Red Shirt leader Jatuporn announces campaign to keep "Bangkok open"

[ginjag]

You post good. The whole point here being Where do you draw the line ??? bad is bad awful is awful, in your face corruption/family friends wealth. Thailand on it's knees through that, and the biggest problem is they have tech., 2 more years.

We all can look smart and correct by saying only the next election will tell.

The other part of the coalition is one that really gets me, If your main partner is totally awful, why not break off from it, and then an election would have to be held, this should have happened if they were honest with themselves. the other point is why did they team up with Ptp ??? one can only assume MONEY PAID and promises of snouts in the trough.

Your point re other countries is another sideline, as most posters have said IN MY COUTRY bla bla....or in other countries bla bla

Some other countries do overthrow---Maggie Thatcher was overthrown SHE resigned because she got too BIG for her boots but the Tories went on till the next election---why not Yinglucks family resign, and let the PTP run 2 more years, they were voted in not Yingluck.

I don't disagree with you, but it may well be that the majority of the people in the country don't want her to resign and they want the Government to carry on. If she resigned now, do you really think Suthep would pack up and go home?

As i have said before, in my opinion for Suthep and the forces behind the scene this is nothing to do with corruption, vote buying etc this is a winner take all last gasp push to get a 'friendly' Government before the really big big big thing in Thailand happens. If they do not have a friendly Government in position when that happens, there will be a lot of old politicians and army Generals etc heading for the hills (abroad) full speed ahead.

Ok if you say the majority 48% DID vote for PTP. She was elected by who ???? we do not know at this moment that the country wants HER. the other point is to assume Suthep would not back off IF (the whole family bows out of politics) maybe he would or the people would be far less to demonstrate.

Most people are out on the streets because they believe the government was way out of order----corruption near the top of world list----Convict running the government from abroad. In my opinion Suthep is being followed because they have to have a NUT to bring them to the boil. Thai people are taught not to go against authority or elders. This is their way.......or pay them......or an other ??? We want a Fairy godmother to bring forth a super loving Princess as in a fairy tale, to control--someone to respect. If you get my drift.

I think we agree something has to give, we are just differing on how to get there. As i said in a post yesterday i dont have anything against reform, but how in practical terms it would actually be done is very unclear, probably one of the reasons no one has actually given anything other than minor lip service to details of it.

Why should the whole family bow out of politics? because some people don't like them? Should Abhisit's family bow out, should Sutheps family bow etc etc out because some people don't like them. If 48% of people want the PTP to run the country with YS as PM, then who are a smaller % of people saying they cannot have that? If 52% of people or however many dont want it, then vote against PTP.

We can say many things about people wanting this or that, but at the end of the day as far as I am aware the traditional way of assessing what people in a country as a whole want is via an election, and the only way in my opinion out of this situation long term is for the Democrats or another party to win in an election.

The biggest bone of contention is the said family (RECORD) and Thaksin running the job from Dubai, Their stance and how Thailnd is governed.

I do not give a toss about Suthep--or Abhisit so their family interference is not the point.

You tell me why(( on their record and how they are being control freaks,)) should they stay--1 has to go to jail--with pending charges for starters without speaking about the rest and who has been appointed to top duties to stifle any move. It isn't a matter of "if you like them" it is a matter of getting the bad apples out the barrel, you would if they were your apples NOT wait for 2 more years.

The point about the partners in with them coalition, my point was valid and has a good chance of being true---so much for extremely high corruption.

Yes lets have an election--without the red mob being paid and Shins out the way. NO PAYMENT for votes--could be controlled.

[RonCM]

Just my Opinion:

I know this thought is probably from left field and wishful thinking, but this country will end up in a civil war type scenario that will only fester and explode.

Both parties have blood on their hands, wouldn't it be wonderful if a third party from outside the country such as the UN get involved with the elections, hold honest ballots and get the vote from real people? yes it will cost money, but the money will only be taken by unscrupulous people if the normal ballot system were to go ahead.

Also those violations by the Leaders from both sides should disqualify them from any further contest for leadership.

I know just dreaming, but it is a shame to see a beautiful country such as the Kingdom of Thailand devastated in such a way.

[smutcakes]

I think we agree something has to give, we are just differing on how to get there. As i said in a post yesterday i dont have anything against reform, but how in practical terms it would actually be done is very unclear, probably one of the reasons no one has actually given anything other than minor lip service to details of it.

Why should the whole family bow out of politics? because some people don't like them? Should Abhisit's family bow out, should Sutheps family bow etc etc out because some people don't like them. If 48% of people want the PTP to run the country with YS as PM, then who are a smaller % of people saying they cannot have that? If 52% of people or however many dont want it, then vote against PTP.

We can say many things about people wanting this or that, but at the end of the day as far as I am aware the traditional way of assessing what people in a country as a whole want is via an election, and the only way in my opinion out of this situation long term is for the Democrats or another party to win in an election.

The biggest bone of contention is the said family (RECORD) and Thaksin running the job from Dubai, Their stance and how Thailnd is governed.

