rwhoov Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 This is what happens when one side of the political divide decides not to play by the rules. Thank Suthep for any violence The rules that were broken were by Yingkuck's administration. That's what caused this mess Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app If the present administration broke any "rules" then the proper procedure would be for the proper channels to respond with subpoenas, arrests, etc. One does not use mob intervention on this pretext. Suthep wants to be crowned by a mob thinking anything is okay that would bring his cronies into power. As far as I can tell, his "political reforms" consist primarily of voter suppression; he knows he can't win an election any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post lovetotravel Posted January 2, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 2, 2014 This is what happens when one side of the political divide decides not to play by the rules. Thank Suthep for any violence The rules that were broken were by Yingkuck's administration. That's what caused this mess Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app If the present administration broke any "rules" then the proper procedure would be for the proper channels to respond with subpoenas, arrests, etc. One does not use mob intervention on this pretext. Suthep wants to be crowned by a mob thinking anything is okay that would bring his cronies into power. As far as I can tell, his "political reforms" consist primarily of voter suppression; he knows he can't win an election any other way. The proper channels did respond with subpoenas, rulings, etc. But the government ignored them and even tried to get rid of these institutions so they could pass laws to ensure Thaksin's ammesty. Thus, the protests. As mentioned above, this isn't the first time it's happened with Thaksin's party. The protesters are there not to get Suthep elected but to get the Shin clan out. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fab4 Posted January 2, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) ... on the face of it, it seems that their democratically elected Government is trying to be overthrown by some loony talking about People's Councils. That's exactly what it is The 'democratically' elected government was being undemocratic is trying to push through an "blanket amnesty bill'. That's when the protests really started. By now the government has stepped down, as such it's interesting that some still talk about 'overthrowing' it. You may disagree with the content of the amnesty bill, as did I, but the way it was passed through the 2nd and 3rd reading was in line with the constitution and therefore democratic. The fact that the dems walked out and boycotted the vote after 19 hours of debate is their problem - it does not make the passing of the bill to the Senate any less democratic. The protesters are not trying to overthrow a government they are trying to overthrow the democratic right of every eligible Thai to vote in an election. There is no justification for that behaviour, none. Edited January 2, 2014 by fab4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 You may disagree with the content of the amnesty bill, as did I, but the way it was passed through the 2nd and 3rd reading was in line with the constitution and therefore democratic. The fact that the dems walked out and boycotted the vote after 19 hours of debate is their problem - it does not make the passing of the bill to the Senate any less democratic. The protesters are not trying to overthrow a government they are trying to overthrow the democratic right of every eligible Thai to vote in an election. There is no justification for that behaviour, none. It wasn't passed entirely in line with the constitution, given there were some MPs voting for others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrum Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 This is going to be quite interesting. I wonder why PTP don't just hold a peaceful rally in their own area to show support for the government. If they care so much for YS and TS. Owing their life to one family. Funny. But I don't think many supporters of the Reds will come out. I have a feeling the result of Corruption Case will be announced just before the 13th and all the government will be nullified. And there won't be any demonstration. Maybe wishful thinking. That scenario has played out before. The airport seizure ended with dissolution. The siege at goverment house was over when Samak was sacked. It seems just before the brink is reached with the anti-Thaksin side, the authorities pass down a timely judgement. Unfortunately, when the redshirts reach their brink, it's the army who end the occupation. The seige at government house finished when the protesters moved to the airport. They went to the airport to stop Somchai from landing there. The reason they were blockading government house was to stop the PPP government from passing some pro-Thaksin laws. They stopped the airport protest 2 days after the PPP being dissolved because they knew that PPP couldn't pass the law that they wanted. PTP (ex-PPP MPs that weren't banned) were acting government at that stage. I'll accept your account of the events. I'll stand by my theory that there appears to be a pressure release from the courts whenever the anti-Thaksin side get too close to the point of no return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FangFerang Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) This month is the month of 'make or break'. Please wait for a signal from us. I'm gonna stock up on popcorn, because it will get get exciting this month . What a sad post!! "Our" country might be on the brink of a civil war, and to you it is entertaiment!! Shame