Are you an Atheist/Believer?

[GuyL]

Thank God, I'm an aheist!

By the way, I am not a number, I am a free man, but the number 6 suits me very well here!

[sirineou]

It seems many here view religion as a political or social phenomenon rather than as spiritual belief systems. Organized religion and spirituality are two different things. Religion certainly has been (mis)used to manipulate populations in the same way that politics and military action has.

sorry graytown but organised religion is organised spirituality

Ps: How is this thread even remotely related to Thailand

Edited January 5, 2014 by sirineou

[sustento]

If you ignore the first five then the remaining commandments are found in many other religions and amount to nothing more than self-preservation.

Yes there appears to be a lot of overlapping dogma between the different religions. I also find interesting that, with the exception of Sikh Hinduism, all the main religions share a nearly identical belief in Heaven and Hell as described in the Bible.

Buddhism has heavens and hells but they are nothing like those found in other religions. The Buddhist hell is just another round of rebirth. I don't understand your remark about 'Sikh Hinduism'. Sikhism and Hinduism are two separate religions with very different beliefs to each other.

[OmegaRacer]

It seems many here view religion as a political or social phenomenon rather than as spiritual belief systems. Organized religion and spirituality are two different things. Religion certainly has been (mis)used to manipulate populations in the same way that politics and military action has.

sorry graytown but organised religion is organised spirituality

Ps: How is this thread even remotely related to Thailand

We are atheists, we are believers, we live in Thailand....there you go.

[sirineou]

It seems many here view religion as a political or social phenomenon rather than as spiritual belief systems. Organized religion and spirituality are two different things. Religion certainly has been (mis)used to manipulate populations in the same way that politics and military action has.

sorry graytown but organised religion is organised spirituality

Ps: How is this thread even remotely related to Thailand

We are atheists, we are believers, we live in Thailand....there you go.

Oh I get it.

much like Mineral exploration on the moon would be a Thai subject because , we live in Thailand and we can see the moon from Thailand?

[itsrebel]

Some of the things that drive some of us away from religion:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/crisis-in-south-africa-the-shocking-practice-of-corrective-rape--aimed-at-curing-lesbians-9033224.html

"One such religious leader is Reverend Oscar Peter Bougardt, a senior pastor in the Mitchell's Plain township, 20 miles from Cape Town. "Homosexuals can change," he told Carter. "Homosexuality is a curse... a wicked influence... they come after our young people. Any clergy or priest that approves [of] homosexuality is from the pit of hell.""

I am not sure if I am allowed to paste links to news articles here. If the mods delete this, you can search for "Corrective rape" and South Africa to get the story. It is in The Independent.

[notmyself]

It would be inadmissible if Christ himself wrote the scriptures but he didn't. Men did.

Is the Bible not the word of God? Father, Son and Holy ghost etc.

The Bible, like all other religious writings, is a book written by men.

But to many, it is the word of God.

[StreetCowboy]

It would be inadmissible if Christ himself wrote the scriptures but he didn't. Men did.

Is the Bible not the word of God? Father, Son and Holy ghost etc.

The Bible, like all other religious writings, is a book written by men.

But to many, it is the word of God.

Unlike the Qoran, I thought it was pretty much the word of the apostles.

Apparently God speaks Arabic. I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say anything different

SC

[notmyself]

Unlike the Qoran, I thought it was pretty much the word of the apostles.

Apparently God speaks Arabic. I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say anything different

SC

I know that, you know that and most any thinking person knows that but to many many people, it is the word of God.

You are perfectly correct about the Qur'an. It is supposedly the perfect, unalterable and final word of the god of Abraham. Strange then that the Malaysian government just this week confiscated hundreds of Bibles (again) because it contained 'Allah' instead of 'God'.

[StreetCowboy]

Unlike the Qoran, I thought it was pretty much the word of the apostles.

Apparently God speaks Arabic. I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say anything different

SC

I know that, you know that and most any thinking person knows that but to many many people, it is the word of God.

You are perfectly correct about the Qur'an. It is supposedly the perfect, unalterable and final word of the god of Abraham. Strange then that the Malaysian government just this week confiscated hundreds of Bibles (again) because it contained 'Allah' instead of 'God'.

Allah is the name that followers of Mohamad (no definitive transliteration) use fr God. For others to use it would be passing themselves off as Mohamedans, and therefore their texts as those of Mohamadans. You and I know that there is only one God, whether he exists or not, and so do our Christian and Mohamadan brothers (and Jewish bretheren too, I believe). We're all fairly square with the idea that there is only one God, and that he's the same bloke.

SC

[pastafarian]

As my name suggests I'm a follower of the one true god, The Flying Spaghetti Monster. For those who haven't accepted him as your lord and saviour, below is something that may persuade you.

