Should Thailand tax junk food to help fight obesity?

[up-country_sinclair]

Oh, please. We are talking about a specific class of very HARMFUL fake food, not that big list. Read the OP, OK?

I just love this "concern" for poor people about regressive taxes. I don't believe you. You don't have REAL concern. Real concern to help stop people in general from killing themselves and do you actually want to pay yourselves for their health care when they get obesity related diseases? I guess your lot is against high cigarette taxes too.

Physician, heal thyself.

Please do not alter the font or emphasis in quoted posts, OK?

I have corrected your violation on my text as above showing my actual post's intended emphasis.

I ain't a doc and it's naive to think that most of the masses are docs either.

Also as I indicated before, even highly educated American doctors make very poor choices as well for THEMSELVES.

This obesity pandemic isn't some kind of joke. It's killing millions of people annually. People expect governments to take action against things like bird flu. It's not that big a jump to expect them to do something about the obesity crisis as well.

First of all, I did not alter the font. I "bolded" and underlined the text for an obvious reason. Which brings me to my second point: I don't think you or the masses are doctors. "Physican, heal thyself" is a biblical passage that has been interpreted to mean "don't point out the faults of others when you display the same faults yourself". In this case telling mogandave that the thread topic was about harmful food and that he should read the OP, and then you brought up cigarettes.

[transam]

Oh, please. We are talking about a specific class of very HARMFUL fake food, not that big list. Read the OP, OK?

I just love this "concern" for poor people about regressive taxes. I don't believe you. You don't have REAL concern. Real concern to help stop people in general from killing themselves and do you actually want to pay yourselves for their health care when they get obesity related diseases? I guess your lot is against high cigarette taxes too.

It's none of our business if someone wants to reduce their life span by doing anything that might. Besides, who decides what is good or what is bad, some ol' MP who spent his life eating meat and two veg. Naaaaaaaaaah, first world countries are turning into dictatorial states as it is.

What next, a farting in public tax.

[Jingthing]

Sir, please do not alter the font or emphasis in any posts that you quote. Clear now? I already said that but you just want to nit pick.

[Jingthing]

Oh please, it's not rocket science to know that highly processed "snacks" and high sugar "soft" drinks are very unhealthy. Duh! Who decides? Basically any educated NUTRITIONIST. To act like it's a big problem to isolate the most harmful fake highly processed foods is suggesting an issue that simply doesn't exist. There is also the question of transfats which do kill people. I am not aware of the transfat situation in Thai processed foods, I generally don't eat Thai processed foods, but if that isn't illegal to use transfats here, it should be! It is not only about taxes but about oversight and regulation in GENERAL.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[up-country_sinclair]

Oh, please. We are talking about a specific class of very HARMFUL fake food, not that big list. Read the OP, OK?

I just love this "concern" for poor people about regressive taxes. I don't believe you. You don't have REAL concern. Real concern to help stop people in general from killing themselves and do you actually want to pay yourselves for their health care when they get obesity related diseases? I guess your lot is against high cigarette taxes too.

It's none of our business if someone wants to reduce their life span by doing anything that might. Besides, who decides what is good or what is bad, some ol' MP who spent his life eating meat and two veg. Naaaaaaaaaah, first world countries are turning into dictatorial states as it is.

What next, a farting in public tax.

Don't give them any ideas.

What there should be is a tax on those individuals who lack the self control and self respect to push themselves away from the table after eating a sensible amount of food. It is shameful how gluttonous some people in our society have become, and their response is that they want to tax those of us who are responsible.

[Jingthing]

Portion size is an issue. Governments can't control how much people eat but they can regulate the more harmful ingredients in widely sold foods. Whether by restriction, taxation, or both. Again governments can't do everything, but they can do something, and to suggest they do nothing in the face of the obesity epidemic which kills millions is Grade A NIHILISM.

So hypothetically (made up numbers for example only) if a million Thais die prematurely from obesity related diseases, and government policies can prevent 25 percent of those premature deaths, is it worth doing or not?

Edited January 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[transam]

Oh please, it's not rocket science to know that highly processed "snacks" and high sugar "soft" drinks are very unhealthy. Duh! Who decides? Basically any educated NUTRITIONIST. To act like it's a big problem to isolate the most harmful fake highly processed foods is suggesting an issue that simply doesn't exist.

