. Ed/ PGCE/ Qualified teacher status as a minimum. This was for Thais and foreigners alike. Whether or not this was realistic is another matter that is actually kind of on topic.

[SlyAnimal]

I think a lot if the teachers upcountry who don't have bachelor degrees are on marriage visas, so don't need to show their temporary teacher's license to immigration.

Thus they only need to worry about their work permit. The Dept of Labour is often more relaxed in their work permit requirements and enforcement than what immigration is.

Which is why Immigration often wants copies of the same documents you already gave to the DoL. As even though the DoL checked them already, while approving your WP, immigration knows that the DoL isn't very thorough when checking documents.

[Newguy70]

Where I teach, only a bachelor's degree is required. It doesn't have to be in education. I think this is true nation wide now, however on any given day, depending on where you are and who the official is that you deal with (and your attitude), the rules can change. I've learned this from personal experience.

Up in the sticks, you do not need a batchelors degree, no one with a BD is going to work for 30.000 Baht per month. You do need though, a TEFL certificate. They can get Philipino teachers for less than 20.000 Baht per month, and believe me, they are as good as native English speakers. To my knowledge, I was the only Western teacher in the vicinity.

Philipinos are OK for lower grades, but beg to differ for upper mathyom. We have one teaching english to out M5-M6. My 10 year old p4 son can do half of her exam. She is teaching to HER level and not up to the level of the students, which should be focussing on IELTS / TOEFL / SAT exams, etc.. The students don't mind as they are getting an easy ride and easy GPA. Yet they complain no end about the maths teacher from Canada who works their asses off. Go figure...

If you hadn't noticed, 30K is the standard salary for a bachelor degree, and hasn't changed much in the last 10-15 years.

Apart from the licencing rules, experienced native speakers are a rarity now, as the salaries are still low but living costs have risen dramatically. It's just not worth their while anymore to come here. Most native speakers come through agencies these days, have little experience, and are gone within 6 months to a year.

You get what you ask for. I started at 38, 000 no degree.Learning a little bit of the language goes a very long way. Remember they need you just as much as you need them. Problem is most posters are just accepting 30, 000 .

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited December 28, 2013 by Newguy70

[NoshowJones]

Culicine, everything you have said is true, and I know about. Some teachers with a batchelors degree will maybe work up here in the sticks for a short time to get some experience teaching in Thailand, especially those who are not native English speakers. My first job in a city High School with about 4000 students, paid 30.000K per month, and my second only 20.000K per month. Not having a BD, I could not go any higher.

[Shancloudy]

Culicine, everything you have said is true, and I know about. Some teachers with a batchelors degree will maybe work up here in the sticks for a short time to get some experience teaching in Thailand, especially those who are not native English speakers. My first job in a city High School with about 4000 students, paid 30.000K per month, and my second only 20.000K per month. Not having a BD, I could not go any higher.

You don't have a Bachelor Degree but you're a nice person and very honest. As long as the school administrator likes you nothing to worry even you don't have a BD.

Good Luck.

[bundoi]

I had lunch yesterday with a local school director and she confirms that the maximum number of waivers is 2. However, if the teacher meets the requirement of having a degree then no waiver is necessary. I'm sure I'm just restating what some other posters have said already.

But the recurrent theme which seems to fascinate almost everybody is ... remuneration ;-)

Just googling some figures re teacher pay in some NES countries, comparing these to Thai NES pay scales and adjusting for cost-of-living, I would say that many or most NES teachers here are on a better deal than back home, but of course if and when they repatriate their savings (ahem) they will not be worth much in their high-cost countries.

[Shancloudy]

I had lunch yesterday with a local school director and she confirms that the maximum number of waivers is 2. However, if the teacher meets the requirement of having a degree then no waiver is necessary. I'm sure I'm just restating what some other posters have said already.