I do not give a toss about Suthep--or Abhisit so their family interference is not the point.

You tell me why(( on their record and how they are being control freaks,)) should they stay--1 has to go to jail--with pending charges for starters without speaking about the rest and who has been appointed to top duties to stifle any move. It isn't a matter of "if you like them" it is a matter of getting the bad apples out the barrel, you would if they were your apples NOT wait for 2 more years.

The point about the partners in with them coalition, my point was valid and has a good chance of being true---so much for extremely high corruption.

Yes lets have an election--without the red mob being paid and Shins out the way. NO PAYMENT for votes--could be controlled.

Get rid of the Shins fine, no problem but how can you realistically do it? If YS has done something illegal why don't people bring charges against her and the other Shins? If they have not done anything illegal, how can you just bar them from being involved?

Unless they have done something illegal, who has the right and the moral to simply 'kick'them out? Suthep? who? under what pretense.

I was using Abhisit and Suthep as a case in point but it could be anyone, many people don't like other politicians, but you cannot arbitrarily just kick people out of Politics. You argument seems a little bit playground, i dont like him so he cannot be involved kind of thing.(i dont mean that in a condescending way, i just could not think of a way to make my point)

I have no idea how much vote buying affects the results of an election,but according to most people even people in the Dems have conceded it is negligible due to all parties doing it, and people technically can still just vote for who they want.

[Local Drunk]

Interesting isn't it.... let's coin a new phrase. "the Up Country Elite" I'm weary of hearing about the Bkk Elite and how evil metropolitan elitism is. Let's go up country for a while and please explain how and why the Up Country Elite want want to keep this government in power?

I'll start: They don't want the books read.

[mikemac]

This is what happens when one side of the political divide decides not to play by the rules. Thank Suthep for any violence

Quite possibly the most ridiculous and hypocritical comment I have read on TV in the eight years I have reading the forum.

Congratulations, you had some stiff opposition.

The scary thing is, judging by the number of twits who liked it, there are a whole hoard of people like you out there.

Seems like you are in the minority both on this board and in Thailand, i don't suppose its occurred to you, that maybe you are being a twit?

If I am in the minority, then so be it.

At least when your idol Thaksin and his despicable family finish destroying the country it won't be on my conscience. You reap what you sow, smutty.

[ginjag]

I think we agree something has to give, we are just differing on how to get there. As i said in a post yesterday i dont have anything against reform, but how in practical terms it would actually be done is very unclear, probably one of the reasons no one has actually given anything other than minor lip service to details of it.

Why should the whole family bow out of politics? because some people don't like them? Should Abhisit's family bow out, should Sutheps family bow etc etc out because some people don't like them. If 48% of people want the PTP to run the country with YS as PM, then who are a smaller % of people saying they cannot have that? If 52% of people or however many dont want it, then vote against PTP.

We can say many things about people wanting this or that, but at the end of the day as far as I am aware the traditional way of assessing what people in a country as a whole want is via an election, and the only way in my opinion out of this situation long term is for the Democrats or another party to win in an election.

The biggest bone of contention is the said family (RECORD) and Thaksin running the job from Dubai, Their stance and how Thailnd is governed.

I do not give a toss about Suthep--or Abhisit so their family interference is not the point.

You tell me why(( on their record and how they are being control freaks,)) should they stay--1 has to go to jail--with pending charges for starters without speaking about the rest and who has been appointed to top duties to stifle any move. It isn't a matter of "if you like them" it is a matter of getting the bad apples out the barrel, you would if they were your apples NOT wait for 2 more years.

The point about the partners in with them coalition, my point was valid and has a good chance of being true---so much for extremely high corruption.

Yes lets have an election--without the red mob being paid and Shins out the way. NO PAYMENT for votes--could be controlled.

Get rid of the Shins fine, no problem but how can you realistically do it? If YS has done something illegal why don't people bring charges against her and the other Shins? If they have not done anything illegal, how can you just bar them from being involved?

Unless they have done something illegal, who has the right and the moral to simply 'kick'them out? Suthep? who? under what pretense.

I was using Abhisit and Suthep as a case in point but it could be anyone, many people don't like other politicians, but you cannot arbitrarily just kick people out of Politics. You argument seems a little bit playground, i dont like him so he cannot be involved kind of thing.(i dont mean that in a condescending way, i just could not think of a way to make my point)

I have no idea how much vote buying affects the results of an election,but according to most people even people in the Dems have conceded it is negligible due to all parties doing it, and people technically can still just vote for who they want.

If you are in government and are control freaks difficult to bring further charges against the top, if you control it.

If you notice these things come out of the woodwork after the said TERM.

My guess is comfortable persons with decent livings rarely would get into vote buying, similar to UK. they go vote and out, private full stop.

Unfortunately here we have a situation where mostly the rural not so educated can be manipulated by the village head man--notes to spare----example villages declared red villages--dictatorial ??? happens on both sides though but lesser with Blues etc.

