Plastic laptops, no 12.1" screens and staying with Windows 7 - don't want Windows 8

[anon8]

Thanks. After some advice in another post, I had a look onthe internet.

I'm looking at a Sony Vaio E Series in 14". Not too much bigger than the 12.1". It's got good specs and looks to have a decent build quality. I would like to see and touch one though. I'll compare it the the models you mentioned shortly.

E Series must be an older model, even though it's brand new. They have one with Windows 7 Pro and one with Windows 8. The one with Windows 7 is actually more expensive. :)

Undetood! But 14 incher is pretty much full size laptop, not ultra portable. But if it is very thin and light, and you know you take it with you everywhere, go for it!

But for travelling I dont like anything larger than 11". There are some 9" netbooks, even Sony had one about a year ago, but it was very low spec.

Sent from my C6903 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[losworld]

Mac Book Air or Mac Book Pro.

I made the change a couple of years ago and never regretted for one day.

My Mac Book Pro travells with me on business every week and never a problem.

Took out the DVD player and added a 1T hard drive so have lots of storage space for all my files

I had a numbe of macbook pros. Many had failed due to bad motherboards and the dvd player was a piece of crap. I liked the machine but way way overpriced and it became a joke when a separate graphics card became "optional". I picked up an hp that for 500 us does all macbook pro can do and for a fraction of the price. And Mac has become so arrogant with declining customer service. I took back a macbook pro with a defective motherboard which mac admitted was bad and the pretentious little Brit manager at the Century City mall in LA said "cannot help". He pretty much summed up what Apple had become: overpriced and overrated.

Edited January 2, 2014 by losworld

[anon8]

I had a numbe of macbook pros. Many had failed due to bad motherboards

And Mac has become so arrogant with declining customer service. I took back a macbook pro with a defective motherboard which mac admitted was bad and the pretentious little Brit manager at the Century City mall in LA said "cannot help". He pretty much summed up what Apple had become: overpriced and overrated.

Same here. I bought 17" unibody macbook pro 4 years ago, I have always admired Apples industrial design, and excellent build quality. And 4 years ago it was just about the only large 1080p display you could find. Installed Win7 on it, never like apple os.

But what Apple is doing now is beyond.

The cost of upgrading storage on ipads and iphones is obscene, even Apple fans admit that.

Of course Apple ipad and iphone will never have SD card slot, god forbid user will buy 32Gb sd card for next to nothing, while Apple charges $100 for 16G uprade.

Same with Macbbok Air, uprading cost to larger SSD is inexcusable.

For reasons known only to hardcore Apples fans, this business model works.

If was Mac fan, I would feel this is insulting. I would change the team.

[Pib]

The Samsung ATIV 7 series has aluminum cases. I don't think they are listed on the Samsung Thailand website yet but they are in stores...I've seen them at places like IT City, BananaIT, etc. Plus they come with Win 8 installed...no need to buy separately. I was in the market lately for a new laptop and was looking around quite a bit....I ended up buying a Lenovo Z510 (plastic case) 15.6" display with I7 processor but I was tempted by Samsung models because their reliability rating is high and they look really nice IMHO. But when the dust settled I went with the Lenovo due to the price and I7 processor. I bought Win 8.1 separately and installed it. Win 8 takes some getting use to but after you learn how to utilize both the legacy Desktop screen like in Win 7 and the new Start screen in Win 8.1 it works out pretty good...call it the best of both worlds. And Win 8.1 starts up a lot faster than Win 7.

Capture.JPG

Thanks. I'll check out the Samsung.

As mentioned in another post, I just have the feeling Windows 8 with be another Windows Vista. I would like to avoid it for a while, if possible.

Vista was a disaster....the saddest day of my computer life was when I upgraded to Vista and the happiest day of my computer life was when I upgraded from Vista to Win 7. I too had no urge to upgrade to Win 8 due to its bad press, but since I was buying a brand new computer I figured I would start with Win 8.1. It takes a little getting use to especially the first week, but I'm definitely glad I went with Win 8.1 instead of loading Win 7. I can't speak to how much different Win 8.1 is from Win 8.0, but Win 8.1 apparently fixed/modified some of the Win 8.0 issues that people hated. Win 8.1 is running smooth as silk for me.

