Investigations show shot that killed Thai police fired from gate : CAPO

[webfact]

STADIUM CLASH
Investigations show shot that killed police fired from gate : CAPO
The Nation


Caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra take photos with crowd-control police at the Government Complex.

BANGKOK: -- The Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order (CAPO) revealed the progress of its investigations yesterday into two killings - the fatal shootings of a police officer and a protester - during clashes on December 26 between anti-government protesters and the police, at the Bangkok Youth Centre, also known as the Thai-Japanese Stadium.

CAPO said in the case of Pol Sen Sgt Major Narong Pitisit, police had found the shell of a 32-calibre bullet at Gate 3 of the stadium where the registration of electoral candidates took place last week.

The angle of the bullet as it entered Narong's chest confirmed that the shot was fired from the direction of the gate. The bullet had entered the right side of Narong's chest as he squatted behind a tree, according to a police witness.

Investigations into the shooting of protester Wasu Suchantabut also uncovered a shell, but the centre was unable to confirm it was from the bullet that killed him, as Wasu's body was not sent to the Police Hospital for an autopsy. Police are working closely with relatives of Wasu to solve the case.

Meanwhile, national police chief Pol Gen Adul Saengsingkaew defended the actions of police on the the day, while also acknowledging that plainclothes police were ordered up to the roof of a three-floor Labour Ministry building near the stadium.

Adul said officers were positioned there to throw and fire different types of tear gas at protesters, in order to prevent them from obstructing candidates who wanted to register for the election.

The measures were necessary, he said, adding that police did not use excessive force. He claimed the sound of shots reported by witnesses was actually the sound of firecrackers being set off by protesters. A 15-year-old minor was also arrested by the police and confessed to being hired for Bt500 to set off firecrackers, he said.

Adul also acknowledged that officers had vandalised a protester's vehicle during the protests, but insisted that police were only armed with batons, shields, tear gas and rubber bullets.

Deputy national police Commissioner Pol Gen Worapong Chewprecha was asked why police did not withdraw in the afternoon. He responded by saying that police had a duty to protect the stadium premises until 4.30pm, when Election Commission staff and other officials planned to leave.

As a result of the police action, eight more parties were able to register as candidates in the afternoon, bringing the total of party-list registration to 30 candidates, he said.

He also defended officers who used rubber bullets, saying they were well trained. He said it was clear on the day that protesters were intent on obstructing the electoral process.


-- The Nation 2014-01-04

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

After last weeks lies and with Thaksin's cousin as head who can trust CAPO?

[Bluespunk]

After last weeks lies and with Thaksin's cousin as head who can trust CAPO?

No one.

[EricBerg]

If CAPO says so then it's not true.

[Emptyset]

If CAPO says so then it's not true.

People said that about CRES in 2010. Of course, a lot of what they said was actually true, just mixed with a lot of falsehoods. You have to judge each thing they say on its own merits. Evidence here supports CAPO, see this: http://asiancorrespondent.com/117827/who-were-the-men-on-the-roof-of-the-ministry-of-labor/ ... Rounds were being fired at police from the direction of Gate 3. It's not in doubt.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Emptyset

[Emptyset]

After last weeks lies and with Thaksin's cousin as head who can trust CAPO?

No one.

Why would you trust either side? As I say above, you go with the evidence. And Surapong didn't say anything about this case, that I can remember did he? I can't really remember too many egregious lies coming from him in the past few weeks, tbh. No doubt there have been some porkies. But nothing that stands out as much as, say, insisting that 200,000 or so people are actually 6 million and that this has been proven by 'academics'. Chalerm on the other hand has come out with loads of his typical nonsensical drivel, yes, but he isn't CAPO.

The statement CAPO initially made about the case was just plain dumb though. I'm not saying Adun necessarily more honest than the rest, although it certainly appears that way. Even Veera in the Post has praised his honesty. But regardless he's definitely smarter than the other people who've spoken from the Government side. He waited until they'd compiled evidence before making a statement. Took journalists up to the roof of the Labour Ministry building to prove that police couldn't have shot and killed Narong from up there. And admitted that police did in fact break the van windows. It was obviously them and Adun must've realized it did nothing for police credibility to deny the obvious. Top marks to Adun, shame about the rest of them...