They can still vote for who they want-if paid or swayed. how do adults get youngsters to go with them---entice--donkey carrot comes to mind.

If you look up the Shins history doesn't speak good--and really should not be in the positions they hold. you seem to give me the impression that you DO lean to this regime in a NICE way.

"I don't like him" is not it---I don't like how they control--and the in your face bad corruption that should be a sole reason why they should be out not just the name.

Anyway I take in a lot what you say and think the basics are sound, but your argument to keep "AWFUL" in power does not hold down well.

Maggie did the right thing to bow out Yingluck is controlled and cannot. different.

[smutcakes]

I think we agree something has to give, we are just differing on how to get there. As i said in a post yesterday i dont have anything against reform, but how in practical terms it would actually be done is very unclear, probably one of the reasons no one has actually given anything other than minor lip service to details of it.

Why should the whole family bow out of politics? because some people don't like them? Should Abhisit's family bow out, should Sutheps family bow etc etc out because some people don't like them. If 48% of people want the PTP to run the country with YS as PM, then who are a smaller % of people saying they cannot have that? If 52% of people or however many dont want it, then vote against PTP.

We can say many things about people wanting this or that, but at the end of the day as far as I am aware the traditional way of assessing what people in a country as a whole want is via an election, and the only way in my opinion out of this situation long term is for the Democrats or another party to win in an election.

The biggest bone of contention is the said family (RECORD) and Thaksin running the job from Dubai, Their stance and how Thailnd is governed.

I do not give a toss about Suthep--or Abhisit so their family interference is not the point.

You tell me why(( on their record and how they are being control freaks,)) should they stay--1 has to go to jail--with pending charges for starters without speaking about the rest and who has been appointed to top duties to stifle any move. It isn't a matter of "if you like them" it is a matter of getting the bad apples out the barrel, you would if they were your apples NOT wait for 2 more years.

The point about the partners in with them coalition, my point was valid and has a good chance of being true---so much for extremely high corruption.

Yes lets have an election--without the red mob being paid and Shins out the way. NO PAYMENT for votes--could be controlled.

Get rid of the Shins fine, no problem but how can you realistically do it? If YS has done something illegal why don't people bring charges against her and the other Shins? If they have not done anything illegal, how can you just bar them from being involved?

Unless they have done something illegal, who has the right and the moral to simply 'kick'them out? Suthep? who? under what pretense.

I was using Abhisit and Suthep as a case in point but it could be anyone, many people don't like other politicians, but you cannot arbitrarily just kick people out of Politics. You argument seems a little bit playground, i dont like him so he cannot be involved kind of thing.(i dont mean that in a condescending way, i just could not think of a way to make my point)

I have no idea how much vote buying affects the results of an election,but according to most people even people in the Dems have conceded it is negligible due to all parties doing it, and people technically can still just vote for who they want.

If you are in government and are control freaks difficult to bring further charges against the top, if you control it.

If you notice these things come out of the woodwork after the said TERM.

My guess is comfortable persons with decent livings rarely would get into vote buying, similar to UK. they go vote and out, private full stop.

Unfortunately here we have a situation where mostly the rural not so educated can be manipulated by the village head man--notes to spare----example villages declared red villages--dictatorial ??? happens on both sides though but lesser with Blues etc.

They can still vote for who they want-if paid or swayed. how do adults get youngsters to go with them---entice--donkey carrot comes to mind.

If you look up the Shins history doesn't speak good--and really should not be in the positions they hold. you seem to give me the impression that you DO lean to this regime in a NICE way.

"I don't like him" is not it---I don't like how they control--and the in your face bad corruption that should be a sole reason why they should be out not just the name.

Anyway I take in a lot what you say and think the basics are sound, but your argument to keep "AWFUL" in power does not hold down well.

Maggie did the right thing to bow out Yingluck is controlled and cannot. different.

Whether someone is good, awful, appalling is subjective- each persons opinion would differ. The only way i am aware of to get a consensus on a country level is via an election.

Anyway, i think we both have sound points and lets hope however it is worked out, whichever way is as painless as possible.

[bunny11kk]

Really the UDD/Red Shirts should just keep quiet, if they do come out, it will inevitably play into the oppositions hands as no doubt there will be clashes, deaths and inevitably it will lead to a Coup.

At the moment, they unbelievably in the eyes of many around the world sort of have the moral high ground. Without people knowing all the history, on the face of it, it seems that their democratically elected Government is trying to be overthrown by some loony talking about People's Councils.

But the fact is that it's not up to them to make decision. They are employees. When the big boss order and pay enough, they take the order.

[CantSpell]

Bangkok protesters the ones that are well to do. You are protesting to get rid of Yingluck and the Shin family, the corruption. You wear 'free Thailand' shirts. You feel that you are doing the right thing.

Have you ever wonder why you are wealthy? Your parents are civil servants, working in the government in the 60's, 70's, salary is about 200 dollars a month? How can they afford to send you to England, US, Australia, etc. How can they buy and own so much land in Bangkok and the country? Your grandparents were farmers just like the rest of the country.