[KhunHeineken]

While I am not a big fan of windows, and I do currently run XP and 7, Windows 8 is not all that bad.

I am currently evaluating 8.1. It is very very similar to 7. Some things are better, while other issues are still present, and of course, MS has managed to introduce new issues.

But, to me anyway, the key to windows 8 is to ditch the Metro interface and install Classic Shell (it's free) and windows 8.1 will look and behave much like 7.

I googled around for information on Classic Shell.

The guy in this Tube video sums up my feelings towards my brief encounter with Windows 8 perfectly.

The Classic Shell does look more user friendly, but around 7 minutes 30 seconds (near the end) of this video, this guy makes a very good point.

What if Microsoft release an update that conflicts with Classic Shell and stops it working, either intentionally, or unintentionally? You are then pushed back onto Microsoft's product, Windows 8, which is not very unser friendly.

I never thought it would be so hard to just buy a new laptop, with decent build quality, higher end specs and Windows 7.

[KhunHeineken]

The Samsung ATIV 7 series has aluminum cases. I don't think they are listed on the Samsung Thailand website yet but they are in stores...I've seen them at places like IT City, BananaIT, etc. Plus they come with Win 8 installed...no need to buy separately. I was in the market lately for a new laptop and was looking around quite a bit....I ended up buying a Lenovo Z510 (plastic case) 15.6" display with I7 processor but I was tempted by Samsung models because their reliability rating is high and they look really nice IMHO. But when the dust settled I went with the Lenovo due to the price and I7 processor. I bought Win 8.1 separately and installed it. Win 8 takes some getting use to but after you learn how to utilize both the legacy Desktop screen like in Win 7 and the new Start screen in Win 8.1 it works out pretty good...call it the best of both worlds. And Win 8.1 starts up a lot faster than Win 7.

Capture.JPG

Thanks. I'll check out the Samsung.

As mentioned in another post, I just have the feeling Windows 8 with be another Windows Vista. I would like to avoid it for a while, if possible.

Vista was a disaster....the saddest day of my computer life was when I upgraded to Vista and the happiest day of my computer life was when I upgraded from Vista to Win 7. I too had no urge to upgrade to Win 8 due to its bad press, but since I was buying a brand new computer I figured I would start with Win 8.1. It takes a little getting use to especially the first week, but I'm definitely glad I went with Win 8.1 instead of loading Win 7. I can't speak to how much different Win 8.1 is from Win 8.0, but Win 8.1 apparently fixed/modified some of the Win 8.0 issues that people hated. Win 8.1 is running smooth as silk for me.

Too right Vista was a disaster, and Windows 8 is shaping up the same way.

You can already roll back Windows 8 Pro to be more like Windows 7.

I wouldn't be suprised in 6 months time if they release Windows 9 which is basically a super version of Windows 7, just the way they released Windows 7, soon after Vista, for all the unhappy Vista owners, which is tempting me to hold off on a new laptop purchase.

Edited January 2, 2014 by KhunHeineken

[Jiu-Jitsu]

The Samsung ATIV 7 series has aluminum cases. I don't think they are listed on the Samsung Thailand website yet but they are in stores...I've seen them at places like IT City, BananaIT, etc. Plus they come with Win 8 installed...no need to buy separately. I was in the market lately for a new laptop and was looking around quite a bit....I ended up buying a Lenovo Z510 (plastic case) 15.6" display with I7 processor but I was tempted by Samsung models because their reliability rating is high and they look really nice IMHO. But when the dust settled I went with the Lenovo due to the price and I7 processor. I bought Win 8.1 separately and installed it. Win 8 takes some getting use to but after you learn how to utilize both the legacy Desktop screen like in Win 7 and the new Start screen in Win 8.1 it works out pretty good...call it the best of both worlds. And Win 8.1 starts up a lot faster than Win 7.

Capture.JPG

Thanks. I'll check out the Samsung.

As mentioned in another post, I just have the feeling Windows 8 with be another Windows Vista. I would like to avoid it for a while, if possible.

