Should Thailand tax junk food to help fight obesity?

[Morakot]

Overall I cannot see a significant increase for Thailand.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Morakot

[singa-traz]

The problem appears to be much more severe with Thai women, so very deceptive to only post the male stats. Nice try, though, A for effort.

overweight-and-obesity-sear.jpg

Data from: WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION

http://www.medindia.net/health_statistics/sear_countries/overweight-and-obesity.asp

Gawd, am getting fed up with gaol posts moving here........

"If you can't convince them ... confuse them."

[Jingthing]

Oy vey, this is like the global climate change debate. The conservative side trying to act like the problem doesn't even exist.

The

Problem

Exists

I don't think discussion about whether the problem exists and is growing is really worthy of any serious attention. It's just a diversion.

The FACT that Thailand is not yet at severe crisis levels like other similar countries is actually a great OPPORTUNITY for Thailand to prevent it.

Without aggression action on multiple fronts, the trend is clear.

http://www.thailand.com.co/a/News/Life/2013/0129/14790.html

While the problem in western countries has been building for decades, Thailand's childhood obesity problem is a more recent phenomenon. Statistics from Thailand's Ministry of Public Health reveal significant increases in the rate of obesity among children.

In the past five years, the percentage of obese pre-schoolers rose from 5.8 per cent to 7.9 per cent; in school-age children, the obesity rate went from 5.8 per cent up to 6.7 per cent over the same period. These statistics represent five-year obesity growth rates of 36 per cent (pre-school age) and 15 per cent (school age).

Among Thailand's young adults (those in the 20 to 29 age range), the obesity rate over the same five-year period increased 36 per cent among men, and for women the obesity rate grew 47 per cent.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[singa-traz]

Maybe we should do an experiment. Let's take a willing volunteer who believes that taxing sugar is a good thing.

Every time he eats sweetened food, or a sugary soft drink, he can send a shilling to the Inland Revenue.

Let's weigh him now, and in a year's time, and see how much impact it has had, and how much it has cost him, and how irritating is it to keep track?

And let's take another willing volunteer, and force him to ride 20 km on a bike every weekend, and see who is happier about their regime at the end of the year.

Are you up for that, JT?

SC

It's a silly idea but in my case, makes no difference, I religiously avoid sugar. It's hard to do in Thailand as it's in many things without asking. Also unlike taxation only an extremist totalitarian government could mandate exercise, and it should be more often than once a week anyway. Creating good environments for exercise such as making walking more respected in Thailand, play areas for children, etc. is part of an action government can help with to reduce the overall obesegenic environment in a country.

Ah, happy hour, two for the price of one.

Taking SC first.

20 clicks a week dont cut it, I usually do 20 miles (30/32 clicks) at least 5 times a week.

The alternative is obvious, cut out the crap I enjoy eating or become a "Pie Man"

Now onto JT.

Dont know where you live, where I live good enviornments for walking/cycling exist.

I see Thais excercising every morning and evening, they all seem to be respectable people.

The moo baan also has a play area for children.

is part of an action government can help with to reduce the overall obesegenic environment in a country.

The gov't can introduce as much legislation as it wants, if couch potatoes are too bloody lazy to get their fat ass off the couch, don a pair of running shoes and get out the front door, whose fault is that?

No much easier to blame someone else for their self inflicted obesity.

Double cheeseburger and double fries please, oh dont forget the diet coke, best make it a 32 ouncer.

Mostly agree with what you are saying about the "couch potatoes", but you have to take in consideration that maybe those people don't have the required necessary "life skills" to put this into practice successfuly:

• Being aware that they need to do something
• Accepting that they need to do something
• Knowing what to do
• Making a plan and setting goals
• Executing the plan
• Tracking the progress against the goals
• Reviewing the progress and adjusting the plan
• Knowing how to stay motivated
• Setting up an environment for success
• Understanding the points of resistance and knowing how to remove them
• etc ...

So what may be perceived as "Laziness", could be actually a skillset deficit that can easily crippeled any initiative they may start.

But ... try to suggest that obese/overweight people should take a break from Internet Surfing and walk a bit outside ... and the PC police is at your door!

[Morakot]

In the past five years, the percentage of obese pre-schoolers rose from 5.8 per cent to 7.9 per cent; in school-age children, the obesity rate went from 5.8 per cent up to 6.7 per cent over the same period. These statistics represent five-year obesity growth rates of 36 per cent (pre-school age) and 15 per cent (school age).

