PDRC to shut down Bangkok by end of next week

[dhrobertson]

Getting good governance seems to be an almost intractable problem for Thailand.

It will certainly require time and great care.

It's a fact that politicians the world over try to buy popularity and the chance of re-electrion through popular policies (I won't call it vote buying to separate this phenomenon from actual vote buying with cash which I have observed at first hand in the NE)

It's also a fact that corruption is a fact in most if not all societies.

However, one of the problems here is that these things are combined. Populist policies are designed to enable the politician to cream off huge sums for themselves. This is far more of an issue than politicians fiddling expenses for example.

I'm a democrat with a small d. Naturally, the ballot box is the route I would normally support. However, this will not resolve the problems here.

So how to get good governance?

Well, education for all is a precursor. Now please don't get touchy about this....

My wife and family come from the NE. I have realised, belatedly, that education standards there are embarrassingly poor. As a result, I moved the kids to schools in the South where standards are noticably higher. They had to drop back 2 years to be at the same level as the locals. Now that's not reasonable.

Universities are also generally poor and more like vocational schools. Making students wear uniform hardly get's the right message accross either. Professionaly, all of my Thai peers that are competant have benefitted from further time abroad at university.

A young Thai woman I know is a practising lawyer and training to be a barrister. I asked her what she would do if she was offered money to do something unethical. She said, after some thought, "if it would benefit my family, I would accept the bribe". How depressing is that? Even the educated young accept corruption.

Another issue would be a truly free press without ridiculous censorship laws or forbidden subjects.

But how to get around the core problem?

That is, Thai polticians are in it for personal gain only.

No sense of civil responsibility

It's too late to rely on an outside agent to impose a civil code based on hundreds of years of democracy with no need for a written constitution...........

So I guess we just have to wait and rely upon education and a free press......

In the meantime, lets keep the debate civil...

[englishoak]

people who will turn out in millions ???

he means 150,000!!

Funny, even you bought into the government misinformation. There were millions there believe me. There will be even more at the next rally. If the government is to lie to its people, even to dismiss the many voices of its citizens, then democracy is lost. A reboot is needed.

Dude ! the only ones claiming millions are dear leader and people like you, not one news media has estimated anything like a million let alone multiple. 150k is conservative but closer to the mark.

Keep it real, all governments lie to the people. You do a reboot every few years here .. nothing ever gets any cleaner. This will be no different either by election or by seizing power.

Democracy isnt lost it is yet to even fully exist here, what the mob is proposing is to destroy yet again what little it has.

I am keeping it real. Unless you been out there to see for yourself, you will know that the govt is lying to you and the world. You know that the govt can sue for slander if you publish a number that is not in line with Police estimate. Right...the police...I forgot how honest they are. Even on a matter of principle of report the true figure, the govt can't even do that. Ask yourself, has this govt been forth coming with information with the rice scheme?

If democracy is not here, then why are you worried about an attempt to fix the system. it's better than just going with the same broken wheel.

*sigh* i live in BKK i go out there every day and crowds always feel more than they are especially when in them.

Democracy is not here in full I said, there is too many taboos to call it the real deal. What you do have is a system but no one gives it the time to develop, too impatient. You dont wave a magic wand and itll all appears you develop and work at it.

What it dosnt need is to polarize this country and thats what the last decade has done here. Its the land of confusion and sadly moving in completely the wrong direction. This latest pretence at seizing control yet again makes a mockery of it all yet again... nothing changed the last time they took things by force and un democratic means and nothing will this time should it happen again.

[Yunla]

*sigh* i live in BKK i go out there every day and crowds always feel more than they are especially when in them.

Democracy is not here in full I said, there is too many taboos to call it the real deal. What you do have is a system but no one gives it the time to develop, too impatient. You dont wave a magic wand and itll all appears you develop and work at it.

What it dosnt need is to polarize this country and thats what the last decade has done here. Its the land of confusion and sadly moving in completely the wrong direction. This latest pretence at seizing control yet again makes a mockery of it all yet again... nothing changed the last time they took things by force and un democratic means and nothing will this time should it happen again.