But the recurrent theme which seems to fascinate almost everybody is ... remuneration ;-)

Just googling some figures re teacher pay in some NES countries, comparing these to Thai NES pay scales and adjusting for cost-of-living, I would say that many or most NES teachers here are on a better deal than back home, but of course if and when they repatriate their savings (ahem) they will not be worth much in their high-cost countries.

Yes, this is true. The TCT told me that they will give up to 2x temporary license only.

I suggest before the temporary license will expire the teachers must go to the khurusapa main office to process their 5 years license it takes 2 to 3 months before they will release the license.

[SlyAnimal]

I had lunch yesterday with a local school director and she confirms that the maximum number of waivers is 2. However, if the teacher meets the requirement of having a degree then no waiver is necessary. I'm sure I'm just restating what some other posters have said already.

Yes if teachers meet the requirements for a full Thai teacher's license then it's easy. But the requirement isn't just to have a degree, they need:

A degree in education + Thai culture course

Or

A degree in any field + Thai culture course + passed 4x teachers license exams

If you have a degree in education then it's easy, if not then you need to pass the license exams which is difficult. Although the English in 3/4 exams was a lot better this year, to the point where 3/4 were definitely passable (I passed exams 1 & 4, and was 1 mark off passing 3. But I read that apparently no Farang in all of Thailand passed exam 2 this year).

[aidenai]

I had lunch yesterday with a local school director and she confirms that the maximum number of waivers is 2. However, if the teacher meets the requirement of having a degree then no waiver is necessary. I'm sure I'm just restating what some other posters have said already.

Yes if teachers meet the requirements for a full Thai teacher's license then it's easy. But the requirement isn't just to have a degree, they need:

A degree in education + Thai culture course

Or

A degree in any field + Thai culture course + passed 4x teachers license exams

Or

a degree in any field + Thai Culture Course + a graduate diploma in education/ teaching profession taking at least one year of study.

[sirchai]

Whatever they'll decide. Wish you all a very Happy, Healthy and Wealthy Year 2014!-

[aidenai]

Whatever they'll decide. Wish you all a very Happy, Healthy and Wealthy Year 2014!-

Happy New Year, sirchai. Seven and a half to go.

[weecree]

.

But the recurrent theme which seems to fascinate almost everybody is ... remuneration ;-)

Just googling some figures re teacher pay in some NES countries, comparing these to Thai NES pay scales and adjusting for cost-of-living, I would say that many or most NES teachers here are on a better deal than back home, but of course if and when they repatriate their savings (ahem) they will not be worth much in their high-cost countries.

Of course they are. They wouldnt come to asia to teach if they werent immediately a few steps above the ladder in some way or another. But this a phyric victory. Now go google what happens when they repatriate to their home country and suddenly find those years they spent tefling for no particular savings gain has not only cost them however many years of their career ladder in a decent job AND the money they need to pay back to even retain a liveable pension into their retiremement. Its running away from your problems if you arent activily saving and contributing to your future.

Now also go google the pay in china, japan and korea. And adjusting for cost of living, (having now lived in all four on the lowest run of the ladder in each working in govt schools exclusively):

Actually, ill save you the bother, heres what ive learned thus far:

Japan - Base salary: 230,000. Pro rata usually (term time only with reduced pay december/january; march/april, and August (school holidays). Contracts are extremely punitive. Sick days = unpaid leave (you lose 10,000 yen) and i also lost my 'contract completion bonus' any time i took one (10,000 yen/month - which is actually part of the advertised salary - meaning your salary is actually 220,000). Sanctions could also be applied at the drop of a hat (they never were to me, fact fans). Its not a great contract to be honest. But... well, its japan innit!

