Christians, Christians, Christians, Will You Ever Learn?

[jdinasia]

psssst .. it aint about the USA here ... and other than Penxy's poor choice of wording in the thread title it IS about censorship of a movie

[Prasert]

Where was this complaint from the christians sent to?

I want to file one myself, which should result in red letters on the front of each bible sold in LOS saying: This book is fiction, not facts.

Same goes for the Koran and other religious books.

[JemJem]

I am no Marxist but good old Marx said it well when he said "Religion is opiate for the masses".

Cheers,

Jem

[Insight]

cclub75, I agree with you completely.

There's been many religious groups around the world complaining about this film. It's the itchy trigger fingered Thai censorship bodies that succumbed under pressure, if you could call it that. And so far, Thailand is the only country to do so.

The intention of the Thai censorship bodies was probably to show the world how respectful they are of other religions. Truth be told however, it will no doubt demonstrate how completely thin-skinned they really are.

First complete pirated version I see will be getting purchased. Hollywood flashes a lot more cash than Christianity, Thailand, sure you don’t want to reconsider?

[jdinasia]

The presumption of the movie is really based on the pretty much missing 30 years of the "Christ's" life

Nowhere did it say he was celebate ... you are just expected to believe that. So IF he did happen to have a child .... the Church <Roman Catholic> would have known and kept the secret at the highest level ... and the results 2000 years later are ....

this is a bit of what would be called "historical fiction" ... or for the complete non believers .... fiction fiction .... then the results ....

Kinda like "what if Hitler didn't really die"

[suegha]

Where was this complaint from the christians sent to?

I want to file one myself, which should result in red letters on the front of each bible sold in LOS saying: This book is fiction, not facts.

Same goes for the Koran and other religious books.

Now the above post is just silly! There are not words at the front saying 'this book is fact!' Like I said, threads like this just allow people to post prejudices. Why are people so 'evangelical' about their dislike of the bible?

[jdinasia]

Suegha ... I am careful NOT to criticise religions (though some of the adherants are sure fair game)

BUT to be fair ... why shouldn't the Bible be labeled "some people believe this to be the "UNADULTERATED WORD OF GOD... Some people think this book is divinely inspired ... and Some people think it is just a book of fiction and not all that good in how it tells people to react to each other"?

oh .. I know why not ... too wordy!

[Prasert]

Now the above post is just silly! There are not words at the front saying 'this book is fact!' Like I said, threads like this just allow people to post prejudices. Why are people so 'evangelical' about their dislike of the bible?

I agree. The bible doesn't state that it's content is based on facts.

But my post has nothing to do with dislike of the bible. It has to do with the fact that every religion on this world has finally resulted in wars. Take a look at christian history: while the church had a lot of power, people were kept unknown. About 500 years this all started to change, when science finally managed to take bits and more bits of the chuch's power.

The Vatican hated the scientists, and you don't need to read the Da Vince Code to learn about that.

Basically, that is the message of this book. The story about marriage and a possible daughter may be romantic fiction. But that's exactly what all christian leader pick out to complain about!

They don't complain about the fact that the church indeed lost their power to science.

And if the Vatican truly is honest like the bible prescribes, why are they so extremely anxious in keeping their secrets? Why is there so much wealth while so many people (just take Italy for example) around them are so poor?

To my opinion, the Vatican is one of the best criminal organisations in this world (but then again, it's just a personal opinion).

Religion is about power. Power in controlling what people know and are allowed to think. Fear is the way to achieve that power.

Although it's been several ages since the christian church had total power, you can see exactly the same thing in Iran at the moment: Islamic religious leaders having total power over their people. The way they achieve it: fear Allah. That's basically their message. And they use a book to show the people why their rules are right. You are not to question the book nor discuss it.

And if their religious leaders say 'burn the Danish embassy and boycot their products', no muslim will question that or think about it for himself. Indoctrination.

Back to this movie. The Vatican already banned the book, telling the christian world not to read it. With the censorship on this movie, they clearly show that they are afraid to loose even more power.

Maybe the book of Dan Brown is fiction, but so is the bible in exactly the same way. But the church will never admit to that.

Edited May 16, 2006 by Prasert

[suegha]

Suegha ... I am careful NOT to criticise religions (though some of the adherants are sure fair game)

BUT to be fair ... why shouldn't the Bible be labeled "some people believe this to be the "UNADULTERATED WORD OF GOD... Some people think this book is divinely inspired ... and Some people think it is just a book of fiction and not all that good in how it tells people to react to each other"?

oh .. I know why not ... too wordy!

