What kind of pension do you have?

[BOOKEMDANO]

Whilst being relatively young still - 32 - I need to start thinking seriously about putting money away for the future.

I earn a respectable salary and worked-out I could save 30,000 per month (45,000 after the car is paid off) each month. This still gives me enough to enjoy trips and day to day living. I still continue paying tax and national insurance back in my home country to ensure a possible pension payout of 9,000 per year and to keep the door open for a possible return there in the future.

But what I would like to ask is what you do to prepare for a pension either here or abroad? I will look into mutual funds here with Bangkok bank for tax credits and a nice 5 year lump sum -hopefully- at the end of it. But what else is there?

Property?

Home country Isa?

Local pension plans?

Any feedback is welcomed as I am sure not to be the only one with this question tag hanging over them for their future peace of mind.

[PattayaPhom]

Whilst being relatively young still - 32 - I need to start thinking seriously about putting money away for the future.

I earn a respectable salary and worked-out I could save 30,000 per month (45,000 after the car is paid off) each month. This still gives me enough to enjoy trips and day to day living. I still continue paying tax and national insurance back in my home country to ensure a possible pension payout of 9,000 per year and to keep the door open for a possible return there in the future.

But what I would like to ask is what you do to prepare for a pension either here or abroad? I will look into mutual funds here with Bangkok bank for tax credits and a nice 5 year lump sum -hopefully- at the end of it. But what else is there?

Property?

Home country Isa?

Local pension plans?

Any feedback is welcomed as I am sure not to be the only one with this question tag hanging over them for their future peace of mind.

Uk pension plans still offer good value with the tax incentives especially if you are higher rate. Annuity rates have taken a dive buy that's temporary. Look at all plans nit just pp and stakeholder

Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited January 5, 2014 by PattayaPhom

[SheungWan]

IMHO the default choice is to maximise the tax advantages of having a stock and shares ISA and put the monthly/yearly savings into that.

Alternatively, if you want to maintain the option of returning home then acquisition of a property in anticipation of this is to be considered and has the advantage (and risk) of leveraging your assets, but there is the potential pitfall of buying a dud.

Edited January 5, 2014 by SheungWan

[Ruin]

I am glad to have kept up my contributions when I moved overseas, I now have plenty to live on when I retire in a few years.

I am not the gambling type and so kept away from investments although real estate or just land sells well.

[Nowhereman60]

I am soaking the American tax payer dry. With Military Pension, Civil Service Pension, VA Disability Payments, Social Security and My Thrift Saving Plan. Thank you American tax payer.

[Estrada]

All pension providers rip you off. Steer clear of financial advisors, they just milk you with no redress if they give the wrong investment advice.

In 20 years my paid up, so called "with profit professionally managed" pensions, with AVIVA and Abbey Life failed to increase in value. Other ex-past bought back years for their state pension only to find that they are not covered for medical expenses 6 months after they leave the UK, and they get they get the full pension after 30 years so their extra 15 back years they bought was money wasted. Couple that with the fact that UK pensioners in Thailand do not get annual increases no matter how large their contributions were.

3 years ago I decided to invest B6 Million in the Thai Stock Exchange as my own Managed Pension, and have made B26 Million in 4 years. If the Pension Providers actually professionally managed my pension, surely they could have made a few million pounds for my pension.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Tywais
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[i claudius]

Not a big enough one for my liking.

[mickjn]

All pension providers rip you off. Steer clear of financial advisors, they just milk you with no redress if they give the wrong investment advice.

Never a truer word spoken.

I do not worry I have got plenty in the bank get a bit of interest that does me.

[77Dan]

OP- which country are you from: the UK? And what tax do you still pay?

I'm from the UK and have been overseas for about nine years. My understanding is that you cannot pay into a UK pension or ISA for tax relief if you do not live in the UK. But if you still pay tax maybe you're still considered a UK resident. I think you might need to check carefully if you're eligible to invest in an ISA or the tax man might coming calling.

For me I can't invest in those, as far as I understand, so I invest in stocks and funds outside a tax wrapper through a UK online broker. I mainly buy solid shares that pay a good dividend and plan to hold for the long term. Beware of funds that charge more than one percent a year in management fees as it will eat into any gains.