On a serious note, I'm 100% atheist. All gods, almost 3000 of them since written history began, have been man-made and the christian god Yahweh is as real as Thor, Zeus, Ra or the noodly FSM. As the great man Hitchens often said, Religion Poisons Everything!!! Loads of videos of Christopher Hitchens on youtube for those unfamiliar with him, well worth a watch/listen.

[notmyself]

You and I know that there is only one God, whether he exists or not, and so do our Christian and Mohamadan brothers (and Jewish bretheren too, I believe). We're all fairly square with the idea that there is only one God, and that he's the same bloke.

SC

Granted it is monotheism and the same god, the god of Abraham. But what of "You shall have no other gods before me", this suggests in no uncertain terms that there is more than one god.

[Rakathaorai]

Dawkins is imbalanced in my opinion ... the scale is stacked!

Stacked to by him vs straight institutionalised religion so it's easy for him to win because teh opposite end just looks ludicrous and in scientific denial.

there are million of people worldwide who believe in spirit and are spiritual but not necessarily religious.

Personally I dislike religion ... it seems to always comes AFTER a spiritual master has walked the planet becomes institutionalised ruled by mean now with people and power corrupts the teachings are somewhat lost and distorted.

I couldn't honestly pick any one level on Dawkin's scale ... my experience doesn't fit there.

I have no issue with science, particularly I love quantum physics.

Ultimately this teaches you that there is Light or lack of Light

or some spiritualists would say Love or Lack of Love

Quantum physics show that the sub atomic particles are photons ( which is light) and the rest is a vacuum (lack of light)

Light & Darkness... ever heard that before?

Some call this Light energy ( which responds to human consciousness and observation according to Quantum Physics) GoD but if you don't like that word reverse the letters and you get doG and everyone loves a dog .... particularly the Vietnamese!

Through active meditation I have experienced and seen high vibrational energy ... this must also be a Light Vibration.

I don't believe it because some guy with a long hair and a beard said I should or because some guy in a frock on a pulpit told me about it ... I experienced myself.

I could teach Dawkin's meditate but I doubt his mind is open enough to truly do it, relax let go and go with the flow ... he would try to over analyse and mentalise everything, but I am open to change...Dawkins are you out there?

[notmyself]

I have no issue with science, particularly I love quantum physics.

Ultimately this teaches you that there is Light or lack of Light

or some spiritualists would say Love or Lack of Love

Quantum physics show that the sub atomic particles are photons ( which is light) and the rest is a vacuum (lack of light)

What?

[greytown]

If you ignore the first five then the remaining commandments are found in many other religions and amount to nothing more than self-preservation.

Yes there appears to be a lot of overlapping dogma between the different religions. I also find interesting that, with the exception of Sikh Hinduism, all the main religions share a nearly identical belief in Heaven and Hell as described in the Bible.

Buddhism has heavens and hells but they are nothing like those found in other religions. The Buddhist hell is just another round of rebirth. I don't understand your remark about 'Sikh Hinduism'. Sikhism and Hinduism are two separate religions with very different beliefs to each other.

I don't claim to have any expertise in world religions, but as I was pondering the Christian concept of Hell I wondered if the other main religions also shared this belief so I did a brief online search. Islam seems to have near identical definitions of Heaven and Hell. Buddhism mentions Hell but with the difference that it is not eternal (but a very long passage nonetheless) Hinduism has apparently two main schools of thought with Sikhism being the one where there is no Hell, only reincarnation. I assume there are many lesser known variations of Buddhism or Hinduism (?)

All the main religions share a similar concept of Heaven / Nirvana from what I gather.

[greytown]

http://youtu.be/oZgT1SRcrKE

I like the Zeitgeist movies. The idea that the mythical Egyptian God Horus was a template that was exported and subsequently adapted to create many other similar mythical Gods is interesting, but many of the "facts" listed in the movie appear to be contestable, though I haven't personally double checked all the points claimed in the movie.

Edited January 5, 2014 by greytown

[StreetCowboy]

You and I know that there is only one God, whether he exists or not, and so do our Christian and Mohamadan brothers (and Jewish bretheren too, I believe). We're all fairly square with the idea that there is only one God, and that he's the same bloke.

SC

Granted it is monotheism and the same god, the god of Abraham. But what of "You shall have no other gods before me", this suggests in no uncertain terms that there is more than one god.

There is no god but God. Thou shalt have no other gods nor worship graven idols. Personally, I share the Mohamedans' concerns about graven images, blokes on crosses, kowtowing to people's mothers and old blokes in beards. If God is everywhere, how can he have a beard? The trimmings would get everywhere as well, and we would be awash in curly grey trimmings, old soup and yesterday's breakfast. Personally, I don't think God, if he existed, wuld be an old beardy white bloke who looked like a refugeee from the Pattaya dark side. You might believe in tree spirits, or dead ancestors, or elephant spirits, river boatmen, thunder or whatever, but they are no more gods than any of the rest of us, and no more worthy of worship.

