Are you an Atheist/Believer?

[StreetCowboy]

My apologies for the double post.

I watched the Glasgow Toulon game at the weekend, and Glasgow could reasonably have felt unlucky in not scraping a draw against the European Champions - which would not have been sufficient to see them into Quarter-Final European rugby. Despite the faith and confidence of their supporters on their way to Thormond Park that Edinburgh could repeat the defeat they handed to Munster at Murrayfield, they were not able to win away against the Pro12 leaders, and thus ended Scotland involvement in European club rugby.

I don't see that as a betrayal by God; God would only help us win if we had done our part, and been the better team, played betterm and scored more points. Too many people look to their imagination of God to cover up for their own ignorance and incompetence. If it was the will of God, then we should've played better. I think you have to look to the Fijian Sevens to see what God can do on the rugby field

SC

Edited January 20, 2014 by StreetCowboy

[Neeranam]

It irritates me to see atheists so unhappy, closed minded and ignorant.

I have no idea what you mean by that.

Have you been drinking?

Actually, I've read that Atheism could be a mental disorder.

Studies have shown that Atheist are more prone to symptoms such as depression and suicide.

[Neeranam]

They're not in the World Cup, are they?

Not the FIFA one in Brazil, no. I don't think we should limit our dreams.

SC

I was sure we'd win it in 1978. We were by far the best team.

[Nayet]

It irritates me to see atheists so unhappy, closed minded and ignorant.

I have no idea what you mean by that.

Have you been drinking?

Actually, I've read that Atheism could be a mental disorder.

Studies have shown that Atheist are more prone to symptoms such as depression and suicide.

Mental disorder, eh? I wonder if God is aware of this? If yes, I wonder why he does not cure them of the very thing that through no fault of their own is going to put them in hell to burn for all eternity.

[StreetCowboy]

They're not in the World Cup, are they?

I was sure we'd win it in 1978. We were by far the best team.

Not the FIFA one in Brazil, no. I don't think we should limit our dreams.

SC

EDIT: My apologies for buggering about with the quotes...

We should've put our trust in God.

God favours the best team, if they play their best.

I watched Fiji win the World Cup in Hong Kong in 2005 against New Zealand, despite being pushed all the way in the hardest game of the tournament against England in the Semi Final.

The less said about the hammerings that we received in the final game of the pool round against New Zealand, the Calcutta Cup that night, and our Quarter Final against England the next morning, the better. But we can still rise now....

Waisale Serevi is an example of a religious man that I would hold up to all as a role model.

SC

Edited January 20, 2014 by StreetCowboy

[notmyself]

Studies have shown that Atheist are more prone to symptoms such as depression and suicide.

Could be a good read, I presume you have the study or at least have an inkling where to find it.

You might find this very extensive study which suggests otherwise of interest.

Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies

http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.pdf

Edited January 20, 2014 by notmyself

[drx13]

Boxer enters the ring crossing himself.

Man to priest "What does that mean ?"

Priest "Nothing if he can't box"

[notmyself]

Boxer enters the ring crossing himself.

Man to priest "What does that mean ?"

Priest "Nothing if he can't box"

Also means nothing if he can.

[StreetCowboy]

Out of interest, if you were a seventeenth century painter, how would you portray Him who was ancient, all-knowing, wise, paternal and kind?

Perhaps the reason that their paintings don't correspond with our image of God relates more to their limitations of pictorial imagination than their understanding of God.

"Go on, Michelangelo, paint us a painting of God."

"Well, it's not so easy, your immense and eminent patronage. He's everywhere, and omnipresent. and eternally ancient, not just a wee bit ancient and omnipresent like your interfering old grandfather. It would be better to paint him as a whitewash of the rays of the sun, the gleam of the stars and the beams of the moon"

"Dinnae gie' us that astrological pish, Michelangelo, Ah want a painting ae God, and there's ten blokes'll dae that and the Sistene Chapel in a' for less than you're quoting, and two horny divvils tae boot"

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Out of interest, if you were a seventeenth century painter, how would you portray Him who was ancient, all-knowing, wise, paternal and kind?

Perhaps the reason that their paintings don't correspond with our image of God relates more to their limitations of pictorial imagination than their understanding of God.

