'Men in black' controversy: Thai Police on defensive over Dec 26 conflict

[webfact]

MEN IN BLACK CONTROVERSY
Police on defensive over Dec 26 conflict
Panya Thiosangwan,
Noppadon Sritaweekart
The Nation



Top officer admits existence of rooftop team at Labour Ministry on the day

BANGKOK: -- National Police chief Pol Gen Adul Saengsingkaew has become the first senior official to admit that some policemen were indeed on the rooftop of a Labour Ministry building during the confrontation between police and anti-government demonstrators on December 26.

After Adul's statement, Deputy National Police Commissioner Gen Worapong Chewprecha and National Police Office adviser Gen Jarumporn Suramanee convened a press conference to deny any link between the police team on the rooftop and the gunfire that killed a junior policeman and a demonstrator.

"Judging by the trajectory, those bullets could not have been fired from the rooftop," Jarumporn said. He was also quick to add that the police team on the rooftop had only rubber bullets and tear gas.

Pol Col Nattapon Komintarachart said the crowd-control police team he heads went to the rooftop three times between 10am and noon on December 26 to fire tear gas. "We didn't use any live ammunition," he insisted.

Jarumporn said a fact-finding committee would also be established to look into a video clip apparently showing some policemen smashing the windows of a volunteer nurse's pickup.

"An initial probe suggests that these policemen were looking for the cop killer. We will investigate this case further," he said.

Jarumporn spoke up only after Adul confirmed the police presence on the rooftop and that some officers had indeed smashed the windshield of a pickup.

"Yes. What's true is true. So, I admit it," Adul said when asked whether police were involved in the two incidents that had appeared in widely circulated video clips.

Earlier, Piya Uthayo, spokesman for the Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order (Capo), had tried to suggest that some men stole police uniforms and probably destroyed people's property in a bid to slander police. Metropolitan Police Commissioner Pol Lt-General Camronwit Toopgrajank also suggested a third party was to blame for the casualties that arose from the bloody incidents on December 26.

Adul confirmed the police role in the two incidents after he led senior officers to deliver their best wishes and receive New Year blessings from the president of the Privy Council, General Prem Tinsulanonda, yesterday morning.

When asked again about the police role in the December 26 incidents, Camronwit yesterday simply said: "I was not there. You had better ask Worapong. He's in charge of the operation under the Capo order."

The violent confrontations between police and anti-government demonstrators erupted around the Thai-Japanese Stadium on December 26 after the protesters tried to prevent the registration of party-list candidates for the February 2 election, which was held at the stadium.

Akanat Promphan, spokesman for the People's Democratic Reform Committee, pointed at how relevant officials had provided conflicting information on the incident in recent weeks.

"Now, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra should provide answers herself," he said.


-- The Nation 2014-01-03

[Mosha]

"Now, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra should provide answers herself," he said.

Good luck with that one.

[EyesWideOpen]

With all the bizarre actions of the Thai " police", they must really be hating

the fact everyone has a smartphone and can video the police in " action".

Am sure they miss the good old days of doing whatever they want, and then denying

everything......

[Scamper]

The police, accustomed to being backed by their own stories, now find themselves battling with the national chief of police - who it seems has been struck with an alarming case of honesty - as well as the field of forensics, and science in general. As Tennessee Williams would say " Do you not notice the powerful aroma of mendacity ? "

[tominbkk]

Sure, we lied about many many things, but believe us when we say we did not shoot anyone...

[wordchild]

The behavior of the police when they smashed the car (at least as it looked on the video) does not accord with the story that they were looking for a fugitive gunman; it looks more like the police were trying to scare and intimidate the occupants.

Edited January 3, 2014 by wordchild

[JRSoul]

"He was also quick to add that the police team on the rooftop had only rubber bullets and tear gas."

Right. No sidearms, nothing like a handgun. How often do you see RTP carrying a gun, it's almost unheard of.

[noitom]

He says they were "looking for the cop-killer." But they don't go looking for the cop killer involved in the Sukhumvit hit and run cop killing more than a year ago where they have already issued three warrants for his arrest. Why are Thai police so interested now to send men in black to look for the cop-killer?

[LuckyLew]

He says they were "looking for the cop-killer." But they don't go looking for the cop killer involved in the Sukhumvit hit and run cop killing more than a year ago where they have already issued three warrants for his arrest. Why are Thai police so interested now to send men in black to look for the cop-killer?

They should look in the mirror 555

[boomerangutang]

Police policing themselves. Uh huh. What's wrong with this picture?