SC

[notmyself]

All the main religions share a similar concept of Heaven / Nirvana from what I gather.

Very much so. This may give you a hint where they all came from.

Imagine many thousands of years ago. Death was not understood but would have played a huge part in peoples emotional life. They see a body but it is not answering so figure that part of the body has gone somewhere else and is still alive. No reason to think that is true but it dried their eyes to some extent and made them feel better. We are pattern seeking primates with a thirst for knowledge who have an innate NEED for answers. This NEED for answers is so strong that we would rather make up an answer than not have one.

This is where belief in a higher power came from, religion came later when some people realized that that they could exploit this weakness for their own ends.... for power or possessions.

[notmyself]

I like the Zeitgeist movies. The idea that the mythical Egyptian God Horus was a template that was exported and subsequently adapted to create many other similar mythical Gods is interesting, but many of the "facts" listed in the movie appear to be contestable, though I haven't personally double checked all the points claimed in the movie.

Lot's of it has been shown to be untrue. There is, or certainly was, an edited version on YT that has all the misinformation removed. It still paints the same picture though.

[uptheos]

For those who dismiss the Bible as mere mythology with no basis in logic or reality, you might want to ask what exactly is this book trying to sell you? To put it at it's simplest, the Bible is telling us to obey the ten commandments and to not commit any of the seven deadly sins. If we all lived by these rules the world would certainly be a better place.

However the temptations of evil is strong and man's will is weak. We are challenged to keep on the right path despite all the obstacles, temptations, lies and countless false doctrines.

The post modern approach to religion is the "take what you like and dismiss what you don't" as if religion is an open buffet where you can pick and choose what beliefs suit you best personally in a DIY approach to spiritually. It's no surprise that in this buffet the "punishment by eternal damnation" is not a popular dish.

Not before Exodus 20 it isn't.....and we have no idea how long a period that was.

Bit of an after thought?.......personally, I always thought not killing anyone is a bit low at number 6.

[OmegaRacer]

All the main religions share a similar concept of Heaven / Nirvana from what I gather.

Very much so. This may give you a hint where they all came from.

Imagine many thousands of years ago. Death was not understood but would have played a huge part in peoples emotional life. They see a body but it is not answering so figure that part of the body has gone somewhere else and is still alive. No reason to think that is true but it dried their eyes to some extent and made them feel better. We are pattern seeking primates with a thirst for knowledge who have an innate NEED for answers. This NEED for answers is so strong that we would rather make up an answer than not have one.

This is where belief in a higher power came from, religion came later when some people realized that that they could exploit this weakness for their own ends.... for power or possessions.

I'd like to disagree.

I think that at the base of every school of thought or religion, there was spiritual experience. The shamans were the first people to access the spirit world and bring back information. The information the accessed was 'pure', but was seen through minds with limited knowledge of natural phenomena. Try explaining quantum physics to a 3 year old...you'll get the idea of what it is like to translate a spiritual experience into words. You can only approximate it and describe it with parables and allegories.

These are the stories that were handed down from generation to generation, some new information was added, some left out, and then finally got written down by people who never came even close to a spiritual experience. Those are the people who took the stories to be real and created religions.

Shamans used psychotropic plants and concoctions to look behind the veil, but there are other ways also. Sometimes a very strong trauma, a near death experience, meditation of course and yes, psychedelic substances can open the doors of perception.

There is a need for answers and it's imperative to try to find them. But they're not in stories, not in the hands of priests and rabbis, not in books...they're within us.

[anon8]

What is the 'new-fangled stuff' you're talking about?

And what war is there to win? Or is that just an expression?

All this nuclear science stuff. It seems a bit far-fetched to me, but if they can make bombs out of it then I'll place my faith in that, even though I don't really understand it, and I've never actually seen any evidence of it other than people explaining that that is what makes the sun hot.

SC

All this nuclear science seems far fetched? Not really, it is science, physics. It is not something like religeous faith, it cant fetched.

[MrGaoMungGawn]

You and I know that there is only one God, whether he exists or not, and so do our Christian and Mohamadan brothers (and Jewish bretheren too, I believe). We're all fairly square with the idea that there is only one God, and that he's the same bloke.

SC

Granted it is monotheism and the same god, the god of Abraham. But what of "You shall have no other gods before me", this suggests in no uncertain terms that there is more than one god.

There is no god but God. Thou shalt have no other gods nor worship graven idols. Personally, I share the Mohamedans' concerns about graven images, blokes on crosses, kowtowing to people's mothers and old blokes in beards. If God is everywhere, how can he have a beard? The trimmings would get everywhere as well, and we would be awash in curly grey trimmings, old soup and yesterday's breakfast. Personally, I don't think God, if he existed, wuld be an old beardy white bloke who looked like a refugeee from the Pattaya dark side. You might believe in tree spirits, or dead ancestors, or elephant spirits, river boatmen, thunder or whatever, but they are no more gods than any of the rest of us, and no more worthy of worship.

