Farang door mats

[willyumiii]

Did a comma offend you at some point?

Thanks for the interesting post on this topic!

Grammar, spelling and punctuation Nazis are not wanted or needed on TV!

This is a frigging blog, a thread to state opinions and give advise!

No one here is submitting a frigging book for publication and critics and editors are not relevant.

For many here English is not even their first language and posting in English that is understandable by any reasonable English reading person, is just fine.

If you need to criticize people's use of the language, become an English teacher in Thailand

They need you.

TV members do not need you.

If you can not add to or discuss the topic,

PLEASE, step away from the keyboard!

[GuestHouse]

I need to book mark this thread so I can repost it into the frequent 'bend over and take it like an Alian" threads we see of TVF.

Forgieners protesting about other foreigners standing up for themselves here in Thailand is one of the classic TVF themes. I have never understood the mindset of people who do this - but there are a lot of them on TVF.

Great -- so now we have a post with a foreigner protesting against foreigners who protest against foreigners who protest.

Not yet we don't but I guarantee when the discussion does come up we'll only have one side telling the other to "go home"

[noikrit]

I thought someone was lookng for a door mat ..... as you where gents ....

[JLCrab]

I have re-read Post #1 and in 10+ years in Thailand I cannot think of any situation as described and whereby some Thai person has walked all over me and my values had to be defended ... only maybe when I was asked to leave abruptly end-of-the month from my monthly service apartment of 6 years for among other reasons my girl friend showing up oft times without wearing a bra which the management claimed caused major distraction amongst the guests and employee personnel.

[473geo]

Quite simple really, some guys are relaxed and just don't sweat the small stuff, others can't understand why, get their knickers in a twist and moan about it, along with the small stuff!

[CIHUAHUA]

A lot depends on the character of the farang- I have noticed that those with inferiority complexes will be more likely to take offense and feel the need to "stand up for themselves ".

Are you saying that a person should not stand up for themselves? And, are you saying that if a person does stand up for themselves they have inferiority complexes? What kind of character are you?

[mmh8]

I've got no face, however it really upsets the locals if you call a lie a lie

just remember telling the father in law a lie is alie is one way to really piss off the misssis

[NoshowJones]

you have to ask why do farangs end up in thailand or other asian countries, what general type decides that thailand is for them and their reasons for coming (usually for p****) and settling down (before losing their money). Seems like most farangs don't play the long game, lose their cash and end up bitter.

A lot of Farangs yes, but I would not say most. I have met many Farangs socially here in Thailand,and only heard (not read) of one guy who lost all his money and joined the Pattaya flying club. But do not be quick to condemn, it could happen to almost anyone.

[NoshowJones]

Personally, I think there's a lot to be said for the bloke who can turn the other cheek and calmly walk away especially if it can be done without remorse later. It's far more noble to be capable of that than to become embroiled in a situation in a country where the rule of law doesn't even apply to the locals let alone the foreigners and where things can get very nasty, very quickly.

Unfortunately, however, I'm not the type to let people take the piss.

If a local tries to knock me or palm me off with shitty service or goods, I generally stand my ground until I get what I want.

That usually works out in my favour because

1. I'm not an unreasonable person and I'm not averse to compromise

2. I've got no one to impress,

3. I've got no "face" to save since I don't give much of a toss what the locals think

On more than one occasion, I've been commended for standing up for myself here - by both Thais and Westerners - but I don't strut away indignantly feeling proud of myself

No, I walk away thanking the stars that common sense and awareness ensures I know which fights to fight and which to walk away from.

Hardened Soul, I have not been a fan of some of your posts, but I have to say this is one of the best I have ever read on Thaivisa and a great example to any Farang living here.

[NoshowJones]

A lot depends on the character of the farang- I have noticed that those with inferiority complexes will be more likely to take offense and feel the need to "stand up for themselves ".

I don't think Hardened Soul, or anyone who gave him all these 'likes', has got an inferiority complex. I know I certainly don't.

[NoshowJones]

I feel taking offense is morally worse than giving it.

There are very few "values and morals all people of all races should share", murder and cannibalism etc maybe but certainly not petty bourgeois stuff like noise pollution in the neighborhood, regulating what consenting adults want to do with their own and each others' bodies, or transparent pricing that applies to all customers.

