Special Report: A nation at the crossroads

[Lite Beer]

Special Report: A nation at the crossroads
Phuket Gazette -

An anti-government protester flies the Thai standard at a mass demonstration in Bangkok. Photo: Reuters

Special Report

As Thailand begins a new year, the country finds itself at a crossroads. What seems to be at stake is not only the future shape of democracy in this country, but whether it will even remain a democracy at all. This should worry all those who care about the future of Thailand and its people.

The People’s Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) is determined to bring down Yingluck Shinawatra’s government. They want to uproot the Thaksin regime and replace it with a “People’s Government”. They want a People’s Assembly to serve as the legislative branch of this brave new administration, and to draft legislation that would reform Thailand’s political system.

They insist that they are not anti-democracy, but support a cleaner democracy – one not corrupted by capital.

The group, led by former deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban and several old faces from the People’s Alliance for Democracy, claim the Constitution allows them to do this. Article 3 of the charter says sovereignty of the country “belongs to the people”.

The government, they add, has violated Article 68 of the Constitution, which says that no one should try to overthrow the system of constitutional democracy with HM The King as head of state. Because the current government says it will not heed the judgment of the Constitutional Court, which struck down its recent Senate amendment, the administration is no longer respecting the Constitution, and has thus lost legitimacy, the PRDC claims.

Once Ms Yingluck has resigned, an eventuality the PDRC is plainly aiming to achieve, there will be a power vacuum. The PDRC then wants to invoke Article 7 of the charter, which says that when no part of the document seems to apply to the situation, the country should follow conventional democratic practice.

Since the country has been ruled by appointed prime ministers before, this would allow the head of the Senate to appoint a new premier, who would in turn bring in a new government of technocrats – “good people”, using the protesters’ term of choice.

A new People’s Assembly would then replace the Parliament. Its 400-strong membership would comprise 300 representatives from professional organizations, and 100 appointed by the PDRC. This assembly would then set about "reforming” Thailand’s corrupted political system.

The PDRC is right to say the system is in need of reform. Politics remains deeply corrupt. Vote buying, as the protesters claim, is indeed rife. But to claim that Pheu Thai buys elections entirely through the purchasing of votes, as the PDRC has claimed, is to grossly oversimplify the situation. The reality is that – for all his serious flaws – Thaksin Shinawatra and his proxies are the party of choice for millions of Thais.

A further oversimplification is in suggesting that only one party engages in vote buying. All the parties play the votes for notes game. Studies have shown that some voters take money only from the party they intend to support, while others take money from every party then vote for their preferred candidate anyway. Paying for votes is the price you pay to play the game, as academics Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongphaichit have argued. It does not guarantee victory.

One further cause for caution is the leader of the protests himself. Those who have lived in Phuket long enough may remember a little of Suthep Thaugsuban’s questionable record. In 1995, as Agriculture Minister, he was responsible for the SorPorKor 4-01 land reform scheme, in which the deeds to plots of empty land were supposed to be distributed to poor farmers around the country.

In Phuket, an investigation revealed that 11 of the island’s richest families were among the recipients of this property. The accusations had enough credibility – and seriousness – to bring down Chuan Leekpai’s Democrat government. This fact should serve as a strong signal that this conflict is driven by a lot more than just revulsion to corruption.

To lose faith in democracy at this point in Thailand’s development would be a mistake. The system is highly flawed. But one has to wonder what kind of reforms the PDRC might carry out that could somehow ensure that when democracy is restored – within about 18 months – it is suddenly, miraculously clean.

The PDRC claims to be a peaceful movement, and so far the protests have been relatively free from violence. But those observers who support the principles of human rights and free speech have good cause to wonder what kind of reforms Mr Suthep and his fellow leaders have in mind – reforms that we are led to believe will succeed in cleaning up Thai politics where others have failed.

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Source: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket_news/2014/Special-Report-A-nation-at-the-crossroads-23168.html

-- Phuket Gazette 2014-01-05

[Nowhereman60]

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Some tell that idiot Suthep this. But of course you know he would not understand it because he is an X democrat.

[icare999]

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Some tell that idiot Suthep this. But of course you know he would not understand it because he is an X democrat.

f democracy here means a one party taksin state where his government can legalise all his crimes by amnesty and openly say they wont accept decision of courts then ill welcome anything that gets rid of him.