Among Thailand's young adults (those in the 20 to 29 age range), the obesity rate over the same five-year period increased 36 per cent among men, and for women the obesity rate grew 47 per cent.

Looks not very significant in contrast to the data from the West. An all this would justify a tax? The link in the OP talks about South America. Check out the rate there.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Morakot

[brit1984]

i read an interesting article recently about an old aussie couple who ran a marathon every day for a year (and did so on their strict vegan diet)... article here from telegraph.co.uk

i found their story to be really inspiring and i'm sure they have made a positive impact on many people's behaviour and diet, and improved their health and their lives... maybe jingthing could do something similar

[Jingthing]

i read an interesting article recently about an old aussie couple who ran a marathon every day for a year (and did so on their strict vegan diet)... article here from telegraph.co.uk

i found their story to be really inspiring and i'm sure they have made a positive impact on many people's behaviour and diet, and improved their health and their lives... maybe jingthing could do something similar

This thread isn't about my personal health status. Nice try, though. Another diversion.

As far as a public health policy for Thailand, so the idea is for all Thais to run a marathon every year? Are you having a laugh? Most Thais wouldn't be caught dead walking two blocks to the 7-11!

[oogster8]

lots of thIas are walking the streets. next up on the socialists agenda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jingthing]

lots of thIas are walking the streets. next up on the socialists agenda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tax sandals!

[rgs2001uk]

i read an interesting article recently about an old aussie couple who ran a marathon every day for a year (and did so on their strict vegan diet)... article here from telegraph.co.uk

i found their story to be really inspiring and i'm sure they have made a positive impact on many people's behaviour and diet, and improved their health and their lives... maybe jingthing could do something similar

This thread isn't about my personal health status. Nice try, though. Another diversion.

As far as a public health policy for Thailand, so the idea is for all Thais to run a marathon every year? Are you having a laugh? Most Thais wouldn't be caught dead walking two blocks to the 7-11!

Most Thais wouldn't be caught dead walking two blocks to the 7-11!

Thats the beauty of living in a forward progressive thinking country like Thailand, there is a 7 on every block.

Heck up my way there is a 7 , Family Mart and Am Pm right next door to each other.

Just across the road a Tesco Mini Mart and a Big C Extra.

The local motocy taxi drivers charge me 15 baht for going to 7 and paying the water bill (bargain).

Who would even consider walking in this heat and humidity?

Mad Dogs and Englishmen?

[Jingthing]

In the past five years, the percentage of obese pre-schoolers rose from 5.8 per cent to 7.9 per cent; in school-age children, the obesity rate went from 5.8 per cent up to 6.7 per cent over the same period. These statistics represent five-year obesity growth rates of 36 per cent (pre-school age) and 15 per cent (school age).

Among Thailand's young adults (those in the 20 to 29 age range), the obesity rate over the same five-year period increased 36 per cent among men, and for women the obesity rate grew 47 per cent.

Looks not very significant in contrast to the data from the West. An all this would justify a tax? The link in the OP talks about South America. Check out the rate there.

Tax, schax. It justifies government action to slow down the currently rapid rate of increase in obesity in Thais, particularly in youth. Whatever works. The idea is prevention because Thailand has enough BIG problems already.

Hey this could be a HUB thing. Thailand the HUB of suppressing the growth rate of obesity particularly in youth; saving millions of Thais from a lifetime health threatening and socially expensive scourge.

You've got good ideas to accomplish this other than cliched truisms about personal responsibility (for kids?!?), shoot, maybe some crazy government policy wonk might read this someday!

Edited January 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[MrGaoMungGawn]

Since SUGAR has correctly become a big focus on this thread, I'd like to share some quotes from an excellent HBO documentary about the obesity epidemic in the USA (which has even been described as a threat to national security), which of course is at similarly very severe levels to Mexico.

The documentary series is called -- The Weight of the Nation.

The trends in Thailand are headed in the SAME direction. (Which, BTW, has already previously been well documented on this thread with links, so no need to repeat again and again, yes?)

These quotes of course relate to the USA. I don't know whether they would be similar or not in Thailand. In any case, there is little doubt that Thais are consuming too much sugar, much of it in drinks including energy drinks, and that excessive sugar is linked to development of obesity. As people in Thailand know, it's actually quite a chore to AVOID sugar here, it is so pervasive and excessive in the overall food environment.

http://theweightofthenation.hbo.com/

Sugar-sweetened beverages are the largest source of sugar in the diets of children and adolescents.