"Go on, Michelangelo, paint us a painting of God."

"Well, it's not so easy, your immense and eminent patronage. He's everywhere, and omnipresent. and eternally ancient, not just a wee bit ancient and omnipresent like your interfering old grandfather. It would be better to paint him as a whitewash of the rays of the sun, the gleam of the stars and the beams of the moon"

"Dinnae gie' us that astrological pish, Michelangelo, Ah want a painting ae God, and there's ten blokes'll dae that and the Sistene Chapel in a' for less than you're quoting, and two horny divvils tae boot"

From this we can deduce either that the Pope was an aggressive and confrontational Glaswegian or that he was really an accomplished linguist, capable of addressing Michelangelo, an accomplished Glaswegian painter and decorator, in his own language.

[drx13]

Are there any Mormons out there who would like to join this topic to liven it up ?

[sirineou]

Please tell me your credentials and what makes you think you are more intelligent than Deepak Chopra

I am certainly not smarter than Deepak, if I was I too would be earning a pretty good living out of BS

[StreetCowboy]

Out of interest, if you were a seventeenth century painter, how would you portray Him who was ancient, all-knowing, wise, paternal and kind?

Perhaps the reason that their paintings don't correspond with our image of God relates more to their limitations of pictorial imagination than their understanding of God.

"Go on, Michelangelo, paint us a painting of God."

"Well, it's not so easy, your immense and eminent patronage. He's everywhere, and omnipresent. and eternally ancient, not just a wee bit ancient and omnipresent like your interfering old grandfather. It would be better to paint him as a whitewash of the rays of the sun, the gleam of the stars and the beams of the moon"

"Dinnae gie' us that astrological pish, Michelangelo, Ah want a painting ae God, and there's ten blokes'll dae that and the Sistene Chapel in a' for less than you're quoting, and two horny divvils tae boot"

From this we can deduce either that the Pope was an aggressive and confrontational Glaswegian or that he was really an accomplished linguist, capable of addressing Michelangelo, an accomplished Glaswegian painter and decorator, in his own language.

When we try to illustrate or explain, we are always bound by the limits of our own mundane imagination, language and artistic talent.

[Bkungbank]

I believe when i watch the sun and the moon, not too far or the close to the sun makes all the living being sustainable food chain for human and animal in order to survived on this beautiful planet. I am Buddhist but I believed in Him.

[boomerangutang]

I'm sure many bats don't believe in the moon as they have never seen it. Other bats believe as they have other senses that feel the moon.

Different creatures have different senses and members of the same species can have senses that vary.

Those humans who haven't seen or experienced God are lack some kind of sense. 6th sense perhaps?

There are 'worlds' beyond what most of us can perceive and we can never prove them just as one bat cannot prove to another that there is a moon. The bats that go on about there being no moon are wasting their time. They should try to develop their missing sense and experience the joy of the moon. Instead of trying to boost their egos by insisting that they who are senseless are in some way more intelligent than the bats with more senses.

All bats are totally unaware of Uranus, like we as a species are totally unaware of something.

When something can't be proven, it's made in to a myth. In a word: metaphysics. Religions are just like metaphysics. Both have foundations built from concepts that can't be proven or disproven scientifically. Homeopathy, aliens, crop circles, astrology, conspiracy theories (Twin towers blown up by Bush Jr./Israelis/CIA, etc), Bigfoot, Loch Ness monster, pyramid power, palm readings, paranormal, ghosts, and much more are built on similarly flimsy foundations. Even when things, like crop circles are proven to be man-made hoaxes, there are always die-hards who refuse to see it as balogna.

God exists only because people, as a species, want there to be a higher authority, someone/something that's creating and manipulating everything, including emotions. God differs from nature, in that God has intent (He's angry, He's benevolent, He's judgemental, ad nauseum), whereas in nature, things unfold in natural ways. A severe storm is not 'angry' or 'vengeful' ....instead it happens as the result of natural phenomena. God fearing people can't see that. They need to personify/personalize phenomena. When birds are chirping around you while you're sitting in a park, they're not singing lovely songs in praise of you or for your benefit - they're doing their bird thing - mating calls, alarm calls, whatever. They don't even notice people except to the extent you might be a threat or giving them food.

