Starting a new care home / retirment home in Hua Hin

[doctorburt]

Hello everyone

i have been reading thaivisa for nearly 5 yrs as a subscriber and now would like to ask questions and join in the conversation on many topics

just a little info regarding myself . i have lived in thailand for the last 10 yrs and lead a normal life. not a bar hopper,

i am constantly in touch with my mother, who will be 85 in april and would love to bring her over here to stay with me, but as she gets older and maybe needs some form of care, this may become a problem as i have been doing a lot of research regarding care homes and they seem to be very limited if any. at this stage I am seriously considering building such a facility, my question is would there be a market for a proper professional care home, as I would be investing a large percentage of my life savings into it, any feedback would be much appreciated.

[sanook2me]

I often thought the same but I think its too soon for Thai families to push little olde granny into a nursing home.

You are probably 1 or 2 generations to early to make a success of it.

Would it not be easier for you to have a live in nurse and then make a new business of supplying house visiting carers/nurses..

I think retirement blocks for over 50s would probably be a better investment (i have no idea, it just came to me)

I think Thais still do the whole family thing of looking after the oldies till they die.

[MJP]

I think this is a great idea. I actually had this idea back in October but I simply don't have the funds to do it.

Makes a fortune in the UK and seeing as though this country is the hub of geriatric farangs (I believe this is confirmed by official statistics) you, good Sir, are onto a winner!

[Farma]

Just a thought as you mention providing professional care which I assume will include some sort of medical care.

It may be worth making enquiries with your local MoPH regarding registration requirements.

[chiangmaibruce]

Interesting concept. There are a few such developments out there (in Thailand), though mostly quite recent ones.

There have been a couple of previous thaivisa threads on this issue - would be worth searching for them as they list some of the existing developments.

Also perhaps have a look at my article here http://issuu.com/austcham/docs/advance_october_2011 (page 6)

I know of an architect with some experience in this field and have sent you a pm with contact details.

Edited December 29, 2013 by chiangmaibruce

[In Search of Space]

A great idea, I am still a whipper-snapper but have thought how i might cope as an old-snapper in Thailand

[roamer]

I think if the nurses were to be kitted out as in the old "Carry on" films you would be on to a winner. Send Pm's to members such as transam and geriatric kid, to name just a few, and you could be fully booked before you lay the first brick!

Seriously though,could work, heaps of red tape though I would imagine.

[In Search of Space]

Can I be head of personnel ?

[arthurwait]

I hear this idea time after time from farangs no one ever does it.

Land issue would be first thing. Getting enough staff would be another.

Next as said Thais look after their own and a Cambodian worker would be cheaper.

Most old Thais with money to pay for this stay in their business until they die as it's their life and what they have done everyday for as long as they can remember, you aren't going to change them.

Foreigners here usually go home when the time comes, lets be honest look at the pavements and roads here , when you get to that age how do you get about , especially without kids here ? Why stay here to be stuck in a nursing home with expensive medical bills waiting for the expense of your body being flown home ?

[Gulfsailor]

It could work, but aimed at (western) foreigners. The cost of nursing and retirement homes in the west is very high. I think I read recently that Swedish government was offering the choice of going into standard nursing home at home or all expenses paid luxury one in Thailand. Plenty of socialistic western countries that would like the idea to save cost.

I was thinking of setting up something similar, but in cooperation with a local international hospital. Maybe a luxury retirement village on grounds next to hospital. That way you have all required medical services very nearby. Win-win for everyone.

[kikoman]

There may be a possibility, if your business catered to the aging expat population!

If you hope to convince Thai's to follow the western custom of placing their elderly in a old folks home, Thailand families care for their own elderly population and if they do not have a family to care for them, they can simply go live out their live's at the local temple/Wat, that option would not be a wise investment in my opinion!

Cheers

[Neeranam]

There's one in Chiang Ma - looks like for foreigners

http://www.careresortchiangmai.com/

One for Thais - http://www.eldercarethailand.com/eldercare/nursinghome/แฮปปี้ไลฟ์-โฮมแคร์-happy-life-home-care#.UsBSJNIW2So

EVen one in Sin City - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOeHi4Xidyg#t=70

Edited December 29, 2013 by Neeranam

[Bazw57]

The Thai people would never use that type of facility as its just not their culture to do that type of thing with elderly people, the children must care for the parents and this is a very strong belief in Thailand.

But I think it could be popular with Farang who live in Thailand and have elderly parents.

But you would need to ensure that world class medical care is available and affordable as some people get free medical care in their own country so they will be reluctant to leave that.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[chiangmaibruce]

<snip> Plenty of socialistic western countries that would like the idea to save cost.<snip>

You would think so, but instead some at least seem to be taking a very narrow short-term view and actually penalising their citizens who opt to spend time overseas ... at least those who draw a pension anyway.

Read for example the thaivisa thread on australian aged pensions. Ditto for the UK. The Government's forget the logic and focus instead on the newspaper articles about pensioners living in foreign paradise at taxpayers expense angle. This paper talks about that trend from the Aussie perspective.