About 46% of adults' added sugar intake comes from sugary drinks.

Weight of the Nation.

Worth evey minute watching, basically.

[David48]

i cant stand fat people but tax isnt the answer. these people should be shipped off to fat camps and forced to exercise until they lose the blubber

Mate, I don't particularly agree with Jingthing on his stance on the subject of his OP but ...

Your classy comment does nothing to move the debate forward.

It says more about you then the + size people you refer to.

[mogandave]

lots of thIas are walking the streets. next up on the socialists agenda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tax sandals!

Some evil corporation will just make something else they can walk in. Just tax feet and be done with it.

[mogandave]

i read an interesting article recently about an old aussie couple who ran a marathon every day for a year (and did so on their strict vegan diet)... article here from telegraph.co.uk

i found their story to be really inspiring and i'm sure they have made a positive impact on many people's behaviour and diet, and improved their health and their lives... maybe jingthing could do something similar

This thread isn't about my personal health status. Nice try, though. Another diversion.

As far as a public health policy for Thailand, so the idea is for all Thais to run a marathon every year? Are you having a laugh? Most Thais wouldn't be caught dead walking two blocks to the 7-11!

Most Thais wouldn't be caught dead walking two blocks to the 7-11!

Thats the beauty of living in a forward progressive thinking country like Thailand...

Enough progressive thinking and they'll get that down to a dispensary in every province that offers everything the government has approved as fair, safe, healthy and respectful of the environment. Coincidentally, approved products will only be produced by companies that support and contribute to the party and contribute to the greater good.

[Thai at Heart]

i read an interesting article recently about an old aussie couple who ran a marathon every day for a year (and did so on their strict vegan diet)... article here from telegraph.co.uk

i found their story to be really inspiring and i'm sure they have made a positive impact on many people's behaviour and diet, and improved their health and their lives... maybe jingthing could do something similar

This thread isn't about my personal health status. Nice try, though. Another diversion.

As far as a public health policy for Thailand, so the idea is for all Thais to run a marathon every year? Are you having a laugh? Most Thais wouldn't be caught dead walking two blocks to the 7-11!

Most Thais wouldn't be caught dead walking two blocks to the 7-11!

Thats the beauty of living in a forward progressive thinking country like Thailand...

Enough progressive thinking and they'll get that down to a dispensary in every province that offers everything the government has approved as fair, safe, healthy and respectful of the environment. Coincidentally, approved products will only be produced by companies that support and contribute to the party and contribute to the greater good.

But who's going to check if the packaging is true?

[mogandave]

i read an interesting article recently about an old aussie couple who ran a marathon every day for a year (and did so on their strict vegan diet)... article here from telegraph.co.uk

i found their story to be really inspiring and i'm sure they have made a positive impact on many people's behaviour and diet, and improved their health and their lives... maybe jingthing could do something similar

This thread isn't about my personal health status. Nice try, though. Another diversion.

Yes, enough diversions. Let's get back to the topic, which seems to be what we can do to stop the obesity problem in Thailand.

First, for the sake of the discussion, I think it safe to say we can all assume the problem is real, and that it is significant.

I think we can also agree that taxation will not work, as it has been clearly proven earlier in the thread, and everyone has agreed to, or at least no one has made an argument discrediting the previously stated facts that just as with cigarettes and alcohol, taxing rice, sugar, fast/junk food would have little or no effect on controlling consumption.

So let's stop all the petty attacks and diversions, roll our sleeves up and get to work on what we can do to come up with a solution.

Together we CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mogandave]

Most Thais wouldn't be caught dead walking two blocks to the 7-11!

Thats the beauty of living in a forward progressive thinking country like Thailand...

Enough progressive thinking and they'll get that down to a dispensary in every province that offers everything the government has approved as fair, safe, healthy and respectful of the environment. Coincidentally, approved products will only be produced by companies that support and contribute to the party and contribute to the greater good.

But who's going to check if the packaging is true?

Whoever donates the most silly!

[cashpower]

It may sound harsh but the only solution is a war on fatties and an international crackdown on these buttery blimps. they are ghastly to look at and their ravenous insatiable appetite causes me to lose mine. not to mention their odious and noxious body odour which remains long after they leave. they should be rounded up, defumigated with a few cans of deodorant and then chained to a running treadmill until their weight reaches an acceptable tonnage.

[Thai at Heart]

Most Thais wouldn't be caught dead walking two blocks to the 7-11!