Generalise much?

Aye, he must have not visited BKK for many years

Might want to try thinking that the students and the office workers there, could also be the offspring of many families in the North and North-East protesting without their parents knowing....

Cos they know better....

[rubl]

Jatuporn is the absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to the Reds, the amount of lies and incitement through lies that he has gotten away with is disgusting,

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Jatuporn-plays-Abhisits-doctored-audio-clip-to-inc-30126504.html

Terrible isn't it - On April 6th it is reported that Jatuporn plays doctored tape of abhisit ordering troops to crackdown on the Reds during the last songkran days........

and on April 10th.............

... we had the anti-government protesters being helped by MiB and some grenade lobbing fun.

Luckily the current bunch of anti-government protesters is on average a wee bit more peaceful

[fab4]

Jatuporn is the absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to the Reds, the amount of lies and incitement through lies that he has gotten away with is disgusting,

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Jatuporn-plays-Abhisits-doctored-audio-clip-to-inc-30126504.html

Terrible isn't it - On April 6th it is reported that Jatuporn plays doctored tape of abhisit ordering troops to crackdown on the Reds during the last songkran days........

and on April 10th.............

... we had the anti-government protesters being helped by MiB and some grenade lobbing fun.

Luckily the current bunch of anti-government protesters is on average a wee bit more peaceful

I'll repeat what I posted earlier in response to whybothers version of April 10th

No, what happened was suthep, head of CRES and his boss abhisit signed off on orders to send in armed troops to crack down on the UDD. The first shots fired were in the early afternoon and the first person to be shot dead was a UDD supporter. Later in the evening the so called "men in black" (or maybe a rival army faction opposed to Col.Romklao, the jury's still out on that theory) threw a couple of grenades and engaged in gun battles with the army, snipers (or sharpshooters as the army would prefer) adding to the mayhem. Outcome 25 dead, 5 army, 1 Journalist, 19 civilians.

[rubl]

The 'democratically' elected government was being undemocratic is trying to push through an "blanket amnesty bill'. That's when the protests really started. By now the government has stepped down, as such it's interesting that some still talk about 'overthrowing' it.

You may disagree with the content of the amnesty bill, as did I, but the way it was passed through the 2nd and 3rd reading was in line with the constitution and therefore democratic. The fact that the dems walked out and boycotted the vote after 19 hours of debate is their problem - it does not make the passing of the bill to the Senate any less democratic.

The protesters are not trying to overthrow a government they are trying to overthrow the democratic right of every eligible Thai to vote in an election. There is no justification for that behaviour, none.

Sorry chum, but you can't have your cake and eat it. Since the government was illegally carrying out orders from an unelected wanted criminal then the government breaking a de facto reconciliation, makes its actions unacceptable. One might say that the State was naive in letting the clone government operate as such but in the event they were given enough rope to hang themselves with. Quite frankly if we are referencing the constitution then the PTP should be banned for illegal and unconstitutional activities but that wasn't quite what you had in mind.

"illegally carrying out orders from an unelected wanted criminal then the government breaking a de facto reconciliation, makes its actions unacceptable."

Please explain, I really haven't got a clue what you are on about

If I may be so bold as to offer a possible explanation?

The unelected wanted criminal is probably a reference to the in self-exile living ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra who regularly states to 'help' his sister with free and possibly unwanted advise. As some have suggested that's perfectly normal and no-one has to listen to him anyway.

I also regularly call my sister or mail her

[rubl]

Jatuporn is the absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to the Reds, the amount of lies and incitement through lies that he has gotten away with is disgusting,

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Jatuporn-plays-Abhisits-doctored-audio-clip-to-inc-30126504.html

Terrible isn't it - On April 6th it is reported that Jatuporn plays doctored tape of abhisit ordering troops to crackdown on the Reds during the last songkran days........

and on April 10th.............

... we had the anti-government protesters being helped by MiB and some grenade lobbing fun.

Luckily the current bunch of anti-government protesters is on average a wee bit more peaceful

I'll repeat what I posted earlier in response to whybothers version of April 10th

No, what happened was suthep, head of CRES and his boss abhisit signed off on orders to send in armed troops to crack down on the UDD. The first shots fired were in the early afternoon and the first person to be shot dead was a UDD supporter. Later in the evening the so called "men in black" (or maybe a rival army faction opposed to Col.Romklao, the jury's still out on that theory) threw a couple of grenades and engaged in gun battles with the army, snipers (or sharpshooters as the army would prefer) adding to the mayhem. Outcome 25 dead, 5 army, 1 Journalist, 19 civilians.

What happened was that the UDD leaders and their 'supporters' already started violence against all and any non-red-shirts with the first grenades dropping end of February 2010.

Outcome 92 deaths by late May 2010. With regards to the other fine people who want to keep Bangkok open. Maybe by burned down some more ?

