Grace

[Neeranam]

I've never heard any Thai word for "grace". Is there one?

I believe โพธิสมภาร means 'the King's grace".

The context I'm looking for is "but for the Grace of God, there go I"

[tgeezer]

My dictionary doesn't invoke God in its translation.

ถ้าโชคไม่ดีฉันก็จะอยู่ในสภาพเดียวกันก็ได้

[txp158]

Grace => the free and unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings

I'm a Buddhist not a christian but I takes it's the opposite of sin. We have a clear definition of sin in Thai, I'm sure you can find the translation somewhere. If not, it's บาป.

Now all you need to do is ask Thai people what the antonym of sin is in Thai and that would be your definition of grace (according to the Buddhist belief).

If you really want to know grace according to the christian bible, you can't ask any Thai. You need to go to church and ask people there.

[kriswillems]

I would use คุณ/คุณธรรม for grace in general and พุทธคุณ for the grace of Buddha and พระคุณของพระเจ้า for the grace of God.

(grace in the meaning "instance of kindness or goodness", not grace in the meaning "a special favor" or "mercy")

Maybe the Grace of God can be translated as : คุณธรรมของพระเจ้า or พระคุณของพระเจ้า

To be honest, I am not very sure what the "grace of God" means in English.

For grace in the meaning of a (special) favor you can use : อุปการะคุณ

For grace in the meaning of mercy you can use: กรุณาคุณ

For grace in the meaning of a pardon you can use: การอภัยโทษ

Edited December 26, 2013 by kriswillems

[Neeranam]

I would use คุณ/คุณธรรม for grace in general and พุทธคุณ for the grace of Buddha and พระคุณของพระเจ้า for the grace of God.

(grace in the meaning "instance of kindness or goodness", not grace in the meaning "a special favor" or "mercy")

Maybe the Grace of God can be translated as : คุณธรรมของพระเจ้า or พระคุณของพระเจ้า

To be honest, I am not very sure what the "grace of God" means in English.

For grace in the meaning of a (special) favor you can use : อุปการะคุณ

For grace in the meaning of mercy you can use: กรุณาคุณ

For grace in the meaning of a pardon you can use: การอภัยโทษ

Thanks Kris, given me a lot to think about and actually I'm confused now myself as to the exact meaning of the Grace of God.

I think the best might be อุปการะคุณ

I'm thinking it now more like 'mercy'.

Maybe ความกรุณาปรานี ??

I thought คุณธรรม was more like 'morally good' which is not what I think of Grace as.

[Neeranam]

Grace => the free and unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings

I'm a Buddhist not a christian but I takes it's the opposite of sin. We have a clear definition of sin in Thai, I'm sure you can find the translation somewhere. If not, it's บาป.

Now all you need to do is ask Thai people what the antonym of sin is in Thai and that would be your definition of grace (according to the Buddhist belief).

If you really want to know grace according to the christian bible, you can't ask any Thai. You need to go to church and ask people there.

Thanks, but I don't think 'Grace is the opposite of 'sin'.

I'd really like to translate it using สิ่งศักดิ์สิทธิ์ .

[Mole]

Perhaps พรของพระเจ้า?

This would imply that the meaning of "grace" is similar to "blessing".

Opposite of บาป is บุญ, but I don't think neither is correct for "grace".

พระคุณของพระเจ้า sounds most correct for me of what's been suggested so far.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Mole

[txp158]

Grace => the free and unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings

I'm a Buddhist not a christian but I takes it's the opposite of sin. We have a clear definition of sin in Thai, I'm sure you can find the translation somewhere. If not, it's บาป.

Now all you need to do is ask Thai people what the antonym of sin is in Thai and that would be your definition of grace (according to the Buddhist belief).

If you really want to know grace according to the christian bible, you can't ask any Thai. You need to go to church and ask people there.

Thanks, but I don't think 'Grace is the opposite of 'sin'.

I'd really like to translate it using สิ่งศักดิ์สิทธิ์ .

Uhm..as a native speaker, สิ่งศักดิ์สิทธิ์ would sound wierd. I don't know. Why don't you write down your complete translation first? And we'll see if it's alright.

Thai language is closely tied to buddhism but not christianity. From reading the meaning of grace as described by many native english speakers here, I doubt we Thai have a special word made for grace in the context of christianity. You'll probably need to combine different words in Thai in order to appropriately convey the true meaning of grace.

Edited December 27, 2013 by txp158

[tgeezer]

Grace => the free and unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings

You'll probably need to combine different words in Thai in order to appropriately convey the true meaning of grace.