Thats the beauty of living in a forward progressive thinking country like Thailand...

Enough progressive thinking and they'll get that down to a dispensary in every province that offers everything the government has approved as fair, safe, healthy and respectful of the environment. Coincidentally, approved products will only be produced by companies that support and contribute to the party and contribute to the greater good.

But who's going to check if the packaging is true?

Whoever donates the most silly!

Tate and Lyle, Coke, Kraft and Kelloggs? Edited January 14, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[StreetCowboy]

i cant stand fat people but tax isnt the answer. these people should be shipped off to fat camps and forced to exercise until they lose the blubber

Mate, I don't particularly agree with Jingthing on his stance on the subject of his OP but ...

Your classy comment does nothing to move the debate forward.

It says more about you then the + size people you refer to.

It's about as sensible as the OP. And the natural final solution to deal with those recidivists who insist on being fat despite JT's approach of carrot, stick, bureaucrat and whining.

I don't think the government should attempt to eliminate fat people, either through tax, punishment, or ethnic cleansing, nor unhappy people, even if that means we in turn can't take out and shoot interfering busybodies and whining liberals.

SC

[Showbags]

It may sound harsh but the only solution is a war on fatties and an international crackdown on these buttery blimps. they are ghastly to look at and their ravenous insatiable appetite causes me to lose mine. not to mention their odious and noxious body odour which remains long after they leave. they should be rounded up, defumigated with a few cans of deodorant and then chained to a running treadmill until their weight reaches an acceptable tonnage.

The only harsh bit was the spray.

Think of the environment, the ozone and refuse dumps with all of that extra spray cans and contents out there.

[Showbags]

I was actually wondering the other day if there is a danger of being squeezed off of the planet eventually by these people.

Like beach front land, there is only so much space available on the planet and if 'some' people continue to selfishly take up more than 2 or 3 times their fair share...welll.....civil war perhaps ??

[Morakot]

i read an interesting article recently about an old aussie couple who ran a marathon every day for a year (and did so on their strict vegan diet)... article here from telegraph.co.uk

i found their story to be really inspiring and i'm sure they have made a positive impact on many people's behaviour and diet, and improved their health and their lives... maybe jingthing could do something similar

This thread isn't about my personal health status. Nice try, though. Another diversion.

As far as a public health policy for Thailand, so the idea is for all Thais to run a marathon every year? Are you having a laugh?

I nominate this thread for the OP of the Year Award! Heck, I say: JT for president!

[transam]

It may sound harsh but the only solution is a war on fatties and an international crackdown on these buttery blimps. they are ghastly to look at and their ravenous insatiable appetite causes me to lose mine. not to mention their odious and noxious body odour which remains long after they leave. they should be rounded up, defumigated with a few cans of deodorant and then chained to a running treadmill until their weight reaches an acceptable tonnage.

Yet another ''inspiring'' post from yourself .

With respect, I suggest you don't hangout in these eateries...........

[soomak]

If you don't like something and believe it’s bad for people, why not grow a pair and take it off the market? Why just price it up such that it hurts the poor and benefits the rich?

When people state that they think you rice or sugar tax idea is silly and do not believe it will work, why do you attack them and call them greedy or infer they don’t care? Rather than attacking people, why not try to make a case that your idea is not silly, and that there is a reasonable chance it will work?

Also, why do you consider people that that don’t agree with you close-minded? If you don’t agree with me, does that make you close-minded?

Finally, as I stated previously, even the high taxes on booze and cigarettes has had little effect on reducing usage, yet you continue to argue that charging an extra penny for a bottle of pop is going to have a significant effect on reducing obesity. Do you have anything at all to help support that argument?

That's a lot of questions, I can try to answer two:

Q: If you don't like something and believe it’s bad for people, why not grow a pair and take it off the market?

A: taking something as common as sugar off the market is nearly impossible in a democratic country. Even cigarettes, which everyone agrees are a major health risk for people using them, are still legal to use, because it's just impossible to pass a law that bans them completely.

Taxing and placing limitation of usage are policies that are much easier to pass and implement than banning something completely.

In politics, as in life, you do what you can, not what's ideal.

Q: Finally, as I stated previously, even the high taxes on booze and cigarettes has had little effect on reducing usage, yet you continue to argue that charging an extra penny for a bottle of pop is going to have a significant effect on reducing obesity. Do you have anything at all to help support that argument?