Vista was a disaster....the saddest day of my computer life was when I upgraded to Vista and the happiest day of my computer life was when I upgraded from Vista to Win 7. I too had no urge to upgrade to Win 8 due to its bad press, but since I was buying a brand new computer I figured I would start with Win 8.1. It takes a little getting use to especially the first week, but I'm definitely glad I went with Win 8.1 instead of loading Win 7. I can't speak to how much different Win 8.1 is from Win 8.0, but Win 8.1 apparently fixed/modified some of the Win 8.0 issues that people hated. Win 8.1 is running smooth as silk for me.

Too right Vista was a disaster, and Windows 8 is shaping up the same way.

You can already roll back Windows 8 Pro to be more like Windows 7.

I wouldn't be suprised in 6 months time if they release Windows 9 which is basically a super version of Windows 7, just the way they released Windows 7, soon after Vista, for all the unhappy Vista owners, which is tempting me to hold off on a new laptop purchase.

That is wrong. You can downgrade to Windows 7 Pro from Windows 8 Pro for free. So it is Windows 7.

[KhunHeineken]

@ Jiu-Jitsu

I'm getting some conflicting information here. Can you read post number 6? Is it a downgrade to Windows 7 or just a variation of Windows 8?

Also, I notice a lot of laptops for sale with Windows 8 and Windows 8.1, and not as many with Windows 8 Pro, probably because the downgrade is so popular.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

@ Jiu-Jitsu

I'm getting some conflicting information here. Can you read post number 6? Is it a downgrade to Windows 7 or just a variation of Windows 8?

Also, I notice a lot of laptops for sale with Windows 8 and Windows 8.1, and not as many with Windows 8 Pro, probably because the downgrade is so popular.

Yes I can read post #6. Nothing to do with me.

I've already told you twice, so why are you asking again??

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Read this...

[Jiu-Jitsu]

It is important to create a Restore USB Drive before you attempt to downgrade. I would also back up the activation and product key further to this. That will cover every angle for a possible eventual re-install of Windows 8.2

Alternatively you may wish to purchase a machine with no OS. But middle to high end machines tend to have an OS installed.

[Pib]

@ Jiu-Jitsu

I'm getting some conflicting information here. Can you read post number 6? Is it a downgrade to Windows 7 or just a variation of Windows 8?

Also, I notice a lot of laptops for sale with Windows 8 and Windows 8.1, and not as many with Windows 8 Pro, probably because the downgrade is so popular.

Probably due to the fact Win 8.1 has very recently come out and the great majority of computers for sale right now were produced months ago before Win 8.1's release. Give it another 3-6 months and all the computers coming with Windows will be 8.1, and Win 8.0 will just be a history book footnote. And of course the Win 8.0 upgrade to Win 8.1 is free. Jumping back and forth between the Desktop screen and Start screen in Win 8.1 is super easy.

The additional features in Win 8 Pro, Bitlocker, Remote Desktop Connection, and Domain connection capability are features that a small percentage of people would use (I'm guessing way less than 10%) and just the description of those features probably makes most peoples eyes just glaze over. Therefore, the computer manufacturers don't give extra Microsoft extra money just to install Win 8 Pro compared to lower cost Win 8/8.1 which hopefully makes the computers a little cheaper to the consumer. Plus, in Thailand and other countries its pretty common for computers to be sold with only DOS installed (makes the computer cheaper by not having Windows pre-installed...the manufacturer didn't have to pay Bill Gates a licensing fee) and then the consumer can just buy/install the OS of their choice.

[KhunHeineken]

It is important to create a Restore USB Drive before you attempt to downgrade. I would also back up the activation and product key further to this. That will cover every angle for a possible eventual re-install of Windows 8.2

Alternatively you may wish to purchase a machine with no OS. But middle to high end machines tend to have an OS installed.

My plans was to buy a higher end laptop which would have an OS installed. It will most likely be Windows 8. I was going to remove the HDD and replace it with another HDD and load Wndows 7 on it.

I'll put the old (but new) HDD in storage, in case I ever do want Windows 8.

Using this method, am I correct in saying, there would be no need to back up the activation and product key because they are stored on the HDD that I have removed and stored away?

Are there any other adjustments that need to be made for doing this?

[Jiu-Jitsu]

It is important to create a Restore USB Drive before you attempt to downgrade. I would also back up the activation and product key further to this. That will cover every angle for a possible eventual re-install of Windows 8.2

Alternatively you may wish to purchase a machine with no OS. But middle to high end machines tend to have an OS installed.