Savings per month? About 20-60,000yen depending on subsidised apartments. No subsidised apartments and youre paying through the nose for housing. Throw in national health and pension (refunded) which is an extra 30,000 out of your salary and you can see its going to be tough if youre on less than 240,000 to really start saving should the dice be rolling a little against you. For example, i was on 230,000 in saitama. Lets say i took one day off from sickness - thats now 210,000. Lets say i was paying for my own leo palace apartment, thats another 45,000, lets add in the health insurance and pension system - thats another 30,000, and then theres tax and admin - thats another 10,000. So that leaves me with 125,000yen/month to live on. Even at best i was really needing about 120,000/month. So its kinda tight. Now throw in that youre being pro rata'd for 5 of those months. Some are maybe a week of lost wages (10,000/working day), and some are almost the entire month. You can see that its getting far trickier. Now imagine youve done your two years and want a change. Hope you have your key money saved up (as well as the money youre about to lose from 1 month salary when youre unemployed between the holidays)!

Opportunity for progression? A few of my friends are direct hirees. Its not an easy gig to get. Its possible, but most likely youre bouncing from school to school and going sideways.

Extra note: Due to extreme pressure on open bidding, salary has been on a downward trajectory for the last 7 or 8 years. It used to be 250,000 base with normal benefits when i was first in the country. Thats been slowly eroding. Id actually be tempted to suggest that the base salary is closer to 220 than 230.

Korea - Base salary (EPIK/Smoe/GEPIK - theres no dispatch): 2.2 million won. With any experience at all its 2.4. All benefits included, full remuneration - no pro rata. Holiday pay and GOOD holidays (ah those winters of riding around niseko and nagano!). Free apartment... actually pretty much free everything.

Savings: Its EASY AS HELL to save $1000US/month. You kinda top out at $1500 if youre really going for it. But brilliant place for saving cash.

Progression: Sideways again, but Epik will have a payscale taking you to 2.6/month. Plus a rural bonus and you might be on 2.7-2.8. Really, just as everywhere else, you want progression you go into hagwons and private academies.

China - Base Salary? I honestly have no idea. Its my first job here, but i think its around 8,000/month. You get many of the benefits in korea, and the cost of living is lower. Unlike korea (and japan), demand for teachers in a city is still so high theres no downward pressure on wages in places like beijing or shanghai. My contract though is a little more punitive and restrictive than my korean contract. Public holidays are paid for, but even to this day im still not sure if i actually have paid vacations... sounds odd i know... i get a housing 'subsidy', and i get my air fare reimbursed (at the end of my contract - as well as a one month severance bonus), but to maintain my contract i must teach 25 classes/week since the school will only pay for the classes i teach (at 100RMB/class).

Savings: Ive been living a relatively frugal life since coming here. 3000 is a bit tough to be honest. Its doable, but youre going nowhere except your job and your house. Id say instead youd probably need 4000 for an okay lifestyle. Not restrictive and a little to blow out now and again. 5-6000 if you want to tour around a bit and maybe travel to shanghai or beijing or the jade dragon mountain or snowboard. Cost of living is low enough. You shouldnt honestly need more than that unless youre flying outside the country for your holidays. So savings can be abywhere from about 3000RMB to 8000RMB (im on 12,000 - though yet to see a full pay cheque thanks to loans i needed to take with the company to set up - 4 months rent in advance and a few other bits and bobs). This means anywhere from $500 to $1300/month.

Progression: Dunno, couldnt tell you. Im trying to blag it in my head. But i honestly dont know.

Thailand: Base salary - 30,000baht/month. I genuinely dont think my contract was particularly evil. It was pro rata though and since thailand takes such EPIC holidays in April/May and September/october, thats gonna hurt. Dont have a clue if thats the norm or not, but wasnt willing to stick around and find out. Pay was on time, no problems. No random deductions eaither. Salary was 32,000, pay was 32,000. That was nice.

Savings: I lived in Trat. I didnt have all that much to do. It was rainy season, any weekend plan to head to cambodia, koh chang, or just get on a bike and see whats out there was ALWAYS nuked by the rain. So i bought local, i didnt bother with weekends to bangkok or pattaya, so comfortably had about 15,000/month savings. Im fairly certain that a weekend or two away would have dropped that sum to about 10,000. But you CAN save around half of a base level salary without too much issue. I admit, i did have nice cheap rent though (3000), so that probably helped as well. Maybe you can save more. But i think 15,000.month is sort of pushing it without a thai significant other.