This btw is right in the direction that police firing from the Labour Ministry would've had to fire from:

Compare with the map:

The building on the left in the first picture is the white building to the right of the Labour Ministry building police were stationed in on the map. As you can see, it's actually higher than the top of the Labour Ministry building (three storey) and blocks the direction they would've had to fire in.

Anyone who still believes police could've done it from there is... well... too far gone to see reason.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Emptyset

[ginjag]

Fired from gate--not a gun ???.............maybe from Bang Pa In. or ????

[Prbkk]

I am grateful to the police for doing their best to protect citizens and residents against these mobs. It 's very easy to criticise , but they have a difficult job and are doing it well. I am glad the PM has acknowledged that. Unlike many of the posters here, I have never had a problem with the police. In my limited dealings with them, always polite and courteous and do their best to assist.

[Valentine]

Initial reports indicated the angle of the bullet came from higher up so it seems that squatting behind a tree takes care of the idea it came from ground level. My question is how do they know he was squatting? Also why put police on a roof where they cannot actually see the protesters?

[ginjag]

I am grateful to the police for doing their best to protect citizens and residents against these mobs. It 's very easy to criticise , but they have a difficult job and are doing it well. I am glad the PM has acknowledged that. Unlike many of the posters here, I have never had a problem with the police. In my limited dealings with them, always polite and courteous and do their best to assist.

You live where, some remote island ???? sometimes citizens have to protect themselves from these police mobs. Nice crawling groveling post.

[Emptyset]

The one thing I'm not really convinced about from the police explanation is that they still seem to be claiming protesters had gone into a building sometime during the early afternoon and fired on people from up there (supposedly the building marked top right). Judging by this video, the shots sound too close to be fired by the protesters.

Although police didn't seem to be issued with firearms that fire live bullets (Michael Yon says 'practically everything' he saw 'captured from police was non-lethal), it would not be a surprise if at least one of them had retained a pistol and fired back at protesters.

[ManopY]

Do not forget that MANY other peoples where injured by real bullet (but no other died yet)!

Look at this VDO and those pictures!

On the 3rd picture you can see clearly rifles!!!

Click on the pictures to zoom!

http://youtu.be/WvcO0qkOiI8

[Emptyset]

Initial reports indicated the angle of the bullet came from higher up so it seems that squatting behind a tree takes care of the idea it came from ground level. My question is how do they know he was squatting? Also why put police on a roof where they cannot actually see the protesters?

The police could see the protesters who were attacking the Labour Ministry and the stadium from the other side. Gate 5 I think. That is why they were placed there. Read the piece posted above on Bangkok Pundit. I'm skeptical about these initial reports that claim he was shot from higher ground. The only ones claiming that appear to be protester leaders and their supporters. If he was behind a tree, he could still have left some of his body exposed to the gunman depending on where he exactly was.

In fact if the 'tree' he was crouching behind is the tree we see him behind him where he's being helped by fellow cops at 3:47, then it wouldn't offer much protection at all. But can these cops really be so sure where he was standing or crouching? They're rushing around in a panic at this point judging by the video...

Edited January 4, 2014 by Emptyset

[noikrit]

It's a shame that no Autopsy was performed ????? .... I mean wouldn't it have been a bit of investigative work ??? Now they have a shell , but only assumptions .... Poor effort from the deceased policemans comrades....

[scorecard]

After last weeks lies and with Thaksin's cousin as head who can trust CAPO?

No one.

Why would you trust either side? As I say above, you go with the evidence. And Surapong didn't say anything about this case, that I can remember did he? I can't really remember too many egregious lies coming from him in the past few weeks, tbh. No doubt there have been some porkies. But nothing that stands out as much as, say, insisting that 200,000 or so people are actually 6 million and that this has been proven by 'academics'. Chalerm on the other hand has come out with loads of his typical nonsensical drivel, yes, but he isn't CAPO.

The statement CAPO initially made about the case was just plain dumb though. I'm not saying Adun necessarily more honest than the rest, although it certainly appears that way. Even Veera in the Post has praised his honesty. But regardless he's definitely smarter than the other people who've spoken from the Government side. He waited until they'd compiled evidence before making a statement. Took journalists up to the roof of the Labour Ministry building to prove that police couldn't have shot and killed Narong from up there. And admitted that police did in fact break the van windows. It was obviously them and Adun must've realized it did nothing for police credibility to deny the obvious. Top marks to Adun, shame about the rest of them...

