Smoke, Smog, Dust 2014 Chiang Mai

[Mapguy]

About levels of PM<2.5 and PM<10 pollution, this is to save you some time.

Any number of sources (and I am too lazy to quote them here as they have been posted before) indicate that the amount of PM<2.5 pollution as part of PM<10 pollution is 40 - 60%. There is some local research (previously posted) that indicates that the percentage of the nasty PM<2.5 pollution is at least toward the higher end of the range, if not somewhat higher, but that is, as I have been able to find, the only local research finding.

There is no conspiracy about standards, which reflect risk analysis and the capacity of governments to implement pollution reduction programs. If you look at standards, you won't find this background information reflected, just, unless you dig for it, numbers. Standards take years to establish. Monitoring accurately is difficult as well as very expensive let alone taking time to implement. But the fundamental proportion is known --- as well as increasing concern about the public health dangers of the smaller particles.

[chiang mai]

March 30, 2014 Firemap snapshot. Shows a pretty significant reduction in fires directly around CM.

March 30 2014 Overlay.jpg

(Note: the satellite sightings are never complete because of the nature of satellite monitoring, but the eyes in the sky certainly pick up trends (not including the leaf trash your neighbors might still be burning).

I don't know how this aids the discussion, I think it actually confuses it for many. Satellite imagery is never complete, does that mean it's not perfect and if so, what in this world is! And if satellite imagery is not complete, what other alternatives are there in getting a repeatable snap shot of the volume of fires, what's the next best method, hmm, there really isn't one that comes even close!

So whilst we can all accept that satellite imagery is not 100% accurate (it is however consistent however), it does at least beat the more common type of pollution sensing of being near a fire and detecting that the pollution is very bad today and guessing that the burning is a as bad as it's ever been in the past ten years!.

An extension of that thinking is to question how reliable the pollution measuring stations are, the technology is not the latest and PM10 levels have to be guessed at with a margin for error of 20%!!

I reckon that we've got the tools that we've got and they're broadly the same ones that have been in use for the past ten years, year on year relative numbers are therefore going to be reliable, whether or not all the numbers are precise is probably not helpful to question since some will loose interest when they find out that they're not.,

Edited March 30, 2014 by chiang mai

[John Clarke]

Yesterday in Pai was just so bad still. But we are lucky enough now to be in Rawai, clean air very nice!

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[connda]

http://www.chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=3565

for those who didn't notice Vagabond's cryptic thread

That is unreal! Not a single arrest for burning has been made, but hey everyone, take off those masks as it looks bad. Prediction for 2015: Another long TV thread, more banners, maybe some water sprayed into the air, a lot more sick people, no action or enforcement, and the same chunky crappy air.

Agreed.

Face masks create a bad image? Amazing Thailand (haven't pulled that out of the drawer for awhile). I tell my own friends not to come here at this time of year as it is a waste of money. Good example...today I can't see any mountains. I don't think tourists are attracted to the beauty of our local area to be met with a smog bank. So Gov, how about arresting some of the blatant arsonists deliberately setting fires in the forests. By the way, we lost another 5% of our orchard trees to fire again this year. This is twice in the last 4 years. We lost about 1/3 to a fire coming out of the national forest bordering my wife's property in 2010. Arsonists are prosecuted in the West, but TIT. What a shame for Thailand. And Gov Wichian, what a sham. You should be ashamed. That position is irresponsible (but so typical of the type of people whom gravitate toward positions of power).

Edited March 31, 2014 by connda

[connda]

Does anyone know if there are air conditioners sold locally that filter out PM<2.5 particulate?

[chiang mai]

Don't know, but you can always cover the mesh filters with 3M's filterette, cheap and effective at 160 baht.

And I did finally see a decent air purifer for sale in Central, high capacity, takes out sub PM2.5, THB 35K and filters are 2 x 4,500 a shot.

[connda]

Don't know, but you can always cover the mesh filters with 3M's filterette, cheap and effective at 160 baht.

And I did finally see a decent air purifer for sale in Central, high capacity, takes out sub PM2.5, THB 35K and filters are 2 x 4,500 a shot.

I like that 160 baht solution better lol

[John Clarke]

My wife and I arrived in Rawai about 2.am today. Already the eyes do no sting and the cough is much less. I really did not think the smoke effects were so severe.