The 'elephant in the room' is more a sort of big red woolly mammoth. Nobody much deals with the topic of the post-coup situation if Suthep gets his way. There will be a lot of seriously angry people who voted PTP. I feel they will be a lot more angry this time than in 2010, as the election of Yingluck was hailed around the world as a "giant step forward for all women in Asia" etc. it was a big deal in the worldwide media (wrongly imo) but they got their win, and she was popular around the world. Now if she or PTP is toppled, I think the voters who voted PTP will be much more outspoken in their anger.

[dhrobertson]

*sigh* i live in BKK i go out there every day and crowds always feel more than they are especially when in them.

Democracy is not here in full I said, there is too many taboos to call it the real deal. What you do have is a system but no one gives it the time to develop, too impatient. You dont wave a magic wand and itll all appears you develop and work at it.

What it dosnt need is to polarize this country and thats what the last decade has done here. Its the land of confusion and sadly moving in completely the wrong direction. This latest pretence at seizing control yet again makes a mockery of it all yet again... nothing changed the last time they took things by force and un democratic means and nothing will this time should it happen again.

The 'elephant in the room' is more a sort of big red woolly mammoth. Nobody much deals with the topic of the post-coup situation if Suthep gets his way. There will be a lot of seriously angry people who voted PTP. I feel they will be a lot more angry this time than in 2010, as the election of Yingluck was hailed around the world as a "giant step forward for all women in Asia" etc. it was a big deal in the worldwide media (wrongly imo) but they got their win, and she was popular around the world. Now if she or PTP is toppled, I think the voters who voted PTP will be much more outspoken in their anger.

So what do you propose?

Democracy without good governance is worthless

So just stick heads in sand with <deleted> in the air as usual?

Or try and make so changes?

[dhrobertson]

Is there a thread for serious debate on the issues?

Bored with trite infantile postings.....

[impulse]

Splitting the nation up would be a loss of Face that you could see from across the galaxy. It will never happen.

Also it is a bad idea, from a historical perspective. There is a lot of culture here that is uniquely Thai, certainly influenced by its neighbours, but it would be a terrible loss to the world to fragment it. Also the supernational offshore banking cartels / corporations who are running the world behind the scenes, their agenda is desovereignisation and fragmentation of nations into smaller easier-to-manage sub-states. Its a lot easier to deinsdustrialise and debt-slave a small broken-up sub-state, than it is to take on the might of a proud sovereign nation. Long live the Kingdom of Thailand.

Isaan has its own separate culture, its own belief system, its own language almost and even its own music.

Isaan is almost a culture away from the southern Thais.

And it's almost impossible for a Texan to understand someone from Boston, and for someone from Boston to understand the Texans' love of guns, humongous pickup trucks and BBQ. And NOBODY understands Californians.

Yet, somehow it works.

United States of Thailand, or Federation of Thai Provinces. Or, pick your own name.

Hmmmm....

[HAL9000]

More mob rule

[Yunla]

So what do you propose?

Democracy without good governance is worthless

So just stick heads in sand with <deleted> in the air as usual?

Or try and make so changes?

At the risk of repeating myself, as most of my last 100~ posts have been exactly about this problem, to summary ; there is no monolith on a hilltop, carved by God, which says exactly how parliamentary decisions should be reached, the system is open to customisation to suit a nation's needs. Most parliaments do have minor variations around the world. Thailand obviously has problems functioning with the current parliamentary build, so it should be augmented. Not scrapped. Fixed. The only thing required to fix it is enough interest at the levels of high state. Until people at the top start discussing with eachother on subjects like policy-blocking/queueing, domination-density, powers of PM, powers of ruling party, powers of speakers, rights of members, non-response / absence, etc. there will be no change until these problems are addressed. Some policies / bills should never be floored. All motions should be debated until they are basically consensus, or to a nexus-point that can be agreed outside of consensus.

These parliamentary augmentations are relatively minor, entirely healthy to true democracy, especially compared to decades of civil war. And can be acheived through discussion not bloodshed. The only question is, are people at the top willing to discuss changes that can move the country as a whole forward.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Yunla

[rebelplatoon]

Time for a business Government I would say. Both parties with justifiable seats in parliament. If I was Yingluck I'd choose for that and offer it right now. First put Thailand back on the map.