There you go. an educated nutritionist, a bloke who spends his day munching celery and running round the bloke every few hours. Next you will want to ban butter, the use of beef fat or sugar in tea. Folk should mind their own business, keep their noses out of others lives, just because THEY are goody goodies.

[up-country_sinclair]

So because this boy and his parents can't control themselves or demonstrate any signs of self respect, I will have to pay an additional tax if I choose to eat a hamburger?

[Jingthing]

Oh please, it's not rocket science to know that highly processed "snacks" and high sugar "soft" drinks are very unhealthy. Duh! Who decides? Basically any educated NUTRITIONIST. To act like it's a big problem to isolate the most harmful fake highly processed foods is suggesting an issue that simply doesn't exist.

There you go. an educated nutritionist, a bloke who spends his day munching celery and running round the bloke every few hours. Next you will want to ban butter, the use of beef fat or sugar in tea. Folk should mind their own business, keep their noses out of others lives, just because THEY are goody goodies.

No. Those are actual foods. They would not be effected. People would of course be able put as much sugar as they like in their tea. On the other hand, highly processed commercial drinks that are overly sweetened would by typical targets. Interestingly, so called "diet" drinks with fake sugar actually do not fight obesity but that's more complicated.

Anyway, this is a global trend, and not to worry, the typical targets are pretty predictable -- HIGHLY PROCESSED mass market commercial fake foods (largely chemicals and corn syrup) and also highly sugared commercial drinks.

As far as transfats, does anyone know the situation on transfats in Thailand? If it's not illegal in commercial foods which it probably isn't, that would be an easy thing to do that would have definite positive health consequences. You'd want POISON to be illegal in commercial foods, wouldn't you?

Edited January 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

So because this boy and his parents can't control themselves or demonstrate any signs of self respect, I will have to pay an additional tax if I choose to eat a hamburger?

That's just a loaded question and you know it. Why consider smart public policy when you can just demonize fat people.

[up-country_sinclair]

So because this boy and his parents can't control themselves or demonstrate any signs of self respect, I will have to pay an additional tax if I choose to eat a hamburger?

That's just a loaded question and you know it. Why consider smart public policy when you can just demonize fat people.

Sir, do not tell me what I do and do not know. Clear now?

I asked a question, and for whatever reason, you've elected not to answer it. Why consider displaying common sense, self-respect, and self-control when you can just levy a tax on everyone. Including people who possess those qualities.

[Jingthing]

That picture was just a cheap attempt at fat shaming. Ignore the social problems. Just mock fat people. It doesn't wash. It's nasty actually.

BTW, those obese kids in the picture, sadly for them, it's likely TOO LATE. Obesity scientists knows kids who are obese like that have a high probability of being obese for life and often dying prematurely from obesity related diseases, no matter how hard they try later to go on so called diets.

The social policy thing is mostly about PREVENTION. A way needs to be found to stop more kids from becoming obese in the first place. No social policy can totally prevent this for all, but definitely there has to be a way to prevent this for MANY.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[up-country_sinclair]

That pictures was just a cheap attempt at fat shaming. Ignore the social problems. Just mock fat people. It doesn't wash. It's nasty actually.

That picture is evidence of a society that has accepted people behaving as gluttonous, fat slobs. Ignore the lack of personal responsibility. Just tax everyone. It doesn't wash. It's ridiculous actually.

[Jingthing]

A difference in philosophy has been revealed. I'm sure over time more and more nations including Thailand will really have little choice but to take action to help prevent more obesity.

[chiangmaibruce]

<snip>But generally speaking, you will find more fat children in private schools than from government schools. Wealthier parents have more money, so they kids are fed more, and may have more western tastes too. I think Thais still cherish their chubby little Thai-Chinese kids! In contrast, some very poor families exist on rice and fish sauce. They are not fat but are certainly malnourished.