SC

And not only could god not have a beard, but obviously god could not be a duck, either.

With all the quacking, almost everywhere, how could we have any serious thought,

Or humor, or satire, for that matter?

[drx13]

There is an interesting article on BBC News Website (Features and Analysis), today "The Perils of Belief" I recommend it to both sides engaged in this forum topic.

Some comfort for all I believe. The quote I take from it is "The human race is fundamentally flawed"

Coincidentally just watched a moving (to me, as a hard core atheist) BBC Documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtNXvE_rLoE

[notmyself]

There is an interesting article on BBC News Website (Features and Analysis), today "The Perils of Belief" I recommend it to both sides engaged in this forum topic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qng8

iPlayer article works in Thailand.

[pxlgirl]

I'm 100% atheist, but I do understand the mechanisms of the human brain that cause "religious belief". It's not a bad thing per se, as the deity can be pretty much everything and nothing. For instance, someone who believes in fairies, or identifies as a jainist is unlikely to cause mental or physical harm to those who disagree with them or anyone else outside their circles. The more common religions though, would allow children to be burned if someone considers them witches, or would fly planes into buildings along with other scary stuff. It is however quite a complex issue and neurologists took some time to solve most of it. Here's a very good podcast on this subject:

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/podcast/religion-and-the-placebo-effect-with-dr-andy-thomson

As for me personally, I don't give a single sh*t what others "believe" or not believe, as long as they aren't trying to force it down my throat and denounce me for not fitting in their "value and moral" cookie cutter. Being gay or not religious already gives them seizures, it doesn't take much to p*ss them off.

[manarak]

Personally I would be 7 if it's a personal god. There could be something out there we don't know about but it wouldn't be a god (in terms of the way god is normally espoused), don't know what it would be so for that reason, I cannot claim to be a 6.

Interestingly, maybe it's the company I keep but virtually everybody I know is a 6 or 7 Atheist or would be if they bothered to think about it. I have very very few friends that are believers. The reason I started this post is because polls indicate a high level of religiosity, especially in the US but I would say 80 to 90% of my friends and closer acquaintances have no belief in a god of any sort.

How about you? Believer or non believer?

The scale is totally nonsense.

The opposite of a believer is not an atheist, but an agnostic is. And no, the agnostic does not believe that existence and non-existence of god are equiprobable, because there is no way of knowing the odds. The agnostic simply doesn't believe anything.

The atheist is 100% sure that a god doesn't exist, so he also believes something that cannot be proven.

[manarak]

I'm 100% atheist, but I do understand the mechanisms of the human brain that cause "religious belief". It's not a bad thing per se, as the deity can be pretty much everything and nothing. For instance, someone who believes in fairies, or identifies as a jainist is unlikely to cause mental or physical harm to those who disagree with them or anyone else outside their circles. The more common religions though, would allow children to be burned if someone considers them witches, or would fly planes into buildings along with other scary stuff. It is however quite a complex issue and neurologists took some time to solve most of it. Here's a very good podcast on this subject:

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/podcast/religion-and-the-placebo-effect-with-dr-andy-thomson

As for me personally, I don't give a single sh*t what others "believe" or not believe, as long as they aren't trying to force it down my throat and denounce me for not fitting in their "value and moral" cookie cutter. Being gay or not religious already gives them seizures, it doesn't take much to p*ss them off.

if you are an atheist, you are a believer too.

[sustento]

I'm 100% atheist, but I do understand the mechanisms of the human brain that cause "religious belief". It's not a bad thing per se, as the deity can be pretty much everything and nothing. For instance, someone who believes in fairies, or identifies as a jainist is unlikely to cause mental or physical harm to those who disagree with them or anyone else outside their circles. The more common religions though, would allow children to be burned if someone considers them witches, or would fly planes into buildings along with other scary stuff. It is however quite a complex issue and neurologists took some time to solve most of it. Here's a very good podcast on this subject:

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/podcast/religion-and-the-placebo-effect-with-dr-andy-thomson

As for me personally, I don't give a single sh*t what others "believe" or not believe, as long as they aren't trying to force it down my throat and denounce me for not fitting in their "value and moral" cookie cutter. Being gay or not religious already gives them seizures, it doesn't take much to p*ss them off.

if you are an atheist, you are a believer too.

If I don't believe in the great flying spaghetti monster what do I believe in?

[canman]

Paraphrasing a quote I saw sometime back:

If one cannot live a moral life; if one does not know right from wrong. It is not religion they need but rather empathy.