This btw is right in the direction that police firing from the Labour Ministry would've had to fire from:

Compare with the map:

The building on the left in the first picture is the white building to the right of the Labour Ministry building police were stationed in on the map. As you can see, it's actually higher than the top of the Labour Ministry building (three storey) and blocks the direction they would've had to fire in.

Anyone who still believes police could've done it from there is... well... too far gone to see reason.

IS CAPO now also an actual investigation agency? Is this their remit? Do they have the trained and experienced staff to do this?

[smedly]

They lie about lying, but lie about lying about lying. And that’s the honest truth

Nothing these people say can be trusted - you can tell 1000 truths but tell one lie and they all become lies

[bunny11kk]

CAPO is professional liar. Wherever they claimed has been untrue so far. What creditability it has left But there is one thing they are very good! They have shameless thick skin!

Edited January 4, 2014 by bunny11kk

[gerry1011]

Ah ah... So it is really a protester that shot that poor policeman !!!

Thugs!

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Emptyset]

After last weeks lies and with Thaksin's cousin as head who can trust CAPO?

No one.

Why would you trust either side? As I say above, you go with the evidence. And Surapong didn't say anything about this case, that I can remember did he? I can't really remember too many egregious lies coming from him in the past few weeks, tbh. No doubt there have been some porkies. But nothing that stands out as much as, say, insisting that 200,000 or so people are actually 6 million and that this has been proven by 'academics'. Chalerm on the other hand has come out with loads of his typical nonsensical drivel, yes, but he isn't CAPO.

The statement CAPO initially made about the case was just plain dumb though. I'm not saying Adun necessarily more honest than the rest, although it certainly appears that way. Even Veera in the Post has praised his honesty. But regardless he's definitely smarter than the other people who've spoken from the Government side. He waited until they'd compiled evidence before making a statement. Took journalists up to the roof of the Labour Ministry building to prove that police couldn't have shot and killed Narong from up there. And admitted that police did in fact break the van windows. It was obviously them and Adun must've realized it did nothing for police credibility to deny the obvious. Top marks to Adun, shame about the rest of them...

This btw is right in the direction that police firing from the Labour Ministry would've had to fire from:

Compare with the map:

The building on the left in the first picture is the white building to the right of the Labour Ministry building police were stationed in on the map. As you can see, it's actually higher than the top of the Labour Ministry building (three storey) and blocks the direction they would've had to fire in.

Anyone who still believes police could've done it from there is... well... too far gone to see reason.

IS CAPO now also an actual investigation agency? Is this their remit? Do they have the trained and experienced staff to do this?

The explanations are coming from Adun and police now, not CAPO. Like I say, I've got my doubts over some of what they've said (e.g. Wasu being shot by protesters from a building) but the evidence supports the fact that Narong was shot from the direction of protesters coming from Gate 3. If it wasn't them, it could only have been someone in the flats directly behind the protesters, and that doesn't seem too likely.

By the way, that Thai Rath picture that was from 2008 was a useful reminder of PAD's propensity to violence despite the fact that Thai Rath made a scarcely forgivable mistake in claiming that it was from these protesters. This group, the NSPRT, are basically the PAD in all but name. Most of the leaders were the same people that were involved in PAD, plus the core of the group remains the same; rubber farmers and students from technical schools with involvement from a Ramkhamhaeng student leader as well I believe.

This group has been involved in practically every violent incident so far. The attacks on police raging long into the night at Government house in early December where several police cars were burned, the incident at Ramkhamhaeng University (where three red shirts and one of their group was killed), the break in at the DSI building, and now this Stadium incident. It's not a coincidence, and it's not a coincidence that they're former PAD people either. It really should not be a surprise that a minority of this group would carry small arms, just as PAD did in 2008. I mean, many of them are technical students, and they have a reputation which I'm sure most posters here are well aware of...

Suthep's core group by contrast look like angels in comparison, though obviously I don't support what they're doing, they have been pretty peaceful as far as I can tell, with perhaps the police HQ incident an exception. Yet it's likely that those co-ordinating things behind the scenes require the 'muscle' of the NSPRT and their ability to instigate such incidents. If Suthep is truly against violence, he should condemn them. Instead, they're lauded from the main stage.