Progression: Unlike in all the other three, the one BIG advantage of thailand seems to be that if youre a good teacher, you can go direct hire and see your pay increase with your service. It just doesnt really work like that in japan at all. It does work like that on epik, but theres a hard cap at 2.6, and in china, no idea. But ive read more than enough accounts of people going from 30,000 in their first job, to 50,000 to 80,000 and honestly, at 80,000 thats pretty sweet. Thailand on 80,000 would be paradise i reckons. I mean it puts you at a similar BASE LEVEL wage as the other three, but its in the sun, its thailand and all its craziness, and the cost of living comparatively is so low that youd have to build your own money pit like scrooge mcduck to keep it in. Ah, the financial dreams of an esler. So humble!

So whats the point, well its this... At the base level, which is where most eslers are and shall forever remain until they return (unless they really really really want a career out of it), the simple fact is that thailand is far and away the WORST place to go with japan running second, china in third, and korea as teh best.

As you move up the greasy pole though, both japan and korea cap out pretty hard and often require a switch to private language schools (eikaiwa, juku and hagwons - particularly in specialised testing). China, i dunno, but thailand starts coming into its own a bit more ESPECIALLY if you were the one to go door to door (or school to school) in that initial phase and arent tied in with a recruiter.

By the time you are experienced enough not only does thailand offer you a great package, it also offers you so much more opportunities than the others in terms of TYPES of schooling AND (very importantly) in terms of ACCESS to cheap retraining. This cant be overplayed enough. With some decent savings to tide you over for a bit you can shimmy up that ladder. In japan and korea, the schools exist, but theyre expensive, very specific to the biggest cities and often at terrible times of the year.

Consider as well that Japan/korea obvioulsy have international schools, but they arent anywhere near as common as thailands for example, and if you want to work for one, youre going to need QTS to be honest or have good luck. You can also work in a uni in korea, but again, more and more unis are demanding accredited publications (quite right too!). The three follow a very similar trajectory in all sincerity. Korea is japan ten years late, and china by all accounts is korea when it was wild wild west with great packages ten years ago. Thailand seems on its own trajectory to an extent because of, if anyone, the tefl backpacking industry coupled to a mainstream education system that is... and lets be fair here, struggling to deliver. It created a different set of conditions. Which gives rise to a completely unique set of results. But at that base level it GENUINELY sucks (compared to the other three). And since the sheer brunt of ESLers in the world are forever to remain on that bottom ladder because they dont want a career in the industry, obviously for them, its a big part of their greivances and will be a legitimate point of their complaint. I know and you know that they just dont see beyond their noses a bit, but i know, and you dont know, that they do need to repatriate and they do need to have savings and they do need their money to travel. So it cant just be dismissed as trivial complaining. Its a bit of an issue if you do wnat to pull quality teachers over from China, korea and japan. Theyd come for the holiday in teh sun for sure, but the wages? Hell no. And thats why remuneration is an issue that people talk about.

Edited January 1, 2014 by weecree

[expat888]

I know that there's a lot of information on the net, but I'd kindly like to ask some serious questions.

I went to see some friends in a neighboring province last weekend and I've heard that many who're working as teachers right now seem to have huge problems next year in May to stay employed.

Some are on their second "provisional" teacher's license, or "waiver." The latest I've heard from the TCT was that they only issue two of them, then teachers have to come up with a degree in education.

Sirchai:

All this is true and you can only have 2 waivers. If teachers are completing their second waiver it's possible that they will be terminated without warning. That happened to one teacher in my school last year. I am told by my foreigner teacher coordinator that the Ministry of Education is upping the pressure on schools to hire and maintain only people with education degrees. If you have a non-o marriage visa, they might try to keep you under the radar and not obtain a work permit for you keeping you employed. Of course, this is illegal and a risk.