My understanding is that research suggests that the incidence of overweight in Thailand began as an urban/richer demographic phenomenon, but then increasingly has spread into other segments including rural/poorer people. I have listed some of that research at the end of my paper, which I provided a link to in an earlier post ... to save you scrolling it's at www.burning-bison.com/obesity.htm

Edited January 1, 2014 by chiangmaibruce

[transam]

In the UK they put huge taxes on petrol to reduce pollution and on cigarettes so folk would live longer, now the government is complaining cos folk live longer. But what did it do. The poor were deprived of what they wanted to do and the well off carried on as normal.

[Jingthing]

In the UK they put huge taxes on petrol to reduce pollution and on cigarettes so folk would live longer, now the government is complaining cos folk live longer. But what did it do. The poor were deprived of what they wanted to do and the well off carried on as normal.

Good point. As I've said before, taxation is only one potential part of it. There are also restrictions and true LABELING issues as well. The thing is, I'm not a NIHILIST. I think governments should try when there is a serious threat to their population such as the obesity epidemic. Not do nothing just because there might be problems doing something.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[samran]

The intention of the OP is more about developing social policies to address the growing obesity epidemic at a national level in Thailand and save lives. Leave "Lefty" out of it. The radical libertarian approach does none of that. It's just a pie in the sky purist ideology that simply doesn't work at moving towards goals for society as a whole. Say to everyone, deal with it yourselves, and they mostly don't, and these wacko libertarian radicals simply don't care. They ONLY care about themselves. What kind of SOCIETY is that exactly?

Sorry, okay, the thread is about yet another liberal policy that punishes the poor and benefits the rich under the guise of helping people. And the progressives here (you included) are quick to point out that if one does not agree, one does not care about others, which is a typical leferrrr progressive means avoiding having to formulate a response and stifling discussion.

People that care about themselves eat heathy yes? So a society consisting of everyone caring about themselves would be healthy, yes?

Rather than just attacking and calling me names, why not make an attempt to address what has been said?

Incidentally, I am far from being a Libertarian.

Quite one for the name calling aren't you? Lefty this, lefty that.

And you have the gumption to criticise others for name calling. Poor Diddums.

Quick to label others, but with an awfully thin skin. Fortunately, it's petty clear you are all tip and no iceberg. So debating you of this is going to be as painful as being flogged by wet lettuce.

Happy new year!

My position is that a hideously regressive tax is being proposed that punishes the poor and benefits the rich is being proposed.

Your response is to attack me. Typical.

It is set to be a great year. Go with God brother!

Pigs arse it is a regressive tax. The incidence of obesity tends to rise with income and affluence. You call something regressive tax wise if it impacts the poorest disproportionally more as a percentage of their income. In the case of a truely regressive tax, such as a VAT/GST then you basically compensate people by raising income tax thresholds.

A sin tax on junk is going to impact those newly middle class, hardly regressive unless you are one of the typical proponents who moan about these things when their real agenda is the preservation of their middle class welfare from the government. You know the type, those for whom government is a evil thing, unless of course you are a key beneficiary of the government. Amongst Thai Visa's bigger hypocrites, you blokes are up there with the anti immigrant immigrants to Thailand; and are generally one in the same.

[Jingthing]

I have to admit I don't know the specific details on the best of all possible world government tactics that would work best in Thailand to stem the tide of the obesity epidemic. I don't think they should do just ANYTHING for the sake of doing something. But I think there is something POSSIBLE that they could do to help but the details are above my pay grade, especially as this isn't even my country. So yes I think a GOOD Thai government would be working on this if they actually care about their people, of course, that's questionable as well.

[A1Str8]

Yes. But then people would find other ways to get fu_kin obese.

[David48]

That picture was just a cheap attempt at fat shaming. Ignore the social problems. Just mock fat people. It doesn't wash. It's nasty actually.

HERE

Not that you are ever guilty of that JT ...

You live where in Thailand?

HERE

It was the gratuitous use of a photo that suited your purpose.

From that article ... the only time it referred to children was in this statement ... "The study also found that road accidents, violence, and HIV-infection were major causes of death among men aged between 15 and 29 years of age."

It was just a photo you needed to suite your post.

If you BS ... most times you get caught out ...

.

[mogandave]

Oh, please. We are talking about a specific class of very HARMFUL fake food, not that big list. Read the OP, OK?