In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituencies. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). . So a Business cabinet with these numbers should be acceptable: 225 to 196 seats. This would be fair and exactly reflect the votes. It could stop this BS and get everyone working on ONE Thailand again.

[DocN]

Too many people only see this upcoming shutdown as an inconvenience to their own interests.

No pain no gain is what should be accepted by everyone, that is everyone interested in this country's political landscape changing for the better.

Khun Suthep should be receiving the support of everyone that wants to see a change for the better in Thailand

How can an unelected "peoples democratic coup" make things better, it will disenfranchise the majority of people, but perhaps you have a vested interest in "the good Khun Suthep" because from what I can see IMHO is a thug who will not stop until he has aquired the power he wants by any means and he will fight to the last drop of everyone elses blood to ensure gets it, once he holds power do you think he will ever hand it over to an elected body, no way ! he will always find another excuse to find "reds" under the bed so to speak to ensure the continuation of Suthep as the power broker just like in Russia when the president becomes the prime minister and swaps jobs eevery few years to prove its a democratic process. so manypeople have quoted "power corrupts" in these posts & that is what Suthep wants is absolute irrevocable power to change everything to his advantage, he is now totally out of control!

He doesn't want power - he is standing down from politics after he has sorted the Shinawatra's out and cleaned up the political scene, so how can he, as you are claiming, be seeking power??

It doesn't add up does it!! Seems that you wasted your time with your irrational rant.

Do you actually, seriously and whole-hearted believe this <deleted>?

[retsdon]

More mob rule

And that's a worry. Societies always take law and order and social cohesion for granted until they're gone. Then the job of restoring them is massive and takes years.

As I posted on another thread, I believe people are too sanguine about what's happening here. Political deadlock, a military paralyzed for fear of precipitating a major internal split, angry mobs on the street, the prime minister nowhere to be seen or heard and powerless to boot,....it's a witches brew for complete anarchy and social breakdown.

Of course, people will say that Thailand has been through all this political turmoil before, but I'm not so sure. It's like watching the build up to a Thai bar fight. Words, more words, scuffle, more words, finger pointing, raised voices, pushing, more words, more words again,and just when you think it's all so much piss and wind and is going to peter out- all hell breaks loose and people are literally trying to kill each other. I hope I'm wrong but I have a sense that the stuff before - yellow shirts, coups, red shirts, etc, were like the the raised words and scuffles - just hors d'oeuvres to build up momentum for the real thing.

The army is the real worry here. In the past it's always been able to put a clamp on things. I'm not so sure it can anymore without falling to pieces.

[leggo]

Exactly which week are we talking about week ending 4th and 5th or week ending 11th and 12th or sometime vaguely in 2014!? i ask as it seems the threats and victories seem to be getting somewhat more vague ev

ry time

[kaobang]

so shutthep finally admitted that even in bangkok many dont give a f..k about his "revolution".this people can go to relax at resorts,he said

i assume he will pay hotel to everyone

[DGIE]

Don't these people have jobs? US could probably muster up about a thousand jobless hippies for a good protracted protest.

or they could goto Dubai and learn business management as depicted in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q02Sukmte8

Justathought, I watch the video and those in their government are demons people. They have no heart towards other human.

[DGIE]

Exactly which week are we talking about week ending 4th and 5th or week ending 11th and 12th or sometime vaguely in 2014!? i ask as it seems the threats and victories seem to be getting somewhat more vague ev

ry time

yeah! that's why when Suthep speaks, wait for number 20 of his promises and maybe by that time, 1 will come true.

[shiok]

Don't be fooled, Suthep's supporters don't need

to be paid, they are fighting for their country!

[boomerangutang]

DMV (motor vehicle) registration was closed today, and probably tomorrow, and while they're at it, why not take the whole 5 day work week off with two weekends as bookends = 9 days, and add a few Christian holiday day-offs for fun, and......

I admit, I need to get some vehicles registered. By taking off the whole last part of December, they're forcing me and thousands of others, to be late in renewing registrations - so we will all be charged 'late fees' when we fight the crowds - at such time the bureaucrats decide to go back to their desks.

The Shinawatre government kills two birds by currently shutting down gov't offices many more days than usual.

(i) all bureaucratic workers will get more-than-usual number of paid days off. Whoopee!