[trogers]

The police, accustomed to being backed by their own stories, now find themselves battling with the national chief of police - who it seems has been struck with an alarming case of honesty - as well as the field of forensics, and science in general. As Tennessee Williams would say " Do you not notice the powerful aroma of mendacity ? "

One who has survived numerous political upheavels over the decades to reach such a post would have an exceptional nose to sense the coming wind of change...

[Cnxforever]

since when does the police have to justify where they where stationed and when to observe / teargas violent protestors storming government properties?

The rooftop group are clearly identifiable as riot police - only the alcoholic / brainless Chalerm was the one who denied they where there - he probably did not even know what day it was and in which country this was happening!

Same for the police chief - as always in Thailand the "managers" are never around and have no clue what is happening!

Then again just another "The Nation" story!

[wprime]

So Chalerm's claim that they were protestors was just an outright lie?

[Deez]

With all the bizarre actions of the Thai " police", they must really be hating the fact everyone has a smartphone and can video the police in " action". Am sure they miss the good old days of doing whatever they want, and then denying everything......

True. But they still deny everything even with proof

[JRSoul]

since when does the police have to justify where they where stationed and when to observe / teargas violent protestors storming government properties?

The rooftop group are clearly identifiable as riot police - only the alcoholic / brainless Chalerm was the one who denied they where there - he probably did not even know what day it was and in which country this was happening!

Same for the police chief - as always in Thailand the "managers" are never around and have no clue what is happening!

Then again just another "The Nation" story!

When people are shot for no apparent reason? Or are police literally "above the law" when on a rooftop?

Edited January 3, 2014 by JRSoul

[Baerboxer]

So Chalerm's claim that they were protestors was just an outright lie?

Yes.

If the police chief and video evidence are to be believed, then Chalerm and CAPO simply lied. Any one surprised?

Where are all the red posters who were insisting it was all protesters in stolen police uniforms?

[Robby nz]

I posted way back when this was actually happening that the Mrs who was there phoned me and told me someone was shooting at them from on the roof.

That was long before any photos and videos came out.

She was helping one of the nurses at the time and told me of helping one of the protesters who had been shot in the leg.

Yes she has nursing training and has seen bullet wounds before.

I prefer to believe her as she was actually there to witness the shooting rather to believe the top cops who are most likely trying to cover their own ass.

[Centrum]

So Chalerm's claim that they were protestors was just an outright lie?

Yes.

If the police chief and video evidence are to be believed, then Chalerm and CAPO simply lied. Any one surprised?

Where are all the red posters who were insisting it was all protesters in stolen police uniforms?

They've waiting for the next story they can distort.

[ManopY]

Sure, we lied about many many things, but believe us when we say we did not shoot anyone...

[ManopY]

... He was also quick to add that the police team on the rooftop had only rubber bullets and tear gas....

Have a look at those pictures here under and you will see that this is not teargas guns or even shotguns!

This is rifles! It seems like 1 is sniper rifle, an other one is a AK and the 3rd one a M16!

Have a look by your self!

[BuddyPinkham]

The left hand of the police department doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Really makes you feel safe have such a police department doesn't it!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I have a feeling that more and more will finally come out as to who has been behind all these shootings and killings. Only in time.

[WhizBang]

If these men-in-black were police (now confirmed by the police themselves), were the 'men-in-black' in 2010 also police?

[dominique355]

These "Men in Black" on roof tops with rifles, shooting at specific victimes, the killing of which would make a huge controversy and stir up emotions and hatred sound awfully familiar, don't they?

More people are "armed" today with smart phones and cameras to document what is going on, not like 2010.

Is the truth finally coming out about who these men in black actually are?

[theslime]

since when does the police have to justify where they where stationed and when to observe / teargas violent protestors storming government properties?

The rooftop group are clearly identifiable as riot police - only the alcoholic / brainless Chalerm was the one who denied they where there - he probably did not even know what day it was and in which country this was happening!

Same for the police chief - as always in Thailand the "managers" are never around and have no clue what is happening!

Then again just another "The Nation" story!

Duh, when people are murdered from roof tops. Suppose you have by now seen the post of heavily armed roof top police, what,s ya take on that?

[bigbamboo]

"Now, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra should provide answers herself," he said.

Good luck with that one.

Back to the Skype again.........

[citizen33]

The official statements are confusing and we don’t have full information, but my hunch is that this was a case of police on the roof at the time when the Labour Ministry building was under siege.

I have been puzzled all along why the thread we had on the siege of the building (‘windows were broken and our offices ransacked’)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/692385-police-inspect-thai-labour-ministry-compound/

was not connected to the first MiB thread.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/692339-chalerm-told-to-clarify-men-in-black-at-the-labour-ministry/page-3

I think Post #74 on this last thread may be about right:

“Showed the vid to a policeman ( armed unit ) stationed heathrow 12 years exp army previous. Trained in the use of both live fire ammunition, crowd control and appropriate weaponry.