I just love this "concern" for poor people about regressive taxes. I don't believe you. You don't have REAL concern. Real concern to help stop people in general from killing themselves and do you actually want to pay yourselves for their health care when they get obesity related diseases? I guess your lot is against high cigarette taxes too.

Because I don't agree with you, you attack me, call me a liar, and claim I don't care about the poor. Typical.

Again, why not just address what I say?

White flour, most breads, ice cream, candy, processed sugar, potato chips and anything else unhealthy would have to go at some point. There would be no end to it. So you end up with a board making all these determinations about what is okay and what is not okay, and big business and lobbyists are going to have a hey-day, and the rich will continue to get richer.

Yes, I am against high cigarette taxes.

[brit1984]

enough talk, it's time for action...

[mogandave]

Pigs arse it is a regressive tax. The incidence of obesity tends to rise with income and affluence. You call something regressive tax wise if it impacts the poorest disproportionally more as a percentage of their income. In the case of a truely regressive tax, such as a VAT/GST then you basically compensate people by raising income tax thresholds.

A sin tax on junk is going to impact those newly middle class, hardly regressive unless you are one of the typical proponents who moan about these things when their real agenda is the preservation of their middle class welfare from the government. You know the type, those for whom government is a evil thing, unless of course you are a key beneficiary of the government. Amongst Thai Visa's bigger hypocrites, you blokes are up there with the anti immigrant immigrants to Thailand; and are generally one in the same.

You know nothing about me and call me a hypocrite? On what grounds?

It seems to me that taxing rice in Thailand would impact the poorest disproportionately more as a percentage of their income. Can you explain how it would not?

I agree (and stated as much earlier in the discussion) that obesity generally increases with income, which makes the whole "tax the rice" argument so silly. Even doubling the price will do little to reduce the amount of rice the non-poor consume.

Be honest, do you really think taxing white rice would significantly reduce obesity in Thailand?

Bonus question: Do you believe people in the US are getting fatter because they are too poor to make heather food choices?

[brit1984]

all fast food outlets should install special floors (like a treadmill) that continuously flow away from the counter at high speed so customers have to run to get to their food

Edited January 1, 2014 by brit1984

[Jingthing]

Yes. But then people would find other ways to get fu_kin obese.

Do you think most people are happy being obese? Not only the health issues but the social stigma as well.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jingthing]

That picture was just a cheap attempt at fat shaming. Ignore the social problems. Just mock fat people. It doesn't wash. It's nasty actually.

HERE

Not that you are ever guilty of that JT ...

You live where in Thailand?

HERE

It was the gratuitous use of a photo that suited your purpose.

From that article ... the only time it referred to children was in this statement ... "The study also found that road accidents, violence, and HIV-infection were major causes of death among men aged between 15 and 29 years of age."

It was just a photo you needed to suite your post.

If you BS ... most times you get caught out ...

.

Not the same thing at all. The McD pic shows kids stuffing their faces. If you don't get the difference too bad.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MrGaoMungGawn]

I think that Thailand should tax candy and sugar, and use the tax dollars to buy dental work for less financially fortunate children.

This would make Thailand the land of more beautiful smiles.

[laobali]

That picture was just a cheap attempt at fat shaming. Ignore the social problems. Just mock fat people. It doesn't wash. It's nasty actually.

HERE

Not that you are ever guilty of that JT ...

You live where in Thailand?

HERE

It was the gratuitous use of a photo that suited your purpose.

From that article ... the only time it referred to children was in this statement ... "The study also found that road accidents, violence, and HIV-infection were major causes of death among men aged between 15 and 29 years of age."

It was just a photo you needed to suite your post.

If you BS ... most times you get caught out ...

.

Not the same thing at all. The McD pic shows kids stuffing their faces. If you don't get the difference too bad.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The photo should be shown everywhere as a message. The first boy's arm looks too short for his hand to reach his mouth. Force-fed by his family?

[transam]

I think that Thailand should tax candy and sugar, and use the tax dollars to buy dental work for less financially fortunate children.

This would make Thailand the land of more beautiful smiles.

Perhaps Thai parents should first stop giving m/cycle keys to underage, unlicensed, uninsured kids so they live longer eh.