Remember Hitler Mugabwie Saddam and rest were all elected so if someone had stopped them in time a lot of lives would have been saved and a lot of misery avoided

You would just let Taksin continue and then in a few years wring your hands in despair at seeing Thailand become a one party police Taksin state

[englishoak]

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Some tell that idiot Suthep this. But of course you know he would not understand it because he is an X democrat.

f democracy here means a one party taksin state where his government can legalise all his crimes by amnesty and openly say they wont accept decision of courts then ill welcome anything that gets rid of him.

Remember Hitler Mugabwie Saddam and rest were all elected so if someone had stopped them in time a lot of lives would have been saved and a lot of misery avoided

You would just let Taksin continue and then in a few years wring your hands in despair at seeing Thailand become a one party police Taksin state

Thats funny because Suthep is acting far far more right wing than Thaksin ever has... great choice these two...... not

Edited January 5, 2014 by englishoak

[chooka]

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Some tell that idiot Suthep this. But of course you know he would not understand it because he is an X democrat.

f democracy here means a one party taksin state where his government can legalise all his crimes by amnesty and openly say they wont accept decision of courts then ill welcome anything that gets rid of him.

Remember Hitler Mugabwie Saddam and rest were all elected so if someone had stopped them in time a lot of lives would have been saved and a lot of misery avoided

You would just let Taksin continue and then in a few years wring your hands in despair at seeing Thailand become a one party police Taksin state

Well lets hope Suthep is stopped before it is to late.

[noitom]

This article is very thoughtful. Amazing that a corrupt politician like Suthep could be still leading any reform movement in Thailand.

[ikke]

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Some tell that idiot Suthep this. But of course you know he would not understand it because he is an X democrat.

f democracy here means a one party taksin state where his government can legalise all his crimes by amnesty and openly say they wont accept decision of courts then ill welcome anything that gets rid of him.

Remember Hitler Mugabwie Saddam and rest were all elected so if someone had stopped them in time a lot of lives would have been saved and a lot of misery avoided

You would just let Taksin continue and then in a few years wring your hands in despair at seeing Thailand become a one party police Taksin state

I think we all remember Hitler, Saddam etc... I think about them every single day when I see Suthep on stage.

If you let Suthep continiue, in a few years Thailand will not become a one party politics , but just a one man dictatorship.

[binjalin]

what is truly "Amazing" is some Thais (and some TVF posters) really think democracy is not 'worth it' and should not be given to those 'poor farmers'

let's reiterate - the only way for us to know how many Thais support Dear Leader Suthep is to have an... wait for it.... drum roll... ELECTION

but he doesn't want that - i mean why rely on democracy when you can just take over?

Edited January 5, 2014 by binjalin

[jonclark]

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Some tell that idiot Suthep this. But of course you know he would not understand it because he is an X democrat.

f democracy here means a one party taksin state where his government can legalise all his crimes by amnesty and openly say they wont accept decision of courts then ill welcome anything that gets rid of him.

Remember Hitler Mugabwie Saddam and rest were all elected so if someone had stopped them in time a lot of lives would have been saved and a lot of misery avoided

You would just let Taksin continue and then in a few years wring your hands in despair at seeing Thailand become a one party police Taksin state

I think we all remember Hitler, Saddam etc... I think about them every single day when I see Suthep on stage.

If you let Suthep continiue, in a few years Thailand will not become a one party politics , but just a one man dictatorship.

And if PTP have their way you could well find Thaiiand still becomes a one man dictatorship.

So perhaps the question is not about democracy, but rather. Who do you want to be the dictator?

[Orac]

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Some tell that idiot Suthep this. But of course you know he would not understand it because he is an X democrat.

f democracy here means a one party taksin state where his government can legalise all his crimes by amnesty and openly say they wont accept decision of courts then ill welcome anything that gets rid of him.

Remember Hitler Mugabwie Saddam and rest were all elected so if someone had stopped them in time a lot of lives would have been saved and a lot of misery avoided

You would just let Taksin continue and then in a few years wring your hands in despair at seeing Thailand become a one party police Taksin state

It is becoming a one party state because the main opposition are yet again not participating in the election process.