99% of what any given human thinks is "right" or "wrong" in an ethical sense is just cultural programming, and learning that - really incorporating that truth into my day-to-day life is one of the most valuable features of living in a foreign culture.

It's a dog eat dog world out there, I find my life works best - for me - if I live and let live and mind my own business. If I feel someone has "transgressed" directly against me, I consciously choose whether or not to "do something about it" based on what's best for my own peace of mind, not from any simplistic "principles" or macho sense of what it is to "be a man".

If that stance causes others to consider me a doormat, that doesn't bother me much.

I also believe in live or let live, I also always mind my own business, and never interfere with anyone else, but no one of any nationality will ever use me as a doormat.

[NoshowJones]

"Is it out of fear for the locals,fear of rattling the cage,why fear offending someone if they offend you."

Because I am afraid that if I offend a local..........he will come back with 10 of his friends.....and send me to hospital.

We are dealing with people with a different mentality and attitude than in Europe or USA.

That's very true, but I will never let anyone bully me, I will admit though, if I sense any danger I will run, rather than let 10 Thai guys put me in hospital. I might still end up in hospital as some guys may run faster than me.

[JLCrab]

If someone says that he knows which fights to fight and which fights to walk away, that means at least 4 fights at which point I might be asking myself: Why is it that I get into so many fights?

[NoshowJones]

Did a comma offend you at some point?

Thanks for the interesting post on this topic!

Grammar, spelling and punctuation Nazis are not wanted or needed on TV!

This is a frigging blog, a thread to state opinions and give advise!

No one here is submitting a frigging book for publication and critics and editors are not relevant.

For many here English is not even their first language and posting in English that is understandable by any reasonable English reading person, is just fine.

If you need to criticize people's use of the language, become an English teacher in Thailand

They need you.

TV members do not need you.

If you can not add to or discuss the topic,

PLEASE, step away from the keyboard!

Good post, I have been an English teacher for three years and will never criticise peoples grammar, spelling etc, but if someone comes on this forum saying they want to be an English teacher in Thailand, and there post is riddled with grammatical mistakes etc, then I will post and say so.

[seajae]

Costas was pretty spot on, the trouble here is the reaction of the locals can be way overboard, honk your horn at another driver and they wave a gun at you, argue about a baht or two and you end up dead, talk to someones girlfriend and they shoot your mate, the list just goes on. There are occasions when you stand up for yourself at your own peril as there are a lot of thais that put face before common sense, you have to learn when its the right time to hold back(as they never fight 1 on 1, they always bring in all their mates to save face from losing). Even when in the wrong(blatantly at that), some thais will not back down but then there are farangs that are the same so you need to adjust your basic instincts here to suit the prevailing conditions, doesnt mean you let people walk on you but simply sometimes its better to turn away and hold your tongue.

ps. hope I used enough commas

[Tchooptip]

Did a comma offend you at some point?

Thanks for the interesting post on this topic!

Grammar, spelling and punctuation Nazis are not wanted or needed on TV!

This is a frigging blog, a thread to state opinions and give advise!

No one here is submitting a frigging book for publication and critics and editors are not relevant.

For many here English is not even their first language and posting in English that is understandable by any reasonable English reading person, is just fine.

If you need to criticize people's use of the language, become an English teacher in Thailand

They need you.

TV members do not need you.

If you can not add to or discuss the topic,

PLEASE, step away from the keyboard!

Good post, I have been an English teacher for three years and will never criticise peoples grammar, spelling etc, but if someone comes on this forum saying they want to be an English teacher in Thailand, and there post is riddled with grammatical mistakes etc, then I will post and say so.

The no space after a coma,if you allow me,has nothing to do with English,its universal,so nothing to do with the non native English speakers on TV,by the way I am not,and I also believe it is not very elegant,but shut my mouth,so IMHO it was a little humour,did a comma offend you at some point? is not very offensive,on the other hand the answer of willyumii,wow

[DeepInTheForest]

Did a comma offend you at some point?

Thanks for the interesting post on this topic!

Grammar, spelling and punctuation Nazis are not wanted or needed on TV!

This is a frigging blog, a thread to state opinions and give advise!

No one here is submitting a frigging book for publication and critics and editors are not relevant.

For many here English is not even their first language and posting in English that is understandable by any reasonable English reading person, is just fine.