IMO: They may get what they ask for and find themselves in a teacher shortage. The Thais seldom consider the consequences of their actions.

[expat888]

I had lunch yesterday with a local school director and she confirms that the maximum number of waivers is 2. However, if the teacher meets the requirement of having a degree then no waiver is necessary. I'm sure I'm just restating what some other posters have said already.

Yes if teachers meet the requirements for a full Thai teacher's license then it's easy. But the requirement isn't just to have a degree, they need:

A degree in education + Thai culture course

Or

A degree in any field + Thai culture course + passed 4x teachers license exams

Or

a degree in any field + Thai Culture Course + a graduate diploma in education/ teaching profession taking at least one year of study.

Or

a degree in any field + Thai Culture Course + one year teaching in a Thai school + teaching certification from your own country.

[bundoi]

@weecree, actually I was making a light-hearted aside about a thread which started about waivers but morphed (as usual) into remuneration ;-)

Anyone whose main motivation is money and who chose teaching as a career presumably was lacking decent career advice back in their teens.

Poor pay is an unavoIdable corollary of teaching; it's one of the reasons I chose a more highly paid profession as a young man; another reason is that I didn't think it would be interesting or demanding enough for me.

[simon43]

Poor pay is an unavoIdable corollary of teaching

I don't agree. Some teachers/educators receive a very attractive package. It is all down to qualifications, experience and a good dose of luck

Simon

[bundoi]

Poor pay is an unavoIdable corollary of teaching

I don't agree. Some teachers/educators receive a very attractive package. It is all down to qualifications, experience and a good dose of luck

Simon

Some teachers have better packages than other teachers, but even the more highly paid teachers are paid pretty poorly compared to most other professions; that's one of the many reasons I chose one of the other professions.

This is not a secret; it is common knowledge that can be confirmed in any of the comparative pay analyses that you might find in a decent quality newspaper.

[uptheos]

...they can just hire 'teachers' with fake diplomas from a neighboring country.....and send the whole learning process back 50 years.....

...they will save some money at the expense of the students' educations....

...then the phonies...... who have their nation behind them endorsing those fake diplomas ........will put the squeeze on......

Not necessarily, I've encountered a lot of 'native' English speakers and I can't understand them!

[culicine]

I'm on 30 k but much worse off than anyone taking the OP's 25 k offer in the now closed thread. Why? No pay during the hols, which will start in March. That will be 2.5 months without income.

Add the cost of Visa runs. I just returned from Vientiane (man, it's cold in Udon Thani to hang out at the train station for hours, waiting for the #77 train to Nong Khai to come). I offered to give the school a signed resignation letter in exchange for a contract till February 2015. These silly Visa runs will cost more than 10 grand from now till May 2014.

I'm likely to be one of the horde who would need a 3rd waiver. But the TCT seems to be having some kind of a cynical "master-plan" in place. Maybe all those who assume they really want all students' English to improve are mistaken?

Referring to the last part of your post only. I think that TCT announced their evil plan quite clearly. It was to raise the standard of the members of the professional teaching body to a basic B. Ed/ PGCE/ Qualified teacher status as a minimum. This was for Thais and foreigners alike. Whether or not this was realistic is another matter that is actually kind of on topic.

It's a LOT less work to pass the 4 Thai licencing exams, than it is to do a PGCE/Grad Dip, etc. I spent 4 years part time, 10 hours a week doing a Grad Dip. Another teacher passed the 4 exams in two attempts by doing some internet research on the topics over a few weeks. This was despite the exams are so poorly written. There's no comparison, no matter what the Krusapha may think.

[SlyAnimal]

It's a LOT less work to pass the 4 Thai licencing exams, than it is to do a PGCE/Grad Dip, etc. I spent 4 years part time, 10 hours a week doing a Grad Dip. Another teacher passed the 4 exams in two attempts by doing some internet research on the topics over a few weeks. This was despite the exams are so poorly written. There's no comparison, no matter what the Krusapha may think.