The amnesty bill was a huge error on the part of PT and was stopped by the Senate. Given the anger it generated it would be political suicide to try to push it through after 180 days expire. As for the 'not accepting decisions of the court', though they might not accept the blocking of a fully elected senate, I would be interested to see how they could actually go against the decision since surely they would not be able to get the EC to run such an election without the nod from the CC or a royal decree.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[WitawatWatawit]

"The PDRC claims to be a peaceful movement, and so far the protests have been relatively free from violence. "

Define "relatively". How many deaths does it take for the writer to decide that the protests are NOT relatively free from violence? Sure, the violence has occurred only on a few of the many days of protest. But it's violence, nonetheless. So it is no longer a peaceful rally. It would have been better for the writer to have said "... movement, but it has been marred by sporadic violence that has left 4 dead and scores injured."

[catmac]

This article is very thoughtful. Amazing that a corrupt politician like Suthep could be still leading any reform movement in Thailand.

Right to the point. Suthep must be one of the most corrupt politicians around, yet some posters on here actually do think that he will end corruption.

Rather like putting Myra Hindley in charge of child welfare!

[ChrisY1]

This article is very thoughtful. Amazing that a corrupt politician like Suthep could be still leading any reform movement in Thailand.

90% of Thai politicians, past and present, have been or are corrupt.

It's really no surprise that he is there......many Thai politicians have been convicted of some form of corruption in the past...some have current cases yet to be heard.......it never ends.....but...Suthep has certainly started something here......maybe there will be some slowing of the rampant corruption that is so blatantly evident nowadays.

[Smokemachine]

People keep saying about Suthep's reform plan. What exactly is his plan?

Some observers thought is just a way of usurping the power from the YL govt.

But Suthep has proposed to YL to have a live tv broadcasting on sharing of both reform plan but YL refused.

There is no actual conversation about the reform plan yet.

Does Suthep really have reform plan? maybe yes/ maybe no.

Don't forget YL said she also has a reform plan.

So until now did she say about the actual reform plan?

I guess all are same same.

[Thailand]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25602436

Remind anybody of anything?

[h90]

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Some tell that idiot Suthep this. But of course you know he would not understand it because he is an X democrat.

Someone did obviously as Suthep never wanted to abandoning democracy. Actually he want to end vote buying.

[soi41]

Wonder how many of the posters here, posting burning posts to defend "their" side here, were actually politically active in their homecountries??

Or too much time on their hands here??

[jayboy]

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Some tell that idiot Suthep this. But of course you know he would not understand it because he is an X democrat.

Someone did obviously as Suthep never wanted to abandoning democracy. Actually he want to end vote buying.

No you are completely wrong. In fact Suthep does not say very much about vote buying - and the well educated Democrats (Abhisit,Korn etc) scarcely refer to it at all. The reason for this is that the overwhelming evidence is that recent elections in Thailand have been fair and reasonably well conducted. More specifically it has been demonstrated while vote buying does exist, it has not had an impact on the election outcome. Very recently Chis Baker and Acharn Pasuk wrote an article demolishing the vote buying myths propagated by many.

The argument that Suthep does put forward is a different concept of vote buying, namely populism. By this he and his followers mean persuading uneducated and uninformed people to vote for politicians who promise education, health care, cheap credit etc.This has the merit of some logic as opposed the nonsense you spout out. But it too is wrong because it overlooks the reality that in all democracies people vote for policies which they think will improve their lives. If the Democrats and Suthep concentrated on abuses of populism (such as the rice support scheme) they would have much more credibility.

[keemapoot]

Interesting how the Government just commandeered every TV channel just now for a live about 5 minute pro-administration propaganda piece. They said how well they were handling the situation and reiterated how unlawful the shutdown Bangkok plan is, and how bad the Suthep methods are. They said be careful everyone, but stopped short of saying if they would try to stop the shutdown. I suspect they will use this method to garner public opinion every day nearer the shutdown.

**Just tuned into live news, evidently Suthep is walking around all the districts of Bangkok, trying to garner support for the 13th. The government is then broadcasting its own counterpoint piece evidently.