I should add that if anyone here is going to defend NSPRT with reference to the red shirts, please save your time. I already know full well that there's also a hardcore minority of red shirts responsible for shocking and disgusting violence. But I also believe that the majority of protesters on both sides are peaceful. I wouldn't condemn Suthep's group in itself for violence committed by a minority. It's simply that I don't agree with their cause (despite the fact that I thought they had very real and valid reasons to protest in early November).

Edited January 4, 2014 by Emptyset

[Thait Spot]

Ah ah... So it is really a protester that shot that poor policeman !!!

Thugs!

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Another kangaroo court?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rreddin]

Ah ah... So it is really a protester that shot that poor policeman !!!

Thugs!

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Not necessarily. CAPO do not say who fired the shot, only where it came from.

Now who has the most to benefit from the protests turning violent? And, if one wanted to stir things up a bit, the best way to control the situatation is to put another group in place to do the job - not arming the protesters. Plausible deniability and proof positive that the protesters were unarmed as well as a propaganda opportunity to claim the government were responsible.

[h90]

Do not forget that MANY other peoples where injured by real bullet (but no other died yet)!

Look at this VDO and those pictures!

On the 3rd picture you can see clearly rifles!!!

Click on the pictures to zoom!

http://youtu.be/WvcO0qkOiI8

The picture shows clearly rifles:

But Abdul says: but insisted that police were only armed with batons, shields, tear gas and rubber bullets.

So it clearly another lie.

And if someone still have doubts:

as Wasu's body was not sent to the Police Hospital for an autopsy.

[theslime]

After last weeks lies and with Thaksin's cousin as head who can trust CAPO?

No one.

Why would you trust either side? As I say above, you go with the evidence. And Surapong didn't say anything about this case, that I can remember did he? I can't really remember too many egregious lies coming from him in the past few weeks, tbh. No doubt there have been some porkies. But nothing that stands out as much as, say, insisting that 200,000 or so people are actually 6 million and that this has been proven by 'academics'. Chalerm on the other hand has come out with loads of his typical nonsensical drivel, yes, but he isn't CAPO.

The statement CAPO initially made about the case was just plain dumb though. I'm not saying Adun necessarily more honest than the rest, although it certainly appears that way. Even Veera in the Post has praised his honesty. But regardless he's definitely smarter than the other people who've spoken from the Government side. He waited until they'd compiled evidence before making a statement. Took journalists up to the roof of the Labour Ministry building to prove that police couldn't have shot and killed Narong from up there. And admitted that police did in fact break the van windows. It was obviously them and Adun must've realized it did nothing for police credibility to deny the obvious. Top marks to Adun, shame about the rest of them...

This btw is right in the direction that police firing from the Labour Ministry would've had to fire from:

Compare with the map:

The building on the left in the first picture is the white building to the right of the Labour Ministry building police were stationed in on the map. As you can see, it's actually higher than the top of the Labour Ministry building (three storey) and blocks the direction they would've had to fire in.

Anyone who still believes police could've done it from there is... well... too far gone to see reason.

So what is your point,? that the Police could have done it from the Gate then . Do you recall what happened to Pornthip the forensic scientist, pushed out for showing the truth about lots of Government lies? Funny about coincidences that this comes out after the Cops got caught red faced again telling Porkies

[JRSoul]

The explanations are coming from Adun and police now, not CAPO. Like I say, I've got my doubts over some of what they've said (e.g. Wasu being shot by protesters from a building) but the evidence supports the fact that Narong was shot from the direction of protesters coming from Gate 3. If it wasn't them, it could only have been someone in the flats directly behind the protesters, and that doesn't seem too likely.

By the way, that Thai Rath picture that was from 2008 was a useful reminder of PAD's propensity to violence despite the fact that Thai Rath made a scarcely forgivable mistake in claiming that it was from these protesters. This group, the NSPRT, are basically the PAD in all but name. Most of the leaders were the same people that were involved in PAD, plus the core of the group remains the same; rubber farmers and students from technical schools with involvement from a Ramkhamhaeng student leader as well I believe.

This group has been involved in practically every violent incident so far. The attacks on police raging long into the night at Government house in early December where several police cars were burned, the incident at Ramkhamhaeng University (where three red shirts and one of their group was killed), the break in at the DSI building, and now this Stadium incident. It's not a coincidence, and it's not a coincidence that they're former PAD people either. It really should not be a surprise that a minority of this group would carry small arms, just as PAD did in 2008. I mean, many of them are technical students, and they have a reputation which I'm sure most posters here are well aware of...