on you!! This why Thais often do not respect farang. Too many think this is a television show, and eat popcorn and dismiss the loss of a single human life as another line in a television show with cheap sponsors... It is not. Thais are a kind and beautiful people struggling to become their own way of betterment, not some imitation of others who have already failed on theior own 'merits'.. And some say Thais have faults we cannot say our own homelands do not possess. So, there is no corruption in the US, or Great Britain, or Holland, or Germany, or anywhere? There are no corrupt leaders being confronted by equally corrupt usurpers? It is a lie to pretend to superiority when we, ourselves, live here. Thais! Do not think we are all unfeeling pigs! Do not think we all laugh at you, because polite visitors do not eat the food of their hosts and then find their struggles so unimportant as to nibble popcorn while brother kills brother. It is not true. It makes many of us feel ashamed of our fellow countrymen's behavior... And we should. Thais! You hear the words of vagabonds. You hear the arrogance of failed people hiding in the easy prosperity of your wonderful country. You hear the stupid bored internet politics of people who do not love any land, but ridicule your Thailand just because...they can. Shame on all of them. They cannot lose face because they never had face to begin with. They are all chin and no eyes. They are all tongue and no heart. They are all nose and no taste. They are nothing. Please ignore them. Edited January 2, 2014 by FangFerang 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCFC Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I tried to read Jatuporn announcement "between the lines". I'm not shure I'm right, but I have the feeling that: 1: The red want a coup as well. They think that they will still win the elections even after reforms. 2: They expect that a lot of southern demonstrators will go back home if it becomes too dangerous to be in BKK. Agreed. The reds are fighting for a cause. The anti-gov crew are fighting for pocket money. I suspect Suthep's troops to turn tail and run when the red army arrives at the gates of Bangkok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny11kk Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 OMG bring out the Tanks now If there are tanks out, why would you be so jolly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I tried to read Jatuporn announcement "between the lines". I'm not shure I'm right, but I have the feeling that: 1: The red want a coup as well. They think that they will still win the elections even after reforms. 2: They expect that a lot of southern demonstrators will go back home if it becomes too dangerous to be in BKK. Agreed. The reds are fighting for a cause. The anti-gov crew are fighting for pocket money. I suspect Suthep's troops to turn tail and run when the red army arrives at the gates of Bangkok The red shirts are fighting for Thaksin's pocket money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny11kk Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I tried to read Jatuporn announcement "between the lines". I'm not shure I'm right, but I have the feeling that: 1: The red want a coup as well. They think that they will still win the elections even after reforms. 2: They expect that a lot of southern demonstrators will go back home if it becomes too dangerous to be in BKK. Agreed. The reds are fighting for a cause. The anti-gov crew are fighting for pocket money. I suspect Suthep's troops to turn tail and run when the red army arrives at the gates of Bangkok Wow, you know everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazR Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) From reading all these posts, I have come to the sad realization that despite the dreadful events of the past few months, the brazen assaults on democracy and rule of law, the majority of posters here at ThaiVisa have learned nothing. I find it strange that so many of us come from a continent that was devastated by the evils of fascism years ago, yet we do not shudder when we see it reemerging among the so-called "educated" classes of our new adopted home. A reasonable person would be excused for expecting people who come from developed nations, complete with their sterling (relatively) educational systems, to support the democratization of a developing country. It is sad that so many here fail to understand not only the situation in Thailand, but the basic concept of democracy. Democrats don't cheer for coups. Real people of discernment do not buy into disproved myths that one party's vote buying can sway an election in a country of over 60 million people. For all our education and heritage, the posters here do not seem any wiser than the mobs in the street or the rural poor they so despise. While I share your your distain of ill-informed and ill-judged posts which are a waste of space, nevertheless your own comments fail to acknowledge the fact that Thailand is only semi-democratic and therefore a parliamentary dictatorship is not only possible today, it exists today, and it is a barrier to the evolution of the nation and therefore it is a threat to the future of Thailand every bit as potent as that which the old guard have maintained (in more than any other way) by imposing out-dated Confucian-style 'brainwash' education on the masses. However, the Confucian system has historically not been able to always prevent revolution, as it has been seen as the ultimate logical democratic response to despotism. This is why this may be the beginning of a real revolution, and Thailand has never had a real revolution so history has few specific lessons for us here except the usual dusty old cliches one always hears. What the anti-government protesters want is a 'new deal' for everyone. Edited January 2, 2014 by GazR 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackie Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) I tried to read Jatuporn announcement "between the lines". I'm not shure I'm right, but I have the feeling that: 1: The red want a coup as well. They think that they will still win the elections even after reforms. 