My plans was to buy a higher end laptop which would have an OS installed. It will most likely be Windows 8. I was going to remove the HDD and replace it with another HDD and load Wndows 7 on it.

I'll put the old (but new) HDD in storage, in case I ever do want Windows 8.

Using this method, am I correct in saying, there would be no need to back up the activation and product key because they are stored on the HDD that I have removed and stored away?

Are there any other adjustments that need to be made for doing this?

Is there an echo in here?? I can hear the same thing over and over....

Back up the activation and product key...cover all bases.

New machines should have 8.1 anyway. Go for that rather than having to go through the rigmarole of updating to 8.1 or 8.2.

You'll still have to disable Secure Boot et al in order to install Windows 7. Everything that I wrote before still goes.

Don't bother to buy a licence for Windows 7 beforehand. One can download an image via Digital River in order to test the hardware first, before committing.

[taotoo]

I haven't used a recent thinkpad, but traditionally they're pretty well built. Perhaps worth investigating.

[KhunHeineken]

It is important to create a Restore USB Drive before you attempt to downgrade. I would also back up the activation and product key further to this. That will cover every angle for a possible eventual re-install of Windows 8.2

Alternatively you may wish to purchase a machine with no OS. But middle to high end machines tend to have an OS installed.

My plans was to buy a higher end laptop which would have an OS installed. It will most likely be Windows 8. I was going to remove the HDD and replace it with another HDD and load Wndows 7 on it.

I'll put the old (but new) HDD in storage, in case I ever do want Windows 8.

Using this method, am I correct in saying, there would be no need to back up the activation and product key because they are stored on the HDD that I have removed and stored away?

Are there any other adjustments that need to be made for doing this?

Is there an echo in here?? I can hear the same thing over and over....

Back up the activation and product key...cover all bases.

New machines should have 8.1 anyway. Go for that rather than having to go through the rigmarole of updating to 8.1 or 8.2.

You'll still have to disable Secure Boot et al in order to install Windows 7. Everything that I wrote before still goes.

Don't bother to buy a licence for Windows 7 beforehand. One can download an image via Digital River in order to test the hardware first, before committing.

I'm thinking I might go for a laptop with Windows 8.1 Pro with downgrade rights to Windows 7. This You Tube tutorial seems easy enough to follow. If the downgraded Windows 7 is not exactly like the Windows 7 I am familiar with, I intall a copy and be done with it.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

It is important to create a Restore USB Drive before you attempt to downgrade. I would also back up the activation and product key further to this. That will cover every angle for a possible eventual re-install of Windows 8.2

Alternatively you may wish to purchase a machine with no OS. But middle to high end machines tend to have an OS installed.

My plans was to buy a higher end laptop which would have an OS installed. It will most likely be Windows 8. I was going to remove the HDD and replace it with another HDD and load Wndows 7 on it.

I'll put the old (but new) HDD in storage, in case I ever do want Windows 8.

Using this method, am I correct in saying, there would be no need to back up the activation and product key because they are stored on the HDD that I have removed and stored away?

Are there any other adjustments that need to be made for doing this?

Is there an echo in here?? I can hear the same thing over and over....

Back up the activation and product key...cover all bases.

New machines should have 8.1 anyway. Go for that rather than having to go through the rigmarole of updating to 8.1 or 8.2.

You'll still have to disable Secure Boot et al in order to install Windows 7. Everything that I wrote before still goes.

Don't bother to buy a licence for Windows 7 beforehand. One can download an image via Digital River in order to test the hardware first, before committing.

I'm thinking I might go for a laptop with Windows 8.1 Pro with downgrade rights to Windows 7. This You Tube tutorial seems easy enough to follow. If the downgraded Windows 7 is not exactly like the Windows 7 I am familiar with, I intall a copy and be done with it.

Is there something the matter with you?

You will be installing Windows 7 Professional using a Windows 7 Professional disc. It will be Windows 7 Professional. No like or similar, but actually.

[bendejo]

OP: a laptop usually lasts me three years. I can be clumsy and careless, but I'm impressed with the way mine have held together. My current Toshiba fell off the table a few weeks ago (a little less than a 1 meter drop) and survived without a crack, though a snap-together seam or two needed a squeeze.