Here's a web page which proves that: There is Another God Besides Allah, and Her Name is Gertrude

Edited January 21, 2014 by boomerangutang

[canuckamuck]

quote "So I'm not certain how to begin a defense of the dogma of basic Christianity other than by saying Jesus Christ was a real person. That means that he was born, lived on earth and was killed in the manner described in the bible. He was a great teacher, healer, miracle worker and said he was the son of God. Those I do believe. I believe the accounts provided by eyewitnesses."

There were lots of Jesus figures with similar tales

see http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/

It scares me that people with the above opinion have a vote and the right to raise children. That is one of the reasons I came to Thailand. Not that I would be in favor of taking the right away but I had to leave.

You know the people who say if you don't like it get out. Well I did.

in regards to your last post. here is an example of someone being insulting. Guess what? It was you.

I told you what was in my heart. The poster believes something that has no basis in fact. That to me is scary. So I left. I have little faith in a continent that believes in institutionalized fairy tales. That is what I believe and I told you what I did about it. That is not insulting. I think people who believe in fairy tales (you may call it faith) should not be allowed to have sharp objects. I didn't tell you that you can't or that I would support anyone taking away your perceived rights. I just don't want to be around. I'm polite. I am not insulting and I got out of Dodge. The people in Thailand are much more logical, rational and believable.

Wow, you left North America for Thailand because you admire Thais for their logic. You can't live in a continent that believes in institutionalized fairy tales so you came to Thailand?

I see there is nothing wrong with your powers of deduction. Carry on.

[bikerlou47]

7

Sent from my iPod touch using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thailiketoo]

I told you what was in my heart. The poster believes something that has no basis in fact. That to me is scary. So I left. I have little faith in a continent that believes in institutionalized fairy tales. That is what I believe and I told you what I did about it. That is not insulting. I think people who believe in fairy tales (you may call it faith) should not be allowed to have sharp objects. I didn't tell you that you can't or that I would support anyone taking away your perceived rights. I just don't want to be around. I'm polite. I am not insulting and I got out of Dodge. The people in Thailand are much more logical, rational and believable.

Wow, you left North America for Thailand because you admire Thais for their logic. You can't live in a continent that believes in institutionalized fairy tales so you came to Thailand?

I see there is nothing wrong with your powers of deduction. Carry on.

You are making fun of me because that is your culture's way of dealing with failure (being wrong). I find that annoying as it occurs on a regular basis in the West.

When I'm stopped at a traffic light in the West but there is no reason to stop I still have to remain stopped. Why is that?

When the customers are off work in the evening and weekends why are banks in the West closed in the evening and weekends?

When the patients are off work in the evening and weekends why are doctor's offices closed evenings and weekends in the West?

Sex is a normal desire in every healthy male why isn't there a brothel on every street corner in the West?

I could go on but you get the idea.

I told you the truth and you mocked me.

I didn't mock you in return. I gave you logical reasons why you were wrong. So, in addition to turning the other cheek and not replying in kind, I educated you. Now is that more like what your Christian God would want you to do? Or would he suggest mocking me?

[Berkshire]

I told you what was in my heart. The poster believes something that has no basis in fact. That to me is scary. So I left. I have little faith in a continent that believes in institutionalized fairy tales. That is what I believe and I told you what I did about it. That is not insulting. I think people who believe in fairy tales (you may call it faith) should not be allowed to have sharp objects. I didn't tell you that you can't or that I would support anyone taking away your perceived rights. I just don't want to be around. I'm polite. I am not insulting and I got out of Dodge. The people in Thailand are much more logical, rational and believable.

Wow, you left North America for Thailand because you admire Thais for their logic. You can't live in a continent that believes in institutionalized fairy tales so you came to Thailand?

I see there is nothing wrong with your powers of deduction. Carry on.

That's rather condescending of you. So you clearly believe that these little brown people can never be as logical as the highly developed western race. That's mighty white of you. As for Thailiketoo's statement regarding "institutionalized fairy tales," I'd say that's a pretty good description of western religion.