PS: I also just saw this related article http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/world-braces-for-retirement-crisis/story-e6frfm9r-1226791660815

Edited December 30, 2013 by chiangmaibruce

[craigt3365]

There are actually quite a few of these around, oriented towards Thais. My neighbors run one. He's a doc, she's a nurse. But unless you are Thai and really into the local community, you'd never know about it.

I take care of my 89 year old mother in my house. She has alzheimers. We have a full time care giver (8-5, 6 days a week) that we couldn't afford if we lived back in the US.

I've thought about this also. One problem would be payments. What if the money stopped coming in (relatives gave up, money ran out, etc). What would you do? But if supported by somebody with a guaranteed pension or a government program, you'd probably be in good shape. I know back in the US they have programs where nursing homes can take everything you have, but will guarantee taking care of you for the rest of your life. Not sure you'd get away with that here.

Very interesting idea.

[doctorburt]

Thankyou for the replys guys, but to clarify a few points as I have not been very clear, it would most likely be just for expats as I am certain that Thais would have no interest at all, also I appreciate that several other people may have mentioned opening such a facility before and I must admit I have been considering this venture for quite some time now, also I am in a fortunate position that I have the funds to do this, however the realisation for me is that my dear mother is getting older by the day so the time is fast approaching that I need to make a choice of either making this happen or go home to the UK to care for her as I am at sometime sure to need professionally trained help, I do love living here and hope to remain doing so therefor by opening such a place would perfectly suit all concerned, also on top of knowing that my dear mother is receiving the best care possible we would have the pleasure of running a very rewarding and hopefully successful business, so any information or advice will be gratefully appreciated as I have never been more serious or nervous about anything in my life, Thanks again.

[bluebluewater]

You should never invest the bulk of whatever fortune you have in Thailand. However . . .

Hua Hin would be a good place to consider starting such an operation as there is an aging expat community that will need that type of care. In addition, with the upcoming ASEAN markets opening up there will be may Filipino nurses available. Staff might not the problem that it once would have been.

You still would have all the other problems of land, construction, pay offs, etc. I would not want to tackle those!

[thaibook]

There are actually quite a few of these around, oriented towards Thais. My neighbors run one. He's a doc, she's a nurse. But unless you are Thai and really into the local community, you'd never know about it.

I take care of my 89 year old mother in my house. She has alzheimers. We have a full time care giver (8-5, 6 days a week) that we couldn't afford if we lived back in the US.

I've thought about this also. One problem would be payments. What if the money stopped coming in (relatives gave up, money ran out, etc). What would you do? But if supported by somebody with a guaranteed pension or a government program, you'd probably be in good shape. I know back in the US they have programs where nursing homes can take everything you have, but will guarantee taking care of you for the rest of your life. Not sure you'd get away with that here.

Very interesting idea.

yes, there are several aimed at Thais but they tend to be at middle-low income Thais either with no family or a family who cannot look after them. As said above richer Thais might start considering such facilities in a generation or so.

There are other homes aimed at foreigners; there are several Japanese retirement villages with resident doctor/nurses etc where the residents do not need to be present full time ie they can spend part of the year in Japan and part in LOS.

I have also thought about it and when I come across in a few months aim to research it further. As a number of others seem to have similar ideas, I would be happy to hear from anybody who might consider some form of collaboration.

[Hunter88]

There is one in Chiang Mai that I hear is very nice. Can't tell you more. Sorry.

[hhfarang]

I've lived here ten years as well and this question has come up many times among the expat population. I know there is and will be a need here but I don't know if it would be enough in the beginning to survive. Over time as Hua Hin is becoming more and more of a retirement destination I think it will be needed and would be successful but you may have to be prepared to start small with an easily expandable plan and go through a few lean years before it was truly viable.

As far as staff goes, I don't think that would be a problem as Thai women are generally very good caregivers and labor is cheap here.

[cooked]

There are a few retirement homes for Farangs that I know of. One in particular for Swiss people in Buriram province seems to be running well, he asks for about ฿40 000.- a month I think, the Swiss guy has a Thai wife.

There is also

http://www.senline.net/index.php?page=511

and

in German.

People that suffer from Dementia and Alzheimer's would be a good bet, they would be better looked after here than in Europe and cheaper.

Sorry, another German link (use Google translate) to the home for dementia patients: http://www.alzheimerthailand.com/AlzheimerThailand/Index.htm

Edited December 30, 2013 by cooked

[mrtoad]

When you start working with Dementia clients, you go to a whole new level of care. To do it well, you need very big staffing ratios and well trained staff. Irrespective, a good working knowledge of this field is a necessity, it is far, far harder than what it looks.

[fire2rescue99]

Thankyou for the replys guys, but to clarify a few points as I have not been very clear, it would most likely be just for expats as I am certain that Thais would have no interest at all, also I appreciate that several other people may have mentioned opening such a facility before and I must admit I have been considering this venture for quite some time now, also I am in a fortunate position that I have the funds to do this, however the realisation for me is that my dear mother is getting older by the day so the time is fast approaching that I need to make a choice of either making this happen or go home to the UK to care for her as I am at sometime sure to need professionally trained help, I do love living here and hope to remain doing so therefor by opening such a place would perfectly suit all concerned, also on top of knowing that my dear mother is receiving the best care possible we would have the pleasure of running a very rewarding and hopefully successful business, so any information or advice will be gratefully appreciated as I have never been more serious or nervous about anything in my life, Thanks again.