Perhaps next year we say goodbye to Pai, hello Rawai. Health is more important than working resort in Pai not many come now any way for they not like the smoke.

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[chiang mai]

My wife and I arrived in Rawai about 2.am today. Already the eyes do no sting and the cough is much less. I really did not think the smoke effects were so severe.

Perhaps next year we say goodbye to Pai, hello Rawai. Health is more important than working resort in Pai not many come now any way for they not like the smoke.

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Each to their own, we did the same thing for four years but eventually moved back, they're two very different places. Good luck what ever you decide.

[T_Dog]

Not sure how much I trust the fire maps. Watched two fires in the mountains this afternoon and neither one of them has appeared on the fire map. Meanwhile, it looks like one fire that has been on the maps for two days is actually an asphalt plant. No fire around it so I expect the satellite just sees a hot thermal image.

[chiang mai]

Are you with the group that thinks the moon landing was filmed in Hollywood?

[cloudhopper]

My wife and I arrived in Rawai about 2.am today. Already the eyes do no sting and the cough is much less. I really did not think the smoke effects were so severe.

Perhaps next year we say goodbye to Pai, hello Rawai. Health is more important than working resort in Pai not many come now any way for they not like the smoke.

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Raining this morning in Ao Yon. Been 2 months without hardly even a cloud. Hope it moves North soon.

[cloudhopper]

Not sure how much I trust the fire maps. Watched two fires in the mountains this afternoon and neither one of them has appeared on the fire map. Meanwhile, it looks like one fire that has been on the maps for two days is actually an asphalt plant. No fire around it so I expect the satellite just sees a hot thermal image.

That's interesting; big fires?

[John Clarke]

Raining in Rawai..... nice

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[T_Dog]

Not sure how much I trust the fire maps. Watched two fires in the mountains this afternoon and neither one of them has appeared on the fire map. Meanwhile, it looks like one fire that has been on the maps for two days is actually an asphalt plant. No fire around it so I expect the satellite just sees a hot thermal image.

That's interesting; big fires?

Fairly average. The ones yesterday were after the winds cleared the air and along a trail about 4-6 km away and you could see the smoke progress up the ridges for several hours. The day before we saw a fire from close up, flames about ten feet high that traveled about 500 meters up the mountain. None of those three fires have appeared on the fire maps. The asphalt plant has been there for three days now however.

[Cheesekraft]

anyone know where to buy a filtrete filter? I have checked the 3m shop, they had no idea what I was asking for; baan and beyond, no filters, check power buy. Power buy, no (none of them seemed to know what the filter was, showed them google images, or even recognize the brand 3M or filtrete), then on the way back from the airport I saw a honda/electronics dealership, no dice, they said to check in the back at a suppliers office, and they had no 3M products. I hear people are obtaining these; but where?

[chiang mai]

anyone know where to buy a filtrete filter? I have checked the 3m shop, they had no idea what I was asking for; baan and beyond, no filters, check power buy. Power buy, no (none of them seemed to know what the filter was, showed them google images, or even recognize the brand 3M or filtrete), then on the way back from the airport I saw a honda/electronics dealership, no dice, they said to check in the back at a suppliers office, and they had no 3M products. I hear people are obtaining these; but where?

HomePro

[jonwilly]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/468085/Return-of-the-KILLER-SMOG-Worst-pollution-in-60-YEARS-to-strike-Britain-TOMORROW

So it's not just Chiang Mai.

john

[chiang mai]

It's a dust storm, sand from the Sahara, not quite the same thing.

But I do wish the Express would put perforation lines on their pages instead of trying to disguise it as something that it's not.

[TheScribe]

Interesting opinion article in Bangkok Post this morning: "Easing the haze problem in the North". Ms Sanitsuda believes corn and sugar cane production are the main culprits.

[jellydog]

When does this foul mess usually begin to give way ? I need to get up to CM soon but I don't want to go until things have cleared up. Should the beginning of May be OK ? Thanks.

[chiang mai]

When does this foul mess usually begin to give way ? I need to get up to CM soon but I don't want to go until things have cleared up. Should the beginning of May be OK ? Thanks.