(ii) it will try to take the steam out of the protests. In other words, if the bureaucrats are on paid vacations, why should they care if their buildings are closed off by protesters?

[mumjokmok]

How do people think the international news agencies will cover this?

I remember last time in 2010 the AJ's, BBC's and CNN's et al were quite tough on the Army once they decided to go in and put down the protests. I can recall watching an interview with Mr Korn where he struggled to be able to convince the BBC ( I think ) that sponsorship for the reds was coming from one T. $hinawatra. I stood in Ratchaprasong looking at which lucky waving cat Thaksin toy I was going to buy watching the live video feeds coming in to the fans.

If Mr Suthep wants to draw a coup, and if there is an alleged divide in perceived allegiances within the armed forces and police, it could become a situation where news stations may seemingly take one side again. Considering the different backgrounds of the groups involved and that this time yellow is demonstrating, do you think this time there will be a different light in the Western press or will the news agencies still potentially show red as underdog even though it is in government? Or will they show little patience with either side given the longevity of the issue?

(I'm not pro either side in this, I'm just putting this here because I'd be interested to see the opinions of readers. )

Edited December 30, 2013 by mumjokmok

[Scott]

Troll posts removed. If you have nothing to contribute except snide comments about other poster's opinion, don't post. Continue at your own peril. Warnings will be issued.

[DivinGuy]

More mob rule

And that's a worry. Societies always take law and order and social cohesion for granted until they're gone. Then the job of restoring them is massive and takes years.

As I posted on another thread, I believe people are too sanguine about what's happening here. Political deadlock, a military paralyzed for fear of precipitating a major internal split, angry mobs on the street, the prime minister nowhere to be seen or heard and powerless to boot,....it's a witches brew for complete anarchy and social breakdown.

Of course, people will say that Thailand has been through all this political turmoil before, but I'm not so sure. It's like watching the build up to a Thai bar fight. Words, more words, scuffle, more words, finger pointing, raised voices, pushing, more words, more words again,and just when you think it's all so much piss and wind and is going to peter out- all hell breaks loose and people are literally trying to kill each other. I hope I'm wrong but I have a sense that the stuff before - yellow shirts, coups, red shirts, etc, were like the the raised words and scuffles - just hors d'oeuvres to build up momentum for the real thing.

The army is the real worry here. In the past it's always been able to put a clamp on things. I'm not so sure it can anymore without falling to pieces.

Your second sentence is spot on. " Societies always take law and order and social cohesion for granted until they're gone."

This is my worry, too, as it was in 2010. I couldn't care less about scoring points in an argument on a web forum. What am I going to do, what is my Thai family (which includes red supporters, yellow supporters and one unsuccessful BhumJaiThai politician) going to do if the sh*t really hits the fan? My only comfort is that they live way to the west in Ratchaburi. Pretty much gateway to Burma, and a really peaceful community.

[Rich teacher]

Time for a business Government I would say. Both parties with justifiable seats in parliament. If I was Yingluck I'd choose for that and offer it right now. First put Thailand back on the map.

In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituencies. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). . So a Business cabinet with these numbers should be acceptable: 225 to 196 seats. This would be fair and exactly reflect the votes. It could stop this BS and get everyone working on ONE Thailand again.

The Dems altered the constitution in their favour ahead of the 2011 election.

"Abhisit government's had passed several major amendments on electoral laws on 11 February 2011, transforming the constituency vote from multiple-seats-per-constituency to single-seat-per-constituency, reducing the number of constituency MPs, and increasing the proportional party list MPs. In the previous general elections in 2007, the Democrat Party had lost the constituency vote but won the proportional party list vote." People's Daily. 11 February 2011. Retrieved 4 July 2011

Edited December 30, 2013 by Rich teacher

[spare5]

Time for a business Government I would say. Both parties with justifiable seats in parliament. If I was Yingluck I'd choose for that and offer it right now. First put Thailand back on the map.

In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituencies. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). . So a Business cabinet with these numbers should be acceptable: 225 to 196 seats. This would be fair and exactly reflect the votes. It could stop this BS and get everyone working on ONE Thailand again.

The Dems altered the constitution in their favour ahead of the 2011 election.