[fab4]

You may disagree with the content of the amnesty bill, as did I, but the way it was passed through the 2nd and 3rd reading was in line with the constitution and therefore democratic. The fact that the dems walked out and boycotted the vote after 19 hours of debate is their problem - it does not make the passing of the bill to the Senate any less democratic.

The protesters are not trying to overthrow a government they are trying to overthrow the democratic right of every eligible Thai to vote in an election. There is no justification for that behaviour, none.

Sorry chum, but you can't have your cake and eat it. Since the government was illegally carrying out orders from an unelected wanted criminal then the government breaking a de facto reconciliation, makes its actions unacceptable. One might say that the State was naive in letting the clone government operate as such but in the event they were given enough rope to hang themselves with. Quite frankly if we are referencing the constitution then the PTP should be banned for illegal and unconstitutional activities but that wasn't quite what you had in mind.

"illegally carrying out orders from an unelected wanted criminal then the government breaking a de facto reconciliation, makes its actions unacceptable."

Please explain, I really haven't got a clue what you are on about

If I may be so bold as to offer a possible explanation?

The unelected wanted criminal is probably a reference to the in self-exile living ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra who regularly states to 'help' his sister with free and possibly unwanted advise. As some have suggested that's perfectly normal and no-one has to listen to him anyway.

I also regularly call my sister or mail her

So it's not illegal then? but I'm still not sure what "breaking a de facto reconciliation" is?

[rubl]

Sorry chum, but you can't have your cake and eat it. Since the government was illegally carrying out orders from an unelected wanted criminal then the government breaking a de facto reconciliation, makes its actions unacceptable. One might say that the State was naive in letting the clone government operate as such but in the event they were given enough rope to hang themselves with. Quite frankly if we are referencing the constitution then the PTP should be banned for illegal and unconstitutional activities but that wasn't quite what you had in mind.

"illegally carrying out orders from an unelected wanted criminal then the government breaking a de facto reconciliation, makes its actions unacceptable."

Please explain, I really haven't got a clue what you are on about

If I may be so bold as to offer a possible explanation?

The unelected wanted criminal is probably a reference to the in self-exile living ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra who regularly states to 'help' his sister with free and possibly unwanted advise. As some have suggested that's perfectly normal and no-one has to listen to him anyway.

I also regularly call my sister or mail her

So it's not illegal then? but I'm still not sure what "breaking a de facto reconciliation" is?

Offering 'free and unwanted advise' is not illegal. You may have noticed I provide such regularly.

mind you with a criminal fugitive skyping-in into cabinet meetings to order his cabinet how to do with his country and government could be called somewhat undemocratic and possibly illegal. In some countries that is, including the one I came from. Not sure about your universe though.

As for 'breaking a defacto reconciliation', ask SW. Maybe he meant the '"do as I say, not as I do" mentality shown by the care-taking government and the care-taking PM and her care-taking Ministers, Deputies and other nice people.

[khunsiam]

This month is the month of 'make or break'. Please wait for a signal from us.

I'm gonna stock up on popcorn, because it will get get exciting this month .

What a sad post!! "Our" country might be on the brink of a civil war, and to you it is entertaiment!!

Shame on you!!

Our country? You were born here? I am seriously missing something here.

Indeed, you're missing your glasses.

[tilac2]

This is what happens when one side of the political divide decides not to play by the rules. Thank Suthep for any violence

Quite possibly the most ridiculous and hypocritical comment I have read on TV in the eight years I have reading the forum.

Congratulations, you had some stiff opposition.

The scary thing is, judging by the number of twits who liked it, there are a whole hoard of people like you out there.

Hello there. I am one of the "twits" who liked it.

[tilac2]

In case you don't realise it, you are being seriously offensive:

..."rural not so educated can be manipulated by the village head man" ..."dictatorial"... "if paid or swayed"... "donkey carrot".

The people you refer to, I assume, are people in the N and NE, and in my opinion they are just as clever as people in Bangkok, and they understand democracy and they understand about voting and about one person one vote, and they vote for what they believe in, not because they are paid. Please stop insulting rural Thai people. The "donkey carrot" phrase was particularly offensive.

I think we agree something has to give, we are just differing on how to get there. As i said in a post yesterday i dont have anything against reform, but how in practical terms it would actually be done is very unclear, probably one of the reasons no one has actually given anything other than minor lip service to details of it.

Why should the whole family bow out of politics? because some people don't like them? Should Abhisit's family bow out, should Sutheps family bow etc etc out because some people don't like them. If 48% of people want the PTP to run the country with YS as PM, then who are a smaller % of people saying they cannot have that? If 52% of people or however many dont want it, then vote against PTP.

We can say many things about people wanting this or that, but at the end of the day as far as I am aware the traditional way of assessing what people in a country as a whole want is via an election, and the only way in my opinion out of this situation long term is for the Democrats or another party to win in an election.

The biggest bone of contention is the said family (RECORD) and Thaksin running the job from Dubai, Their stance and how Thailnd is governed.