Edited January 5, 2014 by keemapoot

[Scamper]

This is a good article, that summarizes many salient points. Indeed, corrupt practices have become so endemic that it is not surprising that the very nature of democracy has been affected. Reform's sweeping objective is to truly tackle corruption. For those who very much want the status quo of corruption to remain in place, however, will use every tactic at their disposal to do so. One of those tactics has been to wrap the whole protest movement around Suthep. This is not about Suthep. It is about Thaksin. If you stop anyone on the street, they will all - unanimously identify Thaksin. He has become the symbol of all that is corrupt in this administration. Yet you take Thaksin away, and still many corrupt practices remain in place. When a platform for reform has finally been established, all parties - including Pheu Thai must be involved. The greatest mistake any reforms could make would be to exclude Pheu Thai. That would merely cement the conflict. Similarly, not only the Democratic party must not be excluded, but neither all parties and people from all walks of life. As the political conflict has been centered on two particular parties, neither should have majority sway in the new reform. A proposal brought forth recently by a group of business leaders - whereby Pheu Thai and the Democratic party would compose just one-third each of a coalition of reform partners, together with other non-partisan sectors of society - has the greater potential of uniting the country. So two things must be avoided. No one must be excluded from the process, yet no one party should exercise a monopoly. And that would inspire greater public confidence and trust in politics.

[binjalin]

Interesting how the Government just commandeered every TV channel just now for a live about 5 minute pro-administration propaganda piece. They said how well they were handling the situation and reiterated how unlawful the shutdown Bangkok plan is, and how bad the Suthep methods are. They said be careful everyone, but stopped short of saying if they would try to stop the shutdown. I suspect they will use this method to garner public opinion every day nearer the shutdown.

**Just tuned into live news, evidently Suthep is walking around all the districts of Bangkok, trying to garner support for the 13th. The government is then broadcasting its own counterpoint piece evidently.

that's what you would expect when there is an attempted coup - a national broadcast - nothing sinister and the protesters should think themselves lucky they live here and not Cambodia where the protest was squashed (as it should be)

[Roadman]

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Some tell that idiot Suthep this. But of course you know he would not understand it because he is an X democrat.

What that simplicity overlooks is that when the constitution and laws are being over ridden and not adhered to then there is no democracy to abandon. Some should tell the Shinawatra's this.

[jayboy]

This is a good article, that summarizes many salient points. Indeed, corrupt practices have become so endemic that it is not surprising that the very nature of democracy has been affected. Reform's sweeping objective is to truly tackle corruption. For those who very much want the status quo of corruption to remain in place, however, will use every tactic at their disposal to do so. One of those tactics has been to wrap the whole protest movement around Suthep. This is not about Suthep. It is about Thaksin. If you stop anyone on the street, they will all - unanimously identify Thaksin. He has become the symbol of all that is corrupt in this administration. Yet you take Thaksin away, and still many corrupt practices remain in place. When a platform for reform has finally been established, all parties - including Pheu Thai must be involved. The greatest mistake any reforms could make would be to exclude Pheu Thai. That would merely cement the conflict. Similarly, not only the Democratic party must not be excluded, but neither all parties and people from all walks of life. As the political conflict has been centered on two particular parties, neither should have majority sway in the new reform. A proposal brought forth recently by a group of business leaders - whereby Pheu Thai and the Democratic party would compose just one-third each of a coalition of reform partners, together with other non-partisan sectors of society - has the greater potential of uniting the country. So two things must be avoided. No one must be excluded from the process, yet no one party should exercise a monopoly. And that would inspire greater public confidence and trust in politics.

Wrong on so many grounds (though I agree Suthep is not the central issue) though no doubt meant sincerely.

1.No evidence that corruption is worse now than at any time in the last 20 years.Suthep himself however is a notoriously venal and corrupt figure.

2.Reform's primary idea is not to tackle corruption but to ensure Thai people cannot choose leaders at a general election.

3.The protest is not "about Thaksin" though he is the symbol of what the unelected elites, Suthep's Southerners and urban Sino Thai middle class hate.The real reasons are more complex.

4.Since Thaksin is still the most popular Thai politician I doubt whether the unanimous disapproval you suggest of the man on the street is true.

5.You are hopelessly incorrect to think an undemocratic praesidium of approved political hacks and non elected "good people" would improve the position.It would have the opposite effect.

[Rob8891]

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Some tell that idiot Suthep this. But of course you know he would not understand it because he is an X democrat.

What that simplicity overlooks is that when the constitution and laws are being over ridden and not adhered to then there is no democracy to abandon. Some should tell the Shinawatra's this.

Thaksin and Suthep should be sat on the naughty step, and not allowed off until they promise to behave themselves and share their toys nicely.