Thing is my laptops always die of something internal. Had a Fujitsu that one day shorted out when I connected my external HD to the USB port; also that model had some weird internal condensation problem caused by keeping the machine overnight in an air conditioned room. I replaced it with a Compaq that also survived some clumsiness and it eventually succumbed to some hw weirdness in the circuitry connecting to the monitor -- when it happened and I looked it up it seems I was fortunate to have it working for three years, as it was a known flaw in that model that many were experiencing within a few months.

A lot of laptop models in the US$500 range are near identical to some sold by the same companies in the $2,000 range, designated as business models. This has to do with "you get what you pay for" logic, especially with business customers, and if things go wrong it could mean someone's job if the question gets asked "who's idea was it to go with the cheap laptops?" Also, like cars, there is some status involved, eg a corporate exec has to have something better than does a sales rep.

Yeah, the thing about pressure on the lid being visible on the screen is something we have to live with. I always make sure the screen side gets the cushier side of the case when I pack.

Ran into a guy once with a ruggedized laptop, said he couldn't use it in public places because it looked suspicious, got some weary glances, people would ask if it was a James Bond computer.

[NeverSure]

I won't repeat my whole frustrating story again, but I wiped my hdd and installed Win 7 only to find that there are no drivers available for Win 7 for some of my new key components including video. I spent about 2 days trying to get the machine to work before giving up and re-installing 8 with Classic Shell.

There's a lot more to the story, but this was a brand new Toshiba built for win 8.

Whatever you do, don't delete the partition with the restore function (image.)

[KhunHeineken]

@ Jiu-Jitsu

When it comes to IT, there are no stupid questions, so ease of on the insults and echoing. If you don't want to post, then don't.

You said: "New machines should have 8.1 anyway. Go for that rather than having to go through the rigmarole of updating to 8.1 or 8.2."

My understanding is: ONLY WINDOWS 8.1 PRO has downgrade rights. Is this correct, or have I been given wrong information? If this information is correct, all I was seeking to clarify was if the Windows 7 downgrade, was EXACTLY Windows 7, or some BS version of Windows 8 that was made to function a little more like Windows 7.

If it is EXACTLY Windows 7, it would be beneficial to buy a laptop with downgrade rights, rather than pay for an original Windows 7 copy to go onto the new machine, or go down the pirate copy path.

I understand what you have said about backing up the activation and product key. I should do that, but can not see myself using Windows 8 in the future.

I'll stick with Windows 7 until there is at least Windows 9. For me, Windows 8 is sh*te. In my opinion, it will be another Windows Vista, and I expect to see Windows 9, or a Windows 7 version of Windows 8, in the near future, hence, once again, my above question.

In fact, by offering downgrade rights, it appears Microsoft have admitted they have developed a product that is unpopular, especially in the business sector of the market.

Edited January 21, 2014 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

I won't repeat my whole frustrating story again, but I wiped my hdd and installed Win 7 only to find that there are no drivers available for Win 7 for some of my new key components including video. I spent about 2 days trying to get the machine to work before giving up and re-installing 8 with Classic Shell.

There's a lot more to the story, but this was a brand new Toshiba built for win 8.

Whatever you do, don't delete the partition with the restore function (image.)

It appears I'm going to have to pay bigger money for a high spec' machine with Windows 8.1 Pro which has downgrade rights so I don't encounter the problems you mention.

A lot of people are happy with running Classic Shell, but if Microsoft release and update that is incompatible with Classic Shell, that leaves us back with Windows 8.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

@ Jiu-Jitsu

When it comes to IT, there are no stupid questions, so ease of on the insults and echoing. If you don't want to post, then don't.

You said: "New machines should have 8.1 anyway. Go for that rather than having to go through the rigmarole of updating to 8.1 or 8.2."

My understanding is: ONLY WINDOWS 8.1 PRO has downgrade rights. Is this correct, or have I been given wrong information? If this information is correct, all I was seeking to clarify was if the Windows 7 downgrade, was EXACTLY Windows 7, or some BS version of Windows 8 that was made to function a little more like Windows 7.

If it is EXACTLY Windows 7, it would be beneficial to buy a laptop with downgrade rights, rather than pay for an original Windows 7 copy to go onto the new machine, or go down the pirate copy path.