I don't think the bible should be labeled with anything! It's the text within which should speak to people, not labelling. Having READ the text it is then up to the reader to consider it fact or fiction, and I will respect that view. However, I have come across so many 'anti-bible' types who admit they have never read it! Now I find that strange...

[jdinasia]

why should that surprise you?

I've read it ... and find it terribly flawed ...

People that haven't meet people like you. There is an old saying ... "lead a holy life because the life of a Christian may be the only Bible that a person ever sees"

The fact that I think it is a fabrication doesn't mean anything ... a label wouldn't either ...

[Guest endure]

Now the above post is just silly! There are not words at the front saying 'this book is fact!' Like I said, threads like this just allow people to post prejudices. Why are people so 'evangelical' about their dislike of the bible?

I agree. The bible doesn't state that it's content is based on facts.

But my post has nothing to do with dislike of the bible. It has to do with the fact that every religion on this world has finally resulted in wars.

Can you tell us some of the wars that have resulted from Buddhism?

[sriracha john]

Ten last minutes of Da Vinci Code screening in Thailand to be censored

A police censorship committee will cut the ten last minutes of the controversial The Da Vinci Code film before allowing it to be screened in Thailand on May 18.

The film distributor also agreed to print a warning at the beginning of the film that the movie was a fiction, not fact.

Terrific solution.

How many of the great mystery movies (I don't know if it actually falls into that category of movie genre, but from what I've gathered, it does) have the climax revealed in the last 10 minutes?

Many...

With quite a few movies, the whole crux of the movie is contained within that time frame.

The all important "who," the "what," or the "how," etc. often come out at the very end.

sheesh...

will they at least put forth a notice at the beginning of the movie (perhaps after the "this movie is fiction" notice) warning the public that the last 10 minutes have cut out???

and... if it's not too blasphemous....at the end of the movie, could they at least have a quick written synopsis of the scenes left out so that one might make sense of the entire movie???

I somehow envision the entire movie reaching a very critical point.......and then POOF!!!

the movie credits start rolling by...

[Johpa]

Now the above post is just silly! There are not words at the front saying 'this book is fact!' Like I said, threads like this just allow people to post prejudices. Why are people so 'evangelical' about their dislike of the bible?

I agree. The bible doesn't state that it's content is based on facts.

But my post has nothing to do with dislike of the bible. It has to do with the fact that every religion on this world has finally resulted in wars.

Can you tell us some of the wars that have resulted from Buddhism?

Wars do not arise from religion. Wars are about control of resources: populations, natural resources, trade routes, etc. But since people are loath to risk their lives for the profits of others, religion is often called into play, the great smoke screen from above. Buddhists nations do have a slightly better track record. But Emperor Ashoka was not without military conquests. As far as the Buddhist countries in Southeast Asia, they are still at each others throats after centuries of intermittent warfare. I belive Ayuttaya serves as a prime example.

[Kerryd]

Hahaha, the last 10+ minutes of most movies these days are the credits !!!!

Cutting off those 10 minutes would be no loss, as everyone usually leaves when the credits start rolling any ways.

That's what we were talking about in this thread, wasn't it ?

[dekestone]

If Sony had any balls they would pull the movie from Thailand.

Let Thailand be the laughing stock for trying to cut the ending.

One would think the movie would be meaningless without the conclusion, no?

[dvk1951]

Where was this complaint from the christians sent to?

I want to file one myself, which should result in red letters on the front of each bible sold in LOS saying: This book is fiction, not facts.

Same goes for the Koran and other religious books.

Now the above post is just silly! There are not words at the front saying 'this book is fact!' Like I said, threads like this just allow people to post prejudices. Why are people so 'evangelical' about their dislike of the bible?

OK Suegha, fair enough, so lets take your 'logic' one more step.

The movie never claimed to be factual yet they are now introducing a disclaimer at the beginning of the movie stating that it is fiction.

I guess the same rules DO NOT apply to the goose and the gander.

[jdinasia]

at a guess ..... the movie will be shown in its entirety almost everywhere .... but that is JUST a guess ... they MAY cut the credits as has been suggested earlier

[siam-i-am]

at a guess ..... the movie will be shown in its entirety almost everywhere .... but that is JUST a guess ... they MAY cut the credits as has been suggested earlier

So to recap Christians ask Thai police to ban a movie, where do these Christians live? I can think of a million things more important to the well being of all souls in this country than a piece of film. Meanwhile my girl friend who's shown no interest in the film what so ever now wants to see it. My guess these Christians are major shareholders in Sony, and haven't the boys in brown got anything better to do? We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked.

[PeaceBlondie]

I probably agree completely with suegha on this issue, and let me take off my moderator's dunce cap for this thread, since I've got an opinion.