[Emptyset]

"Remember Hitler Mugabwie Saddam and rest were all elected so if someone had stopped them in time a lot of lives would have been saved and a lot of misery avoided"

Hitler came to power using a strategy very, very close to Suthep's.A "peaceful" march (failed), elections (failed to get a significant majority most of the time, but always a favourite of the middle class frustrated by a flawed and failed democratic process), appointment (!) by a representative of the old order (Kaiser loving Hindenburg) Who were thinking of being able to control him, then major constitutional changes... The rest is history, often not properly remembered.

Saddam, I thought he came to power in a coup? Backed by the military, that one.

Mugabe, don't know. In any case, you remembered two of three wrong.

Good point regards Hitler. In the 33 election, the last one, which took place when he was Chancellor, after rigging the constitution, the burning of the Reichstag to fit up the opposition, the emergency decree, mass arrests and basically having everything in his favour, he still only won 43% of the vote. Mugabe was elected, yes, though not sure you can compare elections in Zimbabwe with those in Thailand. Someone posting the other day even had Pol Pot down as elected to try to underline the point that democracy is about more than just elections.

I doubt though, that there are many on this board who believe democracy only amounts to elections. Yet clearly they are essential to it. Necessary but not sufficient.

[jpeg]

what is truly "Amazing" is some Thais (and some TVF posters) really think democracy is not 'worth it' and should not be given to those 'poor farmers'

let's reiterate - the only way for us to know how many Thais support Dear Leader Suthep is to have an... wait for it.... drum roll... ELECTION

but he doesn't want that - i mean why rely on democracy when you can just take over?

Again. Thailand is not and never has been a 'democracy' as you know it in the West. Votes must be backed up by actions. you are known by the fruits of your labour, and all that, and it clear for all to see this country is now a kleptocracy. Suthep is merely a stepping stone to a real functioning democracy in this popular people's uprising which will take many more years to come about. Another coup/reinstatement of Taksin will hold this country back for decades to come/completely destroy it.

[Somtamnication]

Not a nation at the crossroads. More like a nation chasing its tail.

[Emptyset]

"The PDRC claims to be a peaceful movement, and so far the protests have been relatively free from violence. "

Define "relatively". How many deaths does it take for the writer to decide that the protests are NOT relatively free from violence? Sure, the violence has occurred only on a few of the many days of protest. But it's violence, nonetheless. So it is no longer a peaceful rally. It would have been better for the writer to have said "... movement, but it has been marred by sporadic violence that has left 4 dead and scores injured."

8 deaths since the protests began now I believe. 3 on the protest side. 3 red shirts. 1 policeman. And the teenager of uncertain affiliation who got burned on the bus the day after the Ramkhamhaeng clalsh.

[icare999]

A nation does not make a better democracy by abandoning democracy.

Some tell that idiot Suthep this. But of course you know he would not understand it because he is an X democrat.

f democracy here means a one party taksin state where his government can legalise all his crimes by amnesty and openly say they wont accept decision of courts then ill welcome anything that gets rid of him.

Remember Hitler Mugabwie Saddam and rest were all elected so if someone had stopped them in time a lot of lives would have been saved and a lot of misery avoided

You would just let Taksin continue and then in a few years wring your hands in despair at seeing Thailand become a one party police Taksin state

Thats funny because Suthep is acting far far more right wing than Thaksin ever has... great choice these two...... not

if you say so must be true but id take my chances with someone not yet proved to be a dictator against a known criminal, his clan clones and cronies who have proved time and again they could not care less about law or anything ask ing as they and one man in particular can be one and only ruler of a one party state.

If/when Taksin goes then we will see who is right. Thankfully I believe Taksin's days are numbered as are his clones and cronies and if it takes a Suphet to achieve that so be it

[FangFerang]

"This should worry all those who care about the future of Thailand and its people."

I worry. I care about the beautiful Thai people, who are a unique people. Yes, Thai culture is hard to understand. Yes, Thai people seem simple to the simple-minded.

I do not understand you and I love you. The world is more interesting because there are Thai people. This has nothing to do with economics or money or sex. I SEE you. I am not a brillaint man and I still can see the dawn. You are beautiful.

There are good Thai people here reading what I write. I hope they read this, because many foreigners feel like I do.

Please make a note of it, my Thai hosts. I eat at your glorious table and thank you for that. Some of us are here because we love Thais. We did not escape here, we are not interested in taking your land or children for bad reasons. And we want to love you and always love you. We want Thai people to find Thai solutions to Thai problems, with Thai hands and hearts -- we do not want foreigners to interfere with that. We want you to...become.

Sincerely,

Me