I understand what you have said about backing up the activation and product key. I should do that, but can not see myself using Windows 8 in the future.

I'll stick with Windows 7 until there is at least Windows 9. For me, Windows 8 is sh*te. In my opinion, it will be another Windows Vista, and I expect to see Windows 9, or a Windows 7 version of Windows 8, in the near future, hence, once again, my above question.

In fact, by offering downgrade rights, it appears Microsoft have admitted they have developed a product that is unpopular, especially in the business sector of the market.

Was that an attempt at irony? Don't make up phrases and pass them off as fait accompli. There are stupid questions, especially when it has been explained clearly a number of times. Post #37 is unambiguous. Post #40 expands on it.

As to my posts...you are going to have to take the rough with the smooth or simply ignore the contents of my posts.

Now that is out of the way....

[KhunHeineken]

@ Jiu-Jitsu

When it comes to IT, there are no stupid questions, so ease of on the insults and echoing. If you don't want to post, then don't.

You said: "New machines should have 8.1 anyway. Go for that rather than having to go through the rigmarole of updating to 8.1 or 8.2."

My understanding is: ONLY WINDOWS 8.1 PRO has downgrade rights. Is this correct, or have I been given wrong information? If this information is correct, all I was seeking to clarify was if the Windows 7 downgrade, was EXACTLY Windows 7, or some BS version of Windows 8 that was made to function a little more like Windows 7.

If it is EXACTLY Windows 7, it would be beneficial to buy a laptop with downgrade rights, rather than pay for an original Windows 7 copy to go onto the new machine, or go down the pirate copy path.

I understand what you have said about backing up the activation and product key. I should do that, but can not see myself using Windows 8 in the future.

I'll stick with Windows 7 until there is at least Windows 9. For me, Windows 8 is sh*te. In my opinion, it will be another Windows Vista, and I expect to see Windows 9, or a Windows 7 version of Windows 8, in the near future, hence, once again, my above question.

In fact, by offering downgrade rights, it appears Microsoft have admitted they have developed a product that is unpopular, especially in the business sector of the market.

Was that an attempt at irony? Don't make up phrases and pass them off as fait accompli. There are stupid questions, especially when it has been explained clearly a number of times. Post #37 is unambiguous. Post #40 expands on it.

As to my posts...you are going to have to take the rough with the smooth or simply ignore the contents of my posts.

Now that is out of the way....

I've read your posts and read the links you have posted as well. I only seeked some clarity on some minor things.

I have no shame in admitting I am not up on the lastest when it comes to IT. It was never my field of expertise.

As it stands, I'll probably just pay someone to do the conversion, or buy one of the last few laptops going around that comes with Windows 7.

I'm pretty much over the whole Windows 8 BS and what most people are doing to get Windows 7 on their new hardware.

Edited January 21, 2014 by KhunHeineken

[Jiu-Jitsu]

@ Jiu-Jitsu

When it comes to IT, there are no stupid questions, so ease of on the insults and echoing. If you don't want to post, then don't.

You said: "New machines should have 8.1 anyway. Go for that rather than having to go through the rigmarole of updating to 8.1 or 8.2."

My understanding is: ONLY WINDOWS 8.1 PRO has downgrade rights. Is this correct, or have I been given wrong information? If this information is correct, all I was seeking to clarify was if the Windows 7 downgrade, was EXACTLY Windows 7, or some BS version of Windows 8 that was made to function a little more like Windows 7.

If it is EXACTLY Windows 7, it would be beneficial to buy a laptop with downgrade rights, rather than pay for an original Windows 7 copy to go onto the new machine, or go down the pirate copy path.

I understand what you have said about backing up the activation and product key. I should do that, but can not see myself using Windows 8 in the future.

I'll stick with Windows 7 until there is at least Windows 9. For me, Windows 8 is sh*te. In my opinion, it will be another Windows Vista, and I expect to see Windows 9, or a Windows 7 version of Windows 8, in the near future, hence, once again, my above question.

In fact, by offering downgrade rights, it appears Microsoft have admitted they have developed a product that is unpopular, especially in the business sector of the market.

Was that an attempt at irony? Don't make up phrases and pass them off as fait accompli. There are stupid questions, especially when it has been explained clearly a number of times. Post #37 is unambiguous. Post #40 expands on it.