2: They expect that a lot of southern demonstrators will go back home if it becomes too dangerous to be in BKK. Agreed. The reds are fighting for a cause. The anti-gov crew are fighting for pocket money. I suspect Suthep's troops to turn tail and run when the red army arrives at the gates of Bangkok You've got to be joking. Since when the man from Dubai has any cause apart from filling up his own pockets and robbing the country blind in the process. You do realize that those poor souls are expandable for him. They are just pawns. He has already sold them out but they just don't know that yet. The red army is more like the Khmer army in disguise. Edited January 2, 2014 by Mackie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljordan Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Likely this will end up bad for most Thais because likely this will end with a civil wars of sorts. How do you compramise with a group that says the following. If we win the election, we are good with democracy. If we lose, we do not agree and we want a coup. This is not unique to Thailand is it. This is what happens when two sides are so so far apart that no compramise can be found. The move toward real democracy almost never is done without unrest and or worse. India--massive unrest. America-war against the King of England 1776 into 1812 and then between the North and South in 1860 Germany-Hitler Japan---Nukes ended it South Africa---decades of unrest and fighting England started in 1381 and fought on and off until the end of the 1800s to give power to the people. France--the french revolution. Oh yeah--and it does not always get democracy as seen in Russia. Some working agreement can be found but it requires good will and desire for an agreement. So far Thailand does not have this under the groups in the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny11kk Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 This month is the month of 'make or break'. Please wait for a signal from us. I'm gonna stock up on popcorn, because it will get get exciting this month . What a sad post!! "Our" country might be on the brink of a civil war, and to you it is entertaiment!! Shame on you!! This why Thais often do not respect farang. Too many think this is a television show, and eat popcorn and dismiss the loss of a single human life as another line in a television show with cheap sponsors... It is not. Thais are a kind and beautiful people struggling to become their own way of betterment, not some imitation of others who have already failed on theior own 'merits'.. And some say Thais have faults we cannot say our own homelands do not possess. So, there is no corruption in the US, or Great Britain, or Holland, or Germany, or anywhere? There are no corrupt leaders being confronted by equally corrupt usurpers? It is a lie to pretend to superiority when we, ourselves, live here. Thais! Do not think we are all unfeeling pigs! Do not think we all laugh at you, because polite visitors do not eat the food of their hosts and then find their struggles so unimportant as to nibble popcorn while brother kills brother. It is not true. It makes many of us feel ashamed of our fellow countrymen's behavior... And we should. Thais! You hear the words of vagabonds. You hear the arrogance of failed people hiding in the easy prosperity of your wonderful country. You hear the stupid bored internet politics of people who do not love any land, but ridicule your Thailand just because...they can. Shame on all of them. They cannot lose face because they never had face to begin with. They are all chin and no eyes. They are all tongue and no heart. They are all nose and no taste. They are nothing. Please ignore them. I thanks you sincerely from my heart! People dying is not an entertainment in any sense! After all we are all human. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazR Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Hegelian's Philosophy. Thesis = Anti-Thaksin that want to take away/reduce non-Bangkokians' right Anti-synthesis = Anti-coup/so-called "pro-democracy" Soon we will hear an antithesis. I don't know exactly what it is, but it could be "Absolute monarchy". Both sides are playing their parts in this game. It makes sense to me, as both sides are claiming to be loyal to the monarchy. So when the pain of separation is no longer bearable, they will be willing to give up their voting rights. In my estimation, both sides serve the same master. IMO you think too much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIHUAHUA Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 This month is the month of 'make or break'. Please wait for a signal from us. I'm gonna stock up on popcorn, because it will get get exciting this month . What a sad post!! "Our" country might be on the brink of a civil war, and to you it is entertaiment!! Shame on you!! Your country? Are you Thai? If so then what should we do as expats without any rights to say s&^t. I don't eat popcorn but I like what is happening to the Baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCFC Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I tried to read Jatuporn announcement "between the lines". I'm not shure I'm right, but I have the feeling that: 1: The red want a coup as well. They think that they will still win the elections even after reforms. 