I do not give a toss about Suthep--or Abhisit so their family interference is not the point.

You tell me why(( on their record and how they are being control freaks,)) should they stay--1 has to go to jail--with pending charges for starters without speaking about the rest and who has been appointed to top duties to stifle any move. It isn't a matter of "if you like them" it is a matter of getting the bad apples out the barrel, you would if they were your apples NOT wait for 2 more years.

The point about the partners in with them coalition, my point was valid and has a good chance of being true---so much for extremely high corruption.

Yes lets have an election--without the red mob being paid and Shins out the way. NO PAYMENT for votes--could be controlled.

Get rid of the Shins fine, no problem but how can you realistically do it? If YS has done something illegal why don't people bring charges against her and the other Shins? If they have not done anything illegal, how can you just bar them from being involved?

Unless they have done something illegal, who has the right and the moral to simply 'kick'them out? Suthep? who? under what pretense.

I was using Abhisit and Suthep as a case in point but it could be anyone, many people don't like other politicians, but you cannot arbitrarily just kick people out of Politics. You argument seems a little bit playground, i dont like him so he cannot be involved kind of thing.(i dont mean that in a condescending way, i just could not think of a way to make my point)

I have no idea how much vote buying affects the results of an election,but according to most people even people in the Dems have conceded it is negligible due to all parties doing it, and people technically can still just vote for who they want.

If you are in government and are control freaks difficult to bring further charges against the top, if you control it.

If you notice these things come out of the woodwork after the said TERM.

My guess is comfortable persons with decent livings rarely would get into vote buying, similar to UK. they go vote and out, private full stop.

Unfortunately here we have a situation where mostly the rural not so educated can be manipulated by the village head man--notes to spare----example villages declared red villages--dictatorial ??? happens on both sides though but lesser with Blues etc.

They can still vote for who they want-if paid or swayed. how do adults get youngsters to go with them---entice--donkey carrot comes to mind.

If you look up the Shins history doesn't speak good--and really should not be in the positions they hold. you seem to give me the impression that you DO lean to this regime in a NICE way.

"I don't like him" is not it---I don't like how they control--and the in your face bad corruption that should be a sole reason why they should be out not just the name.

Anyway I take in a lot what you say and think the basics are sound, but your argument to keep "AWFUL" in power does not hold down well.

Maggie did the right thing to bow out Yingluck is controlled and cannot. different.

[JRSoul]

That rhetorical speech may well cost him his real life, or much of it.

Really. Well let's wait until the trial shall we.

I have been waiting for the trial for some time. As you may know, many of the indicted defendants were given MP positions as a reward for their criminal actions (BTW in breach of electoral law) allowing that trial to be delayed almost indefinitely, or at least until an amnesty bill was passed. Should there not be an elected government for 6 months or so, the court may well proceed - icing on the cake.

Wrong. There is no electoral law that stops people who are awaiting trial from becoming MP's, only if convicted. Otherwise the democrat MP who is on bail awaiting trial for premeditated murder for shooting a PTP official dead in front of witnesses and cctv would not be able to remain a sitting MP. I presume he has resigned like the others - abhisit had refused to ask him to stand down when he was charged with murder. Birds of a feather............

There is electoral law which states that party list candidates should be fit and proper persons, and it was cited as one of the reasons (the other being Thaksin's involvement) the CC was considering disbanding PTP after the last election. And there is a vast difference from asking a sitting MP to resign to appointing indicted criminals which many would consider a perverting the course of justice by granting parliamentary amnesty.

[JRSoul]

Get rid of the Shins fine, no problem but how can you realistically do it? If YS has done something illegal why don't people bring charges against her and the other Shins? If they have not done anything illegal, how can you just bar them from being involved?

Unless they have done something illegal, who has the right and the moral to simply 'kick'them out? Suthep? who? under what pretense.

I was using Abhisit and Suthep as a case in point but it could be anyone, many people don't like other politicians, but you cannot arbitrarily just kick people out of Politics. You argument seems a little bit playground, i dont like him so he cannot be involved kind of thing.(i dont mean that in a condescending way, i just could not think of a way to make my point)

I have no idea how much vote buying affects the results of an election,but according to most people even people in the Dems have conceded it is negligible due to all parties doing it, and people technically can still just vote for who they want.

Getting rid of Yingluk and others of the clan is easy. Once out of government you can start pressing the charges Tarit refuses to pursue. Yingluk has at least perjury and conflict of interest corruption waiting her, Oaf can explain why nearly a billion baht of money stolen by his father passed through his accounts, and I'm sure a close examination will turn up many cases for the others now being swept under the carpet of power.

[MaiChai]

Jatuporn has done financially well since 2010. One could wonder how he has enriched himself?

[gerry1011]

This is what happens when one side of the political divide decides not to play by the rules. Thank Suthep for any violence

Quite possibly the most ridiculous and hypocritical comment I have read on TV in the eight years I have reading the forum.

Congratulations, you had some stiff opposition.