If you need to criticize people's use of the language, become an English teacher in Thailand

They need you.

TV members do not need you.

If you can not add to or discuss the topic,

PLEASE, step away from the keyboard!

Good post, I have been an English teacher for three years and will never criticise peoples grammar, spelling etc, but if someone comes on this forum saying they want to be an English teacher in Thailand, and there post is riddled with grammatical mistakes etc, then I will post and say so.

Really??!

[NoshowJones]

Did a comma offend you at some point?

Thanks for the interesting post on this topic!

Grammar, spelling and punctuation Nazis are not wanted or needed on TV!

This is a frigging blog, a thread to state opinions and give advise!

No one here is submitting a frigging book for publication and critics and editors are not relevant.

For many here English is not even their first language and posting in English that is understandable by any reasonable English reading person, is just fine.

If you need to criticize people's use of the language, become an English teacher in Thailand

They need you.

TV members do not need you.

If you can not add to or discuss the topic,

PLEASE, step away from the keyboard!

Good post, I have been an English teacher for three years and will never criticise peoples grammar, spelling etc, but if someone comes on this forum saying they want to be an English teacher in Thailand, and there post is riddled with grammatical mistakes etc, then I will post and say so.

The no space after a coma,if you allow me,has nothing to do with English,its universal,so nothing to do with the non native English speakers on TV,by the way I am not,and I also believe it is not very elegant,but shut my mouth,so IMHO it was a little humour,did a comma offend you at some point? is not very offensive,on the other hand the answer of willyumii,wow

I have got to admit I did not know there was no space after a comma. Any other English teachers like to comment on this?

[Tchooptip]

Of course THERE IS A SPACE after a coma, that WAS the reason farang000999 said so, OP wrote all his posts WHITHOUT space, this very answer of mine was without only kind of... guess you misunderstood

(too much answers to quote)

[jaideejoe]

Personally, I think there's a lot to be said for the bloke who can turn the other cheek and calmly walk away especially if it can be done without remorse later. It's far more noble to be capable of that than to become embroiled in a situation in a country where the rule of law doesn't even apply to the locals let alone the foreigners and where things can get very nasty, very quickly.

Unfortunately, however, I'm not the type to let people take the piss.

If a local tries to knock me or palm me off with shitty service or goods, I generally stand my ground until I get what I want.

That usually works out in my favour because

1. I'm not an unreasonable person and I'm not averse to compromise

2. I've got no one to impress,

3. I've got no "face" to save since I don't give much of a toss what the locals think

On more than one occasion, I've been commended for standing up for myself here - by both Thais and Westerners - but I don't strut away indignantly feeling proud of myself

No, I walk away thanking the stars that common sense and awareness ensures I know which fights to fight and which to walk away from.

This is exactly how I have been trying to put it,well done.

Well put to words - I stand up for myself all the time - but its knowing which battles to fight and which ones to leave behind that matters the most

I have always been a stickler for making a point based on principals - I have had to leave that behind in many occassions here in Thailand due to the lack of principals and the the lack of basic understanding of important life principals - those values never ever existed here to begin with

Thais have been programed mostly by the chinese and thai chinese people with money - kept barefoot and uneducated - many countries find it easier to manage the population if the masses kept barefoot and ignorant.

[Stradavarius37]

Lighten up Francis

[jaideejoe]

I have had to leave that behind in many occassions here in Thailand due to the lack of principals and the the lack of basic understanding of important life principals - those values never ever existed here to begin with

Thais have been programed mostly by the chinese and thai chinese people with money - kept barefoot and uneducated - many countries find it easier to manage the population if the masses kept barefoot and ignorant.

Maybe this kind of arrogance is causing some of the problems listed in this post. I have always found if you treat people with politeness and respect you are most often treated the same in return. Part of the politeness and respect thing is learning-understanding and following the countries cultural norms your a GUEST here and you should adapt your FOREIGN behaviour accordingly.

Personally, I think there's a lot to be said for the bloke who can turn the other cheek and calmly walk away especially if it can be done without remorse later. It's far more noble to be capable of that than to become embroiled in a situation in a country where the rule of law doesn't even apply to the locals let alone the foreigners and where things can get very nasty, very quickly.

Unfortunately, however, I'm not the type to let people take the piss.

If a local tries to knock me or palm me off with shitty service or goods, I generally stand my ground until I get what I want.