I also invest in the Thai long term equity fund scheme as it is tax deductible so depending on your tax band you in effect get a 30 percent gain for holding for about three years (officially five but in reality it only needs to be three and a bit if you invest at the end of the calendar year), so long as the market doesn't crash of course. It could also go up but I don't count on that and expect a bumpy ride. It's a really good deal IMO though not sure how many longer they will offer it. But it's only a relatively small part of my total savings. I wouldn't tie too much of your money up in a country like Thailand.

I have considered buying property as an investment but concluded it's too risky unless it's a relatively small percentage of your total investment, say 30 percent or less, or if you plan to live in it now. It might also depend on where you buy but European and Australian housing looks like expensive at the moment. Also you have the hassle involved with becoming a landlord.

For a fairly easy option why not invest in low-cost tracker funds and just leave it there for 30 years. Or something like the Vanguard Life Strategy Funds?

I personally don't bother paying NI anymore as the trend seems to be for governments to just plunder public pension schemes and given the dire state of the UK public finances and the aging population I'd rather be in charge of my money.

But I save more than average because living overseas puts you at a disadvantage in some ways compared to people in their home country who have bought a home and are paying into a pension scheme. The upside to living in Thailand is I can save more with lower taxes and living costs, so I try to put away as much as possible, and keep control of my own finances. Don't listen to any financial advisers. Good luck.

[bkk_mike]

Personally, I bought property as my pseudo-pension when I was a contractor (i.e. self employed). Although it was more a matter of not selling my old place whenever I moved...

Between Thailand being one of the countries where UK state pensions are frozen and the switch to using different inflation indices to link state pension increases, I have no intention of relying on a UK state pension. But at least, as I'm an employee nowadays, I put as much as the company does (at least partial) matching payments on into my private pension as that's essentially free money...

I'm against locking up more than the percentage that I get matching contributions for in the pension because it locks up the money until (near) retirement especially while I'm still paying things like mortgages.

If you have any debt, and you're not getting company matching payments of some sort into your pension, you're almost certainly better off paying down the debt with your spare cash than adding it to your pension.

Edited January 6, 2014 by bkk_mike

[slipperylobster]

I am soaking the American tax payer dry. With Military Pension, Civil Service Pension, VA Disability Payments, Social Security and My Thrift Saving Plan. Thank you American tax payer.

Thanks for your service.. Enjoy, Enjoy Enjoy

In a similar position, But social security will kick in later ( 3 more years.)

80,000 baht a month, and will increase to 140,000 when social security kicks in (hopefully I will make it before they go broke)

Any valuation on the dollar to baht exchange certainly makes me smile.....

My cost of living allowance only rent up 40 dollars a month, but with the current exchange rate, I got a good increase, and am happy.

No credit. All gravy.

[smotherb]

The old adage, "don't put all your eggs in the same basket,' should come to mind. Save money from every paycheck--invest in stocks, bonds, minerals, funds; buy land with potential--mineral rights, timber, recreational, etc; buy dwellings for rental and equity; invest in a niche business; speculate on collectable items--motorcycles and cars were my favorite; and, of course, whatever pension you can manage. I did expat contract work all my life, so I have no company pension, but my US social security is more than most because I paid the max every year; but more importantly, I followed my own advice about eggs in the basket.

[AyG]

You can not invest in an ISA once you are non-resident in the UK. (You continue to get the tax benefits on existing ISAs, however.)

You can only invest in a personal pension for a maximum of 5 tax years after you become non-resident (which is a good thing to do because of the tax relief).

Advice such as "Steer clear of financial advisors, they just milk you with no redress if they give the wrong investment advice" is not helpful.

Some products such as QROPS (offshore pensions) are only available through a fianancial advisor,as are many wrap accounts (which give discounts on initial and annual management charges on funds). As for "no redress", there are plenty of cases where redress has been given, for example, over the Arch Cru debacle - and not difficult to claim compensation either.

With financial advisors the important thing is to know the end result you want and to make sure that you understand what the advisor is proposing, particularly the investments suggested and all associated charges and fees.

[advancebooking]

If you have 20% deposit or more I would invest in a 1 or 2 bedroom flat in central london. Continue paying off the loan in the next 20 yrs. By the time you retire you will have it paid off and then have a high regular monthly money coming in. If you find a good property manager it should be smooth sailing but all depends on the quality of tenants you find. No doubt the Capital Value will substantially increase in 20 yrs and you will make huge money when selling it. Then stick the money in the bank and live off the interest

good luck

[SheungWan]

If you have 20% deposit or more I would invest in a 1 or 2 bedroom flat in central london. Continue paying off the loan in the next 20 yrs. By the time you retire you will have it paid off and then have a high regular monthly money coming in. If you find a good property manager it should be smooth sailing but all depends on the quality of tenants you find. No doubt the Capital Value will substantially increase in 20 yrs and you will make huge money when selling it. Then stick the money in the bank and live off the interest

good luck

It might be a good idea if he had the price of entry but say he wanted to buy a small apartment for 400k and had the 100k deposit, the repayment would be in excess of his available income (900 per month). That would require him to go for a BTL mortgage at a higher interest rate and also the knowledge that the repayments have to be made irrespective of whether the apartment is rented out or not.