The scary thing is, judging by the number of twits who liked it, there are a whole hoard of people like you out there.

Hello there. I am one of the "twits" who liked it.

Not sure I was one of the "twits", but if not please count me in now

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ginjag]

In case you don't realise it, you are being seriously offensive:

..."rural not so educated can be manipulated by the village head man" ..."dictatorial"... "if paid or swayed"... "donkey carrot".

The people you refer to, I assume, are people in the N and NE, and in my opinion they are just as clever as people in Bangkok, and they understand democracy and they understand about voting and about one person one vote, and they vote for what they believe in, not because they are paid. Please stop insulting rural Thai people. The "donkey carrot" phrase was particularly offensive.

The biggest bone of contention is the said family (RECORD) and Thaksin running the job from Dubai, Their stance and how Thailnd is governed.

I do not give a toss about Suthep--or Abhisit so their family interference is not the point.

You tell me why(( on their record and how they are being control freaks,)) should they stay--1 has to go to jail--with pending charges for starters without speaking about the rest and who has been appointed to top duties to stifle any move. It isn't a matter of "if you like them" it is a matter of getting the bad apples out the barrel, you would if they were your apples NOT wait for 2 more years.

The point about the partners in with them coalition, my point was valid and has a good chance of being true---so much for extremely high corruption.

Yes lets have an election--without the red mob being paid and Shins out the way. NO PAYMENT for votes--could be controlled.

Get rid of the Shins fine, no problem but how can you realistically do it? If YS has done something illegal why don't people bring charges against her and the other Shins? If they have not done anything illegal, how can you just bar them from being involved?

Unless they have done something illegal, who has the right and the moral to simply 'kick'them out? Suthep? who? under what pretense.

I was using Abhisit and Suthep as a case in point but it could be anyone, many people don't like other politicians, but you cannot arbitrarily just kick people out of Politics. You argument seems a little bit playground, i dont like him so he cannot be involved kind of thing.(i dont mean that in a condescending way, i just could not think of a way to make my point)

I have no idea how much vote buying affects the results of an election,but according to most people even people in the Dems have conceded it is negligible due to all parties doing it, and people technically can still just vote for who they want.

If you are in government and are control freaks difficult to bring further charges against the top, if you control it.

If you notice these things come out of the woodwork after the said TERM.

My guess is comfortable persons with decent livings rarely would get into vote buying, similar to UK. they go vote and out, private full stop.

Unfortunately here we have a situation where mostly the rural not so educated can be manipulated by the village head man--notes to spare----example villages declared red villages--dictatorial ??? happens on both sides though but lesser with Blues etc.

They can still vote for who they want-if paid or swayed. how do adults get youngsters to go with them---entice--donkey carrot comes to mind.

If you look up the Shins history doesn't speak good--and really should not be in the positions they hold. you seem to give me the impression that you DO lean to this regime in a NICE way.

"I don't like him" is not it---I don't like how they control--and the in your face bad corruption that should be a sole reason why they should be out not just the name.

Anyway I take in a lot what you say and think the basics are sound, but your argument to keep "AWFUL" in power does not hold down well.

Maggie did the right thing to bow out Yingluck is controlled and cannot. different.

You know full well who I am referring to, and if the truth hurts so be it.

I did not say everyone.

Offensive---no way how do you think majority of red shirts afforded to go to BKK during the siege and burning last time. hence the donkey -carrot remark.

Did you go to drama school at some time ???? anyone that gets paid by a LEADER of MOB rule is guilty, whether they be a farmer, head village man, how many young people that are working say in BIG C --or 7-11---or department stores accept money and skip work to go to BKK ????

Mainly by the look of it it is the rural rice farmer--the little family man from a village-he can get the time to go get pocket money. Most of these humble people do not buy newspapers, tune in to local political programs they are NOT aware of the scene in general they live day to day scraping up rice to feed their families.

Most of them never went to high school. a big percentage cannot read.

[metisdead]

A post bringing the Royal Princess into the discussion has been removed:

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban.

[Ricardo]

Sometimes reading helps I never said that he only did sell his company but no other case against him was filed except the land scandal. Somehow most of the people have an obsession with Thaksin and to much attention is given to him. If the public would ignore him news paper stop writing in relative short time he would be out of the light. All government approaches to get him from Dubai or wherever he goes we're half hearted. During the democrats ruling also they did not do much. Guess why....

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Because the fugitive wasn't available to hear the charges read out in court, in all the other cases, perhaps ?

I do agree that this should have been done much sooner, while he was still back home in 2008, but for some reason his brother-in-law (then-PM Somchai) didn't prioritise the cases.