As to my posts...you are going to have to take the rough with the smooth or simply ignore the contents of my posts.

Now that is out of the way....

I've read your posts and read the links you have posted as well. I only seeked some clarity on some minor things.

I have no shame in admitting I am not up on the lastest when it comes to IT. It was never my field of expertise.

As it stands, I'll probably just pay someone to do the conversion, or buy one of the last few laptops going around that comes with Windows 7.

I'm pretty much over the whole Windows 8 BS and what most people are doing to get Windows 7 on their new hardware.

Then you might as well buy one without an OS and let them install any old crap.

[KhunHeineken]

@ Jiu-Jitsu

When it comes to IT, there are no stupid questions, so ease of on the insults and echoing. If you don't want to post, then don't.

You said: "New machines should have 8.1 anyway. Go for that rather than having to go through the rigmarole of updating to 8.1 or 8.2."

My understanding is: ONLY WINDOWS 8.1 PRO has downgrade rights. Is this correct, or have I been given wrong information? If this information is correct, all I was seeking to clarify was if the Windows 7 downgrade, was EXACTLY Windows 7, or some BS version of Windows 8 that was made to function a little more like Windows 7.

If it is EXACTLY Windows 7, it would be beneficial to buy a laptop with downgrade rights, rather than pay for an original Windows 7 copy to go onto the new machine, or go down the pirate copy path.

I understand what you have said about backing up the activation and product key. I should do that, but can not see myself using Windows 8 in the future.

I'll stick with Windows 7 until there is at least Windows 9. For me, Windows 8 is sh*te. In my opinion, it will be another Windows Vista, and I expect to see Windows 9, or a Windows 7 version of Windows 8, in the near future, hence, once again, my above question.

In fact, by offering downgrade rights, it appears Microsoft have admitted they have developed a product that is unpopular, especially in the business sector of the market.

Was that an attempt at irony? Don't make up phrases and pass them off as fait accompli. There are stupid questions, especially when it has been explained clearly a number of times. Post #37 is unambiguous. Post #40 expands on it.

As to my posts...you are going to have to take the rough with the smooth or simply ignore the contents of my posts.

Now that is out of the way....

I've read your posts and read the links you have posted as well. I only seeked some clarity on some minor things.

I have no shame in admitting I am not up on the lastest when it comes to IT. It was never my field of expertise.

As it stands, I'll probably just pay someone to do the conversion, or buy one of the last few laptops going around that comes with Windows 7.

I'm pretty much over the whole Windows 8 BS and what most people are doing to get Windows 7 on their new hardware.

Then you might as well buy one without an OS and let them install any old crap.

I thought about that, and I might go down that path. Just update to cheap new laptop every couple of years. As one poster said, the plastic laptops seem to take a bit of puishment. If one breaks, you just get another. Disposable laptops, really.

The other option, which was my initial idea, getting a decent laptop, putting Windows 8 in storage and loading Windows 7. I'm looking at some on the internet from America.

Does anyone have any idea on the tax and duty to have a laptop, say the cost of it is around the $1000US mark, shipped to Thailand? When, where and to who does the import duty get paid?

[onlycw]

Well, I like older Thinkpads like the T-61P = titanium or their 12" models (X-something). Get the maximum RAM and you should have a solid notebook for 10 grand. Source? Ebay USA. The usual stuff like watching videos, doing word processing can be handled by an old CPU with maybe 2.5 Ghz. And I'm a fan of XP - compare the boot times and speed and weep.

[Pib]

Well, I like older Thinkpads like the T-61P = titanium or their 12" models (X-something). Get the maximum RAM and you should have a solid notebook for 10 grand. Source? Ebay USA. The usual stuff like watching videos, doing word processing can be handled by an old CPU with maybe 2.5 Ghz. And I'm a fan of XP - compare the boot times and speed and weep.