[Neeranam]

God exists only because people, as a species, want there to be a higher authority, someone/something that's creating and manipulating everything, including emotions. God differs from nature, in that God has intent (He's angry, He's benevolent, He's judgemental, ad nauseum), whereas in nature, things unfold in natural ways. A severe storm is not 'angry' or 'vengeful' ....instead it happens as the result of natural phenomena. God fearing people can't see that. They need to personify/personalize phenomena. When birds are chirping around you while you're sitting in a park, they're not singing lovely songs in praise of you or for your benefit - they're doing their bird thing - mating calls, alarm calls, whatever. They don't even notice people except to the extent you might be a threat or giving them food.

I agree with you that God exists but disagree with your reasoning as why he/she exists.

I'd like to ask an Atheist what they think of Buddhism and in particular what H.H the Dalai Lama says. Do you think you are wiser than a being who has been incarnated 14 times?

[thailiketoo]

God exists only because people, as a species, want there to be a higher authority, someone/something that's creating and manipulating everything, including emotions. God differs from nature, in that God has intent (He's angry, He's benevolent, He's judgemental, ad nauseum), whereas in nature, things unfold in natural ways. A severe storm is not 'angry' or 'vengeful' ....instead it happens as the result of natural phenomena. God fearing people can't see that. They need to personify/personalize phenomena. When birds are chirping around you while you're sitting in a park, they're not singing lovely songs in praise of you or for your benefit - they're doing their bird thing - mating calls, alarm calls, whatever. They don't even notice people except to the extent you might be a threat or giving them food.

I agree with you that God exists but disagree with your reasoning as why he/she exists.

I'd like to ask an Atheist what they think of Buddhism and in particular what H.H the Dalai Lama says. Do you think you are wiser than a being who has been incarnated 14 times?

Buddhism eh? What do I think about it? I like the lyrics but it's hard to dance to. Do I think I am wiser than a being who thinks they have been incarnated 14 times. Yes. Not only me but my dog too. Same can be said for the Pope and his newly appointed cardinal who thinks, " homosexuality as a "defect" that can be corrected with treatment,"

http://news.yahoo.com/spain-39-cardinal-says-homosexuality-39-defect-39-135809123.html

Not only am I smarter but nicer too.

[RandomSand]

Do I think I am wiser than a being who thinks they have been incarnated 14 times. Yes. Not only me but my dog too. Same can be said for the Pope and his newly appointed cardinal who thinks, " homosexuality as a "defect" that can be corrected with treatment,"

Well homosexuality isn't very rational.

The rational man knows that the reason he desires to release his sperm inside a woman is to fertilise her egg.

For what valid reason does a homosexual man seek to release his sperm inside another man ?

If you'd argue that the reasons, for homosexual relations, are to reach orgasm and to give each other pleasure; then I ask you this...

If it's purely about stimulation of the physical senses, then logically, straight men would introduce their sons to such pleasures at the earliest opportunity.

Do you think this appropriate ?

Edited January 21, 2014 by RandomSand

[canuckamuck]

I told you what was in my heart. The poster believes something that has no basis in fact. That to me is scary. So I left. I have little faith in a continent that believes in institutionalized fairy tales. That is what I believe and I told you what I did about it. That is not insulting. I think people who believe in fairy tales (you may call it faith) should not be allowed to have sharp objects. I didn't tell you that you can't or that I would support anyone taking away your perceived rights. I just don't want to be around. I'm polite. I am not insulting and I got out of Dodge. The people in Thailand are much more logical, rational and believable.

Wow, you left North America for Thailand because you admire Thais for their logic. You can't live in a continent that believes in institutionalized fairy tales so you came to Thailand?

I see there is nothing wrong with your powers of deduction. Carry on.

You are making fun of me because that is your culture's way of dealing with failure (being wrong). I find that annoying as it occurs on a regular basis in the West.

When I'm stopped at a traffic light in the West but there is no reason to stop I still have to remain stopped. Why is that?

When the customers are off work in the evening and weekends why are banks in the West closed in the evening and weekends?

When the patients are off work in the evening and weekends why are doctor's offices closed evenings and weekends in the West?

Sex is a normal desire in every healthy male why isn't there a brothel on every street corner in the West?

I could go on but you get the idea.

I told you the truth and you mocked me.