1. This kind of thread, about Christianity, is a delight for the bashers of ALL organized religion, including the Buddhist religion. Go back and look at how some of these outrageously hateful posts are bashing Buddhism without saying so. In my not so humble opinion.

2. If you or your loved ones were raped by priests or fiddled by ministers, my heart goes out to you. If, however, you merely reached adulthood with a rabid, raging hatred for Christianity, I have no sympathies for your hatred. Some bashers of religion have their own super-evangelical cause of bashing all religion. In other words, your religion is to hate all the others, which makes your belief no better than those you criticize.

3. Christianity, and several other religions, have made countless inexcusable errors as organized religions. We make no efforts to excuse those errors; we condemn those errors, realizing that we, too, are sinners.

4. Billions of sane, rational, decent, more or less moral, reasonably educated people in the world follow religions that are 'organized.' Many of these believers are not devout, but so what? Most of these believers are not fervent spreaders of their faith. Most Christians who are evangelicals do very little personal evangelism. Evangelists are, in fact, a very small portion of the professional Christians.

5. Take the Bible, or leave it alone, or bash it if you wish. I have just as much 'right' to criticize your hatred of religious teachings, as you have to criticize religion. Non-Christian nations tend to attract expatriates who hate Christianity, and Thailand is generous to allow you here, so long as you don't specifically disparage Buddhism. Again, IMNSHO, I think some of the comments on this thread do so.

6. The "daVinci Code." I've not bothered to read it, and don't know if I'll bother to watch the movie (especially the censored one). I don't read much fiction, although I write a lot of it lately, including this post. It's just a movie, for goodness' sake. Am I concerned that it threatens my belief? No. Am I scared to see it, for fear that it will challenge my faith? No. My faith is challenged daily by participating in online forums, especially in Thailand.

7. Personally, I think the Thai Christian organizations over-reacted. However, they didn't ask for the recent movie based on the Chronicles of Narnia to be censored, did they? As if any child watching the Narnia movie would even understand it's a Christian allegory. The protestors have a point, that some Thais will watch the movie without reading the Bible, but that's not the fault of the non-Christian Thais. INMNSOpinion, evangelicals and missionaries in Thailand should present the message about the Prince of Peace in a better manner, including a manner that stresses that Jesus was a pacifist, and they need to denounce all bloodshed that was ever shed in the name of Jesus. In my overly arrogant opinion.

Okay, please carry on, bashing all you wish, although I seriously doubt that some of the comments do justice to the practice of Buddhism in this Kingdom. And, God bless you all.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I was at Church on Sunday - for the start ofthe new school term. During the service one of the eldersspoke about this film - and he definitely did not advocate not going to see the film. He said to be aware it was just a film and that should you watch it then your faith would be strengthened.

That was the Christian Church of Thailand.

[sriracha john]

Oh joy....Thailand's made the international news releases with a CNN Report...

"In Thailand, Christian groups demanded that government censors cut the film's final 15 minutes, fix subtitles that are supposedly disrespectful to Jesus and screen messages before and after the movie saying the content is fictional.

"If they are going to screen this, we asked that they cut out the conclusion of the movie that Jesus still has heirs alive today," said spokesman Manoch Jangmook, of the Evangelical Fellowship of Thailand."

- CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/05/...s.ap/index.html

btw... cutting the ending credits is not the final minutes of a film. The ending of the film itself is cut.

[tomchaam]

I suspect that the Christian censors are also trying to subvert postings to thaivisa since I have my last two attempts to post...censored!!!

I am going to get the whole big-big 99 baht DVD movie including the last ten or fifteen minutes, imported from Malaysia or China, with goofy and jokey subtitles on Sukhumvit on Friday or Saturday when I visit the Big Mango and then go to my favorite super-duper audio shop with its big screen to get the real truth about JC and Mary Mangoland! Oh it will be so rapturous!

[tomchaam]

P.S. I also have in my possession the Bangkok Inside Out book which was banned from Asia Books and Bookazine with threats of fines and jail time...and it is now on the book shelves in all the bookstores so the book ban was only temporary. And there is a rumor than Miss Universe who is coming to live in Thailand to encourage us to drink Singh beer will not be able to appear in public before 11:00 A.M. and will be censored again from appearing in public between the hours of 2:00 and 5:00 P.M. !!!

[sriracha john]

And there is a rumor than Miss Universe who is coming to live in Thailand to encourage us to drink Singh beer will not be able to appear in public before 11:00 A.M. and will be censored again from appearing in public between the hours of 2:00 and 5:00 P.M. !!!