Regarding XP, remember Microsoft cuts off support, like for XP automatic updates, on 8 Apr 14. And if using Microsoft Security Essentials for your antivirus software be sure to download it before 8 Apr or you won't be able to for XP anymore (you can for Visa/Win7/Win8 just not XP)....if you already have MSE installed it will continue to work...and MSE virus definition updates will continue for another year I think I read somewhere then that is dead for updates also if running XP. I've still go a Toshiba laptop running a Celeron CPU (its a backup computer) and it takes about 2 minutes to fully boot up on XP...of course other things booting up along with the XP slows the boot down. Also have a Lenovo with an I7 quad core CPU running Win 8.1 and it boots up in 15-20 seconds including all the other stuff booting up along with Win 8.1...and this Lenovo just has a standard 1GB hard drive...not an SSD drive....I'm thinking with a SSD drive it would boot up under 10 seconds.

[KhunHeineken]

Well, I like older Thinkpads like the T-61P = titanium or their 12" models (X-something). Get the maximum RAM and you should have a solid notebook for 10 grand. Source? Ebay USA. The usual stuff like watching videos, doing word processing can be handled by an old CPU with maybe 2.5 Ghz. And I'm a fan of XP - compare the boot times and speed and weep.

Regarding XP, remember Microsoft cuts off support, like for XP automatic updates, on 8 Apr 14. And if using Microsoft Security Essentials for your antivirus software be sure to download it before 8 Apr or you won't be able to for XP anymore (you can for Visa/Win7/Win8 just not XP)....if you already have MSE installed it will continue to work...and MSE virus definition updates will continue for another year I think I read somewhere then that is dead for updates also if running XP. I've still go a Toshiba laptop running a Celeron CPU (its a backup computer) and it takes about 2 minutes to fully boot up on XP...of course other things booting up along with the XP slows the boot down. Also have a Lenovo with an I7 quad core CPU running Win 8.1 and it boots up in 15-20 seconds including all the other stuff booting up along with Win 8.1...and this Lenovo just has a standard 1GB hard drive...not an SSD drive....I'm thinking with a SSD drive it would boot up under 10 seconds.

Just on the topic of Windows XP, there are still many internet cafes and private residences, in Thailand, and other developing nations, running Windows XP. I doubt they would be able to afford to upgade their hardware, and software.

What will become of all of these peple and businesses running Windows XP once support has been ceased my Microsoft? I gather the machines will still run, but will they be unstable and extremely vulnerable to virus attack?

[Pib]

Well, I like older Thinkpads like the T-61P = titanium or their 12" models (X-something). Get the maximum RAM and you should have a solid notebook for 10 grand. Source? Ebay USA. The usual stuff like watching videos, doing word processing can be handled by an old CPU with maybe 2.5 Ghz. And I'm a fan of XP - compare the boot times and speed and weep.

Regarding XP, remember Microsoft cuts off support, like for XP automatic updates, on 8 Apr 14. And if using Microsoft Security Essentials for your antivirus software be sure to download it before 8 Apr or you won't be able to for XP anymore (you can for Visa/Win7/Win8 just not XP)....if you already have MSE installed it will continue to work...and MSE virus definition updates will continue for another year I think I read somewhere then that is dead for updates also if running XP. I've still go a Toshiba laptop running a Celeron CPU (its a backup computer) and it takes about 2 minutes to fully boot up on XP...of course other things booting up along with the XP slows the boot down. Also have a Lenovo with an I7 quad core CPU running Win 8.1 and it boots up in 15-20 seconds including all the other stuff booting up along with Win 8.1...and this Lenovo just has a standard 1GB hard drive...not an SSD drive....I'm thinking with a SSD drive it would boot up under 10 seconds.

Just on the topic of Windows XP, there are still many internet cafes and private residences, in Thailand, and other developing nations, running Windows XP. I doubt they would be able to afford to upgade their hardware, and software.

What will become of all of these peple and businesses running Windows XP once support has been ceased my Microsoft? I gather the machines will still run, but will they be unstable and extremely vulnerable to virus attack?

I expect it will remain stable...it's been in service so long hopefully most of the doors for malware to sneak in have been patched long ago....just because update support is terminated doesn't mean the software turns into crap the next day. I expect XP would become slightly more vulnerable to zero-day type malware than Visa/Win7/Win8 but with anti-virus protection I expect that threat would be minimal. Guess, I'll find out as I plan to continue to run XP on my 8 year old Toshiba laptop along with antivirus software.

[Pib]

Here's a short and sweet article on continuing XP use and how long antivirus products plan to continue to support XP. Link