This definition was correct in this context. It is used when someone has got into trouble and we comment that 'There, but for the grace of God go I'

Our freedom from consequences of an equal sin which we are quite capable of committing, or have committed, is unmerited and Christians consider that a favour from God, others might say that they are not fated or that it is a matter of luck.

My dictionary has treated it as non religious.

The same word 'grace' would be translated differently perhaps if religion were invoked;

"By the grace of the God." -โดยพระมหากรุณธิคุณของพระผู้เป็นเจ้า. is the translation in my dictionary for that. Not everyday Thai and probably confusing to anyone who didn't know Christian culture.

For 'Fall from grace' ไม่ได้รับความชึ่นชนอีกตอไป .

[AyG]

From the God-botherers' 1000 Word List at http://bencrowder.net/downloads/lang/ThousandWordList.pdf there's a sentence that seems relevant to the discussion:

My grace is sufficient for the meek
พระคุญของเราเพียงพอสําหรับคนใจออนโยน
phráʔkhun khɔ̌ɔŋ raw phiaŋphɔɔ sǎmràb khon cay ʔɔ̀ɔnyoon

I think this is suggesting that the grace is ours - given to us by God - rather than belonging to God.

Edited December 30, 2013 by AyG

[txp158]

I googled the phrase there, for the grace of god, goes I and found the original has no I but the name, John Bradford, who appears to be an english matyr. Bradford stated "there, for the grace of God, goes John Bradford" when he saw a group of prisoners who were led to execution. Can someone tell me what he meant by saying that? Is he talking to himself or god or just announcing his thought to the other prisoners?

can someone rephrase this old english sentence into modern english so a native thai speaker like me can appreciate how it has become a proverb?

[AyG]

I googled the phrase there, for the grace of god, goes I and found the original has no I but the name, John Bradford, who appears to be an english matyr. Bradford stated "there, for the grace of God, goes John Bradford" when he saw a group of prisoners who were led to execution. Can someone tell me what he meant by saying that? Is he talking to himself or god or just announcing his thought to the other prisoners?

can someone rephrase this old english sentence into modern english so a native thai speaker like me can appreciate how it has become a proverb?

He wasn't talking to God or to the prisoners, but to himself. What he was trying to say was "it might have been I who is going to be executed, but thanks to God's kindness/forgiveness I'm safe".

(There's a "but" missing from your quotation = "there, but for the grace of God".)

The prisoners being led to be executed weren't usual criminals, they were heretics (i.e. people who don't "do" religion in the same way as the official version). He's thanking God for showing him (what he believes is) the one, true version of religion - not the false, twisted, mistaken version of the heretics.

[Edited to show the prisoners were heretics, rather than standard criminals.]

Edited December 30, 2013 by AyG

[bannork]

'It could have been me, but thanks to god it wasn't'- often used when people think they could easily have been victims too, but for some reason-destiny,, chance, some factor not due to their own efforts, they escaped such a tragedy.

I would translate is as -' thanks to fate,chance I.......'

There's a lovely Thai word for 'graceful'- (nothing to do with this thread but I'm sure Neeranam will forgive me what with it being New Year, Scottish Independence around the corner,etc)- referring to the graceful style of Thai dance- อ่อนช้อย

[Acharn]

I find that what the people around me believe is not the same as what I learn of Buddhism in books, so my opinion here may not be an accurate reflection of Thai culture. Also I'm not an authority on the Thai language. However, as I understand it, the Buddha taught that there is no way to extinguish suffering other than by your own efforts. In a way, this is very liberating, because we are no longer at the mercy of the whims of an unpredictable God. A corollary is that you cannot hope for a God to save you from misfortune. Thus, there should be no concept of (heavenly) grace in Buddhism or Thai culture (and thus, not in Thai language either). Now Buddhism has hundreds of different cults, and the two main divisions, Theravada and Mahanaya, differ quite a lot. Mahanaya includes a lot of Bodhisattvas whom you can pray to for favors, like Christian saints, and a couple of the Japanese schools that I've read about are very faith-based. The few occasions I've read about the King showing mercy, or granting a pardon, the language has referred to his generosity, or his compassion. I know Thais pray to Buddha and to Brahma, and surely to other gods and spirits, but I don't know how they justify that. I'm sure there are suttas I haven't read yet that explain it.

What I'm trying to get at is that I suspect there is no equivalent word in Thai. You should find the phrase the Thais use to express the same feeling and use it.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Acharn