I didn't mock you in return. I gave you logical reasons why you were wrong. So, in addition to turning the other cheek and not replying in kind, I educated you. Now is that more like what your Christian God would want you to do? Or would he suggest mocking me?

It is very hard to judge how someone will reply to a rebuttal. I found your logic to be unusual and pointed it out. This is how things go on forums. Remember you are the one who said that theists shouldn't be allowed to have children or use sharp objects. If you don't like the give and take you should refrain from posting. Nothing wrong with healthy debate, I apologize if I over stepped.

[boomerangutang]

God exists only because people, as a species, want there to be a higher authority, someone/something that's creating and manipulating everything, including emotions. God differs from nature, in that God has intent (He's angry, He's benevolent, He's judgemental, ad nauseum), whereas in nature, things unfold in natural ways. A severe storm is not 'angry' or 'vengeful' ....instead it happens as the result of natural phenomena. God fearing people can't see that. They need to personify/personalize phenomena. When birds are chirping around you while you're sitting in a park, they're not singing lovely songs in praise of you or for your benefit - they're doing their bird thing - mating calls, alarm calls, whatever. They don't even notice people except to the extent you might be a threat or giving them food.

I agree with you that God exists but disagree with your reasoning as why he/she exists.

I'd like to ask an Atheist what they think of Buddhism and in particular what H.H the Dalai Lama says. Do you think you are wiser than a being who has been incarnated 14 times?

Are we going to have a pissing contest to see who thinks they've been incarnated the most times? Being incarnated, in Buddhist belief system, means having to come back - to do it right (attain enlightenment) a final time. I'm friends with a Tibetan Rinpoche whose lineage can be traced further back than the Dalai Lama's. Does that make him wiser than the D.L?

I acknowledge there are millions of people who will say they believe that God exists. There are also millions of people who will say that the Great Wall of China can be seen from outer space (it can't). There are also hundreds of millions of Chinese who believe that the Chinese people are direct descendants of a type of Homo Habilis (Peking Man) who originated in China - and didn't descend from early homonids who came out of Africa 115k years ago. Interesting though, that a Chinese researcher in China, who wanted to prove the previous assertion was true, actually found out it's scientifically wrong. How? you may ask. The scientist looked closely at DNA from hundreds of Chinese citizens from all parts of China, and found that every one, 100%, had a genetic marker which coincided with the early African exodus of 115k years ago. My point here, is that even if tens of millions of people believe something passionately - that doesn't necessarily make it true.

Edited January 21, 2014 by boomerangutang

[Neeranam]

God exists only because people, as a species, want there to be a higher authority, someone/something that's creating and manipulating everything, including emotions. God differs from nature, in that God has intent (He's angry, He's benevolent, He's judgemental, ad nauseum), whereas in nature, things unfold in natural ways. A severe storm is not 'angry' or 'vengeful' ....instead it happens as the result of natural phenomena. God fearing people can't see that. They need to personify/personalize phenomena. When birds are chirping around you while you're sitting in a park, they're not singing lovely songs in praise of you or for your benefit - they're doing their bird thing - mating calls, alarm calls, whatever. They don't even notice people except to the extent you might be a threat or giving them food.

I agree with you that God exists but disagree with your reasoning as why he/she exists.

I'd like to ask an Atheist what they think of Buddhism and in particular what H.H the Dalai Lama says. Do you think you are wiser than a being who has been incarnated 14 times?

Are we going to have a pissing contest to see who thinks they've been incarnated the most times? Being incarnated, in Buddhist belief system, means having to come back - to do it right (attain enlightenment) a final time. I'm friends with a Tibetan Rinpoche whose lineage can be traced further back than the Dalai Lama's. Does that make him wiser than the D.L?

WHat on earth would you and a Tibetan Rinpoche have in common?

Do you claim to have no soul?

[Neeranam]

God exists only because people, as a species, want there to be a higher authority, someone/something that's creating and manipulating everything, including emotions. God differs from nature, in that God has intent (He's angry, He's benevolent, He's judgemental, ad nauseum), whereas in nature, things unfold in natural ways. A severe storm is not 'angry' or 'vengeful' ....instead it happens as the result of natural phenomena. God fearing people can't see that. They need to personify/personalize phenomena. When birds are chirping around you while you're sitting in a park, they're not singing lovely songs in praise of you or for your benefit - they're doing their bird thing - mating calls, alarm calls, whatever. They don't even notice people except to the extent you might be a threat or giving them food.