A: I'll give you some statistics from my country (Israel):

In the past 30 years, smoking among jewish men age 21+ dropped from 45% to 24%,

and among jewish women 21+ it dropped from 30% to 16%.

The reasons are not completely clear, but taxes certainly had a part in it (sales tax on cigarettes has gone up sharply).

Other reasons may include education, awareness to health issues, a ban on advertising and a ban on smoking in public places.

Taxes do work, as long as they are high enough, but other measures are needed as well.

Personally I think other measures would be more effective in reducing sugars intake, in particular limiting the percentage of sugar in packaged food.

Example:

Up to 10 grams of sugar/HFCS in 100 grams of product.

Other options:

* Ban on selling soda pops in/near schools

* Ban on advertising products with high sugar content

Edited January 14, 2014 by soomak

[Jingthing]

...

I think we can also agree that taxation will not work, as it has been clearly proven earlier in the thread, and everyone has agreed to, or at least no one has made an argument discrediting the previously stated facts that just as with cigarettes and alcohol, taxing rice, sugar, fast/junk food would have little or no effect on controlling consumption.

...

Foul. We don't all agree. Nothing was proven. Not responding to posts doesn't create a "victory" for any cockamamie conclusion that you want to invent a fictional consensus about. Nice try. No cigar.

YOUR opinion? Fine and dandy. Assuming everyone else's opinion -- RIDICULOUS.

To amplify again, nobody is obligated to reply to ANY post for whatever reasons they like. One doesn't "concede" a point by not responding to all posts demanding a response -- that's not how forums work, this isn't Hard Talk.

OK, I admit it -- cockamamie -- probably wasn't the best word to use there, I just love to use that word though!

Edited January 14, 2014 by Jingthing

[singa-traz]

It may sound harsh but the only solution is a war on fatties and an international crackdown on these buttery blimps. they are ghastly to look at and their ravenous insatiable appetite causes me to lose mine. not to mention their odious and noxious body odour which remains long after they leave. they should be rounded up, defumigated with a few cans of deodorant and then chained to a running treadmill until their weight reaches an acceptable tonnage.

Yet another ''inspiring'' post from yourself .

With respect, I suggest you don't hangout in these eateries...........

The wording from cashpower is certainly exagerated, but I had once the very unpleasant experience of flying domestic in the US, basically sandwiched between two properly FAT guys, and it felt as if they took each a 1/4 of my seat.

And after a long, very long 4 hours of flight, I must admit that I had similar thought as expressed by cashpower.

As for the Fat Bootcamp, even the Thai Police have done it already:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/05/fat-thai-police-officers-_n_3550390.html

I'd like to think that once Khun Somchai the policeman is back to normal weight, he would serve as an example to show the larger community of what can should be done.

[mogandave]

...

I think we can also agree that taxation will not work, as it has been clearly proven earlier in the thread, and everyone has agreed to, or at least no one has made an argument discrediting the previously stated facts that just as with cigarettes and alcohol, taxing rice, sugar, fast/junk food would have little or no effect on controlling consumption.

...

Foul. We don't all agree.

Well, I am sorry, but I provided all the pertinent information and you never refuted the information or answered any of my questions.

So, do you have anything to support the claims you have been making that taxing rice, sugar and or fast/junk would significantly reduce consumption among Thais?

If not, I move we close on the issue and move on to actually finding a solution.

[Jingthing]

...

I think we can also agree that taxation will not work, as it has been clearly proven earlier in the thread, and everyone has agreed to, or at least no one has made an argument discrediting the previously stated facts that just as with cigarettes and alcohol, taxing rice, sugar, fast/junk food would have little or no effect on controlling consumption.

...

Foul. We don't all agree.

Well, I am sorry, but I provided all the pertinent information and you never refuted the information or answered any of my questions.

So, do you have anything to support the claims you have been making that taxing rice, sugar and or fast/junk would significantly reduce consumption among Thais?

If not, I move we close on the issue and move on to actually finding a solution.

You are confusing a thread on a forum with some kind of high school debate. Again, total fail. You've shared your opinion only. Nobody is obligated to respond to any of your posts the way you demand. Lack of response to your shrill demands doesn't mean you "win" anything except in your OWN mind. Sometimes people put posters on IGNORE as well because of a personality conflict. So with your odd logic in a case like that the person being ignored can assert the earth is flat, can you counter that, and then if the silly assertion is ignored, it is PROVEN the earth is flat. Good luck with that.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Jingthing