"Abhisit government's had passed several major amendments on electoral laws on 11 February 2011, transforming the constituency vote from multiple-seats-per-constituency to single-seat-per-constituency, reducing the number of constituency MPs, and increasing the proportional party list MPs. In the previous general elections in 2007, the Democrat Party had lost the constituency vote but won the proportional party list vote." People's Daily. 11 February 2011. Retrieved 4 July 2011

If Abhisit cheated before (may be. maybe not), That does not mean that Thaksin is also allowed to cheat in 2013.

[joepattaya1961]

Mmmm, so Suthep calls for every shirt except the red-shirts.

I suppose that the red-shirts are going to try to free their capital.......empty handed and without violence of course.

Let's get ready to rumble!!

My plane will touch down on Jan 8.........touch on wood I guess.

[beautifulthailand99]

It looks more and more like a mythomaniac attitude and Mr Suthep should remove the qualifier of democrat from the name of his party . Everything this guy is saying and doing is at the opposite of a democratic behaviour.

Here's the son of a rich Bangkok Thai - well educated and spoken with good English but not a clue about how to argue intelligently and articulately on the global media. And in it lies the problem for Thailand without a wholesale acknowledgement of corruption and the pernicious rotting influence on the body politic no change will happen. Corruption is widespread,institutionalised and robs Thailand so they say of 40 - 50 % of monies that could go into reforms and infrastructure. I have seen it at first hand through family connections at a provincial level - idiots you wouldn't employ to deliver pizzas are running provinces piled high with lucrative permits and licences and for what - the signature of a well connected guy who bought/fought his way to the table. The 'REDS' anger is deep. very deep and is the unfocused rage of being terated like sh*t for decades and paid peanuts for hard work whilst some local big wig cruises past in his Benz to wais all round. Accept , accept , accept seems to be the Thai mantra - but in the world of Youtube,Facebook , social media and the like it is far harder to put the genie back in the bottle.

What would really scare the powers that be would be mass demonstrations similar to Brazil or the Arab Spring that come from heartfelt feelings on the street and aren't tied to one corrupt faction or another. If that day ever comes a lot of those in power will be sh*t scared and blood really will flow in the streets.

[englishoak]

He is clearly not well educated, just good English skills. Has no clue about democracy, the vote, and totally contradicted himself .... having a piece of paper and fluency in another language dosnt automatically make you educated.

It does mean you can look like a fool in more than one country tho, or in the case of this station the whole world

[retsdon]

It looks more and more like a mythomaniac attitude and Mr Suthep should remove the qualifier of democrat from the name of his party . Everything this guy is saying and doing is at the opposite of a democratic behaviour.

Here's the son of a rich Bangkok Thai - well educated and spoken with good English but not a clue about how to argue intelligently and articulately on the global media. And in it lies the problem for Thailand without a wholesale acknowledgement of corruption and the pernicious rotting influence on the body politic no change will happen. Corruption is widespread,institutionalised and robs Thailand so they say of 40 - 50 % of monies that could go into reforms and infrastructure. I have seen it at first hand through family connections at a provincial level - idiots you wouldn't employ to deliver pizzas are running provinces piled high with lucrative permits and licences and for what - the signature of a well connected guy who bought/fought his way to the table. The 'REDS' anger is deep. very deep and is the unfocused rage of being terated like sh*t for decades and paid peanuts for hard work whilst some local big wig cruises past in his Benz to wais all round. Accept , accept , accept seems to be the Thai mantra - but in the world of Youtube,Facebook , social media and the like it is far harder to put the genie back in the bottle.

What would really scare the powers that be would be mass demonstrations similar to Brazil or the Arab Spring that come from heartfelt feelings on the street and aren't tied to one corrupt faction or another. If that day ever comes a lot of those in power will be sh*t scared and blood really will flow in the streets.

The absolute root of the problem is the education system here. The so called educated Thais are nothing of the sort. And as for the schools, who is to blame for the pitiable structure and level of education in the North and North East which the so called educated Thais are complaining about? Thailand, on paper, spends huge amounts of money on education. Yet the country consistently scores bottom of any empirically tested tables of geography, math, language, etc, in South East Asia. It's an unfortunate fact that the people with the wealth in Thailand have, for decades, deliberately starved ordinary Thai people of a half-decent education while at the same time allocating huge budgets for education which they put in their own pockets.