2: They expect that a lot of southern demonstrators will go back home if it becomes too dangerous to be in BKK. Agreed. The reds are fighting for a cause. The anti-gov crew are fighting for pocket money. I suspect Suthep's troops to turn tail and run when the red army arrives at the gates of Bangkok You've got to be joking. Since when the man from Dubai has any cause apart from filling up his own pockets and robbing the country blind in the process. You do realize that those poor souls are expandable for him. They are just pawns. He has already sold them out but they just don't know that yet. The red army is more like the Khmer army in disguise. The Red's from he countryside see their basic human rights disappearing under Suthep's People's Council, whether you think it will happen or not is beside the point. They will fight not to be disenfranchised. And people fighting for causes usually triumph over those fighting for a few bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsiam Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 This is what happens when one side of the political divide decides not to play by the rules. Thank Suthep for any violence The rules that were broken were by Yingkuck's administration. That's what caused this mess Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app If the present administration broke any "rules" then the proper procedure would be for the proper channels to respond with subpoenas, arrests, etc. One does not use mob intervention on this pretext. Suthep wants to be crowned by a mob thinking anything is okay that would bring his cronies into power. As far as I can tell, his "political reforms" consist primarily of voter suppression; he knows he can't win an election any other way. The proper channels did respond with subpoenas, rulings, etc. But the government ignored them and even tried to get rid of these institutions so they could pass laws to ensure Thaksin's ammesty. Thus, the protests. As mentioned above, this isn't the first time it's happened with Thaksin's party. The protesters are there not to get Suthep elected but to get the Shin clan out. "The protesters are there not to get Suthep elected but to get the Shin clan out". Right, but Suthep is there to get the (ex-)PAD affiliates in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab4 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 You may disagree with the content of the amnesty bill, as did I, but the way it was passed through the 2nd and 3rd reading was in line with the constitution and therefore democratic. The fact that the dems walked out and boycotted the vote after 19 hours of debate is their problem - it does not make the passing of the bill to the Senate any less democratic. The protesters are not trying to overthrow a government they are trying to overthrow the democratic right of every eligible Thai to vote in an election. There is no justification for that behaviour, none. It wasn't passed entirely in line with the constitution, given there were some MPs voting for others. MP's voting for "absent" colleagues occurred during the Senate "changes" bill, not the Amnesty Bill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apiwan Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 God help us,now it's starting to look serious, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 The Red's from he countryside see their basic human rights disappearing under Suthep's People's Council, whether you think it will happen or not is beside the point. They will fight not to be disenfranchised. And people fighting for causes usually triumph over those fighting for a few bucks. Most of the people protesting see their basic human rights slipping away in front of their eyes, with the government trying to whitewash Thaksin's crimes, and reducing budgets of independent agencies that are supposed to be the checks and balances of the whole democratic system. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny11kk Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Suthep's plan to shut down Bangkok is working. He already has the red shirts bringing 500,000 people to help. 500,000 people from rat shirt does not mean much because the middle guys pocket in most of the salary and the a lot of the employee got piss off and quit. The big boss need to beef up the salary big time to achieve the effect of massive red sea. Well he should know as he is the master of such thing. Edited January 2, 2014 by bunny11kk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkksteviejai Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Alwyn, on 02 Jan 2014 - 16:00, said: Prbkk, on 02 Jan 2014 - 15:21, said:This is what happens when one side of the political divide decides not to play by the rules. Thank Suthep for any violence I agree totally. I also predict you're going to get battered here about YL being a pawn of Thaksin and it's all Thaksin and red shirts fault, yardy yardy etc Isn't it Alwyn? This is when everything started going bad! Red shirts try to protect their government elected on the back of 15 million votes, what should they do? It's caused by Mr Suthep trying to circumvent the democratic electoral process, nobody else. One thing we agree on is that it's going to get bad, to quote Enoch Powell, "rivers of blood" will be coming. Shame for the normal Thai citizens who had their say in the votes (from both parties not just PT voters). Worse still is that in the future people will think this is normal, don't like the party that's been elected? No problem we'll follow Suthep's example... I think exactly this kind of nonsense has been considered normal here for quite a long time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob8891 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Smart logic in operation here..... The reds want to protest against the protestors blocking BKK... How? By bringing more protestors onto the streets. OK....Carry on! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 ... on the face of it, it seems that their democratically elected Government is trying to be overthrown by some loony talking about People's Councils. That's exactly what it is The 'democratically' elected government was being undemocratic is trying to push through an "blanket amnesty bill'. That's when the protests really started. By now the government has stepped down, as such it's interesting that some still talk about 'overthrowing' it. You may disagree with the content of the amnesty bill, as did I, but the way it was passed through the 2nd and 3rd reading was in line with the constitution and therefore democratic. The fact that the dems walked out and boycotted the vote after 19 hours of debate is their problem - it does not make the passing of the bill to the Senate any less democratic. The protesters are not trying to overthrow a government they are trying to overthrow the democratic right of every eligible Thai to vote in an election. There is no justification for that behaviour, none. Sorry chum, but you can't have your cake and eat it. Since the government was illegally carrying out orders from an unelected wanted criminal then the government breaking a de facto reconciliation, makes its actions unacceptable. One might say that the State was naive in letting the clone government operate as such but in the event they were given enough rope to hang themselves with. Quite frankly if we are referencing the constitution then the PTP should be banned for illegal and unconstitutional activities but that wasn't quite what you had in mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkksteviejai Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 To understand what he is saying you must understand the Thai's. The red shirts will only come to the BKK streets if there is a coup in favour of Suthep or if Suthep's actions starts a civil war. What Jatuporn is doing is to send a message to the army - don't try a coup and assist the government to maintain/regain order, if you don't we will. What the red shirts will do is to seek conflict in cities/towns outside of BKK where they will show what will happen in BKK if they are ignored. Sutheps main problem is if locks down BKK he will lose the support of many people in BKK and will have to rely on southerners for protest numbers. The cost of this will be staggering and his paymasters may have to change tactics. Another problem is that normal people who's livelyhood is taken away by Suthep's protests may start to take action on their own. I am expecting more and more attacks on the protesters by fustrated people (food vendors, taxi's etc). Bang on. Like those numpties who occupied Ratchaprasong a few years back, just going to become a tinder box. We have already seen an example of what happens when that taxi driver was set upon........how dare he suggest people should just be allowed to go about their business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny11kk Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Smart logic in operation here..... The reds want to protest against the protestors blocking BKK... How? By bringing more protestors onto the streets. OK....Carry on! When the red comes, red blood will shed and I guess this is how they are going to protect blocking of BKK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Emster23 Posted January 2, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 2, 2014 "People against the Shinawatras don't despise the rural poor, we despise the corrupt people who pretend to help the rural poor." Are the old guard old school filthy rich Bangkok elite somehow better because they never pretended to help anyone more than 40 miles from Bangkok central? That the rest of the country was just there to fatten their accounts and provide cheap ignorant labor? If anyone is crazy enough to believe that this is about some sort of democracy, they need to have their heads checked. Leaders of both groups are rotten, self serving and cynically using the gullibility of the masses to further their own ends. And enough of this bogey man puppet master in Dubai stuff. His is chump change compared to the money that flows around the long established masters of Thailand. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikke Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 This is what happens when one side of the political divide decides not to play by the rules. Thank Suthep for any violence The rules that were broken were by Yingkuck's administration. That's what caused this mess Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Please explain and/or come up with some proof about what you state ! The mess is an understatement of what is happening, Suthep is willing to turn Thailand into a dictatorship , and all violence is on his account ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackptoke Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Hegelian's Philosophy. Thesis = Anti-Thaksin that want to take away/reduce non-Bangkokians' right Anti-synthesis = Anti-coup/so-called "pro-democracy" Soon we will hear an antithesis. I don't know exactly what it is, but it could be "Absolute monarchy". Both sides are playing their parts in this game. It makes sense to me, as both sides are claiming to be loyal to the monarchy. So when the pain of separation is no longer bearable, they will be willing to give up their voting rights. In my estimation, both sides serve the same master. IMO you think too much. I hope you are right. Just think about it. The crown is needed to be transferred. A smooth one is needed. Can't elaborate much on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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