Verdict: just his opinion nothing overly unusual about it, regular crowd control arms, tear gas usage, probably fire crackers for noise and effect and non lethal crowd control looking type firearm, most likely rubber bullet type. very unlikely stun grenades used from what he could see and hear. Certainly not any live fire evidence he could see, smoke from weapon on the right not sniper fire almost certainly crowd control projectile using appropriate firearm. No sniper runs about, it takes time and training to line up on moving targets it’s not drop and shoot if your picking your target that’s for the movies. Personally I have to say it looks like regular riot control stuff used by non fully armoured riot police to me.”

We’ve seen elsewhere that it was not possible for the dead police officer to be shot from the Labour Ministry roof position, and that it is perhaps the death of the protester that might be at issue. We can’t really clear that up, but we can see a figure in the MiB video throwing an object (probably a tear gas canister) from the roof, which is what one would expect if protesters were directly below trying to break into the building.

Edited January 3, 2014 by citizen33

[Curt1591]

I think the reason different threads aren't connected is because many have a hard time connecting different posts within the same thread!

[mikemac]

So Chalerm's claim that they were protestors was just an outright lie?

Everything that comes out of this drunken thug's stupid mouth is either an outright lie, or pure fantasy.

And I take back what I said when I saw the heading of this story, "Men in Black controversy", as I thought this topic would be overrun by trolls.

So far "fabio" and co. have not gathered the courage to open their stupid mouths, unlike their hero Chalerm.

[wprime]

The official statements are confusing and we don’t have full information, but my hunch is that this was a case of police on the roof at the time when the Labour Ministry building was under siege.

I have been puzzled all along why the thread we had on the siege of the building (‘windows were broken and our offices ransacked’)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/692385-police-inspect-thai-labour-ministry-compound/

was not connected to the first MiB thread.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/692339-chalerm-told-to-clarify-men-in-black-at-the-labour-ministry/page-3

I think Post #74 on this last thread may be about right:

“Showed the vid to a policeman ( armed unit ) stationed heathrow 12 years exp army previous. Trained in the use of both live fire ammunition, crowd control and appropriate weaponry.

Verdict: just his opinion nothing overly unusual about it, regular crowd control arms, tear gas usage, probably fire crackers for noise and effect and non lethal crowd control looking type firearm, most likely rubber bullet type. very unlikely stun grenades used from what he could see and hear. Certainly not any live fire evidence he could see, smoke from weapon on the right not sniper fire almost certainly crowd control projectile using appropriate firearm. No sniper runs about, it takes time and training to line up on moving targets it’s not drop and shoot if your picking your target that’s for the movies. Personally I have to say it looks like regular riot control stuff used by non fully armoured riot police to me.”

We’ve seen elsewhere that it was not possible for the dead police officer to be shot from the Labour Ministry roof position, and that it is perhaps the death of the protester that might be at issue. We can’t really clear that up, but we can see a figure in the MiB video throwing an object (probably a tear gas canister) from the roof, which is what one would expect if protesters were directly below trying to break into the building.

They say Kennedy could not have been shot from Oswald's position, all we really know is that they both were shot from an elevated position and that armed police officers were on the roof of a building. There is plenty of evidence to work with, we know what type of weapons the police were using and there would be bullets found at the scene.

[khunken]

Earlier, Piya Uthayo, spokesman for the Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order (Capo), had tried to suggest that some men stole police uniforms and probably destroyed people's property in a bid to slander police. Metropolitan Police Commissioner Pol Lt-General Camronwit Toopgrajank also suggested a third party was to blame for the casualties that arose from the bloody incidents on December 26.

Adul confirmed the police role in the two incidents after he led senior officers to deliver their best wishes and receive New Year blessings from the president of the Privy Council, General Prem Tinsulanonda, yesterday morning.

When asked again about the police role in the December 26 incidents, Camronwit yesterday simply said: "I was not there. You had better ask Worapong. He's in charge of the operation under the Capo order."

So Capo lied - with passport expert Surapong in charge hardly surprising.

The Met police chief also made up 'facts' and then admitted he wasn't there.

Chalerm shoots his mouth of and says it wasn't police.

Kudos to Adul for unexpected honesty though.

The real whistle-blowers are those responsible for the rooftop photos (by drone?) and the photos of the police attacking a car. When photos & videos emerge showing police to be lying it's best to admit the truth - except if you are Chalerm.