/agree

I think Krusapa must realize this as well but at some point there must have been a shortage of teachers so they allowed the exams to make up the numbers. Or maybe they are just slowly bringing in more strict regulations so as to not unqualify 80% of their existing teachers at the same time.

In the future maybe they will require a graduate diploma or similar (even if the teacher already passed their exams) in order for teachers to renew their 5 year license. But that's just idle speculation lol.

Thai teachers can get their graduate diploma in just 1 year, only studying on the weekends. If they offered the same course in English it'd probably be worth looking into for teachers. As although the exams are easier, it would be a much higher qualification (and faster, as the exams often only come around once a year and are difficult to pass all in one go). A Thai graduate diploma might even be recognized in other countries if you did it through a decent university.

[culicine]

It's a LOT less work to pass the 4 Thai licencing exams, than it is to do a PGCE/Grad Dip, etc. I spent 4 years part time, 10 hours a week doing a Grad Dip. Another teacher passed the 4 exams in two attempts by doing some internet research on the topics over a few weeks. This was despite the exams are so poorly written. There's no comparison, no matter what the Krusapha may think.

/agree

I think Krusapa must realize this as well but at some point there must have been a shortage of teachers so they allowed the exams to make up the numbers. Or maybe they are just slowly bringing in more strict regulations so as to not unqualify 80% of their existing teachers at the same time.

In the future maybe they will require a graduate diploma or similar (even if the teacher already passed their exams) in order for teachers to renew their 5 year license. But that's just idle speculation lol.

Thai teachers can get their graduate diploma in just 1 year, only studying on the weekends. If they offered the same course in English it'd probably be worth looking into for teachers. As although the exams are easier, it would be a much higher qualification (and faster, as the exams often only come around once a year and are difficult to pass all in one go). A Thai graduate diploma might even be recognized in other countries if you did it through a decent university.

I thought ABAC's education courses are accredited, and I think some of the Rajabhat courses too. I've never really looked into it, but feedback from other teachers is that they did not want to lose every weekend for many months do a courses. I just interpret that as them not being too keen to get the qualification. When push comes to shove, they may well have to do a course, as the exams seem quite difficult to pass - only one teacher has passed all four exams at my school. The majority of the other qualified teachers, apart from her and myself, are Filipinos. If rules do not change, I envisage many farang teachers not qualifying for any more renewal of provisional licences - and hence having to quit the school, finding another job, and starting the procedure again. Krusapha may even crack down on that, so that once 4 years is up, they won't be able to teach in any regular school here. The will be a shame as we have a number of good teachers who don't have formal teaching qualifications, as do many other schools.

[sirchai]

Sawasdee khrap and hello,

I've found the link to Kurusapa again, where anyone can check their status. (Old hard drive died pretty young after only five months)

The main reason for my post was that I'd be okay until May 2016, but I'm considering to find employment in my province where I'm living, going back and forth on Mondays and Fridays, plus I'm also a sort of fed up with all the circumstances at our school.

Then I'd have to do something immediately.Always good to be one step ahead.

Will go to the temple now and ask a monk for advice, or maybe just have a beer,or two near the temple.

Of course all World Class Standard bs, included five guys who can't speak, read, or write in English properly, which leaves only two of us the whole work. .

Note: When using a Google Chrome browser, you'll have the option to translate the webpage into English.But it also works well with other browsers, as instructions are in English.

Full name in capital letters, or your passport number. Good day.

Cheers-

TCT website to check waiver status.docx

[Sabot]

Any further news on this topic? Also, a couple of questions:

1. Will a Master's in Physical Education be considered acceptable for a teaching license? In other words, do they consider a physical education degree an "education" degree?

2. If teachers are suddenly fired, and never given any written notice, will the fired teacher be eligible for severance pay?

[Scott]

A degree in Basket weaving education from an approved school would be an education degree and would be valid.

Physical education is important and the degree is acceptable.