[tomtom47]

I am soaking the American tax payer dry. With Military Pension, Civil Service Pension, VA Disability Payments, Social Security and My Thrift Saving Plan. Thank you American tax payer.

You sound so proud of stealing from us American tax payers. I have a similar stream of pension income that arose from 40 years of hard work. I didn't have to lie or stretch the truth in order to increase the total sum, so therefore I don't believe that I am soaking the American taxpayer for ill-gotten gain like you do. There is a certain amount of resentment towards folks like you who not only make a lot of money but have the gall to shove it in our faces and say, "Hey stupid, keep working and pay taxes, so I can continue living high on the hog">

[Bernard Flint]

You can not invest in an ISA once you are non-resident in the UK. (You continue to get the tax benefits on existing ISAs, however.)

You can only invest in a personal pension for a maximum of 5 tax years after you become non-resident (which is a good thing to do because of the tax relief).

Advice such as "Steer clear of financial advisors, they just milk you with no redress if they give the wrong investment advice" is not helpful.

Some products such as QROPS (offshore pensions) are only available through a fianancial advisor,as are many wrap accounts (which give discounts on initial and annual management charges on funds). As for "no redress", there are plenty of cases where redress has been given, for example, over the Arch Cru debacle - and not difficult to claim compensation either.

With financial advisors the important thing is to know the end result you want and to make sure that you understand what the advisor is proposing, particularly the investments suggested and all associated charges and fees.

Sir

I would suggest to stay away from poor financial investors.One of my relations who has a company in Thailand,saved me from a poor investor,and has donw wonders for my future.

[Nowhereman60]

I am soaking the American tax payer dry. With Military Pension, Civil Service Pension, VA Disability Payments, Social Security and My Thrift Saving Plan. Thank you American tax payer.

You sound so proud of stealing from us American tax payers. I have a similar stream of pension income that arose from 40 years of hard work. I didn't have to lie or stretch the truth in order to increase the total sum, so therefore I don't believe that I am soaking the American taxpayer for ill-gotten gain like you do. There is a certain amount of resentment towards folks like you who not only make a lot of money but have the gall to shove it in our faces and say, "Hey stupid, keep working and pay taxes, so I can continue living high on the hog">

Sorry I disappoint you, but I also worked hard and planned well to have a good retirement. Now I am enjoying it. and proud of what I did. And I did it all legal. So eat my expensive shorts.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Well first off, and if you can, try to become a Non-resident of your Home Country. So you can "Legally" stop paying taxes to them. If you are living here and paying their, you are not getting very much for your Tax Dollars. Renew your Passport at Your Embassy, to see what I mean. Besides that, you can do much better with your Pension Money then any government can do. Keep in mind there may be no Pension Money left by the time you need it.

This should save you a lot of money by avoided taxes (legally I may add) but lets just use this $1,000 a month savings you talked about. Next find a safe but also good paying Dividend Stock. There are many out their! My favorite one owns many Liquor Stores in Canada and the USA. Right now they are paying a Monthly Dividend, which they have been doing every month for over 10 years now, at an Annual Rate of Return of 7.5%. You may have to pay 15% Tax on your Dividend, but this can be sheltered by taxes in a Government Approved Retirement Funds. Since people drink in good times, and bad, there is a very good chance they will continue to grow and continue to pay out this Dividend.

You are now half way there. But also the hardest part is coming next. Continue to contribute this $1,000 every month to buy more Stock and reinvest all your Dividend Money back into this as well. Many companies have Dividend Re-investment Plans, in which you normal Dividend Payment goes back to buy more stock automatically. By doing this you usually get a discount of between 5% to 10% on the Stock Price which is a good deal for you. Now here is the Magic to doing all this.