I agree with you that God exists but disagree with your reasoning as why he/she exists.

I'd like to ask an Atheist what they think of Buddhism and in particular what H.H the Dalai Lama says. Do you think you are wiser than a being who has been incarnated 14 times?

Buddhism eh? What do I think about it? I like the lyrics but it's hard to dance to. Do I think I am wiser than a being who thinks they have been incarnated 14 times. Yes. Not only me but my dog too. Same can be said for the Pope and his newly appointed cardinal who thinks, " homosexuality as a "defect" that can be corrected with treatment,"

http://news.yahoo.com/spain-39-cardinal-says-homosexuality-39-defect-39-135809123.html

Not only am I smarter but nicer too.

Unbelievable arrogance. Do you really believe you are wiser than these two spiritual leaders?

You'll be telling us next that you are more spiritual.

I think you are deluded dude.

[rgs2001uk]

God exists only because people, as a species, want there to be a higher authority, someone/something that's creating and manipulating everything, including emotions. God differs from nature, in that God has intent (He's angry, He's benevolent, He's judgemental, ad nauseum), whereas in nature, things unfold in natural ways. A severe storm is not 'angry' or 'vengeful' ....instead it happens as the result of natural phenomena. God fearing people can't see that. They need to personify/personalize phenomena. When birds are chirping around you while you're sitting in a park, they're not singing lovely songs in praise of you or for your benefit - they're doing their bird thing - mating calls, alarm calls, whatever. They don't even notice people except to the extent you might be a threat or giving them food.

I agree with you that God exists but disagree with your reasoning as why he/she exists.

I'd like to ask an Atheist what they think of Buddhism and in particular what H.H the Dalai Lama says. Do you think you are wiser than a being who has been incarnated 14 times?

As an atheist, more than happy to answer.

I think nothing of Buddhism, its just another religion to me.

The thoughts of the Dalai Lama are just that, his thoughts, they dont impact on my life one iota.

[Neeranam]

God exists only because people, as a species, want there to be a higher authority, someone/something that's creating and manipulating everything, including emotions. God differs from nature, in that God has intent (He's angry, He's benevolent, He's judgemental, ad nauseum), whereas in nature, things unfold in natural ways. A severe storm is not 'angry' or 'vengeful' ....instead it happens as the result of natural phenomena. God fearing people can't see that. They need to personify/personalize phenomena. When birds are chirping around you while you're sitting in a park, they're not singing lovely songs in praise of you or for your benefit - they're doing their bird thing - mating calls, alarm calls, whatever. They don't even notice people except to the extent you might be a threat or giving them food.

I agree with you that God exists but disagree with your reasoning as why he/she exists.

I'd like to ask an Atheist what they think of Buddhism and in particular what H.H the Dalai Lama says. Do you think you are wiser than a being who has been incarnated 14 times?

As an atheist, more than happy to answer.

I think nothing of Buddhism, its just another religion to me.

The thoughts of the Dalai Lama are just that, his thoughts, they dont impact on my life one iota.

Thanks for the reply but you didn't answer the question. Do you think you are wiser than the Dalai Lama? I use this example as I have met him and he seems very wise and enlightened.

[wym]

So now we're bashing gays as if that has anything to do with spirituality.

Almost everyone thinks their way is right, they are wiser than others, those that think differently than themselves are stupid or deluded.

Obviously people that have no respect for religious beliefs aren't going to have any respect for religious leaders no matter how they go to that position.

Looks to me like this thread has very much run it's course, how about we just let it die, the same topic will be raised again within a week or two. . .

[Neeranam]

So now we're bashing gays as if that has anything to do with spirituality.

Almost everyone thinks their way is right, they are wiser than others, those that think differently than themselves are stupid or deluded.

Obviously people that have no respect for religious beliefs aren't going to have any respect for religious leaders no matter how they go to that position.

Looks to me like this thread has very much run it's course, how about we just let it die, the same topic will be raised again within a week or two. . .

I think you have been incarnated. You seem very knowledgeable and wise on TV affairs. How long have you been a member?