I think there is great potential in your idea. Plenty of ex-pats getting on in age. They cannot live on their own forever. I am surprised that a big hospital has not embarked on an enterprise like you suggest. Good luck and good on you for taking care of your Mom.

[Suradit69]

Can I be head of personnel ?

You do realize this could result in a high concentration of Thai Visa moaners in a confined space. If the staff would have to listen to all the whining everyday, you'd have to pay a lot and allow sedative-laced porridge or patient blow-darting and even then you'd probably have a high personnel turnover.

Probably best to name the place Bedlam and leave no doubt.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Suradit69

[sirocco]

Thankyou for the replys guys, but to clarify a few points as I have not been very clear, it would most likely be just for expats as I am certain that Thais would have no interest at all, also I appreciate that several other people may have mentioned opening such a facility before and I must admit I have been considering this venture for quite some time now, also I am in a fortunate position that I have the funds to do this, however the realisation for me is that my dear mother is getting older by the day so the time is fast approaching that I need to make a choice of either making this happen or go home to the UK to care for her as I am at sometime sure to need professionally trained help, I do love living here and hope to remain doing so therefor by opening such a place would perfectly suit all concerned, also on top of knowing that my dear mother is receiving the best care possible we would have the pleasure of running a very rewarding and hopefully successful business, so any information or advice will be gratefully appreciated as I have never been more serious or nervous about anything in my life, Thanks again.

Hello,

I find your idea very well, but why a home for older people with mental illness.

You will find over the 3rd and 4 th age in good health and independent, but who do not want live alone or to dependent on their children.

Personally, the solution would be open to all nationalities house with doctor on demand, close to the beach and the shops and not in a place where you should take a tuk tuk, taxi or van to move about.

The total independence, but with discreet surveillance.

[route8]

I too have lived in HuaHin for more than 10 years and regard this as an excellent business opportunity with lots and lots of ongoing potential,(being a service industry). I can be contacted on <phone number removed>. Regards Peter.

[Sudgirl]

Hi I read with interest your posting regarding caring and support for the older person,I did consider this myself a long time ago but feel Thailand is not ready for this.

Have you considered what expense and personal input you would need to open such a facility here.?

I was a nurse and then changed jobs to become a care manager, mostly assessing people leaving hospital to adjust to living in care and rest homes. Many people are very happy with their moves if they are living in the caring homes the owners say they will provide, but many many are shocked by some of these so called care homes where the owners are only in it for money, I would ask you to have a think about staff you would employ, as Thai people will not have the expertise required to for instance look after older farangs

I feel so strongly about this and would hope your motives are sincere and not just to make money.

[mrtoad]

I've actually followed this with interest. I was involved in a project in 2008/2009, to set up something similar. Due to the political instability the main investor pulled out, so it never went anywhere further. What I do know, is that there is a lot more to setting up a care facility than people envisage, factor in the fixed overheads, administration, documentation, licensing, insurance etc, and it certainly is not a case of just opening up a nice place. The other part will be, identifying the market and then finding suitable staff to work the. If you are looking for foreign market, then the nurses will need to speak English. Price of hiring then goes up. Bring in foreign staff, then you have to employ more foreign staff. I'm not putting a damper on it, as I think that with a carefully thought out plan, and the right managerial staff to set it up it could be viable, but there'll also need to be deep pockets from the investors. Good luck.

Edited December 30, 2013 by mrtoad

[rgs2001uk]

First off, whats your target, farang or Thai?

There is one of these places up the road from me, mainly employing Burmese, costs 18k per person per month.

I have seen these failed projects, down Rayong way the last time I drove by was a sign for a Thai/Norwegian retirement village that never took off.

I also remember a scam involving Swedes ripping off their fellow countrymen.

I doubt if too many farang could afford the costs involved, what are we looking at 60k per person per month?

The majority of farang will either have family take care of them or move back to farangland and have the welfare state provide.

I believe it could be done, but would have to be researched and marketed properly.

Location will be one of the biggest factors due to land costs, then purpose built accomodation to include access ramps etc etc.

Next up would be obtaining a license to provide drugs and medical treatment.

Ancillary costs would be another factor, therapy, remedial treatment, qualified staff.

It would need someone with a thorough knowledge of managing/running such a place, then the bean counters would need to run the figures to see if its actually profitable.

I dont doubt there are farang living here who have the knowledge, are you able to offer a wage that would attract them?

[F4UCorsair]

I agree with sanook2me that a low risk option would be to hire a live in/home help nurse or whatever help is required.

As to the viability of such a venture in Thailand, I'll leave that to others, but from what I read, I think there are a lot of foreigners living in Thailand who draw aged pensions from their home countries, and that may not be a good market. Equally there are a lot of foreigners in Thailand on the bones of their bums, so not a good market there, but there's the Victoria Cross equivalent for entrepreneurial guts, and a pot of gold waiting, if you succeed.

Edited December 30, 2013 by F4UCorsair