Thai justice does move exceedingly slowly, witness the pace of the cases concerning events in 2008, 2009, 2010, against local-leaders of both red/yellow persuasions.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Ricardo

[tezzainoz]

From reading all these posts, I have come to the sad realization that despite the dreadful events of the past few months, the brazen assaults on democracy and rule of law, the majority of posters here at ThaiVisa have learned nothing. I find it strange that so many of us come from a continent that was devastated by the evils of fascism years ago, yet we do not shudder when we see it reemerging among the so-called "educated" classes of our new adopted home. A reasonable person would be excused for expecting people who come from developed nations, complete with their sterling (relatively) educational systems, to support the democratization of a developing country. It is sad that so many here fail to understand not only the situation in Thailand, but the basic concept of democracy. Democrats don't cheer for coups. Real people of discernment do not buy into disproved myths that one party's vote buying can sway an election in a country of over 60 million people.

For all our education and heritage, the posters here do not seem any wiser than the mobs in the street or the rural poor they so despise.

Oh god, please spare us that holier then thou attitude.

People against the Shinawatras don't despise the rural poor, we despise the corrupt people who pretend to help the rural poor.

Please Note:

Yinglucks Cabinet and Pheu - Thai members of parliment announces they they will not accept the rulings of the Constitutional Court

Under Democratic Principles

When the government of any country fails to obey the rules of law, or the countries constitution

No Government can claim to be a legitimate democratic Government

For those that think that any government that comes to office through an election is a legitimate Democratic Government, then sorry you have no idea what a

TRUE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT IS

[metisdead]

A post bringing the Royal Princess into the discussion has been removed:

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban.

As well as rule 2 be aware of this notice as well:

Many people have been losing their posting rights or receiving suspensions because they continue to make comments on the Monarchy, and members of the Thai Royal Family in a political context. This is in violation of Thai law which explicitly states that The Monarchy is above politics.

- Do not make any accusations about any individual's or groups' loyalty toward The Monarchy.

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- Do not discuss succession or speculate on the future of The Monarchy.

This includes hinting at, joking about, or using innuendo about the above, or referring people to outside information containing such things.

While we do not wish to needlessly restrict discussion of current events in Thailand, it's necessary that we put the above restrictions in place to ensure that local laws and customs are honoured, and the forum remains a viable news source for Thailand's expat community.

You may see some news articles referring to such things, but remember that they have expensive legal teams that vet the quotations first, and you/we don't.

Thank you for your co-operation and understanding.

The moderating team.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/479383-no-discussion-of-the-monarchy-in-political-context/

[SheungWan]

Many comments in this thread is (as with the Thai people) ruled "by the heart". There are a lot of statemantst backed up with facts. "Thaksin takes corruption to a new level" e t c. To my knowledge - working as Communication & PR Director and Thailand Branch Manager - almost every aspect of doing business here in Thailand involves corruption. To my knowledge the corruption of Thaksin Clan was not (is not) that serious. When Shinawat ruled bussiness boomed, Thailand did not have to borrow money and the rural areas got SOMETHING (the usyally gets nothing). At my companys boardroom hung a photo from my company president shaking hands with Thaksin. Many bussiness leaders liked and admired him. What happened then? Thaksin confronted the "feudal" elite (as well as the royal family). This caused the birth of the "Yellow Shirts" and at this time the control of the army was still in the hands of the nobility and thus the coup witch backfired (due to the redshirts and intervention by the KIng). During the time the Yellows ruled (with Suthep as vice PM) - after the miltary stepped down- I recall they took a HUGE loan from Germany. This money just dissappeared (into the pockets of yellowshirt leaders and their masters i presume). Here it would really be reason to investigate. The masters behind the scene are playing masterfully the Thais love for the King and traditional values. I have been reading this thread and wonders about "tingtongteesood"; what is your background? There are hardly any facts and much feelings so I think you are thai...

To all - wether Thai or Farlang: Thailand IS NOW A DEMOCRACY! It is in it`s birthstruggle and very, very fragile. I would like to remind you all what happened in neighbouring countries when the poor farmers took to arms (Mao, Pol Phot). The red shirts share the feeling of "nothing to loose" and if not lissened to will be shure to act (violently if need be). The buing of votes from both sides was not as influent as som of you believes and there is a general disregard from the Yellows to acknowledge any genuin support for Thaksin policy. My belief is that the poor have the feeling that Thaksin is much moore preferrable than their "feudal nobility".

The question now is where the loaylty of the army lies. I sincerely hopes they will support this fragile democracy and forever turn their back on their feudal history. Some statements from the army supports this, I´m glad to say. If the army do not intervene ther will be a "bloodbath".

Finally I will be happy to have this commented, supported, argued with FACTS.

Thailand is not a democracy when the government takes directions from an overseas wanted criminal and lies that it is doing do.

And Thailand is not a democracy when that person has abused his position of responsibility (PM) in the past and continues to plot to do so.

As for feudal past, Thaksin's alliance with the Northern landowners and absence of land reform anywhere in the government policies, which focus primarily on the interests of the criminal himself and what we have here is the usual Thaksin cheerleader mystification of a brutal project to capture to seize state power whatever their protestations and declarations of love. Pass the sick bag Alice, as one might say.

[outsider]

"We will fight under peaceful principles"... whatever the heck that means. In any case, this is bad news any way you look at it.