The present political mess is the result. Thailand as a whole needs to decide if it wants a modern age democracy or if it wants to live in some kind of feudal twilight zone. If it's the former, then the whole education system needs to be revamped.

[nickynomates]

The vast majority yes agree with your thought. Some hangers on will go which ever color is paying the highest price.

But yes I do get the feeling this time it's from passion a word not translated into Thai vocabulary.

The Rice con

The Big brother trying to be pardon

National dept on borrowing at record highs

Yingluck on every billboard to the airport.

I get the feeling the average Thai have had enough but no clue what else is a better option.

Don't be fooled, Suthep's supporters don't need

to be paid, they are fighting for their country!

[Kru Baa]

Go on, I dares ye. Shut down the airports and the ports and the industrial estates. No? Suthep, you're just chicken.

Don't talk crap.. They've done it before and they could do it again. Pray it doesn't happen.

I hope it does happen, I think it will be hilarious. Yingluck and Suthep are both idiots. What chance does this country have. It's embarrassing really.

[Kru Baa]

Perfectly said. You are a 100% right on.

It looks more and more like a mythomaniac attitude and Mr Suthep should remove the qualifier of democrat from the name of his party . Everything this guy is saying and doing is at the opposite of a democratic behaviour.

Here's the son of a rich Bangkok Thai - well educated and spoken with good English but not a clue about how to argue intelligently and articulately on the global media. And in it lies the problem for Thailand without a wholesale acknowledgement of corruption and the pernicious rotting influence on the body politic no change will happen. Corruption is widespread,institutionalised and robs Thailand so they say of 40 - 50 % of monies that could go into reforms and infrastructure. I have seen it at first hand through family connections at a provincial level - idiots you wouldn't employ to deliver pizzas are running provinces piled high with lucrative permits and licences and for what - the signature of a well connected guy who bought/fought his way to the table. The 'REDS' anger is deep. very deep and is the unfocused rage of being terated like sh*t for decades and paid peanuts for hard work whilst some local big wig cruises past in his Benz to wais all round. Accept , accept , accept seems to be the Thai mantra - but in the world of Youtube,Facebook , social media and the like it is far harder to put the genie back in the bottle.

What would really scare the powers that be would be mass demonstrations similar to Brazil or the Arab Spring that come from heartfelt feelings on the street and aren't tied to one corrupt faction or another. If that day ever comes a lot of those in power will be sh*t scared and blood really will flow in the streets.

The absolute root of the problem is the education system here. The so called educated Thais are nothing of the sort. And as for the schools, who is to blame for the pitiable structure and level of education in the North and North East which the so called educated Thais are complaining about? Thailand, on paper, spends huge amounts of money on education. Yet the country consistently scores bottom of any empirically tested tables of geography, math, language, etc, in South East Asia. It's an unfortunate fact that the people with the wealth in Thailand have, for decades, deliberately starved ordinary Thai people of a half-decent education while at the same time allocating huge budgets for education which they put in their own pockets.

The present political mess is the result. Thailand as a whole needs to decide if it wants a modern age democracy or if it wants to live in some kind of feudal twilight zone. If it's the former, then the whole education system needs to be revamped.

[dhrobertson]

I really do think that things are different this time.

A significant proportion of people have woken up to the fact that the system just does not work.

It doesn't really matter which group gets in, the result is roughly the same.

Specifically, democracy without good governance does not work.

Frankly, most, if not all politicians here are in it to line their own pockets and not out of any sense of civil service.

I don't think that any written constitution or new law will resolve this.

Long term of course, education is key. The schools and universities here are generally poor and in dire need of re-organisation. Plenty of cash is spent but the results are dreadful.

In the short term, the media really needs to get its act together.

Where is the investigative journalism? (Panorama not Fox News, The Guardian not The Mirror)

Well, for that the libel laws need to change (the best law that money can buy?)

And censorship and banned topics need to be scrapped.

But ultmately, its education and that will take time.

In the meantime, I don't see what an unelected council is going to achieve

A dgree of devolution might be an idea? Certainly decentralisation of government would be a good move.

So let's have some good ideas.....