The rains usually come just after Songkran, it'll all be done when that happens.

[Tywais]

Removed a post containing a link to Bangkok Post due to this forum rule:

26) Bangkok Post do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post publications will be deleted from the forum. Please note that this is a decision by the Bangkok Post, not by Thaivisa.com and any complaints or other issues concerning this rule should be directed to them.

[marieb]

Removed a post containing a link to Bangkok Post due to this forum rule:

26) Bangkok Post do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post publications will be deleted from the forum. Please note that this is a decision by the Bangkok Post, not by Thaivisa.com and any complaints or other issues concerning this rule should be directed to them.

Got it, thank you. and thanks to TheScribe for the info.

[jonwilly]

"It's a dust storm, sand from the Sahara, not quite the same thing."

But you seem to have missed the reference to the great Smog of London in the early-mid 50s when folk were dropping by the thousand.

The 'Pea Soupers' of those days make our present day problems Nothing as you would know if you are old enough.

I suffer when we have our CM smog, just back in town and coughing of a morning and sore eyes when out and about.

john

[chiang mai]

"It's a dust storm, sand from the Sahara, not quite the same thing."

But you seem to have missed the reference to the great Smog of London in the early-mid 50s when folk were dropping by the thousand.

The 'Pea Soupers' of those days make our present day problems Nothing as you would know if you are old enough.

I suffer when we have our CM smog, just back in town and coughing of a morning and sore eyes when out and about.

john

No I didn't miss it and yes I am old enough to remember - but that's my problem with The Express and that article, they can't manage to just report a one off event of sands from the Sahara, instead they have to envoke history and report 50 year old history and make that the headline instead!

[mrmillersr]

About levels of PM<2.5 and PM<10 pollution, this is to save you some time.

Any number of sources (and I am too lazy to quote them here as they have been posted before) indicate that the amount of PM<2.5 pollution as part of PM<10 pollution is 40 - 60%. There is some local research (previously posted) that indicates that the percentage of the nasty PM<2.5 pollution is at least toward the higher end of the range, if not somewhat higher, but that is, as I have been able to find, the only local research finding.

There is no conspiracy about standards, which reflect risk analysis and the capacity of governments to implement pollution reduction programs. If you look at standards, you won't find this background information reflected, just, unless you dig for it, numbers. Standards take years to establish. Monitoring accurately is difficult as well as very expensive let alone taking time to implement. But the fundamental proportion is known --- as well as increasing concern about the public health dangers of the smaller particles.

A study that was done in March 2007 found the ratio of PM 2.5 to PM 10 to be 71% at Yupparaj Wittayalai and 76% at Chiang Mai Government Center. This would put PM 10 levels of just 50 over the PM 2.5 levels of 25 set by both Australia and the European Union.

[jonwilly]

Telegraph, Guardian, The Independent and Daily Mail all carry the story but luckily the Express informs folk too young to know just how bad real smog is, http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/education/teens/case-studies/great-smog, Thousands died in the Great Smog of London. That was coal burning unlike the 'Forest/field' fires that we have.

I can't see Thailand having a Clean Air act that saved UK in the 60's.

john

[Jason Green]

I live in Chiang Mai and just did the Mai Sai border run. The smoke has been bad here in CM, but driving up to Mai Sai and back really shows you how BAD it really is. Visibility was HORRIBLE everywhere I looked.

Next year, I will leave for March / April. I know this shit can't be good to breath! And those little paper surgeons's masks that I see people wearing are a joke in regards to protecting yourself.

I seem to be reading that mid-April is when this will all clear out??? Can anyone confirm that? WHEN WILL IT END!?!??

I got a friend coming from the states to visit for April 12-20, and we were planning on exploring via motorbike and doing some photography. But not a single shot would be taken in all this horrible smoke! Visibility is horrible.

[SundayAfternoon]

I'm confused by the readings...

http://www.aqmthai.com/

currently shows a reading of 128 @ Yupparaj Wittayalai

whereas,

http://aqicn.org/?city=Thailand/%E0%B9%82%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%87%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%A2&size=xlarge&wamap

is showing 87... Also for Yapparaj Wittayalai.

What's the reason for the discrepancy between the two websites? And which one is correct?