That usually works out in my favour because

1. I'm not an unreasonable person and I'm not averse to compromise

2. I've got no one to impress,

3. I've got no "face" to save since I don't give much of a toss what the locals think


On more than one occasion, I've been commended for standing up for myself here - by both Thais and Westerners - but I don't strut away indignantly feeling proud of myself

No, I walk away thanking the stars that common sense and awareness ensures I know which fights to fight and which to walk away from.

This is exactly how I have been trying to put it,well done.

Well put to words - I stand up for myself all the time - but its knowing which battles to fight and which ones to leave behind that matters the most

I have always been a stickler for making a point based on principals - I have had to leave that behind in many occassions here in Thailand due to the lack of principals and the the lack of basic understanding of important life principals - those values never ever existed here to begin with

Thais have been programed mostly by the chinese and thai chinese people with money - kept barefoot and uneducated - many countries find it easier to manage the population if the masses kept barefoot and ignorant.

[Costas2008]

I think, all these people ranting about...how brave they are and how they stand up against others............They are thinking of their wives!

But be careful......even she can hit you back......one day!

[NoshowJones]

Did a comma offend you at some point?

Thanks for the interesting post on this topic!

Grammar, spelling and punctuation Nazis are not wanted or needed on TV!

This is a frigging blog, a thread to state opinions and give advise!

No one here is submitting a frigging book for publication and critics and editors are not relevant.

For many here English is not even their first language and posting in English that is understandable by any reasonable English reading person, is just fine.

If you need to criticize people's use of the language, become an English teacher in Thailand

They need you.

TV members do not need you.

If you can not add to or discuss the topic,

PLEASE, step away from the keyboard!

Good post, I have been an English teacher for three years and will never criticise peoples grammar, spelling etc, but if someone comes on this forum saying they want to be an English teacher in Thailand, and there post is riddled with grammatical mistakes etc, then I will post and say so.

Really??!

Yes, really??

[Rinrada]

The one expression that I cant stand is the apologetic....

"don't forget that you are a guest in their country etc...and you must allow the little darlings to walk all over you"...Krup and yai Krup.

You get the one chance in life to throw the dice...pick them up ..and decide to spend your existence on the planet either living under a stone...or be a World Citizen.

Having lived and worked in at least 20 odd countries and visited scores more I would be the first to suggest get an insight as to how their setup operates and be aware...not necessary respectful... since some are pretty "drastic"

In Saudi (for ex)it would rather stupid for a western female to walk around in public showing all her bits but just has bad if she is forced to wear a bag over her head.(Actually discussed the subject once briefly with Prince Abdullah ...now the big boss...another time)

Back in LOS I have always found the Thais to be great and we know that sometimes conversations are whispered rather than shouted but when asked for my opinion I am always happy to give it and usually its well received.....and No ..I am not waiting for the secret police to turn up.

Over here like most places there are (old exp) secrets and damm lies...just sort them out aint too difficult...but you do have a duty... to oneself....right

[uptheos]

Did a comma offend you at some point?

Take a deep breath first.

[Jawnie]

Is this about the coffee?

If it isn't, let's start a thread about Thai coffee: it SUCKS!

[Docno]

It's all about balance and knowing where right pivot point is between 'going with the flow' versus 'digging your heals in'. That pivot point will vary across cultures. In Thailand, it's closer to the 'go with the flow' end of the spectrum than in most western/anglo countries. Probably something to do with the Buddhist outlook. Anyway, you have more chance of getting what you want (and living a life of contentment) if you adjust your behaviour to the pivot point. In Thailand, one still has to be assertive at times, but it's more effective if done in a more 'quiet' but firm manner rather than the overtly confrontational and aggressive manner that some advocate here. Just a couple of days ago, an Aussie friend of mine had a problem with a taxi driver in Bangkok and he lost his temper and the driver just sealed up (but kept driving). My gf and I had to calm the situation down over the phone and everything ended up ok (and I had to explain to my friend that he losing his temper at driver was not going to solve the problem).

[JLCrab]

... or else one can say it's all about avoiding situations wherein one finds oneself at that pivot point.

[David48]

Just how did a thread about Farang Door Mats turn in a masochistic thread intent in beating each other and ourselves up?

Surely we can rise above that? No?

Signed

Confused ...

.