Suthep's core group by contrast look like angels in comparison, though obviously I don't support what they're doing, they have been pretty peaceful as far as I can tell, with perhaps the police HQ incident an exception. Yet it's likely that those co-ordinating things behind the scenes require the 'muscle' of the NSPRT and their ability to instigate such incidents. If Suthep is truly against violence, he should condemn them. Instead, they're lauded from the main stage.

I should add that if anyone here is going to defend NSPRT with reference to the red shirts, please save your time. I already know full well that there's also a hardcore minority of red shirts responsible for shocking and disgusting violence. But I also believe that the majority of protesters on both sides are peaceful. I wouldn't condemn Suthep's group in itself for violence committed by a minority. It's simply that I don't agree with their cause (despite the fact that I thought they had very real and valid reasons to protest in early November).

You do like to smear with a broad brush, don't you. A PAD protester was photographed with a gun 5 years ago, so "a minority of this group would carry small arms", and some are tech students, the vast majority of which have never been inolved in violence, but some have, so there you go. And let's not even talk about rubber farmers.

Would it be equally fair to say red shirts were extremely violent in 2010, and would be happy to see this group perceived the same way, so there is a strong possibility of laying the blame there? Or that a RTP officer, every one of which carries a handgun, panicked and fired a few shots?

[Scamper]

So to recap, forensics confirmed that the shot was fired from a high vantage point. Then the photo of the men in black of the rooftop was released. Then the chief of police confirmed that the men in black were police officers. Then Chalerm quickly denied that. Now this reframing of the events. In addition, there is the footage we have all seen of the policeman brutally ramming his baton against the window of a van. And the subsequent admission of the chief of police that that was a police officer, as well. And now that is not even mentioned in the report. And further, CAPO now says that the use of rubber bullets was justified. So basically the renewed line of CAPO is that the police never at any time did anything wrong. So they must wonder why the public outrage. Yet sane people do not.

[noitom]

'Working closely with his relatives to solve the case." A euphemism for arranging a payoff for silence.

[Prbkk]

So to recap, forensics confirmed that the shot was fired from a high vantage point. Then the photo of the men in black of the rooftop was released. Then the chief of police confirmed that the men in black were police officers. Then Chalerm quickly denied that. Now this reframing of the events. In addition, there is the footage we have all seen of the policeman brutally ramming his baton against the window of a van. And the subsequent admission of the chief of police that that was a police officer, as well. And now that is not even mentioned in the report. And further, CAPO now says that the use of rubber bullets was justified. So basically the renewed line of CAPO is that the police never at any time did anything wrong. So they must wonder why the public outrage. Yet sane people do not.

In stark contrast to the military after 2010, the police are prepared to answer questions and explain their involvement, and to hold accountable any found responsible for wrongdoing. Didn't you follow those events? Or do you ave double standards?

[lostinsurin]

Do not forget that MANY other peoples where injured by real bullet (but no other died yet)!

Look at this VDO and those pictures!

On the 3rd picture you can see clearly rifles!!!

Click on the pictures to zoom!

http://youtu.be/WvcO0qkOiI8

The picture shows clearly rifles:

But Abdul says: but insisted that police were only armed with batons, shields, tear gas and rubber bullets.

So it clearly another lie.

And if someone still have doubts:

as Wasu's body was not sent to the Police Hospital for an autopsy.

He states they had rubber bullets, do you think they were going to throw them!

you must have been a great student

[Prbkk]

There is a very sad piece about Wasu in the Bangkok Post ( not in The Nation). I hope the full story of what happened to him will become known, unlike so many of the tragedies in 2010

[JRSoul]

Do not forget that MANY other peoples where injured by real bullet (but no other died yet)!

Look at this VDO and those pictures!

On the 3rd picture you can see clearly rifles!!!

Click on the pictures to zoom!

http://youtu.be/WvcO0qkOiI8

The picture shows clearly rifles:

But Abdul says: but insisted that police were only armed with batons, shields, tear gas and rubber bullets.

So it clearly another lie.

And if someone still have doubts:

as Wasu's body was not sent to the Police Hospital for an autopsy.

He states they had rubber bullets, do you think they were going to throw them!

you must have been a great student

FYI rubber bullets are NOT fired from assault rifles like those in the picture