If you find a Safe Stock that only pays you 7%, and not 7.5% like mine, but reinvest your Dividends, and continue to invest $1,000 a month, by the time you reach age 55 years old you would have a total saving in this Stock equal to $682,000! Now if you just start spending only your "Monthly Dividend Payments" which you receive at 7% Rate per year, this gives you $47,740 a year to live off. Or about $4,000 a Month! Much better than a $900 Pension Payment you may not get as by then it will only go to people who have no money at all. You also still have this $682,000 in the bank while with a Government Pension you have nothing but your monthly payments.

But this is all assuming that in all these 23 years nothing changes with this Stock, which is highly unlikely. I see my Liquor Stock to continue to grow as older retired people drink more then, when they have more time on their hands, and in some cases money. Populations will continue to grow and people will continue to drink alcohol. So there is a better chance that this Stock will be double in price by then, and paying out double the Dividend as it does today. Hope this Helps.

But there is one more thing you might want to know about and maybe have some control over. The 3 Golden Rules of Living and Working Overseas. They are as follows:

1) Do all your Banking in one country where you do not Work or Live! I prefer My Home Country Bank.

2) Work in one Country were you do not Bank or Live. By "Live" I mean where you set up Permanent Residence.

3) Live in the Third Country where you do not Bank or Work .

The reason for this is that it is very difficult to tax someone who does not live in that country or work their. With the exception perhaps being from people from the Good Ole USA. But not 100% sure about that either They also can't tax you if you just live their but have no money coming in or earned their. They can tax you where you work but usually not the first year. Most cases your employer takes care of that anyway, as part of your Contract. So...their you go...and Good Luck.

You are wise thinking about saving now. My hat comes off to you if you can really do this and stick to your plan. Failure comes when you did not put enough money away when emergency's happen, and they will come. Also, if you squeeze yourself too tight on a budget and find out later that there is nothing left over for fun money or trips back home. A Divorce will cut your feet and savings into half! But your Tax Savings would probably equal this $1,000 a month savings, or exceed that anyway. So if you can avoid taxes this means you don't have to save anything but still have this money come Early Retirement Time. Just don't tell the wife about this Investment Account!

Good Luck!

[kingstonkid]

I would venture to say that all of us that served our countries deserve the pensions we receive.

As to OP

i have a couple of suggestions. Set up a stock account and invest it on a monthly deposit in the SET50 or such. All Thai mutual funds are usually set to try to beat or meet that. If you can invest on a monthly basis it is the best way. The other way to do it that i personally would think would be good if you have enough money is to buy a few condo's and rent them out. It is tricky and can be tough starting out but that would be the best way to have a secure as possible plan.

MY BIG SUGGESTION TO YOU THOUGH IS BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING NO MATTER WHAT EDUCATE YOURSELF ABOUT IT AND FIND GOOD PEOPLE TO ASSIST YOU. There are Financial advisors that may be good. There are different offshore companies that are awesome. one invets in Commercial property in Canda and gets a hell of a return for you.

[SailingHome]

USA Social Security Disability 8 years running. Max payout allowed under law, but still not enough to even get by in USA. Here in LOS, I get by, I have medicine and pocket money. Never save for long as dental, medical, etc. comes up. Not sure what will happen when prices rise here or exchange tanks with strong Baht. Any ideas welcome. Parkinsons so can't hold a job or business a one day to next never know if will be in bed or energetic. Eh, no complaints. Feel lucky, really.

Sent from my MyPhone A919 Duo using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[FiftyTwo]

Whilst being relatively young still - 32 - I need to start thinking seriously about putting money away for the future.

I earn a respectable salary and worked-out I could save 30,000 per month (45,000 after the car is paid off) each month. This still gives me enough to enjoy trips and day to day living. I still continue paying tax and national insurance back in my home country to ensure a possible pension payout of 9,000 per year and to keep the door open for a possible return there in the future.

But what I would like to ask is what you do to prepare for a pension either here or abroad? I will look into mutual funds here with Bangkok bank for tax credits and a nice 5 year lump sum -hopefully- at the end of it. But what else is there?

Property?

Home country Isa?

Local pension plans?

Any feedback is welcomed as I am sure not to be the only one with this question tag hanging over them for their future peace of mind.

Uk pension plans still offer good value with the tax incentives especially if you are higher rate. Annuity rates have taken a dive buy that's temporary. Look at all plans nit just pp and stakeholder

Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

UK pension plans are just a scam.

Just work out what you can get back from them.

Unless you are getting 40% back in tax from the government, use something else.

Why are they are a scam.