Thread:

Rather Odd Selection For Beer Promoters, Singha Beer Chooses Beauty Queen And 2 Athletes

[jdinasia]

5. Take the Bible, or leave it alone, or bash it if you wish. I have just as much 'right' to criticize your hatred of religious teachings, as you have to criticize religion. Non-Christian nations tend to attract expatriates who hate Christianity, and Thailand is generous to allow you here, so long as you don't specifically disparage Buddhism. Again, IMNSHO, I think some of the comments on this thread do so.

Actually bashing "specifically disparaging" any Religion in Thailand violates the law

I probably should read through what I posted; but I think I avoided any disparaging remarks and kept it clean

I really think your faith is fine (no matter WHAT it is .... and I count Atheism as a faith since it also claims to be able to prove the unprovable).

My only issue here is that the loudest of the non-Buddhists ALL claim that they have they only way ... and that seems to violate the law too

Back to the movie .... I REALLY have been looking forward to this and will be sad if it is cut when I go to see it at the theaters!

[jdinasia]

I suspect that the Christian censors are also trying to subvert postings to thaivisa since I have my last two attempts to post...censored!!!

I am going to get the whole big-big 99 baht DVD movie including the last ten or fifteen minutes, imported from Malaysia or China, with goofy and jokey subtitles on Sukhumvit on Friday or Saturday when I visit the Big Mango and then go to my favorite super-duper audio shop with its big screen to get the real truth about JC and Mary Mangoland! Oh it will be so rapturous!

Tom ...

This is a MODERATED Forum ... We don't have Freedom of speach here ... if you want that .. spend your time effort and energy and create your own board ... if it is worth paying any attention to then you'll get people posting.

follow the rules and it won't be censored ... flaunt them and it will ... act more or less like a respectful adult human being and you'll never notice any censorship

Edited May 17, 2006 by jdinasia

[PREM-R]

I think this sums it up very well.

(bbc news website)There are those who will decry the film as an affront to Christian belief, a tissue of lies and fabrications and a lurid exercise in cynical exploitation.

The more they fulminate, though, the more they play into Sony's hands, unwittingly promoting the very movie they would have banished from our screens.

Far better, perhaps, to use the film as a springboard for constructive debate on the nature of religion and the way the Christ story still resonates after two millennia.

It is, after all, just a movie that - like Life of Brian, The Last Temptation of Christ and Gibson's Passion before it - is only as significant as we choose to make it.

There is no such thing as "Bad Publicity"!!!!

Read Full Article

[Plus]

If there was a similar movie about Buddha there's no chance it would be shown here at all. Thailand is a Buddhist nation and no subversion of Buddhism is allowed at all. Local Christians are just asking for the same rights.

Personally, I think prominently displayed disclaimers is enough and cutting actual scenes is too much.

[chuang]

Why all the fuss about THE DA VINCI CODE, if you are a true Christrian and beleive in the SON OF GOD, there is nothing to worry about, unless otherwise.

In Islam, muslims believe in killing non-muslims then they can go to their so-called heaven where seven virgins will be waiting for them at their disposal ...Do you BELIEVE

[sriracha john]

Colombia Pictures appeals cut on "The Da Vinci Code"

Columbia Pictures in Thailand on Wednesday appealed a ruling by Thai censorship board to cut the final 10 minutes of ``The Da Vinci Code'' film, police said on Wednesday.

The movie censors had ordered the cut following a meeting Tuesday with a coalition of Thai Christian groups protesting the content of the film.

"The (censorship) committee has ordered that final 10 minutes of the movie be cut, but the company appealed, so the committee is reconsidering again,'' Pol Lt Col Veera Dhethayu of the movie censor board told Associated Press.

Controversial Hollywood film "The Da Vinci Code" is scheduled to lauch on Thursday.

The decision by the Registration Division, which comes under the Police Department, was reached after a two-hour meeting at the division between officials from four Christian groups, a censorship committee under the division and officials from Columbia Pictures, which produced the film.

Chawana Phawakanant, a member of the censorship panel, said on Tuesday the final scenes in the film would be cut because they would have affected the faith of Christians. The panel also made a ruling on a number of conditions needed to be complied with by Columbia Pictures.

"A portion of the Thai subtitles deemed inappropriate would also be re-edited and there will be an explanation in Thai put on screen before the film begins telling viewers that the film is based on fiction," said Chawana, an academic in the mass journalism field.

Manoch Jaengmuk, chairman of the Evangelical Fellowship of Thailand, said certain scriptures in the Bible would also be displayed on screen both before the film begins and at the end.

The Christian groups will decide soon which scriptures will be chosen for the special screening.

AP and The Nation