You can't ever get you hands on the money is why.

Annuity ....... 5% with no raise. (best it ever was 6%)

That's 20 years of claiming the pension before you even get your original cash back!

Then there is all the fees you get charged, if you live out of the UK, no protection from the FSA if your IFA nicks the money.

Private pension plans ...... only for the terminally stupid.

Let me see, my own plan worth 120k UKP when I retired.

40K misinvested by my IFA in CM and lost, apparently that's about normal, 40K I managed to get in cash, 40k annuity of about 1k5 a year not linked (worthless in less than 10 years.

So on a normal private pension plan your cances of getting more than 40% of it's value back in cash are marginal to say the least.

So I got about double my original cash investment (about 20k) back in cash ...... 20 years later.

Anyone done better?

Should have bought another house, or flat .... or gold.

Edited January 6, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[SailingHome]

I am soaking the American tax payer dry. With Military Pension, Civil Service Pension, VA Disability Payments, Social Security and My Thrift Saving Plan. Thank you American tax payer.

You sound so proud of stealing from us American tax payers. I have a similar stream of pension income that arose from 40 years of hard work. I didn't have to lie or stretch the truth in order to increase the total sum, so therefore I don't believe that I am soaking the American taxpayer for ill-gotten gain like you do. There is a certain amount of resentment towards folks like you who not only make a lot of money but have the gall to shove it in our faces and say, "Hey stupid, keep working and pay taxes, so I can continue living high on the hog">

He should be proud. He earned it just as you did, and in my opinion, earned it more than most Americans.

[FiftyTwo]

Without stating your nationality, no one have offer much advice, every country is different.

UK person

Best investment

Pay your NI contributions, only 140ukp a year if working abroad, 35 * 140 = 20Kukp getting you a return of 7kukp/year.

Best investment ever, but so many too stupid to do it.

Next best investment

Final salary Company pension plan. But Norman Lamont closed them all down, too bad, too late.

(unless you work for the British military or government)

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

I am soaking the American tax payer dry. With Military Pension, Civil Service Pension, VA Disability Payments, Social Security and My Thrift Saving Plan. Thank you American tax payer.

You sound so proud of stealing from us American tax payers. I have a similar stream of pension income that arose from 40 years of hard work. I didn't have to lie or stretch the truth in order to increase the total sum, so therefore I don't believe that I am soaking the American taxpayer for ill-gotten gain like you do. There is a certain amount of resentment towards folks like you who not only make a lot of money but have the gall to shove it in our faces and say, "Hey stupid, keep working and pay taxes, so I can continue living high on the hog">

Sorry I disappoint you, but I also worked hard and planned well to have a good retirement. Now I am enjoying it. and proud of what I did. And I did it all legal. So eat my expensive shorts.

If everything you did was within the law then you are not " soaking the American tax payer", you are simply getting what you are entitled too.

[SailingHome]

Rajab, we Americans use sarcasm a lot. Likely the 'soaking' comment was tongue-in-cheak knowing some people don't appreciate the sacrafices that military veterans and government workers make. I doubt he feels he is personally abusing the system. He knows he earned it legally and lawfully ;-)

Sent from my MyPhone A919 Duo using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thrilled]

Pensions?In the us they've nearly died.They have these things called 401k's.Not much to them.Anything worth anything are Roth IRA's.I just invest in the stock market,dividend stocks,and collect Social Security.I imagine in A few years that will be finished.Right now it's A Ponzi scheme.It sounds like the whole world is getting to be A Ponzi scheme.Hold on dude,your in for A wild ride.

[mrfaroukh]

Well I really didn't get your question. You are 32 and in couple of years you will be retired . You can save 30 000 a month and you can get 9000 from your country. What currency are you talking about? Where are you from? Then could be easier perhaps to suggest you something. If property is good in your country I advise you to buy or keep the one you have, rent it out and live on the rent. Many Russian are doing this, they rent out their property in Russia and live on a 1000$ or more they get.

good luck

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Rajab, we Americans use sarcasm a lot. Likely the 'soaking' comment was tongue-in-cheak knowing some people don't appreciate the sacrafices that military veterans and government workers make. I doubt he feels he is personally abusing the system. He knows he earned it legally and lawfully ;-) Sent from my MyPhone A919 Duo using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I love 'mercans !

[Jingthing]

I've got no pension. Social security I plan to claim as soon as I am of age. Sarah Silverman willing. It will be on the puny side.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Jingthing